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Jim Hargrove

NEW! Drop-dead visual proof that the rifle and scope in the “Backyard photos” (CE-133-A, B, C) is different from “Oswald’s” so-called rifle and scope (CE 139)

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Wish I had a prize for ya Chris...

1956 induction...

1961 arrest in New Orleans....   

seems like something is wrong until i show you a shot of Paul Newman at 5’10” with also a 12 inch head....

I think this adds proof to the existence of two men using the name LHO in day to day living and that people have hugely diff sized heads...

If that Ozzie marine photo is real.... seems so

1fe5631b0c4ed766fb0e186615a00a0e.jpg

59f2660f2179b_63-11-221963v1959Oswald.thumb.jpg.54814dc6efe612f762f160c339ab3242.jpg271966446_vaganovwithbothoswalds.jpg.985aea2eb783aef355a2026bf16174b4.jpg813255003_Oswald-Harveysquareshoulders-LEEdroppedshoulders-moreexamplesincollage.thumb.jpg.18272493737ada97d59209feb400311b.jpg

Ok so I don't think they could have such different sized heads, maybe wrong, will have to find a picture of Morley Safer. I guess different agencies position  the person farther from the wall and then raise the ruler on the wall to compensate. The New Orleans mug shot must have him closer to the wall and so his head is closer to realistic. The takaway is those photos are good for recording height but the size of the face is not consistent.
Edit, ya thinking about two Oswald's could never have two different size heads and get away with it, not 3 inches

Edited by Chris Bristow

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Lee Oswald and UFOs?

From Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong:

“Late December-Lee Oswald at the Lake Mead Base

After Lee Oswald checked in at the large jet base at El Taro (NOT Santa Ana), there are indications he was immediately sent to the Lake Mead Marine base north of Las Vegas, Nevada. Gerald Hansen was stationed at the base in December, 1958 and told the FBI about a Marine that he believed was Lee Harvey Oswald. Prior to taking leave on December 26, 1958 Hanson witnessed an unusual incident during work. One of the supply clerks called out the name "Harvey" to a Marine who had the name "Benjamin" stencilled on his utility shirt. Curious as to why the clerk called the man "Harvey" when the name "Benjamin" was stencilled on his shirt, Hansen asked the supply clerk why he called the man by a different name. The supply clerk refused to answer and told Hansen to direct his question to Sergeant R. (Ronald) G. Ackerman. Sergeant Ackerman told Hansen that even though the name stencilled on the Marine's uniform was "Benjamin," he was using the name "Harvey." Akerman further explained that even though the man was using the name "Harvey," his real name was "Oswald" and he was from Texas. Hansen subsequently verified that the Marine was using the surname of "Harvey" when he heard the company commander, Captain Vernon S. Munsell, address the man as "Corporal Harvey." In addition, Hansen later saw the man wearing a utility shirt with the surname "Harvey" stamped on it.114 Needless to say, Gerald Hansen was not interviewed by the Warren Commission, but now we understand that Lee Oswald may have been briefly assigned to one of the most closely guarded bases in the US after returning to El Toro on December 22. 58-31132133

NOTE: The Lake Mead Base was a storage and transfer area for nuclear weapons which were tested at the Nevada Test Site. It is now known as Nellis Air Force Base Area II and is one of three Air Force nuclear storage areas in the United States. The base is on the northern outskirts of Las vegas, is visible from cars travelling on Interstate 15, and from aircraft approaching the Las vegas airport.”

Isn’t Nellis Air Force Base Area 51?  What was Lee Oswald doing there?  Becoming part of the “UFO” plot to kill Kennedy?  Did CIA agent Oswald meet Aliens?  Was he influenced by Aliens?  Did Aliens program Oswald to kill Kennedy? 

Can one build a ludicrous, but humorous Oswald and the Aliens theory?  It could make as much sense as some of the things I have read.  I’ve often thought that some of the Elsie Dorman films frames show round, shiny alien devices rather than water bubbles or marks.  Hmmm?  I wander what Jim Marrs would have thought?

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2 hours ago, John Butler said:

Lee Oswald and UFOs?

From Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong:

“Late December-Lee Oswald at the Lake Mead Base

After Lee Oswald checked in at the large jet base at El Taro (NOT Santa Ana), there are indications he was immediately sent to the Lake Mead Marine base north of Las Vegas, Nevada. Gerald Hansen was stationed at the base in December, 1958 and told the FBI about a Marine that he believed was Lee Harvey Oswald. Prior to taking leave on December 26, 1958 Hanson witnessed an unusual incident during work. One of the supply clerks called out the name "Harvey" to a Marine who had the name "Benjamin" stencilled on his utility shirt. Curious as to why the clerk called the man "Harvey" when the name "Benjamin" was stencilled on his shirt, Hansen asked the supply clerk why he called the man by a different name. The supply clerk refused to answer and told Hansen to direct his question to Sergeant R. (Ronald) G. Ackerman. Sergeant Ackerman told Hansen that even though the name stencilled on the Marine's uniform was "Benjamin," he was using the name "Harvey." Akerman further explained that even though the man was using the name "Harvey," his real name was "Oswald" and he was from Texas. Hansen subsequently verified that the Marine was using the surname of "Harvey" when he heard the company commander, Captain Vernon S. Munsell, address the man as "Corporal Harvey." In addition, Hansen later saw the man wearing a utility shirt with the surname "Harvey" stamped on it.114 Needless to say, Gerald Hansen was not interviewed by the Warren Commission, but now we understand that Lee Oswald may have been briefly assigned to one of the most closely guarded bases in the US after returning to El Toro on December 22. 58-31132133

NOTE: The Lake Mead Base was a storage and transfer area for nuclear weapons which were tested at the Nevada Test Site. It is now known as Nellis Air Force Base Area II and is one of three Air Force nuclear storage areas in the United States. The base is on the northern outskirts of Las vegas, is visible from cars travelling on Interstate 15, and from aircraft approaching the Las vegas airport.”

Isn’t Nellis Air Force Base Area 51?  What was Lee Oswald doing there?  Becoming part of the “UFO” plot to kill Kennedy?  Did CIA agent Oswald meet Aliens?  Was he influenced by Aliens?  Did Aliens program Oswald to kill Kennedy? 

Can one build a ludicrous, but humorous Oswald and the Aliens theory?  It could make as much sense as some of the things I have read.  I’ve often thought that some of the Elsie Dorman films frames show round, shiny alien devices rather than water bubbles or marks.  Hmmm?  I wander what Jim Marrs would have thought?

It's also interesting that this same base is the very last place the second Oswald was seen, where a CIA plane - one that diverted over Nebraska, headed for Dallas, landed in the Trinity River bottoms, picked up an Oswald lookalike and a dark complected man (Morales?) 11/22 afternoon and flew to Nellis - landed.  Robert Vinson was the last guy who saw the second Oswald at Nellis who then disappeared into history after getting off the plane.

Thanks

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Thanks Rick,

I learn something new just about every day on the whole Oswald/Kennedy story. 

So, Lee Oswald is last seen at Nellis Air Base. 

I guess I am not going to get to gin up a story of Oswald and the UFOs.  I find the following very interesting and maybe helpful in understanding the Oswald story.

Area 51

military installation, Nevada, United States

Written By:

"In addition, Hansen later saw the man wearing a utility shirt with the surname "Harvey" stamped on it.114 Needless to say, Gerald Hansen was not interviewed by the Warren Commission, but now we understand that Lee Oswald may have been briefly assigned to one of the most closely guarded bases in the US after returning to El Toro on December 22. 58-31132133" from Harvey and Lee.

 

The U2 was tested at Area 51 in 1957 and prior.  Could it be that Oswald was assigned there to learn very secret things about the U2 and radar that he could use to bargain his way into the Soviet Union.  It is a thought.   

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Posted (edited)

One of my contentions is that Harvey and Lee may have been at different places at different times, but they eventually were in the same place and same time.  Japan, Philippines?, California, Russia, New Orleans, and Dallas.

It is very difficult to identify in photos who is Harvey and who is Lee.  I believe that Lee Oswald was removed from the film record except for just a few photos.  Lee was removed or merged with Harvey Oswald in composite photos.  Jack White did good work on trying to bring this to light.  Many of the Harvey Oswald photos are composite photos or ones where a face mask is used to say this character is Harvey rather than Lee.  With that said I won't stand very firm behind or defend strongly the relabeling of the following forum photo:

harvey-and-lee-id-comparison.jpg

I believe Harvey and Lee dressed alike in noticeable patterned shirts and wore their hair in the same style so that people would associate one with the other more readily. 

This kind of technique allowed both to walk around in the TSBD or other places and not be detected as frauds since they were fairly close in appearance.  If Lee Oswald was in the Sniper's Nest he would have had to pass many on the way there.  No witness has come forward and said there were two Oswalds there in the TSBD.  I believe the voices of the two were different.  There are several stories describing Oswald's character as gruff or shy mumbling something and then walking away rather than hold a conversation.  Many believe Harvey Oswald's voice patterns were not southern, but more in tune with a slight northern or foreign accent, definitely not a product of New Orleans or Dallas.

Can someone post a larger, clearer, photo of this, perhaps the original photo from which this is taken.  My ability to research and find things on the net is limited.  I never get what I am looking for just stuff in the general area.

That would be the photo with Oswald with his shirt off. 

Edited by John Butler

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Posted (edited)

Referring back to an earlier post, this post is not as cool as thinking and musing about Ozzie and the Little Grey Aliens at Area 51. But, that's just a fantasy. 

However, before there were rifles, there were U2s and radar.  Those earlier posts about Lee Oswald’s being at Nellis Air Force Base / Area 51 need to be explored anew in regards to just what experience Oswald had with U2s and radar that he could offer to the Soviets.

Many people have spoke of this idea as long as decades ago.  Here is something from Time Magazine discussing the idea in 1978 about Lee Oswald being a spy.  And, to me that asks the question whether he a spy for the Office of Naval Intellgence or the CIA?  Did he become a double agent or a triple agent? 

This article mentions his radar training at Biloxi, Miss. (according to Harvey and Lee and Harvey both trained there), and his duty at Atsugi, Japan, a secret CIA / U2 installation.  This article does not mention his later service at the Marine Base at El Toro, California.   

A Time Magazine article from 1978:

“Nation: Was Lee Oswald a Soviet Spy?

Monday, Feb. 27, 1978

A fascinating new portrait of Kennedy's assassin

Was Lee Harvey Oswald an informer who gave U.S. military secrets to the Soviet KGB? Was he involved in the famous downing of the U-2 spy plane? A tantalizing new book presents strong evidence that Oswald's connections with the KGB were closer and more devious than the public has been led to believe.

The book, Legend: The Secret World of Lee Harvey Oswald, is the result of 2½ years of work by Reader's Digest editors and researchers, who acquired many FBI and CIA documents under the Freedom of Information Act and, in addition, covered some 150,000 miles in 26 states and nine nations to interview Oswald's former associates. It was written by Edward Jay Epstein, a careful academic researcher whose 1966 book, Inquest, first revealed the flaws in the Warren Commission's investigation but did not conjure up any wild conspiracy theories.

Epstein still refuses to draw flat conclusions. Yet he weaves a skein of circumstantial evidence suggesting that Oswald learned key performance data on the CIA's U-2 plane while serving as a Marine radar controller at Atsugi, Japan, in 1957, and that he provided information to the Soviets either then or upon his defection to Russia in 1959. Oswald's information, the book suggests, enabled the Soviets to redesign their rocket-guidance systems so as to knock CIA Pilot Gary Powers out of the air over the Soviet Union on May 1,1960.

Oswald's Marine specialty, radar controller, required above-average intelligence, and he ranked seventh in his training class in Biloxi, Miss. From visual, radio and radar observation at Atsugi, one base from which the U-2 operated, Oswald could have learned much about its speed, rate of climb and altitude.”

Harvey and Lee mentioned Lee Oswald was assigned for a short period of time in December, 1958 to Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada.  This may have been for just a couple of days before Dec. 22, 1958 when he returned to the El Toro base.  Area 51 is part of the Nellis complex and Lee Oswald could have learned detailed information on the U2 there.  Perhaps things that the ordinary Marine radar operator would not know.  In light of the following in January of the next year,  Lee Oswald may have been prepped for this journey to Russia with bargaining chips about the U2 and more detailed information on early warning radar.

Lee Oswald at Vincent AFB in Yuma Arizona from Harvey and Lee

“January- Lee Oswald at Vincent AFB in Yuma, Arizona

On January 19, while Harvey remained in Santa Ana (Nelson Delgado was still on leave), Lee Oswald departed from the Marine Corps Air Station at El Toro aboard a government aircraft for Vincent Air Force Base in Yuma, Arizona. 5 The National Archives has two photographs of "Lee Oswald" that were taken during this trip. One photograph is of Oswald kneeling in front of a horse, wearing a jacket and cowboy hat. 59-01 On the reverse side of this photograph, apparently in Lee Oswald's handwriting, is a notation "Vincent AFB Yuma, Arizona."6 The other photograph is of Lee Oswald, wearing a white t-shirt, kneeling in front of a group of small trees. 59-02 After departing Yuma, Lee Oswald returned to the Marine Corps Air Station (the large jet base) at El Toro, CA. Harvey Oswald remained at Marine Corps Air Facility (MACS 9), 5 miles from El Toro.”

Yuma Air Force Station (1956-1963) - A Cold War Air Force Radar Station first established in 1956 near Yuma, Yuma County, Arizona. Named Yuma Air Force Station after the location. Initially assigned a Permanent ID of SM-162, later a Sage ID of Z-162. Abandoned in 1963. Also known as Vincent Air Force Base Radar Site

795px-MCAAS-Yuma-Vincent-Field-26-Sep-19

 

 

MCAAS Yuma-Vincent Field on 26 Sep 1959. By the Palm tree on the left, you can see the

 MPS-7 search radar (Left), and the MPS-14 height-finder radar (right).

History

Established on 2 Aug 1955 and became operational in 1956 on Vincent Air Force Base as Vincent Air Force Base Radar Site. Renamed Yuma Air Force Station after Vincent AFB was transferred to the U.S. Marine Corps on 1 Jan 1959. Manned by the 864th AC&W Squadron. The station initially had both a Ground-Control Intercept (GCI) and early warning mission. The early warning mission involved tracking and identifying all aircraft entering their airspace while the GCI mission involved guiding Air Force interceptors to any identified enemy aircraft. Controllers at the station vectored fighter aircraft at the correct course and speed to intercept enemy aircraft using voice commands via ground-to-air radio.

Initial equipment included the MPS-7 search radar and an MPS-14 height-finder radar.

Lee Oswald was a valuable member of the Marine Corps with a very high security clearance.  He would have to have had that to visit so many secret military bases such as the CIA / U2 base at Atsugi, Japan.  And, later at Nellis / Area 51 and Vincent Air Force Base, a Cold War early detection station.  All of these bases were probably unknown to the public in those days being very hush-hush and secret.

It might be interesting to detail which secret bases Lee Oswald was at for training and duty.  And, where he acquired his knowledge of U2s and radar.  One would think that after serving as he did he would have plenty of knowledge to trade with the Russians.  Particularly, if he was prepped as one could believe from the following:

  1. Lee Oswald was at the Radar School at Biloxi, Miss. from May 4 to June 19, 1957.

  2. Lee Oswald at the Marine Base at El Toro, CA from July 9 to August 21, 1957.  He was probably assigned to some sort of Replacement Station awaiting transfer overseas.  This would have allowed little time to pick up much about radar.

  3. Lee Oswald at Atsugi, Japan in September, 1957.  This was a highly classified CIA base, probably the largest in the area.  There are many blank areas during this period in which Lee Oswald could have received training.

  4. Oswald was in the Philippines and Taiwan setting up field radar stations.

  5. On November 19, 1958, after being assigned to the El Toro base, Lee Oswald took a 30-day leave and went to Ft. Worth, TX.  Most of that time is unaccounted for and he could have been doing anything government related in other places.

  6. Sometime in late December, 1958 Lee Oswald was at the Nellis / Area 51 base in Nevada, the testing facility for the U2 aircraft.  The date and time are uncertain, maybe for just a few days, and perhaps sometime directly after returning to the El Toro base.

  7. The following year in January, 1959 Lee Oswald goes to Vincent Air Force Base just coming under control of the Marine Corps.  This base was a Cold War early detection base equipped with advance radar equipment such as the MPS-7 search radar and an MPS-14 height-finder radar.

  8. There is the possibility that one of the Oswalds, possibly Lee who I assign as the one taking the pictures assigned to Lee Harvey Oswald, came back to the US through the Cold War early radar detection air base at Keflavik, Iceland.

  9. Directly after the assassination, Lee Oswald goes to Walter Air Force Base / Roswell Army Air Base at Roswell, New Mexico.  At the time of Oswald's visit this base was an important Strategic Air Command base.  It was the home of B 52 bombers and Atlas guided missiles.  It was probably a very secure area.   

This was posted on another thread about two Oswalds at the Texas Theater.  It is different from what Rick McTague posted about going to Nellis Air Base in Nevada and is probably better because of the Robert Vinson interview video:

Jim Hargrove   

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Let’s consider the title of this thread.  This is probably a long shot, but . . . .

Air Force vet Robert Vinson said he was on a nearly empty C-54 Cargo plane that left Andrews Air Force Base the afternoon of 11/22 when it was apparently diverted and landed on what he thought was a road under construction near the Trinity River south of Dallas.  He said a Jeep with three men (a driver, a man who might be Cuban, and a fellow who “looked an awful lot like Oswald") drove up and the two passengers got on.  Vinson claimed the plane took off and went to the Air Force Base in Roswell, New Mexico.  He added that the entire base was on lockdown until later that evening.  

Here’s part 2 of a YouTube interview with Vinson: CLICK HERE

And, from Rick McTague another trip to Nellis: "It's also interesting that this same base is the very last place the second Oswald was seen, where a CIA plane - one that diverted over Nebraska, headed for Dallas, landed in the Trinity River bottoms, picked up an Oswald lookalike and a dark complected man (Morales?) 11/22 afternoon and flew to Nellis - landed.  Robert Vinson was the last guy who saw the second Oswald at Nellis who then disappeared into history after getting off the plane."

This brief overview suggests that Lee Oswald did have access to U2 and radar systems and the possibility of more advanced information on the U2 and sophisticated radar systems from other bases.  This kind of information would be highly prized by the Soviets and they would do what was necessary to acquire it.  Lee Oswald seems to have had an affinity for top level secure and secret bases involved with the highest levels of security and National Defense. 

The stories of the Russians not wanting Oswald just don’t ring true.  This bait is exactly what American Intelligence planned for to get Lee Oswald into Russia.  The U2 incident was then a short time away.

Lee Oswald the non-Russian speaking, taller, more adventuresome of the two paved the way into Russia for the shorter, Russian speaking Harvey who later marries Marina, who thinks he is from one of the Baltic states.    

Edited by John Butler

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As I said in an earlier post, it is very difficult to separate Lee Oswald from Harvey Oswald for a variety of reasons.  First of these reasons is that Lee and Harvey had a close general resemblance.  This resemblance was close enough that they could be in the same environments and generally not recognized as two different people. 

This type of discussion concerning the identity of Harvey and Lee Oswald has been done by others before and is being repeated here in a different fashion to help me identify whose who.  I’m sure not everyone will agree with this interpretation.  We all see things differently. 

Most people looking at his photo of a young Oswald will say that this is Harvey Oswald the man killed at the Dallas Police station.

oswald-flight-training.jpg

But, a closer examination might change one’s mind.  Here is a photo of Lee, or is it Harvey when he was young and attending a Civil Air Patrol cadet training meeting.

oswald-closeup-flight-training-a.jpg

The man known as Harvey Oswald did not have any missing teeth, an incisor and canine, in the front part of the mouth.  The gap between teeth looks large enough for two teeth.  This version of Lee Harvey Oswald does have missing teeth. 

In the right-hand photo with Marina, Harvey clearly has an incisor and canine.  Their general appearance is much the same, but there exists enough differences that photo alteration was necessary.  A larger version of the Harvey and Marina photo offers a better view on Harvey’s mouth which shows no missing incisor or canine.  Since the incisor is smaller in relation to what it should be, we can say with some confidence this is not a dental replacement.

oswald-and-marina-3.jpg

This rather grisly photo identifies Harvey Oswald, the man shot at the Dallas Police station, and definitely not Lee Oswald.  And, this also clears the idea of a dental replacement.

Harvey-Oswald-teet-1981.jpg

This is another photo suggesting Lee Oswald was missing teeth.

oswald-in-class-missing-teeth.jpg

When you place a photo of Harvey Oswald next to Lee Oswald then you will see that close general appearance is not that close.  This is why photos were altered into composite photos or a face or head was superimposed in photos of Lee Oswald.  To be fair this is a comparison between a youth and an adult.

lee-or-harvey-differences.jpg

In the following montage the two left-hand photos might be Lee Oswald.  IMO, they resemble the teen age photo of Lee rather than the photo of Harvey at the bottom left or extreme right.

lee-oswald-comparison-montage.jpg

The photos I have judged as Lee Oswald are all enlargements of other photos where these figures are distant and not easily seen.  Perhaps, they were deemed unnecessary to change being difficult to view without enlargement.  Lee Oswald has vanished almost entirely from the photo record just as he got on a plane in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963 and flew to Walters Air Force Base / Rosewell Army Base in New Mexico and vanished from history.

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Guest Rich Pope
On 6/29/2019 at 4:47 PM, Chris Bristow said:

Joe, this issue was taken up by the HSCA. I think it was Jack White who originally pointed it out. The HSCA took test photographs with Oswald's camera and found it magnifies and stretches objects near the top of the frame. His head appears biggest in 133a where his head is located higher in the frame. You can find the test photos in the HSCA report and it looks like they are making a valid case. I am not saying they are right or wrong but they show compelling evidence that the large head is due to the distortion of the cheap Imperial Reflex camera.

I own one of those cheap Imperial Reflex Camera's and it is a plastic, piece of junk.  I wouldn't use pictures from it as evidence of anything.

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What do you make of this Bart?

284476341_NewsweekaboutBackyardpicturetouchups.thumb.jpg.ead73299f9848d81742085d5541f3e82.jpg

 

Seems to me you can still see the scope on the right Newsweek enlargement.. more importantly
in this version from LIFE they even straightened out the stock by removing the notch...

With only 1 negative and 3 poses....'nuf said

DJ

1043883418_LIFEretouchedversionof133-BBYP-Riflestockshowsnotchremoved-smaller.thumb.jpg.808fd55dee96ad6c51a42bcbcabb15f0.jpg

 

 

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2 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

I own one of those cheap Imperial Reflex Camera's and it is a plastic, piece of junk.  I wouldn't use pictures from it as evidence of anything.

Rich, Have you ever run film through it or have you measured the field of view through the viewfinder? Knowing the field of view would be another way to verify Marina's location. It is no big deal because the HSCA, Dartmouth and the WC all pretty much come to similar conclusions. Marina was about 11"4' away and at 22 south of west. But if you ever measure the width of the view at a given distance it would be of interest to me.
 As far as the reliability of the image vs distortions Oswald's camera has an advantage. The distortions of that very camera have been well documented. I think it was the WC that photographed a chart with a grey scale at the bottom and grid lines similar to the old famous indian chief image used to burn it video cameras in the 50's So we can make accurate predictions about the distortion at particular points in the image.
 Although the test with the dummy heads does show a stretching the way they did it about doubled the amount of distortion. The distortion is due to a keystone effect from tilting the camera. There is a misconception that it is just the top of the image that stretches but the tilt is the main factor. In 133a there is 4 degrees of camera tilt which moves Oswald's head up in the frame a bit. But the dummy test takes the head from mid frame and compares it with a head at the top of the screen. That is more like 8 degrees of tilt rather than 4 degrees. They stacked the deck on that test.

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13 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

Rich, Have you ever run film through it or have you measured the field of view through the viewfinder? Knowing the field of view would be another way to verify Marina's location. It is no big deal because the HSCA, Dartmouth and the WC all pretty much come to similar conclusions. Marina was about 11"4' away and at 22 south of west.

Chris,

I think the HSCA quietly determined that, despite her testimony, Marina didn't take the pictures because she didn't have the slightest idea how to use the camera.

HSCA: "I will show you those two photographs (133-A & 133-B) which are
marked JFK Exhibit 1 and JFK Exhibit 2, do you recognize those two
photographs?"
Marina: "I sure do. I have seen them many times."
HSCA: "What are they?"
Marina. "That is the pictures that I took."
HSCA: "Did you hold it [the Imperial Reflex camera] up to your eye and look
through the viewer to take the picture?"
Marina: "Yes."
HSCA: "When you took the first picture you held it up to your eye?" Marina:
"Yes."
HSCA: "This camera, do you recall whether to take pictures with this camera,
you would look down into the viewfinder or whether you would hold the
camera up to your eye and look straight ahead?"
Marina: "I just recall I think it is straight."
HSCA: "You would put the camera up by your eye."
Marina: "Yes."
 

Here is the view Marina couldn't remember:

931849355_ViewfinderimageforImperialrefl

 

Thanks to David Josephs for the image above.

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Guest Rich Pope
15 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

Rich, Have you ever run film through it or have you measured the field of view through the viewfinder? Knowing the field of view would be another way to verify Marina's location. It is no big deal because the HSCA, Dartmouth and the WC all pretty much come to similar conclusions. Marina was about 11"4' away and at 22 south of west. But if you ever measure the width of the view at a given distance it would be of interest to me.
 As far as the reliability of the image vs distortions Oswald's camera has an advantage. The distortions of that very camera have been well documented. I think it was the WC that photographed a chart with a grey scale at the bottom and grid lines similar to the old famous indian chief image used to burn it video cameras in the 50's So we can make accurate predictions about the distortion at particular points in the image.
 Although the test with the dummy heads does show a stretching the way they did it about doubled the amount of distortion. The distortion is due to a keystone effect from tilting the camera. There is a misconception that it is just the top of the image that stretches but the tilt is the main factor. In 133a there is 4 degrees of camera tilt which moves Oswald's head up in the frame a bit. But the dummy test takes the head from mid frame and compares it with a head at the top of the screen. That is more like 8 degrees of tilt rather than 4 degrees. They stacked the deck on that test.

Chris,

Thanks for your detailed response.  Also, thank you for all of your research.  

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