Why Officer Tippit Stopped his Killer

[Cory Santos]

David, why did LHO not go all the way to his boarding house then?

[David Von Pein]

50 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

David, why did LHO not go all the way to his boarding house then?

Your question makes no sense. He went right past (and well beyond) his boarding house in the taxicab.

 

Edited July 14, 2019 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

For another (somewhat) interesting Whaley addendum  ------->  

 

Edited July 14, 2019 by David Von Pein

[David Josephs]

9 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Whaley was somewhat imprecise as to where he unloaded his passenger. He marked what he thought was the intersection of Neches and Beckley on a map of Dallas with a large X. He said, "Yes, sir; that is right, because that is the 500 block of North Beckley." However, Neches and Beckley do not intersect. Neches is within one-half block of the rooming house at 1026 North Beckley where Oswald was living. The 500 block of North Beckley is five blocks south of the rooming house.

If you look at a map, Neches and Beckley do no intersect anywhere...  Neches, the entire street, is NORTH of the rooming house and begins west of Zang.

Elsbeth and Neches intersect though...  Whaley is asked to mark this exhibit with his route...

Mr. WHALEY. I am trying to find Beckley, the green light changed from red to green on Beckley, right here is an intersection; Zangs Boulevard goes on up, and Beckley turns off. 
Mr. BALL. Here is Neches right here. 
Mr. WHALEY. Let me see where Neches is, is that right? Yes, that is it.
This is the intersection right there. 
Mr. BALL. We put an "X" there. 
Mr. WHALEY. That is where he got off. 
Mr. BALL. That is where you dropped your passenger, is that right? 
Mr. WHALEY. That is--as far as I can see that is Neches. 
Mr. BALL. That is Neches, that is Beckley. 
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; that is right, because that is the 500 block of North Beckley.

 

That would ACTUALLY be the 1100 block of N Beckley, where Neches would cross

https://goo.gl/maps/NxB3W3yfJUFWQTdDA  

 

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that is not what I said, but that is the reason I didn't call one at the time and I asked him where he wanted to go. And he said, "500 North Beckley."
Well, I started up, I started to that address, and the police cars, the sirens was going, running crisscrossing everywhere, just a big uproar in that end of town and I said, "What the hell. I wonder what the hell is the uproar?" 
And he never said anything. So I figured he was one of these people that don't like to talk so I never said any more to him.
But when I got pretty close to 500 block at Neches and North Beckley which is the 500 block, he said, "This will do fine," and I pulled over to the curb right there. He gave me a dollar bill, the trip was 95 cents. He gave me a dollar bill and didn't say anything, just got out and closed the door and walked around the front of the cab over to the other side of the street. Of course, traffic was moving through there and I put it in gear and moved on, that is the last I saw of him. 
Mr. BALL. When you parked your car you parked on what street? 
Mr. WHALEY. I wasn't parked, I was pulled to the curb on Neches and North Beckley. 
Mr. BALL. Neches, corner of Neches and North Beckley? 
Mr. WHALEY. Which is the 500 block. 
Mr. BALL. What direction was your car? 
Mr. WHALEY. South.

Dave... show us the intersection of Beckley/Neches at the 500 block of Beckley please...

Mr. WHALEY. You name an intersection in the city of Dallas and I will tell you what is on all four corners. 
Mr. BALL. Did you stop and let your passenger out on this run on the north or south side of the intersection? 
Mr. WHALEY. On the north side, sir. 
Mr. BALL. North side? 
Mr. WHALEY. Yes. 
Mr. BALL. That would be-- 
Mr. WHALEY. Northwest corner. 
Mr. BALL. Northwest corner of Neches and Beckley? 
Mr. WHALEY. Northwest corner of Neches and Beckley.

 

 

 

[Paul Jolliffe]

21 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Jim,

You might be thinking of this essay:

http://neelyst.blogspot.com/

I'm sorry. I don't know who the author is.

I have about 12 pages of Neely St. notes and discrepancies I'v e found over the years if you're interested. For example:

http://www.aarclibra...Vol17_0054a.htm

Marina stated that they moved (From Elsbeth to Neely) by pushing their belongings around the corner in a baby stroller but Mr. George B. Gray stated they were moved in by a woman driving a white station wagon. If this was Ruth Paine, then why would Marina have to send her directions in a letter?

 

From Joachim Joesten's book p. 47:

 

Steve Thomas

Steve,

That bit from Mrs. Marguerite Oswald is fascinating and corroborates what I have long suspected: Marina lived there with someone else! Marina was seen with someone at the Irving Furniture Mart in the first week of November (on a weekday, while our LHO was at work.) There are a number of "Oswald", Marina and baby sightings in the two months before the assassination that don't fit because our "Oswald" could not have been there. 

But Marina . . .

BTW, from which Joachim Joesten book was that excerpt from?

Also, the essay "The Georges of Neely Street" was written by Gayle Nix Jackson, granddaughter of Orville.

https://gaylenixjackson.com/jfk-assassination/3107/

Edited July 14, 2019 by Paul Jolliffe

[Steve Thomas]

25 minutes ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Steve,

BTW, from which Joachim Joesten book was that excerpt from?

Also, the essay "The Georges of Neely Street" was written by Gayle Nix Jackson, granddaughter of Orville.

https://gaylenixjackson.com/jfk-assassination/3107/

Paul,

 

It's from his book, "Marina Oswald".

You can find an online copy here:

https://archive.org/details/MarinaOswaldByJoachimJoesten1967/page/n45

 

Gayle may have written "an" essay about the George's of Neely, but I think that was in 2014.

The essay I referenced was written in 2003.

 

Steve Thomas

[Cory Santos]

8 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Your question makes no sense. He went right past (and well beyond) his boarding house in the taxicab.

 

Exactly.  Why?  Guilty people want a quick get away.  Why do you suppose he did that?  Why did he not simply go only to the boarding house?  I think you misunderstood the point of my original question.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Cory Santos

[James DiEugenio]

I hope no one misses the significance of what David Josephs is saying, it appears to me that, no matter how the WC twisted it, the evidence says it was five blocks from the rooming house.

Therefore, as Cory is trying to say, even if he was trying to disguise where he lived, why would it be that far?

Understand, if we buy the WR--which few people do--Oswald is trying to escape the clutches of the police.  So why would he slow down that "escape" by doubling backwards that far?

And let me add something else:  after reading up on Neely, IMO there are some legitimate questions about the location. I am not saying that Oswald never lived there, but I am saying that there seems to me to be some odd circumstances about it.  

Which brings up a general point: almost everywhere you look in this case, the minute you press any issue the questions begin to manifest themselves until they grow larger and larger.  And it gets to the point that  the questions outweigh the answers.

Edited July 14, 2019 by James DiEugenio

[Cory Santos]

True Jim.  If WC is correct, LHO has committed the crime of the century, left the weapon at the crime scene, somehow luckily escaped the book depository despite police confrontation at gun point-allegedly- and now is making a fast get away, probably to Mexico or Cuba?  Alternatively, he was preparing for a showdown with the police which would have made more sense back up on the sixth floor.  So, if he was in a hurry-remember he got off a bus as it was not moving which confirms he was in some sort of a hurry (or he was spooked by something or someone he saw)- why did his actions not seem to show he was in a hurry to get to the boarding house?  The drop off makes no sense.   

David why did LHO not get dropped off right at the boarding house? If he did it seconds count to get away.

[Denny Zartman]

To believe the WC's version of events, it seems one would have to believe Oswald had no getaway plan.

If hadn't been seen sneaking into the movie theater, I wonder, would have stayed for the next feature? He seemed to be in no rush to get to anywhere particular.

In LHO we have a man who, according to the official story, 1. Made a clean getaway at the scene of the crime, 2. Boarded and exited two wheeled vehicles. 3. Could have stolen Tippit's police car had Oswald been so inclined. Again if he couldn't drive, he could have forced a bystander to drive for him. Or even better, he could have thought about all this stuff before the assassination. His only getaway plan was... to go to the movies? It's so hard to believe that Oswald had enough foresight to order a rifle, wait for the delivery, and even have his picture taken with it, but during all that time he never seem to give any thought about how he was going to escape? If he thought he would have had to shoot his way out of the TSBD (in my opinion a possibility any potential assassin would have to consider), then why didn't he take his handgun to work with him as well? Why not steal a car at gunpoint after the assassination, force someone to drive him to the bus station or the airport or the border? According to the official version presented in the WC, Oswald was quite adept at crossing the border and getting to other countries quickly and effectively. But this guy who mail ordered a rifle didn't give any thought to how he was going to get away?

One of the earliest things I can remember thinking about the JFK assassination was the first time I looked at a map of Oswald's escape route. I thought "Those aren't the movements of a guy trying to escape. That's the route of a guy in a panic whose ride had ditched him." He gets on the bus going back the direction he came, he has to double back from where the cab dropped him off to his residence, and then he's been moving generally southeast when he allegedly encounters and kills Tippit. He changes direction for a third time and heads northwest to the Texas Theater. That's at least three changes in direction from a relatively intelligent and organized individual who has just made a clean getaway after allegedly committing the crime of the century.

And I have to stress this again, because after all this time it still sounds unbelievable to me: Oswald's very best getaway plan was to go to the movies?

[David Von Pein]

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

almost everywhere you look in this case, the minute you press any issue the questions begin to manifest themselves until they grow larger and larger.  And it gets to the point that the questions outweigh the answers.

That type of micro-analyzing can be done with any murder case, Jim. And when it's JFK conspiracy theorists who are doing the "micro-analyzing" and searching for things that just don't seem "right", you can bet the ranch that those CTers WILL find something that they consider to be "fishy". They always do. Just ask any 9/11 Truther.

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Denny Zartman said:

Oswald's very best getaway plan was to go to the movies?

I don't think Oswald had any kind of pre-arranged "getaway plan" at all. He wasn't PLANNING to duck into the movie theater when he shot JFK. The killing of Tippit in Oak Cliff made it necessary for him to get off the Oak Cliff streets quickly. And what better place than a dark theater (which was right nearby)? Makes perfect sense to me (from Oswald's flying-by-the-seat-of-his-pants POV on 11/22).

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

12 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Dave... show us the intersection of Beckley/Neches at the 500 block of Beckley please... 

It doesn't exist. (See map below.) Whaley simply made a mistake. He meant to say NEELY instead of NECHES.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Neches Street; Dallas, Texas 75208

And please remember the "95 cent" cab ride. That gets Oswald to NEELY, not to the "500 block" of Beckley.

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

2 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

David, why did LHO not get dropped off right at the boarding house?

We would need to dig up Lee Oswald and ask him directly---because he's the only one who can answer that now-unanswerable question. But I've given my opinion on this subject in the past, such as this answer I gave to Bill Kelly when he asked me that same question at this forum in 2013:

"As to why Oswald took the cab three blocks beyond his roominghouse (it wasn't five blocks beyond, because Oswald was dropped off at the corner of Beckley & Neely, which is the 700 block of Beckley), I think the answer to that is two-fold:

He didn't want cab driver Whaley to be able to tell anybody later exactly where he lived. And, probably of more critical importance to Oswald at the time, he wanted to check the area of his roominghouse for police activity. Oswald would have had no way of knowing how quickly the police would be on his trail, and he certainly didn't want to walk right into the arms of a waiting policeman on his Beckley doorstep.

Yes, it's true that Oswald wouldn't have to have driven three whole blocks beyond his room in order to see if some police were at 1026 N. Beckley, but he might have been thinking that anybody who wanted to surprise the Presidential assassin probably wouldn't be advertising himself by parking his marked police car right in front of 1026 Beckley. Therefore, he wanted to "case" the neighborhood a few blocks away from his room. (IMO, that's what he did.)

I'll once again reverse the tables regarding this question:

If Lee Oswald didn't have anything to hide and wasn't worried about being picked up by the authorities on 11/22/63, then why indeed did he tell William Whaley to drive a few blocks beyond his roominghouse that day?

In the final analysis, doesn't this type of strange behavior on the part of Lee Harvey Oswald on the day the President was shot from Oswald's own workplace lead much more toward Oswald's GUILT than it does his INNOCENCE?" -- DVP; September 2013

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/09/questions-and-answers.html

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by David Von Pein

[Jim Hargrove]

On 7/12/2019 at 8:46 PM, David Von Pein said:

When Oswald (no quotation marks needed) got into William Whaley's cab....

WRONG, David, as you well know.  There is every reason on earth to put "Oswald" in quotes.  Are you trying yet again to fool the newbies with your bs?

Everything else Mr. Von Pein says is also wrong!  And we all know it!

For starters, see HarveyandLee.net

A question for the honest members of this forum:  Should we bother debating Mr. Von Pein?