Two Oswalds in the Texas Theater

[Jim Hargrove]

6 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

Wait now Ruby was at the theater? Lol.  I would not give that witness any credibility.

It’s certainly your right to mock any of the witnesses you chose, but at the same time how about at least giving a Bronx Cheer to the authorities who didn’t even bother to keep a list of theater patrons who witnessed the arrest of “Lee Harvey Oswald.”  These were critical witnesses!

These witnesses could have told us when they thought “Oswald” appeared inside the theater (which is hotly debated now), how he behaved inside, whether he resisted arrest and/or tried to shoot a cop, and whether anyone else was arrested or otherwise escorted out of the theater by police, among other issues.  EVERY ONE OF THESE WITNESSES SHOULD HAVE BEEN QUESTIONED IN DETAIL!  But no one bothered even to keep a list of their names!

Is it unreasonable to leap to the conclusion that the authorities were hiding something?

Why do private researchers such as Jim Marrs, John Armstrong, and James Douglass have to try to track these people down?  Only a few have been located, among them Jack Davis.  Below is a note Mr. Davis sent to John A. making a minor correction about where he was seated when he saw “Oswald” moving around in such an odd manor in the theater.  He also said he saw “Oswald” get up and walk back into the lobby right around the time Burroughs said he sold him popcorn (which just happens to be the alleged time the WC wants us to believe Tippit was killed).

These witnesses could not be allowed to testify!

[Paul Jolliffe]

On 7/24/2019 at 7:54 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

John,

You’ve really put your finger on several key issues John A. and I have been discussing for years.  On the Murder of J.D. Tippit page on our website, John wrote:

According to researcher Leo Sauvage (who interviewed Dallas Assistant District Attorney Jim Bowie), "there were over a half-dozen anonymous phone calls made to the Dallas Police advising that a suspicious man had gone into the Texas Theater." I'll bet one of these phone calls was made by Tommy Rowe, a very close friend of Jack Ruby's. 

For several reasons, I doubt it was Westbrook or Croy who made any of the calls, but your point remains.  My belief is that this was an elaborately conceived and executed plot, both to kill JFK and to set up “Oswald” as the patsy, which included murdering Tippit.  My bet is there were plans and backup plans.

The planned murder of Tippit had several goals.  First was to provide an excuse to link the Oswald/Hidell wallet allegedly found at 10th and Patton (but probably provided by Tippit’s killer to Westbrook) to Classic Oswald®.   The second was to link the bullet’s that killed Tippit to “Oswald’s” pistol, which was probably switched when it stayed by Westbrook in DPD headquarters for more than an hour.  And lastly, the plan was to lead Dallas cops, angered by the killing of Tippit, to the Texas Theater.  If the Sauvage/Bowie account is correct about the multiple calls, then this was just done as a complement to it, sort of proving the point.

What the plotters could never get quite right (because they were juggling two Oswalds) was the minute-by-minute timing.  That’s why the police radio timestamps had to be altered, why Tippit had to be shot at 10th and Patton at the exact same time he was pronounced dead at Methodist Hospital, and why the identifications of the theater patrons had to disappear.  

Jim, 

As to the matter of those mysterious multiple calls to the DPD from the Texas Theater from at least one anonymous source, there is highly significant corroboration on tape from the afternoon of 11/22/63! Listen to the audio portion of Ron Reiland's short film here as he states live on the air that the DPD officers, filmed at the Tippit scene, race to their squad cars in response to the call that a suspicious man, armed with a shotgun, was seen entering the Texas Theater. ("Everybody broke and ran!")

I need not remind anyone here that the initial suspect description in the Kennedy shooting was of a man, about 30, armed with a rifle, maybe a .30/30 or a Winchester. That some anonymous caller - NOT JULIA POSTAL - told  the DPD about the suspect walking into the Texas Theater with a shotgun (!!!!!!) is not a coincidence. The DPD rushed to the Texas Theater NOT IN RESPONSE TO MOUSY JULIA POSTAL'S CALL TO THEM (only at the repeated urging of the phony Johnny Brewer), but as the result of the repeated calls from someone else inside the theater!

As we know, no one, NO ONE, walked into the Texas Theater with a shotgun or a rifle before the arrival of the DPD.

That anonymous caller was a conspirator, setting up the patsy.

No wonder the dispatch tapes of the calls to the DPD from the Texas Theater had to disappear - they contained an audio record of a conspirator's voice!

The entire four minute Ron Reiland footage is well worth watching, but the most relevant part begins at the 1:10 mark - be sure to turn on your speakers!

 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Paul Jolliffe

[Cory Santos]

3 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

It’s certainly your right to mock any of the witnesses you chose, but at the same time how about at least giving a Bronx Cheer to the authorities who didn’t even bother to keep a list of theater patrons who witnessed the arrest of “Lee Harvey Oswald.”  These were critical witnesses!

These witnesses could have told us when they thought “Oswald” appeared inside the theater (which is hotly debated now), how he behaved inside, whether he resisted arrest and/or tried to shoot a cop, and whether anyone else was arrested or otherwise escorted out of the theater by police, among other issues.  EVERY ONE OF THESE WITNESSES SHOULD HAVE BEEN QUESTIONED IN DETAIL!  But no one bothered even to keep a list of their names!

Is it unreasonable to leap to the conclusion that the authorities were hiding something?

Why do private researchers such as Jim Marrs, John Armstrong, and James Douglass have to try to track these people down?  Only a few have been located, among them Jack Davis.  Below is a note Mr. Davis sent to John A. making a minor correction about where he was seated when he saw “Oswald” moving around in such an odd manor in the theater.  He also said he saw “Oswald” get up and walk back into the lobby right around the time Burroughs said he sold him popcorn (which just happens to be the alleged time the WC wants us to believe Tippit was killed).

These witnesses could not be allowed to testify!

Jim, I agree the list of movie theater patrons was highly important.  It is too bad Mark Lane or someone else did not get a list going  in the 60's.  The list of licenses  of all cars parked in the parking lot by the TSBD also should exist.   I agree it is very strange this evidence did not find its way into the Warren Omission.  It further proves the lack of credibility the report has.  But Burroughs clearly added to his story , Postal admits he was early on playing with his version of what he saw, and now it is suggested Ruby and or Paine were at the theater.  If Ruby allegedly knew Ruby, and I think he did, don't you think when he was walking around he would have seen him?  He had an alibi. No one else reported seeing him there.  Seth Kantor credibly places him at Parkland.  So if someone tries to place him at the theater I have to question the credibility of that witness.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Cory Santos

[Ron Bulman]

7 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

It’s certainly your right to mock any of the witnesses you chose, but at the same time how about at least giving a Bronx Cheer to the authorities who didn’t even bother to keep a list of theater patrons who witnessed the arrest of “Lee Harvey Oswald.”  These were critical witnesses!

These witnesses could have told us when they thought “Oswald” appeared inside the theater (which is hotly debated now), how he behaved inside, whether he resisted arrest and/or tried to shoot a cop, and whether anyone else was arrested or otherwise escorted out of the theater by police, among other issues.  EVERY ONE OF THESE WITNESSES SHOULD HAVE BEEN QUESTIONED IN DETAIL!  But no one bothered even to keep a list of their names!

Is it unreasonable to leap to the conclusion that the authorities were hiding something?

Why do private researchers such as Jim Marrs, John Armstrong, and James Douglass have to try to track these people down?  Only a few have been located, among them Jack Davis.  Below is a note Mr. Davis sent to John A. making a minor correction about where he was seated when he saw “Oswald” moving around in such an odd manor in the theater.  He also said he saw “Oswald” get up and walk back into the lobby right around the time Burroughs said he sold him popcorn (which just happens to be the alleged time the WC wants us to believe Tippit was killed).

These witnesses could not be allowed to testify!

Jim H., thanks for posting this diagram in particular.  It possibly clears up something I'd been wondering about.  I.E., how was Oswald one/ early Oswald 1:00-1:07 able to get up to the balcony, then back down to the floor to sit by Davis to first be noticed recognizably by Burroughs buying popcorn at 1:15.  I'd looked on line for pictures of the inside of the theater with limited random success.  I couldn't find anything showing where the concession stand was, or how it was blocked off from the front entrance by a "partition".

From the diagram and pictures I did find it now seems logical.  There were two (double) entry doors to the theater lobby at the front, with round glass windows in them.  Then there were three doors with square windows from it into the auditorium entry area where the concession stand was.  I.E., Ozzie 1 went up the same stairs shown in the diagram labeled "police to balcony, without being seen by Burroughs.

http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/2893/photos/234022

Further confusing to me initially from pictures is that the stairs in the front lobby lead to a mezzanine level from whence more stairs lead to the actual balcony.

 http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/2893/photos/234023

http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/2893/photos/234021

The diagram shows stairs in the back corner coming down into the auditorium entry area.

So, I'm thinking, Ozzie 1 was probably under the impression he was to meet a contact in the balcony.  Thus the first place he went.  No one or no one that could be his contact there.  So he went back to the mezzanine then down the stairs in the corner and into the main auditorium to sit down by Jack Davis, then two more people close by.  Still no contact, then out to the concession stand to look around for whoever might be his contact.  The first time Burroughs saw him face to face.

Might this account for whoever called the DPD reporting the suspect was in the balcony?  Because they knew that's where he was supposed to go?

 

It's all been re modeled since the fire in 1995.

https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/texas-theatre-dallas?start=0

 

[David Von Pein]

On 7/22/2019 at 11:04 PM, Cory Santos said:

Can DVP explain the arrest in the balcony?  Was it simply a mistake? 

From a 2014 discussion....

MARTIN WEIDMANN SAID:

What made several police officers say in their reports that Oswald was arrested on the balcony of the TT?

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

A very minor mistake really. Not important. He was arrested IN the theater. Just not "in the balcony". But we know the initial DPD radio call said they thought the suspect was "hiding in the balcony". This early erroneous speculation could have been repeated by some of the officers. Some errors get repeated from one person to the next.

 

[Jim Hargrove]

23 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Jim, 

As to the matter of those mysterious multiple calls to the DPD from the Texas Theater from at least one anonymous source, there is highly significant corroboration on tape from the afternoon of 11/22/63! Listen to the audio portion of Ron Reiland's short film here as he states live on the air that the DPD officers, filmed at the Tippit scene, race to their squad cars in response to the call that a suspicious man, armed with a shotgun, was seen entering the Texas Theater. ("Everybody broke and ran!")

I need not remind anyone here that the initial suspect description in the Kennedy shooting was of a man, about 30, armed with a rifle, maybe a .30/30 or a Winchester. That some anonymous caller - NOT JULIA POSTAL - told  the DPD about the suspect walking into the Texas Theater with a shotgun (!!!!!!) is not a coincidence. The DPD rushed to the Texas Theater NOT IN RESPONSE TO MOUSY JULIA POSTAL'S CALL TO THEM (only at the repeated urging of the phony Johnny Brewer), but as the result of the repeated calls from someone else inside the theater!

As we know, no one, NO ONE, walked into the Texas Theater with a shotgun or a rifle before the arrival of the DPD.

That anonymous caller was a conspirator, setting up the patsy.

No wonder the dispatch tapes of the calls to the DPD from the Texas Theater had to disappear - they contained an audio record of a conspirator's voice!

The entire four minute Ron Reiland footage is well worth watching, but the most relevant part begins at the 1:10 mark - be sure to turn on your speakers!

 

Megathanks for this, Paul.

Just to make sure no one will miss this, on live WFAA television Ron Reiland said, "About this time there was another report came in that there was a man who had walked into the Texas Theater further down the block with a shotgun over his arm...."

[Jim Hargrove]

21 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

Jim, I agree the list of movie theater patrons was highly important.  It is too bad Mark Lane or someone else did not get a list going  in the 60's.  The list of licenses  of all cars parked in the parking lot by the TSBD also should exist.   I agree it is very strange this evidence did not find its way into the Warren Omission.  It further proves the lack of credibility the report has.  But Burroughs clearly added to his story , Postal admits he was early on playing with his version of what he saw, and now it is suggested Ruby and or Paine were at the theater.  If Ruby allegedly knew Ruby, and I think he did, don't you think when he was walking around he would have seen him?  He had an alibi. No one else reported seeing him there.  Seth Kantor credibly places him at Parkland.  So if someone tries to place him at the theater I have to question the credibility of that witness.

Cory,

Perhaps, but it all depends on exactly when Ruby was at Parkland.  The hospital is only about a ten minute or so drive from the Texas Theater, so depending on the specifics, Ruby could easily have been at both places. 

At first thought this may seem like a preposterous coincidence, but it turns out that Ruby was far more intimately involved in the plot than we were led to believe.  He was a friend of Hardy’s Shoe Store employee Tommy Rowe, who appears to have been involved in the plot to frame Classic Oswald® and get police to the theater.

The fact that only one witness claimed to see Ruby at the theater is yet another reason to have questioned everyone there.  

[Jim Hargrove]

To Ron B--Thanks very much to those links to historic shots of the Texas Theater.  I’d never seen several of them before.  Very helpful.

[James DiEugenio]

Just for the record, on the 23rd, the DPD was  still writing reports saying Oswald was arrested in the balcony. (Harvey and Lee, p. 871)

[David Von Pein]

5 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Just for the record, on the 23rd, the DPD was still writing reports saying Oswald was arrested in the balcony. (Harvey and Lee, p. 871)

And for several hours on Nov. 22nd, the media was still giving the public the erroneous idea that Officer Tippit had been killed in a gun battle right there inside the Texas Theater.

So there was quite a bit of bad information being put out (unintentionally) on television and radio in those early hours after the assassination (as I chronicle in the 27-minute video below). Such things always happen in a Mega News Event like this one.

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by David Von Pein

[Denis Morissette]

On 7/23/2019 at 9:18 PM, John Kozlowski said:

 

Vic Robertson was a WFAA Radio reporter at the Texas Theater before and during the capture of Oswald. Read the last paragraph of what he told the SS a few days after the events. 

https://postimg.cc/ykXMQtMy

[Rick McTague]

On 7/25/2019 at 8:24 AM, Paul Jolliffe said:

The entire four minute Ron Reiland footage is well worth watching, but the most relevant part begins at the 1:10 mark - be sure to turn on your speakers!

 

At 1:23, the narrator says that the gun the officer is holding (a revolver) was the gun used to murder Tippitt.  He's holding the gun and the throw-down wallet.  This is the first I've heard of a gun being found at the Tippit murder scene.  What became of this gun?  How does that square with the non-functioning revolver found on LHO in the Texas Theater?  Was this first gun entered into evidence, and what became of it?  It boggles the mind that the shooter would discard 4 out of 6 rounds in the cylinder (something you have to really try to do) and then leave the partially empty murder weapon itself with prints, etc. all over it in the same location - along with the wallet.  If this wasn't a setup for framing LHO I don't know what else it could be!!

Thanks

[David Von Pein]

22 minutes ago, Rick McTague said:

At 1:23, the narrator says that the gun the officer is holding (a revolver) was the gun used to murder Tippit.

That was one of several mistakes made by Ron Reiland when he narrated his news film on WFAA-TV on 11/22/63. The pistol being shown is J.D. Tippit's own service revolver, not the Tippit murder weapon.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/05/jfk-assassination-media-errors.html

Edited July 26, 2019 by David Von Pein

[Stephanie Goldberg]

There's one report done on 11/23/63, although I do not understand the THROUGH Lt Jack Revill part of the heading.

[Ron Bulman]

3 hours ago, Rick McTague said:

At 1:23, the narrator says that the gun the officer is holding (a revolver) was the gun used to murder Tippitt.  He's holding the gun and the throw-down wallet.  This is the first I've heard of a gun being found at the Tippit murder scene.  What became of this gun?  How does that square with the non-functioning revolver found on LHO in the Texas Theater?  Was this first gun entered into evidence, and what became of it?  It boggles the mind that the shooter would discard 4 out of 6 rounds in the cylinder (something you have to really try to do) and then leave the partially empty murder weapon itself with prints, etc. all over it in the same location - along with the wallet.  If this wasn't a setup for framing LHO I don't know what else it could be!!

Thanks

You bring up an interesting point Rick.  About the non functioning revolver found on LHO in the TT.  I've read Mc Donald said it dented the primer on a faulty bullet(?).  Then the FBI said none of the unfired bullets in the gun shows such a mark.  Then supposedly the FBI said the gun had a bent firing pin, which wouldn't work at all, thus unable to dent the primer.  Last, there was a story some were about Mc'Donald or another officer involved in the arrest had the flesh between their thumb and forefinger mashed when caught between the firing pin and the bullet when the trigger was pulled and the hammer came down during the struggle.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Ron Bulman