The Motorcade Puzzle

[Pat Speer]

Mark Tyler has pieced together the photographic evidence in an attempt to depict what the motorcade looked like from above. At first glance, his depiction is quite credible, but he is looking for useful feedback that will help him fine-tune what he has so far. Here is a link to his work. https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html

[John Butler]

Motorcade 63 might be better understood if the identify of the actors were made clearer.  If actors 1-8 are the first 8 vehicles in the motorcade then who are they?  1, 2, and 3 suggest the Advance Motorcycles.  If so, this omits the Advance Car and the Pilot Car.  The Advance Car is not a problem. 

According to the AMIPA film the Advance Car drops out of the motorcade by turning north on Record St. or the one just prior (too lazy to look this up) and the second car, the Pilot Car continues on to Houston and Elm.

It is not clear where the 5 Lead Motorcycles are and the Lead Car.  I am assuming the Lead Car is number 9.  The Lead Motorcycles turn onto Houston Street close together in two waves, first 3 motorbikes and then directly behind two more.

The AMIPA shows what happens on Houston Street from a position I believe is Record Street.  Hughes, Muchmore, Skaggs, Altgens, Bell, Willis, Bothun, Nix, and others show what happen on the turn from Main on to Houston then to Elm and some show the turn onto Elm.

Some of this might clear up if the actors are identified somewhere accessible.

Edited August 6, 2019 by John Butler

[Pat Speer]

Mark has numbered the motorcade participants and photographers, and lists them by name at the end of the video. My first suggestion to him was to have the name of the photographers pop up in a box as their photographs are used. This would make it easier for others to check his work. 

[Jim Hargrove]

Interesting work from Mark Tyler.  Thanks!

Having studied this case for more than two decades from the perspective of "Lee Harvey Oswald,"  I still could not identify the majority of the motorcade vehicles, participants and photographers depicted in Mark's work.  Making a numerical key more available during the video presentation would be invaluable.

[Ron Bulman]

Maybe Chris Davidson or DJ could offer a worthy opinion.  Maybe they feel it's not worth their time.

[Chris Scally]

Nice work, Mark Tyler - good to see someone trying to put the entire event together like this.

 

[Greg Wagner]

Although the extant video record does not contain a clear depiction of the turn onto Elm, several witnesses stated that Greer took the turn wide and almost headed down the service road in front of the TSBD and had to correct at the last second by making a very sharp left.

I agree with Jim's point above... maybe put the key at the beginning of the video or perhaps make a few critical vehicle identifications visible throughout. 

Very cool animation, Mark. Nice job!

Edited August 7, 2019 by Greg Wagner

[Mark Tyler]

Thank you all for taking the time to check my work, and making some useful suggestions.  I added an actor key to the right hand side so viewers can see who each of the actors is, and how fast they are travelling:

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html

The web page also has a list of all the actor names and numbers, along with a list of photos and events that appear in the video.

I have also published a handbook which goes into more detail so people can understand what I have created, and why it is a useful tool to debunk or support the various theories in this case.  The handbook is just a PDF file so it can be viewed easily in the Chrome or Firefox browsers.  Firefox is especially nice because you see the contents on the left hand side so you can move around the document very quickly (e.g. jumping to the index or appendices).

I have mentioned the Limo turning wide in section 8.1, but I couldn't prove anything either way.  Is there testimony from anyone other than Roy Truly?

[John Butler]

Mark,

I would like to make a few suggestions to you. 

1.  First, a technical issue or two.  Place the time clock just directly above where it is at and this would put it on Main Street.  Keep the motorcade progress bar active and viewable all the time.  This would separate the two and help stop the simulation for better viewing as a stopped frame.  I know the location of the various photographers, but I would think it would help to briefly show the name of the photographer in the lighted area shown.

2.  You need to show the Pilot Car.  You don't show this vehicle ahead of the Advance Motorcycles.  It is not necessary to show the Advance Car this turned from Main St. onto Market St. and left the motorcade.  See AMIPA film.

3.  You mix up the 3 Advance Motorcycles and the 5 Lead Motorcycles.  The 3 Advance Motorcycles do not have two Lead Motorcycles trailing directly behind them.  There is considerable distance between the two units.  If you analyze the time of the Zapruder Gap you will understand this.

4.  You don't show Glen McBride stopping to allow Mary Moorman to take a photo of him.  He gets separated from the others briefly. 

5.  I would have to check on this, but I believe that not all of the Lead and Advance motorbikes left Dealey Plaza.

6.  The wide turn onto Elm St. by the P. Limo was witnessed by many as is generally accepted as having happened.

7.  You don't show part of the motorcade stopping for a brief time.  Mrs. Earle Cabell and Dave Wiegman indicate the motorcade stopped as Mrs. Cabell's vehicle turned into the intersection.  Mrs. Cabell and the car following her were released, but the Camera Cars were stopped for a longer period of time.

8.  The Camera Cars stop briefly to pick up Dave Weigman.  Other forum members estimate there is 29 seconds difference between the stop and movement of Mrs. Cabell's vehicle and the starting of the Camera Cars off Houston Street unto Ellm.

Hope this helps.

 

[Robert Burrows]

At the beginning of the Zapruder film, three motorcycles are seen turning onto Elm Street, two on the left side of the frame, one on the right. The motorcycle on the far left appears to go straight down the dead end street that runs in front of the Texas School Book Depository, while the other two proceed down Elm Street. I've never seen this discussed and, as far as I can see, it is not reflected in the ariel reconstruction. 

[Chris Davidson]

9 hours ago, Mark Tyler said:

Thank you all for taking the time to check my work, and making some useful suggestions. 

Mark,

The mayors car apparently would have been just out of view in Altgens 6.

Somewhere between the green arrows. imo

Altgens z255- z180 = 75/18.3 = 4.09 sec.

The distance traveled from the mayors car front end(you can draw a LOS from Z's pedestal touching the circular wall edge and on through Houston & Elm St) that we see in z180 to Wiegman's beginning is approx 57ft (65ft - 1/2 mayors car length=(8ft).

57/4.09sec = 13.93ft per sec = 9.48mph.

If you plot JFK within the limo in Towner (using 18.3fps as a true rate) over the approx same span as the mayors car from z180-z255, the average speed is 8.82mph.

This would indicate the motorcade increased (minimally) the speed through the Elm St turn vs the limo.

 

[John Butler]

5 hours ago, Robert Burrows said:

At the beginning of the Zapruder film, three motorcycles are seen turning onto Elm Street, two on the left side of the frame, one on the right. The motorcycle on the far left appears to go straight down the dead end street that runs in front of the Texas School Book Depository, while the other two proceed down Elm Street. I've never seen this discussed and, as far as I can see, it is not reflected in the ariel reconstruction. 

Robert,

I believe those motorbikes first seen in Zapruder are the 3 Advance Motorcycles and we do not get to see either the Lead Car or the Lead Motorcycles since they are in the Zapruder Gap.

[Joseph McBride]

Todd Wayne Vaughan in 1993 did a valuable 50-page schematic breakdown of the motorcade identifying

vehicles and people and providing other information, etc. It's posted on the site with Harold Weisberg's papers.

 

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/M Disk/Motorcade Route/Item 15.pdf

[Karl Hilliard]

16 hours ago, Mark Tyler said:

 

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html

The web page also has a list of all the actor names and numbers, along with a list of photos and events that appear in the video.

 

It reminds me somewhat of architect Robert Cutler's stuff put into motion. He had graphically introduced something like nine or so possible shooter positions.

[Joseph McBride]

Todd Wayne Vaughan in 1993 did a valuable 50-page schematic breakdown of the motorcade identifying

vehicles and people and providing other information, etc. It's posted on the site with Harold Weisberg's papers.

 

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/M Disk/Motorcade Route/Item 15.pdf