W. Niederhut Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 Well said, Joe. The American middle class has fallen behind the middle classes of most Western European "social democracies" in metrics of prosperity -- income, wealth, healthcare access, education, vacation days, and retirement prospects. And, as Paul Krugman has pointed out recently, the current denigration of "socialism" by the U.S. right wing media is based on an erroneous concept of free market "social democracy" in Western Europe and the G-7. Western European capitalists were not able to destroy the labor movement and denigrate "socialism" as effectively as their American counterparts during the past 70 years. Edward Bernays' techniques, diligently implemented by our captains of industry, have played a major role in the destruction of "social democracy" in the U.S.-- along with the heavily-funded "misanthropic libertarian" machinations of Robber Barons like the Koch brothers, as described in Nancy MacLean's critically-acclaimed history of Koch-ism, Democracy in Chains. Our U.S. political culture has shifted so far to the right in recent decades that Eisenhower Republicanism (and even many of Reagan's policy positions!) would now be regarded as too "liberal" by most Tea Party Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share Posted August 24, 2019 Trump is under tremendous stress and this is one indication. Such stress could lead to a stroke or heart attack. https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/08/21/just-hours-after-anti-semitic-remarks-trump-self-promotes-himself-king-israel-second?fbclid=IwAR2_E76qLmzNsvML4wYkxNitWZRtg0LB9RXxz4fwBluTkO9vNPq-k9dbRsc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Douglas Caddy said: Trump is under tremendous stress and this is one indication. Such stress could lead to a stroke or heart attack. https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/08/21/just-hours-after-anti-semitic-remarks-trump-self-promotes-himself-king-israel-second?fbclid=IwAR2_E76qLmzNsvML4wYkxNitWZRtg0LB9RXxz4fwBluTkO9vNPq-k9dbRsc Anyone who is not alarmed by Trump's bizarre behavior this week is not paying attention. I've treated a lot of people with narcissistic personality disorders over the years, but no one as severely impaired as Donald Trump. The essence of NPD is what the psychoanalyst Heinz Kohut described as the "grandiose self" -- something which emerges in childhood as a defense against inner feelings of worthlessness. People with NPD have fragile self-esteem, and typically become enraged when anyone criticizes them, disagrees with them, or confronts them about their shortcomings. They also have grossly impaired perceptions of people, tending to either idealize or devalue others-- as a projection of their divided sense of self (worthless vs.wonderful.) Trump has repeatedly appointed "idealized" staffers, (and wives) only to devalue, curse, and denigrate them, in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Santos Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said: Anyone who is not alarmed by Trump's bizarre behavior this week is not paying attention. I've treated a lot of people with narcissistic personality disorders over the years, but no one as severely impaired as Donald Trump. The essence of NPD is what the psychoanalyst Heinz Kohut described as the "grandiose self" -- something which emerges in childhood as a defense against inner feelings of worthlessness. People with NPD have fragile self-esteem, and typically become enraged when anyone criticizes them, disagrees with them, or confronts them about their shortcomings. They also have grossly impaired perceptions of people, tending to either idealize or devalue others-- as a projection of their divided sense of self (worthless vs.wonderful.) Trump has repeatedly appointed "idealized" staffers, (and wives) only to devalue, curse, and denigrate them, in time. How can you diagnose someone without personally examining them? For all you know, and you do not, publically it is an act. Privately he could be different to some degree. Sorry, diagnosing someone from an armchair and without a personal evaluation is concerning. Edited August 24, 2019 by Cory Santos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bacon Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Cory Santos said: How can you diagnose someone without personally examining them? For all you know, and you do not, publically it is an act. Privately he could be different to some degree. Sorry, diagnosing someone from an armchair and without a personal evaluation is concerning. Spoken like someone who's never been involved with a narcissist. And you don't have to be trained to make the observation W.N. has. Anyone who's done any soul searching and behavior watching can see it. And Trump is definitely getting worse. He can't help himself--it's no act! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Cory Santos said: How can you diagnose someone without personally examining them? For all you know, and you do not, publically it is an act. Privately he could be different to some degree. Sorry, diagnosing someone from an armchair and without a personal evaluation is concerning. This was discussed 6 - 12 months after the election. Seems like a hundred or so psychiatrists and/or psychologists agreed a full determination could not be ascertained without a personal interview, and anything short of that is inconclusive. But, they also concluded from public statements he is a narcissist. Unlike JFK. Edited August 25, 2019 by Ron Bulman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 It would seem to me that commonsense would dictate that is impossible to make a comprehensive diagnosis of a private individual without a personal interview but that rule would not apply to a public figure such as Donald Trump, President of the United States, who everyday makes declarations and decisions that clearly reveal to John Q. Public that he is a man who is of deteriorating mental health and obviously narcissistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 On 8/24/2019 at 11:42 AM, Cory Santos said: How can you diagnose someone without personally examining them? For all you know, and you do not, publically it is an act. Privately he could be different to some degree. Sorry, diagnosing someone from an armchair and without a personal evaluation is concerning. There is a great deal of evidence in the public domain about Trump's personality disorder, including vignettes about his childhood history-- punching his music teacher in the eye in grade school, adamantly refusing to ever admit that he was wrong, truancy, and frequent detentions before being sent to a military school at age 13, etc. And, yes, it is possible to make reasonably accurate inferences about the psychiatric disorders of public figures without a sit down interview. The entire field of psychoanalytic history (Erik Erickson, Anthony Storr, et.al.) is predicated on that concept. If anything, a comprehensive, longitudinal history is a far more sound basis for diagnosing some psychiatric disorders than a sit down interview-- especially in the case of antisocial personality disorders, where the subject is skilled at dissembling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Santos Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: There is a great deal of evidence in the public domain about Trump's personality disorder, including vignettes about his childhood history-- punching his music teacher in the eye in grade school, adamantly refusing to ever admit that he was wrong, truancy, and frequent detentions before being sent to a military school at age 13, etc. And, yes, it is possible to make reasonably accurate inferences about the psychiatric disorders of public figures without a sit down interview. The entire field of psychoanalytic history (Erik Erickson, Anthony Storr, et.al.) is predicated on that concept. If anything, a comprehensive, longitudinal history is a far more sound basis for diagnosing some psychiatric disorders than a sit down interview-- especially in the case of antisocial personality disorders, where the subject is skilled at dissembling. So please share your professional view on Jack Ruby, LHO, and JFK. I am interested in your medical opinion. Please provide your opinion to a reasonable degree of medical probability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cory Santos said: So please share your professional view on Jack Ruby, LHO, and JFK. I am interested in your medical opinion. Please provide your opinion to a reasonable degree of medical probability. That's a tall order, especially since I know less about JFK, Jack Ruby, and Lee Harvey Oswald than most of the forum members here. As for Donald Trump's mental health, or lack thereof, here are two references. (I've read Yale psychiatrist Dr. Bandy Lee's anthology, but not Dr. Justin Frank's analysis.) Trump on the Couch: Inside the Mind of the President https://www.amazon.com/Trump-Couch-Inside-Mind-President/dp/0735220328 The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 27 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess a President https://www.amazon.com/Dangerous-Case-Donald-Trump-Psychiatrists/dp/1250179459/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_img_0/136-9913104-2347220?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=787JYHMSP6ADM7CZ9P0F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Santos Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 23 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: That's a tall order, especially since I know less about JFK, Jack Ruby, and Lee Harvey Oswald than most of the forum members here. As for Donald Trump's mental health, or lack thereof, here are two references. (I've read Yale psychiatrist Dr. Bandy Lee's anthology, but not Dr. Justin Frank's analysis.) Trump on the Couch: Inside the Mind of the President https://www.amazon.com/Trump-Couch-Inside-Mind-President/dp/0735220328 The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 27 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess a President https://www.amazon.com/Dangerous-Case-Donald-Trump-Psychiatrists/dp/1250179459/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_img_0/136-9913104-2347220?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=787JYHMSP6ADM7CZ9P0F But, for the analysis to be devoid of argument of prejudice, I question if these experts are bipartisian truly concerned experts willing to forego the Goldwater rule or simply angry anti-Trump voters who happen to be professionals. Do we know the background of these professionals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 Here is how Trump appears to one member of John Q. Public: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1165391145637208064.html?fbclid=IwAR0BZpIvF1odZU304BNuyKzsh4xrxYVxxANQuxyS7xHh-eJFFFF1R301M08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 45 minutes ago, Cory Santos said: But, for the analysis to be devoid of argument of prejudice, I question if these experts are bipartisian truly concerned experts willing to forego the Goldwater rule or simply angry anti-Trump voters who happen to be professionals. Do we know the background of these professionals? It's a fair question, especially since some highly paid forensic psychiatrists I have known have the ethical standards of street walkers. As for the Goldwater Rule, it was formally rejected by the American Psychoanalytic Association recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 3 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said: Here is how Trump appears to one member of John Q. Public: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1165391145637208064.html?fbclid=IwAR0BZpIvF1odZU304BNuyKzsh4xrxYVxxANQuxyS7xHh-eJFFFF1R301M08 Very interesting Mr. Caddy. I'd never heard of Frontotemporal Dementia (or PSP). Thank you for posting the link. A public melt down could be not just a United States disaster but world wide. Is it starting to effect the financial sector already? I'm wondering if potential retirement (mine) is becoming even more of a bad joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted August 26, 2019 Author Share Posted August 26, 2019 9 hours ago, Ron Bulman said: Very interesting Mr. Caddy. I'd never heard of Frontotemporal Dementia (or PSP). Thank you for posting the link. A public melt down could be not just a United States disaster but world wide. Is it starting to effect the financial sector already? I'm wondering if potential retirement (mine) is becoming even more of a bad joke. U.S. Companies Greet Latest Trump Tweets With Concern and Confusion https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jones/20190825882/us-companies-greet-latest-trump-tweets-with-concern-and-confusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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