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David Andrews

Stephen Kinzer on Frank Olson

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They were seeking the development of control of the human mind through the use of hypnotism and/or the use drugs, sleep depravation and more.  Ruby via West and Sirhan via ??? were the results.  Among many others.  

I didn't believe in hypnotism, period.  Lisa Pease book A lie Too Big To Fail made me question my belief.  Different people are more susceptible than others to such.  Their state of mind at the time also plays a large part in it's effectiveness.  I.E. if they already were drugged, drunk, psychotic or say schizophrenic.  The CIA through MKULTRA testing learned about this in detail.

I never knew the CIA developed the Swedish drug LSD for testing of such in the late 1940's.  I gather they found it too erratic  for use with hypnotism but other drugs were found more useful.

Frank Olson was a human experiment by Sidney Gottlieb that failed.  Jolly West's meeting with Ruby, and, the manipulation of Sirhan may well have been the result of experiment's that went right.     

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On 9/11/2019 at 12:21 AM, Ron Bulman said:

They were seeking the development of control of the human mind through the use of hypnotism and/or the use drugs, sleep depravation and more.  Ruby via West and Sirhan via ??? were the results.  Among many others.  

I didn't believe in hypnotism, period.  Lisa Pease book A lie Too Big To Fail made me question my belief.  Different people are more susceptible than others to such.  Their state of mind at the time also plays a large part in it's effectiveness.  I.E. if they already were drugged, drunk, psychotic or say schizophrenic.  The CIA through MKULTRA testing learned about this in detail.

I never knew the CIA developed the Swedish drug LSD for testing of such in the late 1940's.  I gather they found it too erratic  for use with hypnotism but other drugs were found more useful.

Frank Olson was a human experiment by Sidney Gottlieb that failed.  Jolly West's meeting with Ruby, and, the manipulation of Sirhan may well have been the result of experiment's that went right.     

I'm going to order this book.  The topic, in essence MKULTRA , runs through the whole backstory of the JFK assassination.  From Dulles approval of it, through Jolly and Ruby to RFK and Sirhan and on to Manson.

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Just be warned Ron, Kinzer is an MSM guy so he has to toe the line on anything related to the Kennedys.

This was clear in his book on the Dulles brothers.

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1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Just be warned Ron, Kinzer is an MSM guy so he has to toe the line on anything related to the Kennedys.

This was clear in his book on the Dulles brothers.

15 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I'm going to order this book.  The topic, in essence MKULTRA , runs through the whole backstory of the JFK assassination.  From Dulles approval of it, through Jolly and Ruby to RFK and Sirhan and on to Manson.

I have the e-book, and Jolyon West gets several mentions in the index.  I have several books ahead of Kinzer and haven't had a chance to see what depth and dirt he offers on West.  I scoped the overall tone on Gottlieb and Kinzer's line is that he was a monster who assuaged his guilt with spirituality and charity.  Overall, I'm betting that this is better than the Nothing that was available on Gottlieb through the MSM before.  I have Albarelli['s Frank Olson e-book also, but, alas, that's also in the queue behind my 9/11-related reading.

Edited by David Andrews

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Since I'm in beautiful Colorado at the moment I thought about the forum's resident psychiatrist, W. Niederhut, as, if I recall correctly he resides here.  Which made me think of this thread and a couple of others.  I wonder what he thinks of the possibilities of MKULTRA running through the assassinations of JFK and RFK, maybe beyond.  Was Sirhan hypnotized and drugged by operatives of it, is this a realistic possibility.  Could Jolly West have scrambled Ruby's mind in one visit?  It seems they did kill Olson, among likely many others previously.

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21 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Since I'm in beautiful Colorado at the moment I thought about the forum's resident psychiatrist, W. Niederhut, as, if I recall correctly he resides here.  Which made me think of this thread and a couple of others.  I wonder what he thinks of the possibilities of MKULTRA running through the assassinations of JFK and RFK, maybe beyond.  Was Sirhan hypnotized and drugged by operatives of it, is this a realistic possibility.  Could Jolly West have scrambled Ruby's mind in one visit?  It seems they did kill Olson, among likely many others previously.

Ron,

     I probably know less about the histories of Oswald and Sirhan than most of the people on this forum.  (I still haven't read Lisa Pease's new book about RFK-- although I have read her essays in the Assassinations (Probe magazine) anthology published by DiEugenio, et.al.)

    From what I have read, I do believe that Sirhan was probably a true Manchurian candidate who was medicated and hypnotically "programmed" to fire a gun at RFK.

    My only (peripheral) contact with Dr. Jolyon West happened in late 1982 when I was a 4th year student at Harvard Medical School.  I had interviewed that fall with the residency director at the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute, and had a bad vibe about the interview.  So, I talked to one of my faculty advisers at HMS, Dr. Leon Eisenberg, about my iffy interview at UCLA.  Eisenberg picked up his phone, right there and then, and called "Jolly West," the Chairman of Psychiatry at UCLA.  He and "Jolly" chatted amicably for a few minutes.  After hanging up the phone, Eisenberg looked at me and said, "You're in."   

     At the time, the only thing I knew about "Jolly West" was that he had a weird name, and was Chairman of Psychiatry at UCLA. (I decided that year over the Christmas break to come back home to Denver for my residency training, instead of going out to UCLA-- a decision that I have second guessed for the past 36 years.)

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2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ron,

     I probably know less about the histories of Oswald and Sirhan than most of the people on this forum.  (I still haven't read Lisa Pease's new book about RFK-- although I have read her essays in the Assassinations (Probe magazine) anthology published by DiEugenio, et.al.)

    From what I have read, I do believe that Sirhan was probably a true Manchurian candidate who was medicated and hypnotically "programmed" to fire a gun at RFK.

    My only (peripheral) contact with Dr. Jolyon West happened in late 1982 when I was a 4th year student at Harvard Medical School.  I had interviewed that fall with the residency director at the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute, and had a bad vibe about the interview.  So, I talked to one of my faculty advisers at HMS, Dr. Leon Eisenberg, about my iffy interview at UCLA.  Eisenberg picked up his phone, right there and then, and called "Jolly West," the Chairman of Psychiatry at UCLA.  He and "Jolly" chatted amicably for a few minutes.  After hanging up the phone, Eisenberg looked at me and said, "You're in."   

     At the time, the only thing I knew about "Jolly West" was that he had a weird name, and was Chairman of Psychiatry at UCLA. (I decided that year over the Christmas break to come back home to Denver for my residency training, instead of going out to UCLA-- a decision that I have second guessed for the past 36 years.)

You do know about Jolly OD'ing the elephant at the OKC zoo with LSD when he was at OU in the 1950's?  He invited others to observe the effects of sending the elephant on a "trip".  Shot it up with so much after around five minutes it fell over and died.  Made the local news if I remember right.  The OU Regents were worried about how to pay for the elephant.  The tab was ultimately picked up by what many more years later was discovered to be a front company for the CIA.  MKULTRA specifically.  

It didn't seem to hurt his standing with Gottlieb.  After his brief encounter with Ruby he moved on to an office in the Haight Ashbury Free Medical Clinic with a nearby "observation lab" in 1967.  Then later, as you do know, to UCLA.  Leaving his files there was more revealing than anything the CIA ever admitted.

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On 10/3/2019 at 1:06 AM, Ron Bulman said:

You do know about Jolly OD'ing the elephant at the OKC zoo with LSD when he was at OU in the 1950's?  He invited others to observe the effects of sending the elephant on a "trip".  Shot it up with so much after around five minutes it fell over and died.  Made the local news if I remember right.  The OU Regents were worried about how to pay for the elephant.  The tab was ultimately picked up by what many more years later was discovered to be a front company for the CIA.  MKULTRA specifically.  

It didn't seem to hurt his standing with Gottlieb.  After his brief encounter with Ruby he moved on to an office in the Haight Ashbury Free Medical Clinic with a nearby "observation lab" in 1967.  Then later, as you do know, to UCLA.  Leaving his files there was more revealing than anything the CIA ever admitted.

Getting away with killing the elephant (in the room so to speak) surprised me, along with other likely deeds.  Like possibly the crazed soldier child rapist killer at the AFB in San Antonio he was employed at.  Then there was the de programing of the Korean prisoners.  That gave him his start.  About the time Allan Dulles took over the CIA.  

But I really wonder about him "scrambling Ruby's brains" in one session as mentioned in Chaos.

And in turn with his So Cal connections by that time if he might have been an advisor in the programing of Sirhan. 

 

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Getting away with killing the elephant (in the room so to speak) surprised me, along with other likely deeds.  Like possibly the crazed soldier child rapist killer at the AFB in San Antonio he was employed at.  Then there was the de programing of the Korean prisoners.  That gave him his start.  About the time Allan Dulles took over the CIA.  

But I really wonder about him "scrambling Ruby's brains" in one session as mentioned in Chaos.

And in turn with his So Cal connections by that time if he might have been an advisor in the programing of Sirhan. 

 

Ron, because things aren't weird enough yet...look through the back threads for associations between Sirhan and a Col. Michael Aquino, Army psyops specialist.  He got some coverage here a few years ago, and exudes quite a presence in the first several pages on him in Google.  Caveat lector as for veracity, but in legend a strange-o for the books.

Edited by David Andrews

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9 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Ron, because things aren't weird enough yet...look through the back threads for associations between Sirhan and a Col. Michael Aquino, Army psyops specialist.  He got some coverage here a few years ago, and exudes quite a presence in the first several pages on him in Google.  Caveat lector as for veracity, but in legend a strange-o for the books.

I really need to read up on the history of MK-ULTRA and Jolly West's work for the Company.

Any advice about good articles and books on the subject?

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18 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

I really need to read up on the history of MK-ULTRA and Jolly West's work for the Company.

Any advice about good articles and books on the subject?

IMO, skip the books. Search, read and share the documents.

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Posted (edited)
On 10/5/2019 at 10:55 AM, W. Niederhut said:

I really need to read up on the history of MK-ULTRA and Jolly West's work for the Company.

Any advice about good articles and books on the subject?

I'll be honest with you, W. - if I may call you W. - I don't read a lot about mind control or the MKULTRA program.  What I know anecdotally I have gotten from past threads here and on Deep Politics Forum.  There was a time when MKULTRA got a lot of coverage on EF, and those threads are worth seeking out for leads to what literature discerning minds prefer. 

Essentially everything I've absorbed or eschewed I have come into contact with in assassination literature.  The earliest-published books on RFK and Sirhan, including RFK Must Die by Robert Kaiser, discuss Sirhan's hypnotized appearance.  Threads and books on Mary Pinchot Meyer sideline in Timothy Leary's LSD adventures at Harvard.  Probably the seminal work in this area is Donald Bain's The Control of Candy Jones (1976), the story of the fashion model allegedly turned into a hypno-intelligence op and sex slave.  Candy Jones and her husband, early conspiracy-paranormal shock-jock Long John Nebel, appear in the EF back threads.

Back threads on Frank Olson will also lead you to related literature.  I have e-books of Hank Albarelli on Olson, and Stephen Kinzer on Sidney Gottleib, and I haven't been able to crack them because of other reading.  I know that the Kinzer book has several indexed mentions of Jolyon West, but I don't know their substance.

Some of my ignorance here is sheer avoidance.  The possibilities for sensational press at the level of the worst of the internet seem too much to wade through.  On the other hand, stories of people whose memories Dr. Donald Cameron erased by strapping them to hospital beds and playing disturbing audio tapes through sensory deprivation helmets, and the idea of children like the fabled Johnny Gosch being programmed into sex slaves for celebrities and politicians, sickens me to consider.  I prefer to direct my moral nausea toward topics I've committed to, like 9/11.  You, however, may like to pass where I have passed before, through the back threads on EF and DPF, a waxworks where lurk figures like Michael Aquino, and Dr. Jose Rivera, who did a psychedelics-and-hypnosis number on the late Adele Edisen, once a member here.

Persons who can be of more help along these lines should feel free to step in here.

Some Dr. Donald Cameron for everybody:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1985/07/28/25-years-of-nightmares/cb836420-9c72-4d3c-ae60-70a8f13c4ceb/

Edited by David Andrews

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Posted (edited)

Like I said, the MKULTRA thing is so freaky a world that it becomes the abyss that stares into you, even on a Sunday morning.  So here's a little Story That Alfred Hitchcock Couldn't Tell On TV, quoted from the wicked stepmother of all gossip sites, Crazy Days and Nights.  Following that are some helpful excerpts from the reader comments.  Jaws 3-D is probably the first movie cited, since infrared film was made of theater audience reaction, clips of which can be seen in making-of documentaries available on anniversary DVDs of the original Jaws.

 

https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2019/

Today's Blind Items - Project Hedonia - A House On St. Charles Blind Item

It all makes sense if you think about it. What was the House On St. Charles known for? As I have recounted here several times, it was designed as the ultimate honey trap house of all time. Maybe Epstein and Maxwell would say otherwise, but St. Charles has always got the most return for its buck. If you will also recall, the owners of the house specifically targeted big name celebrities as part of their push. They wanted control over actors and producers and directors. Why though? They can pay of course and are worried about being caught as much as anyone else, but why them? Why the focus.

Remember this is the city where the university covered up their experiments more so than anywhere else. They had the doctor everyone feared the most. They had the doctor who knew more about altering brains, than any other doctor in time. While his experiments and work is now being praised for bringing scientific breakthroughs in cures for certain diseases, one part of his research has not been discussed. It was his research, the hidden research that has caused the government to get into bed so deeply with Hollywood. It is not just about propaganda. It is what he hypothesized during his experiments. What would happen, if you didn't need the actual electrodes hooked to the brain. What if you could do it via some other method. What visual effect closest resembles/mimics what he was doing with electrodes. Was there something? Yes, there was. The thing of it is, everyone who submits to it, does so voluntarily.

Back in the very early 80's when things were tough, they had to keep a low profile because of all the hearings and aftermath of the Congressional investigations. It was disguised as a grant paid to the university and it involved using 3-D in movies. This was crude. They were guessing and was not sure what was going to work. They needed a huge 3-D movie they knew would get tens of thousands of people into theatres to see what would work and what wouldn't. It also had to be a film that got people to react several different times during the movie and cause some stress. So many things to test. The government gave a whole bunch of money to get a movie made that really had no reason to be made and then, made it in 3-D. It was exactly what researchers needed, and they set up five theatres in different parts of the country with cameras and measuring devices to see the results of their tests.

They also wanted to test it with a completely different kind of film. One which made zero sense to put in 3-D. It was ridiculous and also a really bad movie. To make things interesting, they picked a movie about spies and Russians. They wanted to test reactions in a completely different way.

Those were the first two. Since then, they have refined and refined and found which actors work best delivering messages or lines. Funny thing how the actors that perform the best are the ones who were blackmailed. Two A+ list mostly movie actors are at the top of the list. Think the long long long awaited sequels in two separate franchises starring the same A+ list actor and in two very differing formats was a coincidence? It is the same type setup they used over three decades ago. Two total opposites. 

Posted by ent lawyer at 10:10 AM 23 comments  

MDAnderson said...

Robert Galbraith Heath at Tulane might be the doctor.

10:17 AM

E said...

Deepfake video as a logical outgrowth of 3D, maybe?

10:42 AM

Unknown said...

While the blind is good, I'm more interested in the research they are doing. As soon as you mentioned 3D, I got an idea of what was going on.

Each hemisphere of the brain is responsible for handling different functions. (both physical and psychological). And the nerves from each eye is fed directly to opposite sides of the brain.

With a 3d film/image, each eye is fed a different image. Which means it's theoretically possible to send different psychological triggers to each side of the brain via a subtle manipulation of which images/sounds are sent to each eye/ear.

I've thought about this idea in the past, but I was unaware that anyone was doing any serious research on it.

10:43 AM

Guesser said...

So Jaws 3D as the movie that made sense to do in 3D and to do stress tests. The Man who Wasn't There the film that made no sense to be made 3D. I like the W*** S**** guess for A+actor being blackmailed. I get the mind control aspect,but for what purpose are we assuming?

10:44 AM

bumble bee said...

There was a Friday the 13th that was 3D.

10:48 AM

purpleiris said...

http://www.tulanelink.com/mind/tulane_role_04a.htm

10:56 AM

DJS NOLA said...

It still amazes me more hasnt been investigated about that fire early this year in NOLA . nothing about it made any sense.. and that sh*t burned like it was meant to burn to the ground... also was funny how cars were parked in front of fire hydrants near the house too.. anything to delay the reaction times of the NOFD

11:26 AM

Clark Green said...

Norman Mayer Building, just off St Charles Ave, housed a See_Eye_Aye program for years. That is my guess for the location of the house.

11:30 AM

 

Edited by David Andrews

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