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W. Niederhut

Are Most JFKA Truthers Also 9/11 Truthers?

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I agree with you on the extent of Israeli direct participation, Anthony.  For instance, if any entity did controlled demo pre-rigging, it would be an American privatized concern.

Edited by David Andrews

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I've been called a conspiracy theorist, though I try my best to look for facts.  Never been called a Truther I guess because I've never delved into the possibilities or questions I have read about 9/11.  Many years ago I had to agree with what I'd read.  How was there enough jet fuel in one airliner each to not just burn down those buildings but bring them down so fast?  They were made of steel and concrete, fire resistant materials on the interior.  Not enough fuel for that, not enough explosion at the point of impact to just blow the tops off above it.  So I guess I am  a Truther.  I don't believe the accepted conclusion, or lack of one.

I do find this all fascinating.  The thread and posts are really informative.  But, Anthony, David, W, Paul, where do you find the time to read about all this in such depth?

I do have a question about piggybacking as I've read about it some, regarding the JFK assassination.   In relation to it, do any of you think it's possible the pig was created on purpose, to piggyback, so to speak?  I.E., IMO Dulles planned for the Bay of Pigs to fail.  Some have said to force JFK to support a full scale attack on Cuba.  But if "they' realized the new young President didn't capitulate to the Joint Chief's and others pressure he would have the right wingers, anti Castro Cubans, mob, CIA and military willing to eventually see him eliminated?  Then, Dulles, Wall Street, the East Coast Establishment could piggyback the sentiment to eliminate the man interfering in potential war profits, as well those from natural resources in other countries?  By utilizing elements of the CIA and military in particular?  Am I making any sense here?  Could it have been repeated on a grander scale later?

GWB hanging in elementary school is pretty curious too.  MR. President!  In the Air Now! 

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Ron, with 9/11, I had an office job in 2001, and read a couple of articles online just two or three weeks after the attacks that asked a couple of questions about oddities surrounding the event. So, I began to keep an eye on the websites and literature and - eventually - documentaries that covered it, and went from there. But it's a very big subject, the same as the JFK assassination.

And with JFK, I sporadically read up on books, followed the work of James DiEugenio and a few other writers online, visited a couple of forums, including this one, and had the benefit of a friend in Melbourne who was also well briefed with both subjects, so we'd catch up for coffee and discuss.

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I do think it's possible to create one op specifically to piggyback one or more other ops on it.  I can't give you specifics but I'm sure it's been done.  If you look at a war or fighting an insurgency as a large op, then there are multiple unspoken missions that can be fulfilled therein.

Edited by David Andrews

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Ron,

     I retired one year ago, so I've had more time to read about subjects that interest me -- the JFK assassination, 9/11, and the "untold history" of the United States (Reconstruction, slavery, etc.)

     Christopher Bollyn has been documenting the "untold history" of 9/11 from the beginning, and his monographs and archives are fascinating.  Guyenot's book JFK to 9/11 was an early introduction to the 9/11 research literature for me.  The scientific data at Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth is also worth perusing.

    As for the complexity of the 9/11 op, mentioned by David, there had to be an array of players.  The Pentagon was, obviously, involved in the 9/11 "war games" that prevented interception of the planes.  There is strong evidence of Mossad involvement in the explosive demolitions of Larry Silverstein's WTC buildings (including WTC7.)   NYC municipal authorities, including Mayor Rudy Giuluani and Chief of Police Bernard Kerik, were obviously involved in the sequestration and destruction of Ground Zero evidence.  The FBI sequestered the evidence at the Pentagon site.

     Jerome Hauer of Kroll and Associates managed security at the WTC after Silverstein was awarded the leases by the Port Authority in July of 2001.  Zim Shipping. an apparent Mossad front company, was a tenant of the WTC until September 4, 2001-- when they relocated to D.C., despite having extended liability remaining on their long-term WTC lease.

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Jim Harwood writes:

Quote

The British have played the key role in establishing the narrative around the Kennedy murder ever since Lord Russell got an advanced copy of the Warren Commission report (how does a foreigner get an advanced copy?) and penned his famous 16 questions which pinned the blame on the nasty US government. It seems Lord Russell's job was to organize the Kennedy murder around right wing and Jacobin lines and away from the only true author of the murder the British Empire.

What?

Quote

Even this website was established by former Hollinger Corporation employee John Simkin. Its all very interesting.

It's all very paranoid. What does Mr Simkin's employment history have to do with the price of fish?

Did Bertrand Russell get an advance copy of the Warren Report? I'd be interested to see the evidence for that, not that it would make the slightest difference to anything even if he had got hold of an advance copy.

Russell's article was published two weeks to the day before the Report was presented to President Johnson. As far as I'm aware, Russell based his article largely on information from Mark Lane and the many newspaper stories, most of them essentially Warren Commission press releases, about what might end up in the Report. Given the facts that were available at the time, he did a pretty good job of pointing out the flaws in the official investigation and in the Warren Commission's activities.

What makes you think his article "pinned the blame on the nasty US government"? Russell's article didn't pin the blame on anyone. You haven't actually read it, have you?

Quote

Russell's job was to organize the Kennedy murder around right wing and Jacobin lines and away from the only true author of the murder the British Empire.

Russell didn't "organize the Kennedy murder" around any lines. You really haven't read the article, have you? Here you go:

http://22november1963.org.uk/bertrand-russell-16-questions-on-the-assassination

Have a look at that domain name. It ends with .uk, doesn't it? If you ask me, that website was put together on the orders of the Queen, the Duke of Westminster and the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Quote

this British intelligence operation titled "The British Who Killed Kennedy Committee"

Punctuation matters. It wasn't The British-who-killed-Kennedy Committee but The British 'Who Killed Kennedy?' Committee.

Take a look at the list of committee members at the end of Russell's article. They are mostly writers and other cultural figures. There's also a couple of academics, a politician (who, as it happens, I saw once, walking down the street in London) and a bishop. Yup, it definitely looks like an intelligence operation to me. What evidence do you have for that assertion?

Quote

this old Brit is licking his chops waiting to use the murder as a means of advancing British geopolitical designs ... he's putting this committee of British intelligence figures together in order to obfuscate the British hand in the Kennedy assassination and to blame the very same US Government

Bertrand Russell was just about the last person who would have wanted to advance "British geopolitical designs"! Do you have the faintest idea of who Bertrand Russell was?

What exactly was "the British hand in the Kennedy assassination"? Come on, tell us. Give us all the details. I'm sure we could do with a good laugh!

Jim Hargrove posts crazy stuff about fake Oswalds running around all over Dallas, and Jim Harwood posts crazy stuff about "the British Empire" being behind the JFK assassination. The similarity in names can't be a coincidence, can it? I mean, what are the odds? There has to be something more to it!

Wood, Grove. Grove, Wood. They mean the same sort of thing. It's pretty similar to Bohemian Grove, isn't it? Those Jims are plotting against us, I tell you! And don't forget: the Queen is a lizard!

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13 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Jim Harwood writes:

What?

It's all very paranoid. What does Mr Simkin's employment history have to do with the price of fish?

Did Bertrand Russell get an advance copy of the Warren Report? I'd be interested to see the evidence for that, not that it would make the slightest difference to anything even if he had got hold of an advance copy.

Russell's article was published two weeks to the day before the Report was presented to President Johnson. As far as I'm aware, Russell based his article largely on information from Mark Lane and the many newspaper stories, most of them essentially Warren Commission press releases, about what might end up in the Report. Given the facts that were available at the time, he did a pretty good job of pointing out the flaws in the official investigation and in the Warren Commission's activities.

What makes you think his article "pinned the blame on the nasty US government"? Russell's article didn't pin the blame on anyone. You haven't actually read it, have you?

Russell didn't "organize the Kennedy murder" around any lines. You really haven't read the article, have you? Here you go:

http://22november1963.org.uk/bertrand-russell-16-questions-on-the-assassination

Have a look at that domain name. It ends with .uk, doesn't it? If you ask me, that website was put together on the orders of the Queen, the Duke of Westminster and the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Punctuation matters. It wasn't The British-who-killed-Kennedy Committee but The British 'Who Killed Kennedy?' Committee.

Take a look at the list of committee members at the end of Russell's article. They are mostly writers and other cultural figures. There's also a couple of academics, a politician (who, as it happens, I saw once, walking down the street in London) and a bishop. Yup, it definitely looks like an intelligence operation to me. What evidence do you have for that assertion?

Bertrand Russell was just about the last person who would have wanted to advance "British geopolitical designs"! Do you have the faintest idea of who Bertrand Russell was?

What exactly was "the British hand in the Kennedy assassination"? Come on, tell us. Give us all the details. I'm sure we could do with a good laugh!

Jim Hargrove posts crazy stuff about fake Oswalds running around all over Dallas, and Jim Harwood posts crazy stuff about "the British Empire" being behind the JFK assassination. The similarity in names can't be a coincidence, can it? I mean, what are the odds? There has to be something more to it!

Wood, Grove. Grove, Wood. They mean the same sort of thing. It's pretty similar to Bohemian Grove, isn't it? Those Jims are plotting against us, I tell you! And don't forget: the Queen is a lizard!

Russell told the press he had received an advance copy of the report--- not that it makes any difference , correct.  Lord Russell  Hugh Trevor Roper and the British intelligence front "The British Who killed Kennedy" committee literally sponsored that idiot Mark Lane's career as a traitor. Mark Lane wrote his book Rush to Judgement in London. 

The real question is do you have any idea who the real Bertrand Russell was? 

I find it quite amusing how quickly "buffs" turn when ever there are complexities added to your  theories regarding the Kennedy killing or even American history.

By the way  Lord Russell even insinuated himself into the Cuban Missile Crisis. He sent President Kennedy some nasty cables. You might do well to access these cables from the JFK library. Lord Russell made Hitler look like boy scout.

And here you go d from your own link. How does Russell know anything about the report prior to it's release? C'mon Sherlock Holmes put your crack pipe down.

he official version of the assassination of President Kennedy has been so riddled with contradictions that it is been abandoned and rewritten no less than three times. Blatant fabrications have received very widespread coverage by the mass media, but denials of these same lies have gone unpublished. Photographs, evidence and affidavits have been doctored out of recognition. Some of the most important aspects of the case against Lee Harvey Oswald have been completely blacked out. Meanwhile, the F.B.I., the police and the Secret Service have tried to silence key witnesses or instruct them what evidence to give. Others involved have disappeared or died in extraordinary circumstances.

 

Here is some more Bertrand Russell

Bertrand Russell's Advocacy of Preemptive War, 1945-1949
Carlos  Escudé

This is a brief commentary on Bertrand Russell's opinion that preemptive war should be waged on the USSR in order to maintain a US monopoly of nuclear weapons. This opinion lasted from 1945 to 1949. The great pacifist and logician argued that humanity's survival depended on avoiding proliferation; that to seek US disarmament was utopian, because no major state would relinquish nuclear power once endowed with it; and that the US nuclear monopoly could only be safeguarded by blowing competitors to smithereens. The British pacifist believed that the West in its entirety should follow this line, bowing to US world dominance. Once the Soviets acquired nuclear power, however, Russell adopted the slogan “Better red than dead.”

Edited by Jim Harwood

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1 hour ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Jim Hargrove posts crazy stuff about fake Oswalds running around all over Dallas

This from a man who, just minutes ago in this post, praised another forum member “who does at least acknowledge the existence of more than one fake Oswald” and who also said that “there were indeed more than two Oswalds in the Texas Theater:”

In her renowned book Accessories After the Fact, Sylvia Meagher way back in 1967 wrote about two Oswalds appearing in and around Dallas in the weeks prior to the assassination.  Mr. Bojczuk calls this "crazy stuff."

Meagher.jpg

Meagher_2.jpg

Edited by Jim Hargrove

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I also have my doubts about the official story of 9/11. The official report on WTC7 said it fell due to office fires, yet here John Kerry believes otherwise:

 

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Guest Rich Pope
15 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I've been called a conspiracy theorist, though I try my best to look for facts.  Never been called a Truther I guess because I've never delved into the possibilities or questions I have read about 9/11.  Many years ago I had to agree with what I'd read.  How was there enough jet fuel in one airliner each to not just burn down those buildings but bring them down so fast?  They were made of steel and concrete, fire resistant materials on the interior.  Not enough fuel for that, not enough explosion at the point of impact to just blow the tops off above it.  So I guess I am  a Truther.  I don't believe the accepted conclusion, or lack of one.

I do find this all fascinating.  The thread and posts are really informative.  But, Anthony, David, W, Paul, where do you find the time to read about all this in such depth?

I do have a question about piggybacking as I've read about it some, regarding the JFK assassination.   In relation to it, do any of you think it's possible the pig was created on purpose, to piggyback, so to speak?  I.E., IMO Dulles planned for the Bay of Pigs to fail.  Some have said to force JFK to support a full scale attack on Cuba.  But if "they' realized the new young President didn't capitulate to the Joint Chief's and others pressure he would have the right wingers, anti Castro Cubans, mob, CIA and military willing to eventually see him eliminated?  Then, Dulles, Wall Street, the East Coast Establishment could piggyback the sentiment to eliminate the man interfering in potential war profits, as well those from natural resources in other countries?  By utilizing elements of the CIA and military in particular?  Am I making any sense here?  Could it have been repeated on a grander scale later?

GWB hanging in elementary school is pretty curious too.  MR. President!  In the Air Now! 

I'm sure plausible deniability insulated GWB for the 9/11 attacks.

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Another recommended resource. UK blogger Matthew Everett has been writing an investigative blog - Shoestring 9/11 - about aspects of the 9/11 attacks for more than a decade. Each of his articles is detailed and heavily footnoted enough to be a solid chapter in a book on the subject, but for the moment they can only be read online. I once assembled a PDF of his articles on my own to print them out - and I no longer have that PDF - but anyone can do the same over a few hours with a Word doc and cut and paste.

The blog is at 

https://shoestring911.blogspot.com

with archives running back to 2007. Here's some examples of his work.

 

The Inexplicable Calls From a Hijacked Plane Made by the Solicitor General's Wife on 9/11

https://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-inexplicable-calls-from-hijacked.html

 

Why Did the Secret Service Report That a Plane Had Crashed into the White House on 9/11?

https://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2018/10/why-did-secret-service-report-that.html

 

Security Alerts, Disabled Fire Alarms, and Unused Elevators: Suspicious Events at the World Trade Center Before 9/11

https://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2018/06/security-alerts-disabled-fire-alarms.html

 

Shanksville, Pennsylvania, on 9/11: The Mysterious Plane Crash Site Without a Plane

https://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2013/02/shanksville-pennsylvania-on-911.html

 

The Mystery of the Helicopter Flying Around the Pentagon Before the Attack There on 9/11

https://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2011/06/mystery-of-helicopter-flying-around.html

 

"Shockingly Calm": The Phone Calls From the Planes on 9/11

https://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2008/07/shockingly-calm-phone-calls-from-planes.html

 

And so on. The whole archive of articles is worth browsing through. FWIW, the issue discussed in the final article, about 'shockingly calm' phone calls from many people that day, is addressed at length by Elias Daviddson in his book linked earlier in this thread. 

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42 minutes ago, Anthony Thorne said:

Another recommended resource. UK blogger Matthew Everett has been writing an investigative blog - Shoestring 9/11 - about aspects of the 9/11 attacks for more than a decade. Each of his articles is detailed and heavily footnoted enough to be a solid chapter in a book on the subject, but for the moment they can only be read online. I once assembled a PDF of his articles on my own to print them out - and I no longer have that PDF - but anyone can do the same over a few hours with a Word doc and cut and paste.

The blog is at 

https://shoestring911.blogspot.com

with archives running back to 2007. Here's some examples of his work.

 

The Inexplicable Calls From a Hijacked Plane Made by the Solicitor General's Wife on 9/11

https://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-inexplicable-calls-from-hijacked.html

 

Why Did the Secret Service Report That a Plane Had Crashed into the White House on 9/11?

https://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2018/10/why-did-secret-service-report-that.html

 

Security Alerts, Disabled Fire Alarms, and Unused Elevators: Suspicious Events at the World Trade Center Before 9/11

https://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2018/06/security-alerts-disabled-fire-alarms.html

 

Shanksville, Pennsylvania, on 9/11: The Mysterious Plane Crash Site Without a Plane

https://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2013/02/shanksville-pennsylvania-on-911.html

 

The Mystery of the Helicopter Flying Around the Pentagon Before the Attack There on 9/11

https://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2011/06/mystery-of-helicopter-flying-around.html

 

"Shockingly Calm": The Phone Calls From the Planes on 9/11

https://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2008/07/shockingly-calm-phone-calls-from-planes.html

 

And so on. The whole archive of articles is worth browsing through. FWIW, the issue discussed in the final article, about 'shockingly calm' phone calls from many people that day, is addressed at length by Elias Daviddson in his book linked earlier in this thread. 

In a remarkable motion fittingly filed on September 11th, Michael Flynn’s attorney Sidney Powell has produced a detailed request for documents which will tell substantial parts of the story of the British campaign, beginning in 2014, to shape the 2016 U.S. election and destroy the potential of Donald Trump’s presidency. She is telling the story through what appears to be a provable account of the targeting of General Flynn, beginning in 2014, by the highest echelons of Anglo-American intelligence, because he called out their alliances with Al-Qaeda and similar terrorists in Syria and sought a very logical alliance with Russia to fight Islamic terrorism. Powell is asking U.S. District Judge Emmett Sullivan to hold Robert Mueller’s prosecutors in contempt for not producing documents which would exculpate Flynn or support his defenses at trial, documents which her very detailed motion indicates she knows, definitively, to exist. The Constitution and Judge Sullivan, in particular, through standing orders in his court, require prosecutors to produce all evidence in their possession which tends to exculpate defendants or support their defenses.

General Flynn pled guilty to lying to the FBI based on an FBI interview conducted at the White House on January 24th, 2017, his second full day as Donald Trump’s National Security Advisor. While FBI Director James Comey previously testified to Congress that agents interviewing the General did not believe he deliberately lied to them in that interview, Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his henchman pursued Flynn, and his son, claiming that he lied in his White House interview, and claiming that he and his son were also unregistered foreign agents of Turkey. The Mueller knuckle draggers engaged in a relentless press campaign painting the decorated warrior as an out and out unhinged traitor and agent of Russia. By most accounts, Flynn fell on his sword and pled guilty to lying to the FBI on December 1, 2017, in order to protect his son, who was threatened with indictment, and to protect his family, whose finances were in ruins due to legal fees. Flynn is to be sentenced by Judge Sullivan having fired his previous lawyers and replaced them with Sidney Powell and others. Powell is the author of Licensed to Lie, a detailed account of Justice Department perfidies in the Enron and Ted Stevens’ cases, particularly focused on Robert Mueller’s chief attack dog, Andrew Weissman.

Powell’s motion seeks the details of Flynn’s targeting in 2014 by British intelligence, a provable plot with events including Sir Richard Dearlove, Christopher Steele, Stefan Halper, Joseph Mifsud, Sir Christopher Andrew, and others who appear over and over again in the concocted plot against President Donald Trump. She includes the first efforts to falsely paint Flynn as a Turkish agent through lies told by James Woolsey, Bill Clinton’s CIA Director and the man who sponsored Ahmed Chalabi, the “asset” who laid the basis for the disastrous Iraq war. As a result, Flynn was fired from the DIA, and subjected to counterintelligence investigations based on bogus British claims that he was way too close to the Russian GRU and had an affair with a Cambridge based Russian historian. Flynn was one of four targets associated with the Trump Campaign when the Cross-Fire Hurricane investigation was “officially” opened by the FBI. Way back in 2015, John Brennan had convened a special FBI-CIA taskforce at the CIA aimed at destroying the Trump Campaign. She is also seeking a British intelligence letter disavowing Christopher Steele’s reliability and sent to Susan Rice in the Obama White House and President Trump’s transition team, which undermines much of the predication for the FBI’s Cross-Fire Hurricane targeting of General Flynn.

Powell also outlines details of the now notorious ambush interview of Flynn at the White House, which is the basis of his guilty plea for lying to the FBI. She appears to claim that it was James Clapper who committed the felony of leaking classified conversations between Flynn and Russian Ambassador Kislyak to the Washington Post’s David Ignatius, in the elaborate setup conducted against Flynn. Ignatius claimed in his January 12, 2017 Washington Post interview that Flynn’s discussions with Ambassador Kislyak about the Obama Administration's Russian sanctions violated the Logan Act, a 200 year old statute which had never been used. This article created the pretext for sending FBI agents to interview Flynn at the White House, assuring him, according to Powell’s document requests, that there was no active investigation concerning him and that he did not need a lawyer. Andrew McCabe conducted this setup proudly presided over by James Comey, sending the now infamous Peter Strzok to conduct the interview and record what Flynn allegedly said. Powell details that there are multiple 302s of this interview, a highly irregular situation in the FBI. Based on Powell’s document requests, Strzok and McCabe then met with Vice-President Pence to ensure Flynn was fired. On January 30th, 2017, a document was circulated in the Department of Justice and never produced to Flynn’s defense stating that he was neither an agent of Turkey, nor of Russia. McCabe in particular is singled out during this phase of the operations against Flynn, having declared, in an FBI conference call, “First we’ll F--- Flynn, Then We’ll F--- Trump.”

Peter Strzok and McCabe’s FBI counsel, Lisa Page famously engaged in an extramarital romance which produced numerous text messages detailing their bias against Donald Trump and decision to “stop” his ascension to the White House. Powell is seeking all of the text messages between these illicit lovers, including those destroyed by Robert Mueller’s staff, for the period when the two were part of Mueller’s team. In addition, Powell has asked in detail about the campaign to destroy General Flynn’s reputation by Mueller’s team as they investigated him. These requests hold promise in delineating the exact relationships between various intelligence community scribes in the news media and Mueller’s henchmen.

Should President Trump declassify all documents regarding the United Kingdom's interference with the 2016 election?

 

Edited by Jim Harwood

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To be honest, I'm not sure if Trump and UK election interference has a huge amount to do with whether JFK researchers also study 9/11. I'm sure we'll agree to disagree Jim.

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Habla de la ruina de Roma y mira lo que pasa...

I just saw this interesting analysis of the curious U.S. mainstream media silence about the untold story of the 21st century.

Investigating the Destruction of All Three World Trade Center Skyscrapers on September 11

The Role of the Media: Act I; Whatever Happened to Investigative Journalists?

https://www.globalresearch.ca/investigating-the-destruction-of-all-three-world-trade-center-skyscrapers-on-september-11/5624564

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2 hours ago, Anthony Thorne said:

To be honest, I'm not sure if Trump and UK election interference has a huge amount to do with whether JFK researchers also study 9/11. I'm sure we'll agree to disagree Jim.

Actually it's pertinent. 

1. Great Britain harbors all the major international terrorist organizations.

2. Great Britain ordered the execution of JFK

3. The British Monarchy and their Saudi accomplice carried out 911

4. The British  Empire ran the recent coup against yet another American President. 

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