EVIDENCE FOR HARVEY AND LEE (Please debate the specifics right here. Don't just claim someone else has debunked it!)

[Sandy Larsen]

Tracy,

The reason I kept asking you to explain Greg's so-called debunkings is because you'd been saying that he'd debunked various parts of the theory. I didn't think you really believed or understood Greg's so-called debunkings because his arguments were so lame IMO. Having you explain one to me would have verified to myself and others that you indeed did understand and believe it.

I never got a response from you. But finally a few days ago I got the next best thing. Cory had asked you for a short explanation for how Oswald could seemingly have been in Japan and Taiwan at the same time. Here is how you responded.

 

On 10/13/2019 at 9:07 AM, W. Tracy Parnell said:

On 10/12/2019 at 1:43 PM, Cory Santos said:

Tracy, without asking me to go to another site, can you give a short answer regarding the two records of oswald in Japan and Taiwan? I understand what Jim is arguing so if I could get a short version of the counter point I would appreciate it so I can consider both sides.  

The very short answer Cory, is that it is the way the records are being interpreted. I used to be puzzled myself about this time period in LHO's life. The explanation seems to be that his unit was assigned to a different mission than was originally planned. This and his treatment muddied up the records and enabled the H&L people to do what they do.

 

So your long answer is that Oswald's "unit was assigned to a different mission than was originally planned."

Jim has posted multiple pieces of evidence indicating that Oswald was apparently vaccinated in Japan while at the same time he was in Taiwan. Multiple, corroborating pieces of evidence. And you're convinced that this has been debunked because Greg thinks that the mission was delayed by a couple of days? Even though there is no evidence supporting this speculation. Wow. I can see why you don't want to defend your beliefs here.

 

[John Butler]

Steve Thomas reposted this,

This helps with my work on a timeline of military events of the two Oswalds.  It helps with the period of time when Lee Oswald returned from the Japan to the US.

November 15, 1958: Lee Oswald arrives in San Francisco.

 

November 19, 1958: Lee takes 30 days leave.

 

Note:  The entries listed above indicate that Lee Oswald was at this transfer unit for about 4 days.  This information is not accurate enough to determine where Lee Oswald was during this period, 16 November, 1958 to 21 December, 1958.

 

December, 1958, pre-Dec. 22:  Harvey and Lee mentioned Lee Oswald was assigned for a short period of time in December, 1958 to Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada, Area 2 (Lake Meade Marine base north of Las Vegas).  Lake Mead Base was a storage and transfer area for nuclear weapons which were tested at the Nevada Test Site.  This information would have been valuable to the Soviets.  And, there were other Nellis complexes were in the area. 

 

This may have been for just a couple of days before Dec. 22, 1958 when he returned to the El Toro base.  Or, it could have been longer depending on how he spent his leave.  The question here might be how was he ordered to report to the Nellis Base, Area 2.

 

Note:  Nellis Air Force Base:  For the nearby Nellis Air Force Gunnery and Bombing Range named by 18 December 1950, see Nevada Test and Training Range.

Area 51 is part of the Nellis complex and Lee Oswald could have learned detailed information on the U2 there where it was tested.  Perhaps things that the ordinary Marine radar operator would not know.  In light of the following in January of the next year, Lee Oswald may have been prepped for this journey to Russia with bargaining chips about the U2 and more detailed information on early warning radar systems.  Atomic information from Nuclear Testing was also done during this time at the Yucca Flats Atomic Test Range.  Also, the following year he visits Vincent Air Force Base in Yuma, AZ, an important Marine radar base.  It was used by the Air Defense Command as a surveillance radar station.

And, then there was the A-12 being tested at that time when Lee Oswald was at Nellis.

These trips to different bases may have been the icing on the cake that got Oswald into the Soviet Union. 

During this time 16 November to Dec. 22, 1958, Harvey Oswald is at the Santa Ana Marine Corps base and not on leave.

Why things are underlined here and throughout I don't know.  I can't remove the underlining.

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by John Butler

[W. Tracy Parnell]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I can see why you don't want to defend your beliefs here.

Sandy,

I don't have to defend anything. I am not the one who is pushing a debunked theory-you guys are. The burden of proof is on you. No, I don't know exactly what happened in LHO's time in the far east (or at certain other times in his life) and neither do you. But I have a good idea and Greg Parker has offered one reasonable explanation to help fill in the blanks. BTW, when someone tells me they can explain anything with 100 percent certainty if I will just listen to them, I tend to run the other way. And that is just what H&L tries to do. It is essentially a religious cult that requires a belief in one set of "facts" while ignoring everything else or claiming it is "faked."

I don't have the time or inclination to study the far east matter further right now (or likely ever) and I suspect it may come under the heading of "unknowable" and therefore a waste of valuable time. I have moved on since I believe all major questions regarding H&L have been answered with a reasonable alternate explanation. What happened in the far east can be deduced by a look at the big picture, the details are insignificant. And further "discussion" is pointless.

For example, I know the earth is round (no flat earther jokes please) but I could potentially become aware of a fact that might seem to contradict that. But a million other things tell me the earth is round so that remains a fact for myself and reasonable people. And I know (to the extent that anything can be "known") that were not 2 Oswalds from a review of ALL OF THE EVIDENCE. I have tried to help others see the same thing, but if they don't-so be it. The information at my site is there if they want it. No doubt you guys will continue to recruit new adherents who want to believe the theory. 

One thing I don't do is look at LHO's life, see a discrepancy and immediately think, "gee that proves 2 Oswalds." Let me ask you guys a question and someone else alluded to this before. Have you or Jim or John Armstrong accounted for every "double Oswald" sighting that occurred anywhere at any time? Seriously, have you made a list? If not, why isn't there a theory of 3 or 4 or 67 Oswalds? It would make just as much sense. I am working on Veciana research at this time. There are documents at Mary Ferrell that say he was born on October 18, 1928. Others say he was born October 4, 1935. Were there 2 Vecianas or is one document simply wrong. Take it to the next level. John Newman (not a lone assassin advocate) has shown several instances of Veciana's varying tales regarding Bishop. Maybe there were 5 Vecianas promoting different stories for nefarious purposes?  I know what H&L advocates would say based on the logic they promote here.

The bottom line is this. If you take your "evidence" to the experts (which you refuse to do because you know you can't) and they study it and become convinced, I might start to believe it. But what they will do is what scientists, investigators and anyone trying to find the facts will do. They will look at ALL of the evidence and reach a conclusion. And we both know what that would be.

As Bart said, this thread has become pointless so I am signing off.

Edited October 16, 2019 by W. Tracy Parnell

[John Butler]

Should someone go over to the Parker site and then post some of his so-called debunkings.  Wait, isn't Parker banned from this site?  Could any of his materials be posted here? 

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I can see why you don't want to defend your beliefs here.

Sandy,

I don't have to defend anything.

 

And therein lies the problem. You make claims but feel no need to defend them. (I'm talking specifically about your claims that Greg Parker has debunked a number of H&L lines of evidence.)
 

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

[H&L] is essentially a religious cult that requires a belief in one set of "facts" while ignoring everything else or claiming it is "faked."

 

That's not so. There's only a small handful of beliefs that John Armstrong and I share. There are some things I know of where we disagree. But I've made no commitment on the the vast majority of the theory because I haven't studied it sufficiently... yet.

David Josephs has made his differences known in a number of posts.

So this "cult" claim is just another ad hominem from a stymied opponent.

 

3 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Let me ask you guys a question and someone else alluded to this before. Have you or Jim or John Armstrong accounted for every "double Oswald" sighting that occurred anywhere at any time? Seriously, have you made a list? If not, why isn't there a theory of 3 or 4 or 67 Oswalds?

 

I happen to believe that the Oswald Project likely included more than one LHO. But I have no evidence to support my belief, so I rarely talk about it. It just makes more sense to me.

 

3 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

It would make just as much sense. I am working on Veciana research at this time. There are documents at Mary Ferrell that say he was born on October 18, 1928. Others say he was born October 4, 1935. Were there 2 Vecianas or is one document simply wrong.

 

The evidence for two Oswald's is overwhelming. A simple error in Veciana's case is nothing.

 

[Jim Hargrove]

21 hours ago, John Butler said:

He was not there at Iwakuni very long.  Depending how he went back to the US , he could have stayed at Iwakuni, Japan for a little over a week.  It is about a 2 week trip from Japan to the US by Naval transport.  This raises the question why was he sent there?  Why was he there for a short period of time?  The time period could be just a little over a week to about 3 / 4 quarters of a month depending on travel time.  Was meeting the "round-eyed" girl at Iwakuni more important than most people think? 

If Harvey left Iwakuni, Japan at the end of the month of October, 1958, an air trip would have taken about 10 hours to cover the distance between Iwakuni, Japan and San Francisco, CA.  By air the shortest route is over 5,000 miles long.   Harvey is in California on October 29, 1958.  Lee Oswald is still in Japan at this point in time.  It is one of many "smoking gun" issues of Harvey and Lee's saga.  A big one.

Iwakuni is interesting.  If Harvey Oswald was indeed there, it is much like the situation just a few years earlier with Stripling School in Fort Worth.  There is no official documentation for “Oswald’s” attendance at either Stripling or the Iwakuni military base, but lots of people remembered that he was at both.

A Frontline television special that aired in 2003 talked a lot about Oswald at Iwakuni.  Marine soldier Owen Dejanovich said he saw Oswald walking with a beautiful “round-eyed” Russian woman into an off-limits area near the base supposedly controlled by “Japanese communists.”  If we are to believe Edward Epstein, Dejanovich also said that Oswald kept referring to the Marines as “You Americans,” as if he wasn’t one.

When Harvey Oswald was stationed at Iwakuni, Lee Oswald was still at Atsugi.    Soon after this, Harvey Oswald begins parading about speaking Russian and promoting all things Russian and Communist, all in preparation for his upcoming false defection.

EDIT: I seem to remember someone claiming there was U-2 activity at or near Iwakuni, but I can't recall any of the specifics or who made the claim.  Do you know if there was even a jet base located there or near there?

Edited October 16, 2019 by Jim Hargrove

[Jim Hargrove]

16 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

To Jim H,

Rather than trying to quote an earlier post of yours, here's a little something I noticed:

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm

 

Mrs. BLEDSOE - “I said, "Well, what kind of work do you do? "Oh, I do electronics," he said, and I said, "Well, there is some good jobs because you are young, and you can get a good job a young man like you."
And then went on. Then something about him being in the Marines, and I said, "Well, that is wonderful. My son was in the Navy."

Mr. JENNER - When your son was in the Navy, did he have a duffelbag?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No. Now, it was so long ago--it was--I don't know whether he did. I don't think he did. He didn't. He was an instructor at TI.
Mr. JENNER - Was he stationed here in Dallas?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No, TI. Treasure Island.

John wrote the following on our website:

October and November, 1958 was the end of HARVEY Oswald and LEE Oswald's activities in the far east. But after returning to the US, HARVEY Oswald was assigned to MACS 9 at Santa Ana, CA, assumed LEE Oswald's identity, and began promoting himself as a supporter of all things Russian. LEE Oswald was briefly assigned to El Toro and was soon discharged. I would like to point out that not a single one of Zack Stout's group of 10 marines, who bunked with LEE Oswald, worked with him, travelled with him, and went on leave with him for one year--the marines who knew the tall, husky LEE Oswald better than anyone--not one of them was ever interviewed by the FBI. 

....

In October and November, 1958, HARVEY Oswald  was becoming very friendly with Sergeant Nelson Delgado at MACS 9 in Santa Ana, CA. Delgado told the Warren Commission that he and Oswald talked continuously about Castro, Cuba, and the Dominican Republic. Oswald showed Delgado a copy of Das Kapital, which was probably the same book that he had shown to Palmer McBride a year earlier. Delgado, Sergeant Erwin Lewis, Sergeant Camilous Brown, Buddy Simco, Mack Osborne, Neil Tessem, Henry Roussel, Robert Allen, and Paul Hickey all knew and associated with HARVEY Oswald in November and December, 1958--while LEE Oswald was either aboard ship en route to the USA (arrived 11/15/58) or on leave in Texas (returned to El Toro on 12/22/58).

[John Butler]

From Wikipedia:

The Japanese government bought a large portion of what is today MCAS Iwakuni in 1938, with the view of establishing a naval air station. They commissioned the new base 8 July 1940. When World War II started, the Iwakuni air station was used as a training and defense base. The station housed 96 trainers and 150 Zero fighter planes on the airstrip. In September 1943, a branch of the Etajima Naval Academy was established here, with approximately 1,000 cadets undergoing training in the Basic, Junior and Senior Officer's schools at any one time. American B-29's bombed Iwakuni in May and August 1945, concentrating on the oil refinery and Rail Transport Office or train station areas. The last air raid took place just a day before the war was brought to a close.

The first allies to reach Iwakuni at the war's end were a group of U.S. Marines who had signed papers ending the conflict for the Japanese air base. After the end of World War II, various military forces from the United States, Britain, Australia, and New Zealand occupied the base and it was repaired by No. 5 Airfield Construction Squadron RAAF. It was designated a Royal Australian Air Force Base in 1948. The Americans first occupied the base in 1950 to use it as a springboard for aircraft heading to the Korean War. In 1952, the base officially became a United States military base.^[6]

Iwakuni had scheduled international service by private airlines from 1952 to 1964, during which time it had the IATA airport code IWJ. This code was later reassigned to Iwami Airport in neighboring Shimane Prefecture.^[

Roughly the same information from the internet:

The first allies to reach Iwakuni at the war's end were a group of U.S. Marines who had signed papers ending the conflict for the Japanese air base. After the end of World War II, various military forces from the United States, Britain, Australia, and New Zealand occupied the base. It was designated a Royal Australian Air Force Base in 1948.

When the Korean Conflict started in 1950, units from the Royal Navy and U.S. Air Force arrived at Iwakuni as U.N. forces. Jets flew daily to support front-line troops in Korea, returning each evening to refuel and rearm. The troop processing center located here throughout the war earned Iwakuni the title “Gateway to Korea.”

The U.S. Air Force took command of the station April 1, 1952. During its period of command, the Air Force did much to improve the base's facilities. The U.S. Navy took over the station October 1, 1954. Naval Air Station Iwakuni was greatly enlarged in July 1956 when the 1st MAW moved its headquarters here from Korea. A whole new area was procured on the North side of the station to make room for approximately 2,500 incoming Marines.

The Marine Corps first took control of the installation as Marine Corps Air Facility Iwakuni in 1958. The station, which is just over 1,300 acres, was officially designated as MCAS Iwakuni in 1962. Its mission includes support of operations, maintenance and supply of tenant units and ships.

…

This is general information from the internet on the Marine Corps Air Station at Iwakuni.  The bold information might suggest that Harvey Oswald was there only as a passing through GI awaiting assignment to somewhere else. 

If this speculation is true then he would have been there for only a short period of time as the Corps figured out what to do with a Marine that who allegedly had a psychotic episode in Taiwan.  Or, that is what folks are supposed to think.

Crossfire by Jim Marrs has good information about Oswald and Iwakuni.

I am swinging between Harvey first or Lee first in Russia.  Harvey has the suicide marks that relate to the suicide incident in Russia.  Who knows about Lee’s suicide scars.  Lee was the one who received most of the military secret training and visits to secret military bases which would make one think that Lee was first in Russia.  Lee didn’t know Russian and would fool the Russians easier as a defector.  As far as I know Harvey was never at Atsugi.

But, because of the scars Harvey is the most likely candidate. 

 

From the autopsy report:

• "Over the volar aspect of aspect of the left wrist there is a transverse 1 3 / 4 inch slightly raised white scar.  Volar means palm side of the wrist and is not visible in the photo."

• However, the same or similar scar can be seen on the right volar side of the wrist in this photo.  And, this is the problem.  There is no such scar described for the right wrist.  What is described for the left wrist is the following.  Which appears to be a suicide scar also.  Why two on one arm?

“Over the medial aspect mid-distal third of the left arm there is a 1 1 / 4 inch vertical scar with cross hatching.”

Medial aspect means the center or middle part.  The mid-distal third of the left arm means the middle of the lower part of the arm.  Up from the wrist and down from the elbow.  This is the area of the medial forelimb vein found generally only in humans.  It is the site of suicide attempts trying to cut this vein in a vertical fashion.  And, then horizontally to make sure this vein is cut. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by John Butler

[Steve Thomas]

On 10/16/2019 at 8:22 AM, John Butler said:

From the autopsy report:

• "Over the volar aspect of aspect of the left wrist there is a transverse 1 3 / 4 inch slightly raised white scar.  Volar means palm side of the wrist and is not visible in the photo."

• However, the same or similar scar can be seen on the right volar side of the wrist in this photo.  And, this is the problem.  There is no such scar described for the right wrist.  What is described for the left wrist is the following.  Which appears to be a suicide scar also.  Why two on one arm?

“Over the medial aspect mid-distal third of the left arm there is a 1 1 / 4 inch vertical scar with cross hatching.”

Medial aspect means the center or middle part.  The mid-distal third of the left arm means the middle of the lower part of the arm.  Up from the wrist and down from the elbow.  This is the area of the medial forelimb vein found generally only in humans.  It is the site of suicide attempts trying to cut this vein in a vertical fashion.  And, then horizontally to make sure this vein is cut. 

http://www.russianbooks.org/oswald/moscow2.htm

 

 

 

I also read what I thought was a pretty good synopsis of Oswald's time in the Far East by a man named Kevin Coogan in the Lobster Magazine:

Tokyo legend? Lee Harvey Oswald and Japan by Kevin Coogan

https://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/free/lobster70/lob70-oswald-and-japan.pdf

 

Oswald's time in Taiwan seems to hinge on whether he actually went there, or stayed behind in a rear echelon unit.

(see pp 27 plus of the pdf document cited above).

 

Steve Thomas

Edited May 12, 2022 by Steve Thomas

[John Butler]

It seems like I typed the wrong info on that last post:

"However, the same or similar scar can be seen on the right volar side of the wrist in this photo.  And, this is the problem.  There is no such scar described for the right wrist.  What is described for the left wrist is the following.  Which appears to be a suicide scar also.  Why two on one arm?"

"Left wrist" should have been left arm.  Substitute left arm for left wrist and the sentence makes more sense. 

The autopsy describes the suicide scar on Oswald's left wrist.  The photo of Oswald shows there is another scar on his right wrist that matches the left wrist in description.  This scar is not described in the autopsy report.

The second left arm scar is described as written above:

“Over the medial aspect mid-distal third of the left arm there is a 1 1 / 4 inch vertical scar with cross hatching.”   This scar lines up with the medial vein in the lower arm.  Sometimes those who are pretending suicide will cut this vein in that fashion in order not to mess up the tendons in their wrist.

I mention these scars because I have no real explanation for them other than noting them.  The vertical cut scar on the left arm could be from some other thing.  But, it is hard to rationalize the cross hatching scars and the vertical scar as anything but a suicide scar from deliberate cutting.  The visible scar on Oswald's right wrist could be from some other thing and not possibly related to suicide.  But, it is a neat scar cut in a regular manner.

Here's something from the internet on suicide and handedness:

"Suicide attempts (94.5%) involved the nondominant hand, whereas in accidents, handedness had no effect on injured side, similar to previous findings.^%8,,%13 The preponderance of injuries to the nondominant hand in suicide attempts might be due to habitual usage of the dominant hand when using a tool such as a knife, leaving the unoccupied nondominant hand as potential target for cutting. "

I've read Coogan before and was not that impressed with his reasoning.  I have Swike's book.  And, ditto.  I was not impressed with his reasoning for a One Oswald theory.

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by John Butler

[Jim Hargrove]

19 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Oswald's time in Taiwan seems to hinge on whether he actually went there, or stayed behind in a rear echelon unit.

Steve,

In addition to the USMC docs I’ve already shown, there is quite a bit more evidence that the Russian-speaking Oswald was indeed in Taiwan/Formosa.  In the 1959 Moscow interview with Priscilla Johnson, her notes indicated he observed Americans in foreign countries: “Like Formosa.  The conduct of American technicians there, helping drag up guns for the Chinese.” 

In her finished article, Johnson wrote that Oswald “had spent 14 months in Japan, the Phillipines, Indonesia, and Formosa as a radar operator….”

A message of November 4, 1959 reported that Oswald “served with Marine Air Control Squadrons in Japan and Taiwan with duties involving ground control intercept."

 

A Naval Message also dated November 4, 1959 further confirms that Oswald was Stationed in Taiwan.

 

“Marguerite Oswald" told the Warren Commission (emphasis added):

This is a picture of Lee with his marines, and it is a special, I think he was doing special work there. I am not familiar--I wasn't told that. But it is different than the other picture. Lee went to many, many a school, gentlemen. He went to the Marine Air Force Base in Biloxi, Mississippi, to schooling. He went to Jacksonville and some others. I remarked, "Your brothers were not sent from here to there like you were." Lee was in Japan, Lee was in Corregidor, Lee was in the Philippines, and Lee was in Formosa. That has not been publicly stated.

In the 1990s, John A. examined at the National Archives “photographs taken by Harvey Oswald of aircraft, troops and bunkers in Taiwan [which] were found by the Dallas Police among his possessions and are now in the National Archives.”

The evidence that one Oswald was in Atsugi, Japan, while the other was on the high seas and in Taiwan/Formosa is substantial.
 

[John Butler]

Jim,

In your recent post you said:

"In the 1990s, John A. examined at the National Archives “photographs taken by Harvey Oswald of aircraft, troops and bunkers in Taiwan [which] were found by the Dallas Police among his possessions and are now in the National Archives.” "

Did Mr. Armstrong make a copy of the National Archive photos mentioned, and if so, could you maybe take the time and post those if you can obtain copies.  One of the things that frustrates me to no end is the mixing of Michael Paine's Army photos and vacation photos into the Oswald photos in the Paine garage.  I made what I thought was a huge error on these photos, but going back and looking at the situation further the error may not have big as I thought.  A lot of these photos are like this one from Jack Swike:

   

This appears to be an Army compound rather than Marine. 

Marine Corps personnel were not required to blouse their boots until 2003.  These are more than likely Army personnel and not Marines.

This might be a photo of Marines on the USS Bexar.  I believe this is an Oswald photo and if not the Bexar then some other Naval transport on one of his sea voyages.

Notice that their boots are unbloused.  This is how Marines looked during that period.

I see the same kind of thing in the 201 file photos.  Michael Paine was in the combat artillery.  In those photos allegedly Paine's I didn't find any involving artillery.  And, no aircraft photos that could not be explained by being in Japan or Korea rather than Taiwan. 

Don't get me wrong on this, I'm not challenging the idea that Harvey Oswald was in Taiwan.  There is way to much evidence saying so and as far as I can see the notion of Harvey Oswald not being in Taiwan is not worth the time debating it. 

What I am doing is trying to get a sense of whose photos, Paine's or Oswald's,  are the military ones in the Oswald 201 file photos. 

I used Swike's photo above because he is one who simply denies that Oswald was in Taiwan or at Iwakuni.  In his One Oswald Theory he simply ignores any evidence not found at Atsugi, Japan concerning Oswald.  Or, others meld the Taiwan information into Atsugi information to a single timeline of Lee Harvey Oswald in their One Oswald Theories.  I'm not impressed by that type of reasoning.

Edited October 17, 2019 by John Butler

[Jim Hargrove]

22 hours ago, John Butler said:

Jim,

In your recent post you said:

"In the 1990s, John A. examined at the National Archives “photographs taken by Harvey Oswald of aircraft, troops and bunkers in Taiwan [which] were found by the Dallas Police among his possessions and are now in the National Archives.” "

Did Mr. Armstrong make a copy of the National Archive photos mentioned, and if so, could you maybe take the time and post those if you can obtain copies.  One of the things that frustrates me to no end is the mixing of Michael Paine's Army photos and vacation photos into the Oswald photos in the Paine garage.  I made what I thought was a huge error on these photos, but going back and looking at the situation further the error may not have big as I thought.  A lot of these photos are like this one from Jack Swike:

John,

John Armstrong went through Oswald’s so-called possessions at the National Archives back in the 1990s.  He believes he was the last private citizen allowed to touch them, but I don’t think he made copies of what he believed were the Russian-speaking Oswald’s pictures of Taiwan, or at least I haven’t come across them in his papers at Baylor University.

But here’s what he has told me about them.  John has spent a considerable amount of time in China.  Although he can read very little Chinese, he says he can easily tell the difference between Chinese and Japanese characters.

The pictures he looked at in the National Archives did NOT seem to be mixed with the ones supposedly taken by Michael Paine, simply because there weren’t that many photos.  And they were classified as “Oswald’s possessions.”  Among the photos were some that showed military tents with Chinese lettering (not Japanese) on signs. These were probably from Taiwan.  I’ll try to remember to ask him for more information.  In the meantime, you might look for photos that have Chinese lettering on signs on or by military tents.

Also, what does it mean for a soldier to “blouse” his boots?

[Jim Hargrove]

On 10/15/2019 at 11:33 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

The reason Jim wants you guys to post your anti-H&L arguments here in this thread is because he knows that your arguments are quite weak and sometimes even ridiculous . If they weren't, you could easily shut him up by posting a few strong ones. But you don't.

You guys need to respond to Jim in some way, and you do so by claiming (without foundation) that H&L evidence has been debunked, and by linking to the supposed debunking. Most people will not follow the links and that is what you guys count on. I'm sure that you, Tracy,  believe that your own articles actually debunk H&L. But you don't believe that Greg's articles do. (If you did believe so, you would have told me how specifically  they debunk the many times I've asked you.)

Jeremy B. goes a step further by trying to shame readers into not believing H&L. And by trying to paint current H&L believers as cult-following idiots. Shame on him.

 

On 10/15/2019 at 11:43 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

To any newbie reading this... I urge you to compare Jim Hargrove's arguments with those who disagree with him. Click on the links to Tracy Parnell's and Greg Parker's H&L debunkings You will see that there is no comparison in the quality of their respective arguments and evidence. Jim wins hands down. That's because Jim has the truth on his side whereas his opponents have only a preconceived notion that the CIA wouldn't have involved two young boys in one of their schemes. Having preconceived notions is not conducive to fact finding. Having an open mind is.

Thanks, Sandy. 

I'd just like to point out that not one H&L critic has managed to make any kind of serious attempt to debunk ANY of the specific points I've introduced in this thread, including the following:

• For the fall semester of the 1953-54 school year,  one Oswald attended Beauregard JHS in New Orleans for 89 school days while the other was enrolled in Public School 44 in New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days.
• For the next semester, one Oswald was at Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while the other Oswald attended Stripling School in Texas.
• One Oswald lost a front tooth during a fight at Beauregard JHS in the fall of 1954, but the Oswald exhumed decades later obviously had all his front teeth intact.
• The Social Security Administration did not include ANY of “Lee Harvey Oswald’s” teen-aged employment income in his “Lifetime Earnings Report” indicating in a cover letter it was including “Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report re employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps.”
• One Oswald departed for Taiwan aboard the USS Skagit on Sept. 14, 1958 and was stationed in Ping Tung, Taiwan on Oct. 6, 1958, at the very same time the other Oswald was being treated for venereal disease at Atsugi, Japan, nearly 1500 miles away.
• One Oswald appeared at the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans while the other was in the Soviet Union.
• One Oswald had a driver’s license and was seen by many witnesses driving a car, and the other Oswald could not drive.
• On November 22, 1963, one Oswald left the Texas School Book Depository on a bus and then a taxi, and the other left in a Nash Rambler.