EVIDENCE FOR HARVEY AND LEE (Please debate the specifics right here. Don't just claim someone else has debunked it!)

[Jim Hargrove]

WHO WAS THE ANONYMOUS CALLER
TO MRS. JACK TIPPIT?

According to the agent in charge of the New Haven FBI office,  the anonymous caller “KEPT REPEATING THE WORD BROTHER IN LAW,” almost certainly a reference to Grace Blair Gardos’s brother Fred Blair, also a proponent of communism.

Is it likely that a neighbor or casual acquaintance of Emil and Grace would have known the couple’s relation to Fred Blair?  Using powerful electronic databases and the internet, it’s easy now to find a few relatively obscure newspaper articles disclosing the relations, but it would hardly be common knowledge in NYC back then.

Who would have known about Fred Blair and his relation to Emil Gardos?  One decent guess would be a family member. 

I’m going to try to find out if Grace Gardos had a sister.  It would be interesting to see if a sister or another reasonably close member of either Emil or Grace’s family lived anywhere near 77th and Second Ave. in NYC.  That might go a long way in making an informed guess about the caller.

Also, a fellow for the NYC Public Library sent me a note saying that my question asking where John Gardos would have attended school had been referred to another department, so things there are still moving there, hopefully.
 

[John Butler]

This something Sandy fished out of ancestry.com some time back.  Grace is 9.  Fred Blair is going under the name of Caroll.  She has about 5 sisters.  Sandy was not able to find much of any thing on the siblings.  Whoever the mysterious caller was, she would have to have known the Gardos prior to 1949-50.  I have found nothing connecting the Gardos or Fred Blair to 77th Street and 2nd Avenue. 

 

 

Grace Blair in the 1920 United States Federal Census

Name:	Grace Blair
Age:	9
Birth Year:	abt 1911
Birthplace:	Wisconsin
Home in 1920:	Fond du Lac Ward 8, Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Street:	Street 52
Residence Date:	1920
Race:	White
Gender:	Female
Relation to Head of House:	Daughter
Marital status:	Single
Father's name:	John A Blair
Father's Birthplace:	Minnesota
Mother's name:	Mary A Blair
Mother's Birthplace:	Wisconsin
Able to Speak English:	Yes
Attended School:	yes
Able to Read:	Yes
Able to Write:	Yes
Neighbors:	View others on page View others on page
Household Members:	Name Age John A Blair 53 Mary A Blair 46 Clemence A Blair 23 Isabelle Blair 21 Clarence Blair 21 Hazel Blair 19 Naomi Blair 17 Caroll Blair 13 Edward Blair 12 Amy Blair 10 Grace Blair 9 Madeline Blair 6

 

[David Josephs]

On 12/1/2019 at 7:34 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

Anyone have any ideas about where to go from here?

Quote

John K:   As I originally discovered a few days ago (and immediately posted), our "Oswald" had taken the time and expense to buy an awfully obscure book: Tibor Kajan's "Circus Maximus", a collection of political cartoons from a dedicated Hungarian Communist Jew, a man who received multiple Kossuth award nominations

Is it possible he had this book all along - that he never BOUGHT it but had it as a family heirloom?

And what about AMALIA GARDOS?   Could that be EMIL's sister taking care of JOHN when Grace and Emil leave? 
(It's Grace {Fred BLAIR's sister} Gardos btw, so AMALIA is still a mystery)  EDIT:  IS AMALIA Grace's middle name?

Furthermore, the town where JOHN GARDOS was born in 1940, is literally on the Michigan/Wisconsin border...

And finally, Fred BASSETT BLAIR's mother's FULL NAME was - Mary AMALIA/AMELIA BASSETT

So Grace BLAIR marries Emil GARDOS yet we have an AMALIA GARDOS living at 217 E 86th - same address as Grace and Emil....

217 E 86th and 325 E 92nd (Pic's apartment) are only blocks from each other with PS155 Yorkville Community School also just blocks away....
(Pic claimed that Lee went to a nearby school but did not like it - he seems to have been off by a street as PS155 is east of 1st on 88th.)

Who, exactly, was AMALIA GARDOS?

Mr. PIC - No, sir; my mother did. I think this is a public school in New York City located on about 89th, 90th Street between Third Avenue and Second Avenue. Lee didn't like this school. I didn't much blame him.

Edited December 12, 2019 by David Josephs

[David Josephs]

The 1940 census for Ironwood, Gogebic Co, MI:
GARDOS, Emil age 34 b. Hungary, occupation Pressman/Newspaper
wife Grace age 29 b. WI
son John age 1 b. MI
They listed their residence in 1935 as Manhattan, NY

I should add that this is listed in genealogy.com under the FRED & NAOMI BLAIR entry

[David Josephs]

On 12/10/2019 at 2:13 PM, John Butler said:

This means Harvey may have been somewhere else for the period 1945-1946 and 1946-1947.

Or is actually 2 years younger than the documentation claims for the real LEE Oswald

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, John Butler said:

I have found nothing connecting the Gardos or Fred Blair to 77th Street and 2nd Avenue. 

A thought.... the address is much more Jewish than Hungarian...  Ruby made a few comments along those lines...

I wouldn't put too much stock in that address as being too meaningful....

Again... If Grace and Emil leave the country without John... who is AMALIA GARDOS living where Emil lived?

[David Josephs]

Last but not least....

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12_RY1gCeKH2beGqLSySuJNSugJlWIRvu/view?usp=sharing  is a link to an article from MADISON WISC describing how 

LEE OSWALD, LIFEGUARD saves a child from drowning in 1961 while Harvey is in MINSK.

[Jim Hargrove]

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

Is it possible he had this book all along - that he never BOUGHT it but had it as a family heirloom?

And what about AMALIA GARDOS? 

DJ,

According to Paul J, Tibor Kajan's "Circus Maximus" was published in 1962 in Berlin.  Otherwise, you ask some fascinating questions. I'll try to do some digging tomorrow.

[Jim Hargrove]

2 hours ago, John Butler said:

Household Members:

Name	Age
John A Blair	53
Mary A Blair	46
Clemence A Blair	23
Isabelle Blair	21
Clarence Blair	21
Hazel Blair	19
Naomi Blair	17
Caroll Blair	13
Edward Blair	12
Amy Blair	10
Grace Blair	9
Madeline Blair	6

Wow!  Most and probably all of the names above (except for John and Mary and Grace herself) are surely the brothers and sisters of Grace Blair (who became the wife of Emil Gardos).  If any of these people lived in NYC, especially in Manhattan near 77th and Second Ave. around the time Emil and Grace lived there, we may well have found the anonymous caller!

I'll start working on this tomorrow.  Megathanks to all for some real research here!

Edited December 13, 2019 by Jim Hargrove

[John Butler]

3 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Is it possible he had this book all along - that he never BOUGHT it but had it as a family heirloom?

And what about AMALIA GARDOS?   Could that be EMIL's sister taking care of JOHN when Grace and Emil leave? 
(It's Grace {Fred BLAIR's sister} Gardos btw, so AMALIA is still a mystery)  EDIT:  IS AMALIA Grace's middle name?

Furthermore, the town where JOHN GARDOS was born in 1940, is literally on the Michigan/Wisconsin border...

And finally, Fred BASSETT BLAIR's mother's FULL NAME was - Mary AMALIA/AMELIA BASSETT

So Grace BLAIR marries Emil GARDOS yet we have an AMALIA GARDOS living at 217 E 86th - same address as Grace and Emil....

217 E 86th and 325 E 92nd (Pic's apartment) are only blocks from each other with PS155 Yorkville Community School also just blocks away....
(Pic claimed that Lee went to a nearby school but did not like it - he seems to have been off by a street as PS155 is east of 1st on 88th.)

Who, exactly, was AMALIA GARDOS?

Mr. PIC - No, sir; my mother did. I think this is a public school in New York City located on about 89th, 90th Street between Third Avenue and Second Avenue. Lee didn't like this school. I didn't much blame him.

David,

Amalia Gardos is Grace A. Gardos.  Grace Amalia Gardos.  Amalia Gardos is the wife of Emil Gardos.  Why she resorted to her middle name might be she didn't want to be publicly recognized.  That's a guess. 

"And finally, Fred BASSETT BLAIR's mother's FULL NAME was - Mary AMALIA/AMELIA BASSETT"  She is the daughter of Fred and Mary Bassett.

I believe she and Emil could have been living in New York as early as 1942.  This was information Paul Jouliffe was interested in if my memory is correct.  Certainly, she was there at 217 East 86th street in  1943.  In 1942:

 

This address of 514 East 83 seems familiar from some place.

And for 1983:

 

"Is it possible he had this book all along - that he never BOUGHT it but had it as a family heirloom?"  This is from another David Joseph post.  And, I think a really significant question based on the following:

This copy of the Communist Manifesto is old.  At 15 cents a copy it must go back to the 1930s.   David said it could be a family heirloom copy of the Circus Maximus?  That was a solid question.  I believe that the Circus Maximus was published in 1962.  But, that manifesto copy is much older.  It could be a family heirloom.

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by John Butler

[John Butler]

6 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

WHO WAS THE ANONYMOUS CALLER
TO MRS. JACK TIPPIT?

According to the agent in charge of the New Haven FBI office,  the anonymous caller “KEPT REPEATING THE WORD BROTHER IN LAW,” almost certainly a reference to Grace Blair Gardos’s brother Fred Blair, also a proponent of communism.

Is it likely that a neighbor or casual acquaintance of Emil and Grace would have known the couple’s relation to Fred Blair?  Using powerful electronic databases and the internet, it’s easy now to find a few relatively obscure newspaper articles disclosing the relations, but it would hardly be common knowledge in NYC back then.

Who would have known about Fred Blair and his relation to Emil Gardos?  One decent guess would be a family member. 

I’m going to try to find out if Grace Gardos had a sister.  It would be interesting to see if a sister or another reasonably close member of either Emil or Grace’s family lived anywhere near 77th and Second Ave. in NYC.  That might go a long way in making an informed guess about the caller.

Also, a fellow for the NYC Public Library sent me a note saying that my question asking where John Gardos would have attended school had been referred to another department, so things there are still moving there, hopefully.
 

Jim,

I just realized that the mysterious caller would probably not be one of Grace Blair Gardos' sisters.  They were the children of John and Mary Blair who were Americans and probably would not have a foreign accent.  However, the wifes of the brothers of Grace Gardos may be of some foreign extract and have accents.  This is guess work I am in the process of checking out.  Isabelle Blair listed in the household of John and Mary is the wife of Clemence A Blair.  I will post more when I finish checking out the rest of the siblings.

Edited December 13, 2019 by John Butler

[John Butler]

Who was this source for reliable information?  There is a older thread on this topic going back to 2015.  On page 4 Stephen Gaal talks about this topic and posted several interesting things.  Including this:

Edited August 20, 2015 by Steven Gaal

CGairtel 10/24/66 entitled ^50L0._ IS-C" furnished

information indicating that the imminent' return^ of the

subject to the United States is anticipated* Chicago should

furnish details to Milwaukee and Springfield*

 

Milwaukee and New York should determine if the ,

subject has returned to the United States. Also determine

whether she is working for the Communist Party an<3 in

what capacity . Springfield should contact SI 131-S ( this is an FBI source in Springfield or nearby which we will get to later) to

determine if he has received any information concerning

the subject's return but this contact must be made cost

discreetly in order to protect CG 5324-S.

 

The Bureau desires to consider some counter-

intelligence action against the subject. In this connection,

Milwaukee is requested to prepare a blind memorandum setting

out all public source data ■ concerning the subject. Handle

promptly in order that any counterintelligence action

approved by the Bureau will be timely, MA <? A<0h^

 

£ - Cnlcago NOT Br '"ORBED .X, ig ^55

 

2 - New York (100-7409) 98 NOV 18 1966 ™

1 - Springfield (100-9497) _

 

KOTK : The subject is married to Emil Gardos, a long-time

CP member who was deported from the United States in the ,

1940* s for communist activity* Subject was also a CP member

in the United States and left to join her husband in Hungary

in 1948. She has lived in Hungary since that time with the

exception of a visit in 1964 during which she visited her

relatives in Los Angeles and Milwaukee, all of whom are active

CP members. Her brother is Fred Blair, Milwaukee CP leader.

Arrangements were made in late 1964 to take some counter- "

The subject of this FBI Grace Gardos.  Could CGairtel be CG airtel and is CG 5324-S ?  And, a male?

FBI informant is SI 131-S is to be contacted by the Springfield FBI.

I thought I had a reference to Mary Blair, Grace's mother living in or near Springfield after John the father had died.  In the process of checking this out again.  I lost this reference and can't find it again.  I guess I imagined it.

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by John Butler

[John Butler]

6 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

WHO WAS THE ANONYMOUS CALLER
TO MRS. JACK TIPPIT?

According to the agent in charge of the New Haven FBI office,  the anonymous caller “KEPT REPEATING THE WORD BROTHER IN LAW,” almost certainly a reference to Grace Blair Gardos’s brother Fred Blair, also a proponent of communism.

Is it likely that a neighbor or casual acquaintance of Emil and Grace would have known the couple’s relation to Fred Blair?  Using powerful electronic databases and the internet, it’s easy now to find a few relatively obscure newspaper articles disclosing the relations, but it would hardly be common knowledge in NYC back then.

Who would have known about Fred Blair and his relation to Emil Gardos?  One decent guess would be a family member. 

I’m going to try to find out if Grace Gardos had a sister.  It would be interesting to see if a sister or another reasonably close member of either Emil or Grace’s family lived anywhere near 77th and Second Ave. in NYC.  That might go a long way in making an informed guess about the caller.

Also, a fellow for the NYC Public Library sent me a note saying that my question asking where John Gardos would have attended school had been referred to another department, so things there are still moving there, hopefully.
 

Jim,

There is a slim possibility that the mysterious caller might be an FBI informant.  Someone who knew and was keeping track of the Gardos before the period 1949-50.  Slim, but something to think about.

[John Butler]

David,

You said,  "217 E 86th and 325 E 92nd (Pic's apartment) are only blocks from each other with PS155 Yorkville Community School also just blocks away....
(Pic claimed that Lee went to a nearby school but did not like it - he seems to have been off by a street as PS155 is east of 1st on 88th.)"

It is strange that all these places (addresses) are just a few blocks from each other.  That's significant, or Google Earth Pro is using some mapping routine that likes to connect these places at about 7/10s of a mile.  The example above has a shorter distance:

I don't know much about New York, but schools including Public Schools were never far from where one lived.  I would suppose if a child went to a school farther than the school nearest him then there would be some kind of reason.

[Jim Hargrove]

8 hours ago, John Butler said:

Jim,

I just realized that the mysterious caller would probably not be one of Grace Blair Gardos' sisters.  They were the children of John and Mary Blair who were Americans and probably would not have a foreign accent.  However, the wifes of the brothers of Grace Gardos may be of some foreign extract and have accents.  This is guess work I am in the process of checking out.  Isabelle Blair listed in the household of John and Mary is the wife of Clemence A Blair.  I will post more when I finish checking out the rest of the siblings.

You may be right, John, but I thought of that reference to a German or Spanish accent before making the post above about Grace’s sisters.  It may or may not disqualify my theory.

The Blair family was living in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin in at least one of the old census reports.  And they may have had some sort of connection to Ironwood, Michigan, where John Gardos seems to have been born.

People in the north woods of Wisconsin often have a discernible accent, similar to the dialect spoken in the movie Fargo.  It can be quite pronounced and might be heard as vaguely German by someone not used to hearing it, such as the Tippits of Connecticut.

I don’t know whether Fond du Lac is far enough north for this dialect to be prevalent, but it might be.  Ironwood, right on the Wisconsin/Michigan border near Lake Superior, certainly is far enough north.  There are other possible explanations for the foreign accent reference, but this one strikes me as the most likely.