Willans weighs in on JFK and Aldo Moro

[James DiEugenio]

Rob Couteau followed up his important article on Gladio with an interview with Philip Willans, author of the illustrious book Puppetmasters.

There, Willans compares the murder or Aldo Moro with the assassination of JFK

We are making progress. Gratifying and thanks Rob.

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-tragic-years-of-lead-puppetmasters-author-philip-willan-talks-about-the-manipulation-of-terrorism-the-global-war-on-the-left-and-the-links-between-the-jfk-and-aldo-assassinations

 

I understand Daniele G is next?

[David Andrews]

Could it be that the terrible things that occurred in Italy in the postwar era were the result of the people responsible for running the show having cut their teeth on the real war, where it was clear that “anything went” in order to win?

I used to teach the Cold War in this vein to community college students (US History II).  It was the lesson I had come away with.  It seems to apply to our domestic intelligence activities in the period as well.

Edited September 26, 2019 by David Andrews

[Anthony Thorne]

An exceptional interview and great work from both Rob and K&K. Such a fascinating subject.

[Rob Couteau]

Thanks. And indeed, Daniele Ganser is next, sometime after the New Year, once he completes his new book, which is about "U.S. imperialism." 

[Paul Brancato]

Great interview. I was somewhat surprised that Willens hedged a bit on whether the Red Brigades were infiltrated by the right. Did I read that correctly? 

[Rob Couteau]

32 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

I was somewhat surprised that Willens hedged a bit on whether the Red Brigades were infiltrated by the right

Hi Paul, Thanks for reading. In his book Puppetmasters, he describes several instances of infiltration that are unequivocal. I think what you're picking up is that he discusses each case individually, and unless there is absolute, unquestionable documentation he will not jump to any conclusions. So he is very scholarly in that sense. For example, in my mind there is no doubt that RB leader Mario Moretti was an agent of the state, and I formed that conclusion largely from reading Puppetmasters. But when asked about Moretti, Willan was careful in stating that while "there are very good reasons to be suspicious of him," "at the same time, there’s the fact that he has spent many years in prison." Very balanced and sticking to the known facts. BTW, I thought you would find the little section at the end about Ronald Stark to be of interest. I think in that short list of questions that he poses as an answer to my inquiry about Stark, he comes closer to the truth about Stark than, say, certain books do which treat Stark at length (such as "The Brotherhood of Eternal Love" by Stewart Tendler and David May, which leaves out much of the more damning evidence connected to the Agency). 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Rob Couteau

[Rob Couteau]

7 hours ago, David Andrews said:

I used to teach the Cold War in this vein

David, when were you teaching and how did the students react to this insight?

[Paul Brancato]

14 minutes ago, Rob Couteau said:

Hi Paul, Thanks for reading. In his book Puppetmasters, he describes several instances of infiltration that are unequivocal. I think what you're picking up is that he discusses each case individually, and unless there is absolute, unquestionable documentation he will not jump to any conclusions. So he is very scholarly in that sense. For example, in my mind there is no doubt that RB leader Mario Moretti was an agent of the state, and I formed that conclusion largely from reading Puppetmasters. But when asked about Moretti, Willan was careful in stating that while "there are very good reasons to be suspicious of him," "at the same time, there’s the fact that he has spent many years in prison." Very balanced and sticking to the known facts. BTW, I thought you would find the little section at the end about Ronald Stark to be of interest. I think in that short list of questions that he poses as an answer to my inquiry about Stark, he comes closer to the truth about Stark than, say, certain books do which treat Stark at length (such as "The Brotherhood of Eternal Love" by Stewart Tendler and David May, which leaves out much of the more damning evidence connected to the Agency). 

Mysterious Ronald Stark - reminds me of Reeve Whitson, mystery man in the Manson saga. Not so much in their obvious personas, but in the way that they both offer a glimpse of some super secret operation. 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Paul Brancato

[David Andrews]

15 hours ago, Rob Couteau said:

David, when were you teaching and how did the students react to this insight?

About 2003-2009 range, and students pretty much took this in with supportive cynicism, meaning a general feeling of, "Of course it would turn out this way."  I would earlier put the Cold War and the defense of western Europe into context by examining American isolationism before and after WW I, the Red Scare of Russian Communism, the extremities of the Axis powers in WW II, and the Russian seizure of eastern Europe plus the loss of China.  But they would also get a good dose of our turn-of-the-century centered imperialism in China, the Pacific, the Caribbean, Mexico and Nicaragua, so they were aware of our acquisitive and ruthless side and our obsession with new frontiers.

I was surprised, though, that many were jaded at the "atomic menace" aspect of the Cold War, having had enough bomb test footage lobbed at them in high schools to really hate rehashing that.  I have to say that the Cuban Missile Crisis left them unfazed, perhaps also from overexposure.  I stopped showing my atomic test video, even though a good "missile gap" discussion was attached, because the reaction made me feel like I was turning into my own high school teachers.  Did students already know that existence, health and societies are fragile, and just enrolled to see how that all came about?  Atrocities of the past -- Indian genocide, conquest of the Philippines -- seemed to move them more.  I should have hit harder on HUAC,  the Rosenberg case and McCarthyism.

Note that academic journals were by then discussing how bookend history survey courses -- US I and II, World I and II -- are already in need of a third installment.  (Colleges are resisting out of worry that one section will be under-attended.)  In US II, I was barely able to get out of Vietnam by the end of the semester, and our present day misadventures were more implied than covered -- and many people had come for what was missing, including older students.  I tried to lead them toward ideas about what we could not cover.  It was eye-opening for me, and personally moving, to learn how many people fresh in from high school had relatives serving in recent or current armed forces conflicts.

Edited September 27, 2019 by David Andrews

[Rob Couteau]

3 hours ago, David Andrews said:

students pretty much took this in with supportive cynicism

Really interesting reflections - thanks for all this.

[W. Niederhut]

Good stuff, indeed, Rob.

One of the most interesting paragraphs in the interview was about the Ford/Kissinger White House threat, "Italy will soon have their Jacqueline."

GHWB was running the CIA during that bloody Ford/Kissinger era.

The Ford/Kissinger/GHWB era CIA murdered Salvador Allende in 1973.  (Another one of those CIA "suicides" committed with a rifle.)

Aldo Moro was murdered by the "Red Brigade" in July of 1976.

Edited September 27, 2019 by W. Niederhut

[Rob Couteau]

 

8 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Jacqueline

“An official visiting Rome with [President Ford] told us: ‘I see darkness. There’s a Jacqueline in the future of your peninsula.” 

Yes, I agree. IMO that is by far the most haunting of all of Mino Pecorelli’s sibylline utterances. For me, the subtextual resonance of that statement points to the parallels between JFK's and Moro's assassinations. It almost invites you to start digging for them. BTW the Nixon / Haig involvement in the coups in Italy is a very interesting topic as well but we didn't go into this in the interview. But he covers it in his book. I should add that Mr Willan was quite generous with his time. We spoke for an hour and fifty minutes.

[David Andrews]

45 minutes ago, Rob Couteau said:

Really interesting reflections - thanks for all this.

I added some later recollections, thanks.

[Rob Couteau]

 

Just now, David Andrews said:

many were jaded at the "atomic menace" aspect of the Cold War

What you said reminded me of my own experience in the first grade, during the Cuban Missile Crisis. At the height of the crisis, the nuns of St Mary's brought each of the classes into the basement, to practice fall-out drills. They had us lined up and crouched against the cinder-block wall with our heads between our knees, our palms over our ears, and our eyes shut tight. The basement featured louvered windows near the top of the wall, which looked out to street level. I still remember the words of our wise mentors, dressed so appropriately in mournful black habits: "And boys and girls, the most important thing, which you must remember, is: Don’t go near the windows!" With this sage advice, we were assured that everything would turn out fine and dandy. Years later when I tutored English in Paris, I had a student from Russia. When I told her this story, she related nearly identical experiences she had while in school in Moscow. And we both laughed at the absurdity of it all. Those are the sort of history lessons you tend to remember better than anything learned in traditional schools.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Rob Couteau

[James DiEugenio]

WN: One of the most interesting paragraphs in the interview was about the Ford/Kissinger White House threat, "Italy will soon have their Jacqueline."

From Ford, who told the premier of France, an "organization" killed JFK.

Edited September 27, 2019 by James DiEugenio