Research from Lamar Waldron

[Guest Rich Pope]

6 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

I'm a little curious here.

If Marcello wasn't as big as so many others in the national network of mob bosses, why would RFK go farther in dealing with him punitively than almost any other boss; actually kicking him physically out of the country and dropping him off in the dregs of Guatemala?

If Marcello was no big deal in the Mafia hierarchy, why bother?

 

The key is Marcello WAS huge, but he was so behind the scenes, he didn't stick-out like Giancana and Roselli did.  He laid-low and in return, died at a ripe old age in his bed instead of getting taken-out.  

[Guest Rich Pope]

4 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Part of it may have been that the FBI had documents available showing that Marcello had entered the US illegally through Guatemala, and so could be swiftly deported there,  But I agree - why do it if Marcello did not compel the DOJ's attention?

Plus it was a shortsighted move by RFK, since Marcello was, after a little inconvenience, returned to the US by his or his peers' soldiers, and his operation was not appreciably dismantled in his absence.

What's happening here is that there is a false idea that Marcello wasn't a big deal in the hierarchy of the mob.  That needs to be revisited because not only has Lamar Waldron shown this to be wrongheaded, many others have shown it as well.  Youtube Carlos Marcello or read other researchers and you find Marcello was a big fish even though his behavior didn't show it.

[Guest Rich Pope]

5 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

Jim's wrong.  He's a nice enough guy but he's not right all the time.

Ron,

I've come to the conclusion you're just a jerk and I have no intentions of ever listening to anything you have to say.  It isn't like I'm making this stuff up.  We've got other researchers showing Marcello was a bigger fish than previously believed.  They are writing books, giving interviews (see youtube under Carlos Marcello) etc...People are starting to wake-up to the idea that they have to re-evaluate their previous positions on the Mafia and how they were in bed with the CIA back in the day.  

[Guest Rich Pope]

2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

If Marcello wasn't the head Mafia boss of Texas, Louisiana and immediate surrounding area, who was?

Who else oversaw Texas which was a huge area of profit in Mafia business such as drugs, gambling, prostitution, extortion, etc? New Orleans and Louisiana as well.

I assume what we are being told is that the Chicago outfit had more control over Texas than Marcello?  We know Ruby dealt with both.

My guess is when Ruby went to New Orleans and did any questionable business there, he dealt with Marcello's men, not Giancana's or Trafficante's.

A point I have made before in postings beginning years ago is how much our country was infected with corruption and especially organized crime corruption most of this last century well beyond the understanding of the majority of Americans and even our main stream history book record.

I believe organized crime corruption was one of America's top 4 or 5 legacies during this time.

The Apalachin meeting in 1957 shouted the hugely widespread power and influence of  organized crime in America at that time.  100 heads of the branches of the Sicilian Mafia met there including those from Montreal, Cuba and Italy.

Think about this incredible reality of the reach and growth of organized crime in America in the 1950's this gathering exposed. These leaders represented a massive criminal corporation that had branches in that many cities and areas of the country.

Many large city police forces were so compromised with corruption by the Mafia,, anywhere from 10 to 30% and more of their police forces were on the take at various times as were many hundreds of Judges on every level as well as mayors, city council members, D.A.s and other elected officials.

Our largest labor union and many others had been taken over by them.

RFK knew that organized crime had become one of America's biggest problems as related in his book "The Enemy Within." He correctly stated that the power and influence of this huge cancer of corruption truly was a major threat against our democracy.

And the most devilish pact of all took place when our own intelligence departments decided to work with elements of organized crime to combat their common enemies.

In many ways, this legitimized the Mafia and allowed them to flourish even more.

Hoover for whatever reasons also fed their growth through refusing to recognize and reign them in.

Presidents have left them alone and even worked with them.

When Nixon pardoned Jimmy Hoffa, it was so obvious he was compromised.

Nixon's VP Spiro Agnew was completely owned by them.

When we discuss and debate the JFK assassination we cannot pretend that all this organized crime corruption had no connection at all to at least the cover-up and maybe the elimination of witnesses who were considered the most threatening to this....imo.

 

 

 

Good point.  Marcello was in charge of Lousiana, Mississippi and Texas.  You see, these detractors can claim Marcello wasn't involved in Texas but they can't tell you who was.  They may know a lot about JFK etc...but they don't know squat about the mob back in the 50's and 60's.

[Guest Rich Pope]

2 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

Marcello?  He was nobody - nobody, I tell ya.  How do we know this?  Because an assistant district attorney under Garrison, John Volz, supposedly told Jim Di he was nobody (to quote Jim, "Marcello was not that powerful, period").  Here in Conspiracy World, that's good enough for us.  I'm confident that in the Conspiracy World version of reality tough-guy Jim would've walked up to Marcello, slapped him in the face and said "You're nobody, punk.  Get outta my way before my people shove you outta my way."

Volz actually did prosecute Marcello.  However, there have long been persistent rumors of Volz' own corruption and Mafia ties.  They are described here, in an article concerning Volz' mysterious appointment as U.S. Attorney:  https://thelensnola.org/2012/12/18/with-letten-gone-tis-the-season-for-intrigue-and-wild-rumors/.

In any event, here in the Real World "not that powerful" Marcello was about as powerful as they get.  There's a nice four-part summary here that also touches on the JFK assassination rumors, https://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/out-of-africa-the-story-of-new-orleans-mafia-boss-carlos-Marcello.  I quote:

Within thirteen years, Carlos would be possibly the wealthiest Mafiosi in the United States and most certainly one of the most influential. His criminal organization would be generating between one and two billion dollars each year, making it the biggest industry by far in Louisiana. As the leader of the "first Mafia family" in America, he enjoyed unique privileges; for example, he could "open his books" and "make" men into his organization without the approval of the Commission. His control and dominance of the Louisiana Mafia was incontestable. The late Vincent Teresa, a Mafia thief, and enforcer, working out of the New England mob, said of Marcello's crime family:

"It was very tight. They're all in deathly fear of Carlos Marcello because he's got the law, all the politicians in the state, right in his hip pocket. You just can't go against him."

The Marcello control of people at all levels was significant to his domination of the Louisiana Mafia. He ruled this as a despot, with independence and insularity that was unique across the twenty-four or so other criminal groups that made up the national syndicate of American-Italian mob families. Joseph Valachi, a former soldier in the Genovese family of New York, was the first "made" 'member of any Mafia family to turn informant and publicly testify as to the inner working of the Mafia in America. When he was asked at the McClellan Hearing what he knew about Marcello, he replied, "Louisiana? I don't know a thing except they don't want visitors. Once I was going to see the Mardi Gras and I checked it out with Vito (Genovese), which I was supposed to do if I took a trip. He said, 'Don't go.' No explanation, just 'Don't go.' They didn't want anybody there. And I was told if I ever had to go to Louisiana, Vito would have to call ahead and get permission. Genovese himself had to get permission. It was an absolute rule."

Although he was in federal prison, serving time on drug trafficking charges, Vito Genovese was at this time, allegedly, the most powerful mob boss in America. Yet even he would tip his forelock in deference to "The Little Man in New Orleans."

He was in fact, bigger than Ben Hur.

By 1966, Carlos Marcello had been the chief executive of his criminal dynasty for almost twenty years. Through bribery, corruption, intimidation and an inherent ability to control situations, he was probably the wealthiest and most influential Mafia leader in the United States. He had succeeded in getting his way, and getting away with everything, all his life. His political acumen was only matched by his judicious public relations.

Fount-of-misinformation Jim says the real power in Louisiana was one "Joe Carolla."  I have been unable to find any reference whatsoever to a Joe Carolla, but here is a short description of Marcello's connection to the Carolla family, http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish/Dark_Side_4/Out-of-Africa-The-Story-of-New-Orleans-Mafia-boss-Carlos-Marcello.shtml:

Since the death of Police Chief Hennessey, the Louisiana Mafia had grown and blossomed under at least two, possibly three leaders. Carlo Matranga had undoubtedly led the family into the twentieth century. He ruled until the early 1920's when he stepped down and retired. He died at the age of 86 on October 28th, 1943. At this point, his place was taken either by Corrado Giacona or Sylvestro (Sam) Carolla.  ...

Carolla, a swarthy, sleepy-eyed hood, had spent a two-year spell in jail for murdering a federal narcotics agent in1932. The sentence had been abruptly terminated with an early release from the ubiquitous Governor O.K. Allen, by appointment, pardoner to the mob. Sam made his fortune smuggling booze and drugs during the 1920s and 30s, and reached a position of such power, he was controlling the municipal government through bribery and corruption. He was low-key and his name did not appear in any newspaper until 1923. Because he had never taken out citizenship, however, he became vulnerable to deportation proceedings. They dragged on for years, but eventually, he was convicted and flown out of the country on May 30, 1947 to relocate in Sicily, his birthplace.

As Carolla was counting down his last days in America, Marcello was working the family members, promoting himself as the natural successor. He had emerged among the capis, or crew chiefs, who ran the organization, as the most probable candidate. His wealth was growing at a remarkable velocity. Money was pouring in from narcotics, gambling, the slot machines and his racing wire service. He opened a casino, calling it the New Southport Club on the East Bank at 1300 Monticello Road, off the Mississippi River Road near the New Orleans Jefferson Parish line. It soon became enormously popular and hugely profitable. …

Late in the evening of May 5th, 1947, a group of men gathered together in a room at the back of The Black Diamond, on North Galvez Street, a nightclub in a seedy part of New Orleans that catered almost exclusively for black people. The mob used this for a rendezvous in the belief that it would reduce the chance of surveillance. On this particular night, they were wrong and agents of the FBN (Federal Bureau of Narcotics) were checking out the expensively dressed white men who disembarked from limousines at the rear of the club and disappeared inside.

Among those noted here that night, were Tom Rizzuto, Nick Grifazzi, Frank Lombardino, Joe Capro and Anthony Carolla, son of Sam; also along were Joe Poretto, Nofio Pecora, and Carlos with brothers Vincent, Joseph, Peter and Anthony. Jake and Nick Marcello, Carlos' nephews were also at the party. Although supporters of Anthony Carolla put forward his name, they were outvoted by Carlos' men, and by the time the meeting was over, he was the newly appointed head of the Louisiana Mafia.

Although the Bureau of Narcotics was on his trail, at this point in time, the FBI was not. Sixteen years later, on July 11th, 1963, an FBI report suggests that Marcello was not the boss of New Orleans. Someone else was.

His name was Leoluca Trombadore. Born in Corleone, Sicily, in March 1888, he emigrated to America, arriving in New York in 1907 when he was 19.  He moved to Louisiana when he was in his mid-twenties, married, had a daughter, was known by everyone as “Mr. Luke,” and lived in New Orleans until he died there, in 1957. He was a second cousin to Giuseppe Morello, the New York-based head of what we know today as the Genovese Crime Family. If Trombadore was the boss, he kept a low profile, and there is little, if any, empirical evidence to support the claim.

[Marcello] Brothers Joe and Vincent were made into the family. Joe became the underboss and Vincent was a feared street soldier. The other four brothers may have been Mafiosi or maybe stayed as associates. There is no evidence to confirm this, although a number of sources claim Salvatore “Sammy” Marcello was a soldier in the family and often acted as the bodyguard and driver to his big brother. Fifteen months after Marcelo’s elevation to the head of the Louisiana Mafia, the FBI began to track his activities and his name appears for the first time in an FBI file on October 15th, 1948.

Anthony never forgot his displacement from what he obviously believed was his rightful ascension, and nineteen years later would bring his grievance up before a national Mafia Commission meeting at a restaurant in New York.

By "Joe Carolla," Jim presumably means Anthony Carolla.  Here is a short description of Anthony Carolla's 1966 attempt to gain greater power during Marcello's reign, https://mafia.wikia.org/wiki/Anthony_Carolla.  He was unsuccessful but would finally assume control in 1990, after Marcello had been sent to prison, suffered a series of strokes and ceded power to other family members.

On September 22, 1966, Carolla and other high ranking Mafia members attended a meeting at an Italian restaurant called La Stella, which was located at 102-111 Queens Boulevard in Forest Hills, Queens, New York. They were gathered around a table in a private dining area in the basement, and while awaiting their first course, New York police raided the building and arrested everyone. There were thirteen of them and all were members of the Mafia. Who had summoned the meeting, and how it was organized and what its purpose was has never been disclosed. The group were all taken to a nearby police station, questioned, searched and then released on personal bail of $100,000 each.

Although there has been speculation about why the meeting was called, it has been alleged that it was to resolve matters relating to the New Orleans crime family. Carlos Marcello, the then current boss of New Orleans, sat at the table with his brother Joe, his underboss, along with Carolla and Frank Gagliano, two of his senior family members. Carolla had apparently been seeking a greater share of the New Orleans mob's action, citing seniority within the family and his family birthright. His father had been Sylvestro Carolla, who had run the family until deportation in 1947. Anthony was also apparently seeking approval to take over the New Orleans Mafia when Marcello eventually retired. Apparently the ruling of the meeting favored Marcello. The meeting was referred to by law enforcement and the press at the time as "Little Apalachin."

It wouldn't be until the 1990s that Carolla would finally assume control of the New Orleans crime family following that fateful meeting in New York in 1966.

So who ya gonna believe, Conspiracy Capitalist Jim's recollections of what a dubious Garrison attorney supposedly told him about a non-existent Joe Carolla or the Real World historical record?  Alas, I'm pretty sure I know the answer.

Jim asks, "Volz was the late federal prosecutor who was assigned to the Marcello case.  He told me that  Marcello was not even the leading mobster in the area.  That was Joe Carolla.  Now if he knew that, then how could Blakey and Billings not know it?"  http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26094-i-dont-think-lbj-did-it-i-know-he-did/?tab=comments#comment-407667

Oh, I don't know - possibly because IT OBVIOUSLY WASN'T TRUE?

And so it goes in Conspiracy World.

 

 

Lance,

You're full of crap.

[Guest Rich Pope]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

I can't really answer your question Joe.  

The problem being that, as Mike Beschloss once said, there is no College of Sam Giancana Advanced Studies.  Therefore, certain authors are free to write what they will about certain Mafia Dons and how powerful they are.  Blakey and Billings took Marcello to the outer limits in that regard I thought.

Larry probably knows more about this than I do, being much closer to the scene.

https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKmarcello.htm

I have faith in this website and how good of a job the moderator does.  The fact that you don't know the answer to Joe's question means you don't know very much about this topic.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Rich Pope said:

Lance,

You're full of crap.

Oddly enough, that seems to be the consensus about you!  Ergo, does the fact that you think I'm full of crap mean that I am in fact not full of crap?  Does the fact that you think I'm full of crap on the matter of Marcello mean that you agree with Jim Di, who thinks you're full of crap on the matter of Marcello?  Diagram that out and get back to me, will you?  Your insightful comment is the functional equivalent of "neener neener" or "your old lady wears army boots."  It makes no substantive point.  To be effective, you need to point out the errors in my crap.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Rich Pope said:

https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKmarcello.htm

I have faith in this website and how good of a job the moderator does.  The fact that you don't know the answer to Joe's question means you don't know very much about this topic.

Ah, now I see - Jim Di and I are both full of crap, even though we each think the other is full of crap!  Spartacus, however, is not full of crap - is that right? - although I don't see anything on the site that is at odds with anything I posted.  This crap stuff is really confusing.

The Mafia had the motive (in spades) and means (in spades) as well as the chutzpah (in spades) to assassinate JFK if they had wanted to do so.  A Mafia assassination thus has the superficial plausibility that many conspiracy theories have.  The problems are (1) the Mafia would not have bothered with a patsy and (2) the Mafia would not have touched a loose cannon like Lee Harvey Oswald with a ten-foot pole (Santos Trafficante, when asked how he would respond if told that Ruby was a Mafia employee:  "I'd say the Mafia needs a new personnel director").

Edited October 11, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

The key is Marcello WAS huge,

 

42 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

What's happening here is that there is a false idea that Marcello wasn't a big deal in the hierarchy of the mob. 

Wait a minute, that was EXACTLY the point of my lengthy post!  Of course, knee-jerk reactions without reading or understanding what has been posted are par for the course here, so you should fit right in.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Kathy Beckett said:

I am getting pretty sick and tired of seeing Forum members called " fools" "jerks", etc, just because some don't believe what others believe.

The name calling stops now, and the condescending attitude to the other members is gonna stop as well , or somebody's gonna be looking for a new home. Stop it.--NOW.

 

Maybe, but I'll bet $5 right now the pretty obvious Prime Offender never finds himself "looking for a new home."

I did, however, delete a portion of a recent post that I thought was unduly snarky, even though the Prime Offender had repeatedly referred to me as Peyote, as being the legal equivalent of a used care salesmen, and all the usual ad hominems in which he specializes - on a thread in which I had not even participated, no less.

Isn't this about the 50th time this sort of warning has been issued?  I remember one "absolutely final last straw" warning a couple of years ago,  It will be interesting to see if this one has any more teeth or any more effect on the culture of the forum than the other 49.  For it to work, there can't be two or more different standards for offenders on the basis of their views of the assassination (LN vs. CT) or perceived rank within the pecking order.  That's too obvious and ultimately self-defeating.

I'm not exempting myself.  I'm naturally sarcastic and, after 40 years of practicing law, I'm a veritable Ph.D in snarkiness - which is why I generally don't mind the give-and-take unless it's just completely gratuitous, mindless and baseless.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Guest

[James DiEugenio]

Weren't we all blessed the day Lance signed up?

John Volz was a federal prosecutor at the time of the Marcello case.   Volz had electronic surveillance on Marcello for a very long time, something which RFK did not have on him.  Volz had a team of FBI investigators working on the case since it was a multi agency task force to finally put the guy away.  In addition to all the files of that task force, Volz would get summaries of the surveillance on Marcello frequently.  That surveillance was enough to put Marcello away. Some corrupt prosecutor eh?

As I said above, there is no School for Advanced Studies of Sam Giancana or Trafficante or Marcello. But I should note Marcello was not at Apalachin and reportedly was not on the overall national committee. So any writer can go ahead and use any kind of source they want to in order aggrandize their argument. Some even say that those two lacks mean that Marcello was actually bigger than the overall mob, which is kind of ridiculous if you have ever been to New Orleans. John Davis was famous for doing this.  In my studies, what happened here is that people like Davis and Blakey--Mob advocates in the JFK case from day one--wanted to use Oswald's presence in New Orleans to further their agenda. Thus they aggrandized Marcello into a figure that he really was not.

Since I just humiliated him on another thread, the Prescott Lawyer tries to do that kind of thing here.  But this is the very problem I pointed out over there.  Volz had as close as you are going to get to real references and real information in his case against Marcello. Its the stuff you can use in court.  And it worked.

Anyone can see the difference I would think.

PS For anyone here to somehow say that I am the one who uses smears and slurs against them is the utter height of hypocrisy.  From almost the day he signed on the Arizona lawyer has used every single slur, every single smear, every cheap characterization of the work of myself and others that is in the book. Here is the latest example just a few minutes ago after he claimed he really was not the one responsible:

Right - I invented it!  The basic definition would be "One who milks the JFK assassination for financial gain by peddling himself and his wares to wide-eyed Conspiracy Game enthusiasts, typically purporting to be engaged in legitimate historical research while actually focused almost entirely on self-promotion and serving up as 'research' a potpourri of speculation, innuendo, half-truths and fantasy, all garnished with just enough historical facts to give the dish a superficial veneer of plausibility."  Something like that.  Sort of the JFK equivalent of a Prosperity Gospel televangelist.

Can you believe that one?  I am making money off the JFK case?  LOL, ROTF.  BTW in the above, he managed to leave out  out what I consider the worst smear. The most personally  insulting one is comparing the JFK case to UFO's.  And his constant portraying of me and others as somehow manic, tin foil hat nuts with saliva pouring out of our mouths as we type, well that has been what he has been up to for months on end. There is a doctrine in international law that states there cannot be a judgment drawn against one nation if the condemning nation does the equivalent.  For someone  as full of insults and invective as Lance to start weeping now and pointing fingers would get him thrown out of that court.

Edited October 11, 2019 by James DiEugenio

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

John Volz was a federal prosecutor at the time of the Marcello case.   Volz had electronic surveillance on Marcello for a very long time, something which RFK did not have on him.  Volz had a team of FBI investigators working on the case since it was a multi agency task force to finally put the guy away.  In addition to all the files of that task force, Volz would get summaries of the surveillance on Marcello frequently.  That surveillance was enough to put Marcello away. Some corrupt prosecutor eh?

Volz was appointed U. S. Attorney in 1977.  Marcello and others were indicted in 1981 in connection with the bribery of state officials involving insurance contracts (his conviction was overturned in 1989).  This was penny ante stuff in the overall scheme of Marcello's empire.  It's not clear to me what relevance anything you are saying has to the point that Rich Pope was making about Marcello's power at the time of the assassination of JFK in 1963.  (I am not saying Volz was corrupt.  Others suggested as much, as outlined in the article I cited and the book it cites.  And that alleged corruption did relate to mob ties.)

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Since I just humiliated him on another thread, the Prescott Lawyer tries to do that kind of thing here.

Oh, you did?  I missed that part.  I will state, for the umpteenth time, that I not only retired but resigned from the bar two years ago.  I am not a lawyer, Prescott or otherwise.  As I clearly stated on the other thread, I have not even been in Prescott in almost ten years.

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

For someone  as full of insults and invective as Lance to start weeping now and pointing fingers would get him thrown out of that court.

Oh, goodness, I'm not weeping.  I actually enjoy slinging insults back and forth, provided it is done with some modicum of wit.  I was simply acknowledging Kathy's warning and making the point that, to be effective, it must be applied even-handedly and across the board.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Here is the latest example just a few minutes ago after he claimed he really was not the one responsible:

You just added that to your post, I see.  By no means did I "claim I really was not the one responsible."  Repeated warnings about membership behavior were issued long before I'd ever heard of this place.  I do not claim at all that I do not dish out as good - or better - than I get.  I merely point out that you are, IMHO, the Prime Offender, yet you always posture yourself as being above this sort of thing.

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

The most personally  insulting one is comparing the JFK case to UFO's. 

We are simply going to have to disagree that this is insulting.  I say this as a 60-year card-carrying, highly informed member of the UFO community and a UFO experiencer.  The parallels between the UFO community and the JFK community are startling.  They have been remarked upon by observers from a variety of scientific and academic disciplines.  The conspiracy mindset that psychologists and social scientists have documented is prevalent in both communities.  Both are fruitful fields for legitimate research - but also veritable magnets for the unbalanced and credulous and the con artists who prey upon them.  I daresay that if I were to analogize the UFO community to the JFK community on a UFO board, they would be screaming foul.  As I have said repeatedly, I believe that greater familiarity with other "weirdness" communities would be very beneficial for someone whose focus and experience has been limited to a single such community.  You would see that the dynamics are essentially identical across all such communities.

[James DiEugenio]

Take a look over that the "I know LBJ did it thread";  I took him out on CE 399, to the point he would not even refer to John Hunt's work.

The guy does not even know when he is out, I used to do the same to DVP and then I would post this as a metaphor to remind him of what had just happened because Zab didn't know he was out either:

 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by James DiEugenio

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Take a look over that the "I know LBJ did it thread";  I took him out on CE 399, to the point he would not even refer to John Hunt's work.

The guy does not even know when he is out, I used to do the same to DVP and then I would post this as a metaphor to remind him of what had just happened because Zab didn't know he was out either:

Is it just me, or do others have the sense that Jim didn't exactly take Kathy's warning seriously?