Cliff Varnell Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Robert Wheeler said: I never made that claim. There are many Liberal Episcopalians. It's fine Cliff. Just disregard. The joke I made at your expense was apparently too subtle. Go back to calling people Fascists. Thank you, I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, John Butler said: "Trump is a traitor and he's going down." In the last 3 years, I have seen nothing in these madcap, fake MSM / Democrat scenarios that would indicate Donald Trump is a traitor or a criminal. Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine in return for a favor -- blame Ukrainians for the 2016 election meddling, and launch phony investigations into Joe Biden and his son. It's a crime to solicit foreign influence in an American election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Robert Wheeler said: ...and use some HTML in your post profile, the mess you have there stretches the thread unnecessarily. No, it doesn't. Look at the two quotes in my sig line. My profile doesn't stretch the post at all. Is this all you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Robert Wheeler said: Screen Shot You left this out: "I'm afraid we were misled...All the critics, myself included, were misled very early. I see that now. We spent too much time microanalyzing the details of the assassination when all the time it was obvious, it was blatantly obvious that it was a conspiracy...The tyranny of power is here. Current events tell us that those who killed Kennedy can only perpetuate their power by promoting social upheaval both at home and abroad. And that will lead not to revolution but to repression...[T]he interests of those who killed Kennedy now transcend national boundaries and national priorities. No doubt we are now dealing with an international conspiracy. We must face that fact -- and not waste any more time microanalyzing the evidence. That's exactly what they want us to do. They have kept us busy for so long..." (emphasis added) Vincent Salandria, as quoted by Gaeton Fonzi in The Last Investigation "The real history of the world is a history of competing conspiracies." Ishmael Reed Bio: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20940 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 The intellectual bankruptcy of RussiaGate-denial is on full display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Berube Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said: The FBI "smeared and terrorized" the 2016 Trump campaign? With two news cycles on RussiaGate over the last 5 months? How does anyone make such an absurd assertion? Only by a misinterpretation by a reader apparently. What Jim actually wrote was, " In fact, Trump had now begun an effort to expose what he thought was a “Deep State plot”. One that was designed to terrorize and smear his presidency from the start" What "he thought", meaning Trump. If Clinton won the election we would've likely never heard of the Russia Gate story because Hillary wasn't going to make nice with Russia anyway. If Trump was able to neutralize relations (as he may have without russia gate), it's conceivable that the regime change operations in Syria and Ukraine would be stopped or drastically reduced/normalized. Instead of focusing on two news stories beforehand, maybe examine the near constant coverage AFTER she lost, certainly not a US-Russian detente atmosphere. And then you cite the Steele dossier as some kind of evidence. Sorry, I think believing in the credibility of that at this point is misguided at best. This has nothing to do with my personal political beliefs, can you say the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 42 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: Nobody gives a shoot about Mark Zaid or the whistle blowers he represents. They are moot. The people the first whistle blower talked to are themselves testifying. As a frequent defender of Donald Trump's RussiaGate-denial, James DiEugenio likes to bash Democrats, in this case Pelosi, Schiff and the entire impeachment effort. So what if Mark Zaid is representing the whistleblowers, one of whom may be John Bolton who foresaw that Giuliani,Trump's attorney and shadow Secretary of State, was a walking grenade who would blow up everyone, maybe including Trump himself. The chances increase every day that a growing number of Republican Senators will join the Democrats in more than a two-thirds vote to impeach Trump. Trump's disastrous decision on Turkey, Syria/Kurds has scared the hell out of everyone. What will Trump do next when he makes a snap decision on the spur of the moment late at night that would have even graver consequences? When that happens, stop the world I want to get off. Chances are I would be joined by most persons on the planet... but not by Jim DiEugenio who will be a Trump supporter to the bitter end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Dennis Berube said: Only by a misinterpretation by a reader apparently. What Jim actually wrote was, " In fact, Trump had now begun an effort to expose what he thought was a “Deep State plot”. One that was designed to terrorize and smear his presidency from the start" What "he thought", meaning Trump. If that were the case he should have put a comma between ""'Deep State plot'" and "One." Over on the Roger Stone thread over on the Trump forum Jim said he believed RussiaGate was designed to "cripple or impeach" Trump. 1 minute ago, Dennis Berube said: If Clinton won the election we would've likely never heard of the Russia Gate story because Hillary wasn't going to make nice with Russia anyway. I agree 100%. 1 minute ago, Dennis Berube said: If Trump was able to neutralize relations (as he may have without russia gate), it's conceivable that the regime change operations in Syria and Ukraine would be stopped or drastically reduced/normalized. Instead of focusing on two news stories beforehand, maybe examine the near constant coverage AFTER she lost, certainly not a US-Russian detente atmosphere. That's a different issue. The claim made by Jim and others is that there was a "deep state" plot to deprive Trump of the election, when the truth is the "deep state" installed him. 1 minute ago, Dennis Berube said: And then you cite the Steele dossier as some kind of evidence. No, I'm merely pointing out that it wasn't used to defeat Trump before the election. I said nobody cares about the Steele Dossier. 1 minute ago, Dennis Berube said: Sorry, I think believing in the credibility of that at this point is misguided at best. This has nothing to do with my personal political beliefs, can you say the same? Again (there is value in repetition), nobody gives a flying f about the Steele Dossier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 After Mueller report: What ever happened to the ‘Steele dossier’? Why We Wrote This A 2016 dossier of alleged intelligence about the Trump campaign and Russia is getting renewed attention, partly because it’s barely mentioned in the Mueller report. But with dueling partisan narratives, it’s worth looking at what that does and doesn’t mean. https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2019/0429/After-Mueller-report-What-ever-happened-to-the-Steele-dossier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Berube Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: Over on the Roger Stone thread over on the Trump forum Jim said he believed RussiaGate was designed to "cripple or impeach" Trump. Well it certainly looks like Jim was right then doesn't it? Regardless of who designed it, that is most definitely what RussiaGate has done. 5 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: the truth is the "deep state" installed him. Please, useless rhetoric with little real evidence, the deep state installs all presidents in one form or another since JFK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) Jim IS "A Trump supporter until the bitter end"? LOL, that's a good one Mr Caddy. To get back to the real world, this is not Russia Gate anymore boys and girls. Or maybe you did not notice? See, as Matt Taibbi pointed out, RG has fallen apart with the Steele Dossier, and Mueller's rather unimpressive performance before congress. As the FBI officer said in a phone call, there was no there there. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/russiagate-fiasco-taibbi-news-media-826246/ This is now moving to Ukraine, which if you do not know, is not in Russia. Its not led by Putin. Its a neo Nazi lawless state given birth to by the USA and EU and also Joe Biden, the late John McCain and VIctoria Nuland. If you had read the piece, I noted almost all of this. Ukraine is a different kettle of fish completely. Since Russia Gate fizzled, now its Ukraine and it looks to me like it might be a case of we get him before he gets us. There is an IG report coming out pretty soon on the origins of that faux RG scandal. It should be interesting. FYI, I have never voted for a Republican in my entire life. For any office. Since I moved to California, I vote Green in all presidential elections since the nineties when Pete Wilson gave the state away to the Dems with prop 187. I would vote for Tulsi right now if the election was tomorrow because she is the only Democrat radical enough for me and she stood up to that phoney Kamala Harris. So please Doug, please do not make me put you in the ignore club with CV. Please read what I write, and the links are also worth reading. You will learn something. Edited October 16, 2019 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Dennis Berube said: Well it certainly looks like Jim was right then doesn't it? Regardless of who designed it, that is most definitely what RussiaGate has done. Trump is getting impeached for UkraineGate, not RussiaGate., Trump brought RussiaGate on by himself by firing James Comey. 6 minutes ago, Dennis Berube said: Please, useless rhetoric with little real evidence, the deep state installs all presidents in one form or another since JFK You're denying the fact that James Comey re-opened the Hillary e-mail investigation 11 days before the election? Are you denying that this generated non-stop Hillary bashing on cable news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) BTW, did Paul B answer my question? I would have thought I would have known him if he had been around back then in 1992-93. Edited October 16, 2019 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Interesting to read the Kennedys and King article about Zaid being a Company man, but it seems like an overgeneralization to assume that the Ukraine-gate whistleblowers must, therefore, be involved in a "Deep State" conspiracy to undermine Trump's truly disastrous Presidency. For one thing, Trump has repeatedly denied publicly (at the Stinky in Helsinki and elsewhere) that Putin's GRU cyber warriors are hacking our elections! Two interesting Russian military documents that seem to explain the chess game that Putin has been playing on the world stage are; 1) the Gerasimov Doctrine of asymmetrical cyber warfare, (to divide and weaken foreign societies along racial, ethnic, and religious lines) and, 2) Alexander Dugin's 1997 strategic treatise about Russian control of Eurasia-- weakening the EU and U.S./NATO alliance, aligning Russia with Iran, Syria, and the Kurds, and destabilizing Turkey. I believe that Donald Trump is a compromised pawn (or rook?) in Putin's geopolitical chess game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said: See, as Matt Taibbi pointed out, RG has fallen apart with the Steele Dossier, and Mueller's rather unimpressive performance before congress. As the FBI officer said in a phone call, there was no there there. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/russiagate-fiasco-taibbi-news-media-826246/ Taibbi is full of bovine offal. He wrote: <quote on> You know what was fake news? Most of the Russiagate story. There was no Trump-Russia conspiracy, that thing we just spent three years chasing. The Mueller Report is crystal clear on this. He didn’t just “fail to establish” evidence of crime. His report is full of incredibly damning passages, like one about Russian officialdom’s efforts to reach the Trump campaign after the election: “They appeared not to have preexisting contacts and struggled to connect with senior officials around the President-Elect.” Not only was there no “collusion,” the two camps didn’t even have each others’ phone numbers! <quote off> https://themoscowproject.org/explainers/trumps-russia-cover-up-by-the-numbers-70-contacts-with-russia-linked-operatives/ Trump’s Russia Cover-Up By the Numbers – 272 contacts with Russia-linked operatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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