Mark Zaid, JFK and Trump

[Douglas Caddy]

Sondland was acting on Trump's orders

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/sondland-said-he-was-acting-on-trumps-orders-aide-told-investigators/ar-BBWRN0G?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=UE07DHP

[Cliff Varnell]

On 11/15/2019 at 12:31 AM, Jeff Carter said:

Ukraine was a region of Russia for far far longer than it has ever been a separate identity. The history is more complicated and fluid than simplistic “ethnic cleansing” narratives. Current NATO policy is based entirely on ignoring Russian identity in Crimea. Internal Ukraine politics in 2014 were akin to red state/blue state divide. The blue states overthrew the elected red state government and demanded the red states fall in line, and one red state region held a referendum and left, and two red state regions took up arms and declared federated autonomous powers but are not seeking separation.

Jeff, your ability to mis-characterize historical fact is astonishing.

The Ukraine has had a separate ethnic identity and language for centuries.  Their culture is arguably more influenced by the Poles than the Russians.

And how do you dismiss the Holodomor slaughter of millions of ethnic Ukrainians 1932-3 as "simplistic 'ethnic cleansing' narratives"?

Red state/blue state?

https://geovisualist.com/2013/12/09/regional-differences-in-ethnicity-and-language-in-ukraine/

The only ethnic Russian majority province in Ukraine is Crimea.  They don't crack 40% in eastern Ukraine.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Cliff Varnell

[Bob Ness]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

C'mon Bob.

The USA sends special forces all over the world to conduct proxy actions.

That does not mean the USA is invading the country.

And you want to make like you do not understand that?

Do you really think that if the Russians launched a full scale invasion of Donbass, they could not overrun the area?  With all the Russian sympathizers in their ranks already.

The Russians could launch a full scale three pronged attack by air, land and  sea.  

Obviously, Putin does not think its worth that much. Either in money, men, or public image. What he probably is angling for is a separatist type of state e.g. Quebec.

You guys, geez, anything to avoid admitting that what Biden and HRC started back in at the beginning of the Obama administration and culminated in 2014 was an utter disaster.  And this is what it has led to.  (And OMG, never ever mention Libya and Honduras, also on HRC's watch.)

 

Just curious Jim. Would this cause you to take up arms (rhetorically or literally) if this was going on at your house? This isn't new. He did it in Crimea also.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/11/14/170k-in-east-ukraine-get-russian-passports-under-putins-fast-track-program-a68169

More than 170,000 residents of separatist-controlled territories in eastern Ukraine have become Russian citizens under President Vladimir Putin’s fast-track program since it launched six months ago, authorities said.

Putin simplified the path to Russian citizenship for an estimated 3.7 million residents of the pro-Russian Donetsk and Luhansk “people’s republics” in April, angering Ukraine and the United States. He later expanded the fast-track Russian passport offer to residents of neighboring areas in eastern Ukraine that are under Kiev’s control.

[Cliff Varnell]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

C'mon Bob.

The USA sends special forces all over the world to conduct proxy actions.

The US doesn't mass it's forces on the border of Mexico or Canada.

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

That does not mean the USA is invading the country.

 

The way to threaten an invasion is mass forces on the border.

Why is Zelensky so intent on arming his troops with anti-tank missiles?

 

[W. Niederhut]

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

C'mon Bob.

The USA sends special forces all over the world to conduct proxy actions.

That does not mean the USA is invading the country.

And you want to make like you do not understand that?

Do you really think that if the Russians launched a full scale invasion of Donbass, they could not overrun the area?  With all the Russian sympathizers in their ranks already.

The Russians could launch a full scale three pronged attack by air, land and  sea.  

Obviously, Putin does not think its worth that much. Either in money, men, or public image. What he probably is angling for is a separatist type of state e.g. Quebec.

You guys, geez, anything to avoid admitting that what Biden and HRC started back in at the beginning of the Obama administration and culminated in 2014 was an utter disaster.  And this is what it has led to.  (And OMG, never ever mention Libya and Honduras, also on HRC's watch.)

 

Jim,

     It sounds like North Korean state media shares your low opinion of Joe Biden.

     NOKO declared today that Joe Biden is "in the end stages of dementia" --  "a rabid dog" who needs to be "beaten with a stick" in order to "depart this life."

     When I first read this NOKO press release, I mistook it for an unusually literary Trump tweet or a Fox News headline... 🤪

Edited November 17, 2019 by W. Niederhut

[Douglas Caddy]

1 hour ago, Robert Wheeler said:

 

Conspiracy enthusiasts should appreciate this and I am not saying any of this is purposeful, just interesting.

So I clicked on the link.

An ad popped up for Best Friends Animal Society.

”adopt a puppy etc.....”

The Best Friends Animal Society was formed by dissident members of The Process Church. Son of Sam, possibly Manson; an interesting conspiracy in the serial killer milieu. 

In any case, Ed Opperman, and I believe others have noted that the Church was incorporated in Louisiana by the the lawyer played by John Candy in JFK. (Not recalling the name right now.)

It’s an interesting topic to waste a few hours on if you have the time.

Thanks for the Link Doug Caddy, you unintentionally posted something interesting.

Still waiting for an Alien update in the meantime.

 

The link accurately leads to the article as noted. You must have still had a prior ink in your browser about the Process Church.

[Jeff Carter]

Ambassador Yovanovitch made very clear US policy has been focussed on moving Ukraine out of Russia’s orbit - that is, remove it from, as Stephen Cohen describes, “a civilization shared for centuries by Russia and large parts of Ukraine” - and attach it to the EU economically, and militarily to NATO’s “security architecture” so to serve as a “force multiplier” (her words) against Russia. In other words, it was a deliberate conscious policy to, on the other side of the world,  upend an ages-old status quo and replace it with tension and simmering conflict. That’s extremely bad policy and I don’t know how anyone can defend it.

French President Macron has arranged, in the interests of the Minsk Accords, a meeting between Putin and Zelensky in a few weeks to discuss means to finally realize those agreements and move towards resolution. Ambassador Yovanovitch emphasized that US policy on Ukraine does not support this process. Hostility inside Ukraine to Zelensky’s initiative was identified with the defeated former president Poroshenko, as well as the right-wing militias whose interests are represented by the Interior Ministry. The Interior Minister, Avakov, was described by Yovanovitch as “a good partner to the United States.”  Much of her testimony yesterday was scripted to appeal for political support in the US for a continued policy of tension and conflict in alliance with fascist militias who trace back to Nazi atrocities in the 1940s.

[James DiEugenio]

34 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:

Ambassador Yovanovitch made very clear US policy has been focussed on moving Ukraine out of Russia’s orbit - that is, remove it from, as Stephen Cohen describes, “a civilization shared for centuries by Russia and large parts of Ukraine” - and attach it to the EU economically, and militarily to NATO’s “security architecture” so to serve as a “force multiplier” (her words) against Russia. In other words, it was a deliberate conscious policy to, on the other side of the world,  upend an ages-old status quo and replace it with tension and simmering conflict. That’s extremely bad policy and I don’t know how anyone can defend it.

French President Macron has arranged, in the interests of the Minsk Accords, a meeting between Putin and Zelensky in a few weeks to discuss means to finally realize those agreements and move towards resolution. Ambassador Yovanovitch emphasized that US policy on Ukraine does not support this process. Hostility inside Ukraine to Zelensky’s initiative was identified with the defeated former president Poroshenko, as well as the right-wing militias whose interests are represented by the Interior Ministry. The Interior Minister, Avakov, was described by Yovanovitch as “a good partner to the United States.”  Much of her testimony yesterday was scripted to appeal for political support in the US for a continued policy of tension and conflict in alliance with fascist militias who trace back to Nazi atrocities in the 1940s.

Bob,

As Jeff Notes above, it has been the object of American foreign policy at least since the Reagan/Bush era to

1.) Crack up the USSR

2.) To move NATO as close as possible to Russia

This was done by any and all means.  This neocon policy did two things:

a.) It sawed off Gorbachev from that narrow twig he was operating on, where he tried to slowly evolve the USSR in an open state and restructure the economy without going through a traumatic process that would destabilize the country  economically and politically and socially

b.) It brought on the drunken fool Yeltsin who was all too helpful in inviting the neocons inside.  This realized Gorbachev's worst fears. It destabilized the country in every way.

Therefore the Richard Perle types got their wish, and cracked up the USSR and moved NATO to the Russian frontier.  And the neocons did not care what happened in Russia or Ukraine along the way.  Like reawakening the Bandera gang, reigniting anti Semitism, clubbing and hatcheting the Rondi, shooting civilians in Kiev, ransacking of the Russian economy by a bunch of plutocrats etc.

In the face of all that lying, killing, and ransacking, you somehow say that Putin did a bad thing with fast tracking passports. 

We really have lost all balance and reason in this.

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

William,

With all due respect, can you show me where I ever said Joe Biden was a rabid dog with dementia?

 

 

[Cliff Varnell]

46 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:

Ambassador Yovanovitch made very clear US policy has been focussed on moving Ukraine out of Russia’s orbit - that is, remove it from, as Stephen Cohen describes, “a civilization shared for centuries by Russia and large parts of Ukraine” - and attach it to the EU economically, and militarily to NATO’s “security architecture” so to serve as a “force multiplier” (her words) against Russia. In other words, it was a deliberate conscious policy to, on the other side of the world,  upend an ages-old status quo and replace it with tension and simmering conflict. That’s extremely bad policy and I don’t know how anyone can defend it.

Ages old status quo?  Like when Ukrainian nationalists fought the Red Army during the Russian Civil War?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_War_of_Independence

Status quo like the forced starvation of millions?

https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor

 

[Cliff Varnell]

26 minutes ago, Robert Wheeler said:

Her parents Gehlen connection is coming. The crowd is working on it.

The fascists are desperately buzzing as their Dear Leader slowly goes down.

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Jeff Carter said:

Ambassador Yovanovitch made very clear US policy has been focussed on moving Ukraine out of Russia’s orbit - that is, remove it from, as Stephen Cohen describes, “a civilization shared for centuries by Russia and large parts of Ukraine” - and attach it to the EU economically, and militarily to NATO’s “security architecture” so to serve as a “force multiplier” (her words) against Russia. In other words, it was a deliberate conscious policy to, on the other side of the world,  upend an ages-old status quo and replace it with tension and simmering conflict. That’s extremely bad policy and I don’t know how anyone can defend it.

 

        There's no question that Stephen F. Cohen is a great Russian history scholar, but he has been widely criticized of late, even in academic circles, for his curiously unabashed Putin apologetics.   Is he getting paid by Putin's propaganda establishment?  Is The Nation?

        Where is Cohen's criticism of Putin's usurpation of the Russian Constitution, his demolition of a free press, murder of journalists, suppression of opposition political parties, and his obvious subversion of liberal democracies in Europe and the United States?

       Let's be honest, please.  Putin is a totalitarian leader of a nationalist, quasi-fascist police state.  (He even has his own Russian version of the Hitler Jugend.)   He runs the RF with a cadre of former KGB and military generals,  (including Gerasimov) Russian mafia bosses, and billionaire oligarchs.

       I agree with the point by Cohen, James DiEugenio, et.al., about the overly aggressive actions of NATO and the U.S. in polarizing Ukraine and Russia, but let's also recall that the entire USSR was hopelessly corrupt after 1991-- including the Russian Federation.  The former Soviet republics all degenerated into mafia style oligarchies.   In that political vacuum, the West erred by too aggressively intervening to prevent a Russian-controlled reconstruction of the Warsaw Pact and USSR.

      As for Cohen's idealization of the Rus in Ukraine, he sounds almost like an old Trotsky-ite of sorts.  7-10 million ethnic Ukrainians were murdered by Stalin's police state in the Holodomor of 1932-33.  And many Ukrainians have never approved of Russian hegemony in Ukraine, and attempts to control their institutions (even in some Orthodox Christian circles.)  As bizarre as it sounds, some Ukrainians, initially, even viewed the Nazi Wehrmacht as an army that might liberate them from the horrors of the Stalinist yoke.  I was told that even our late (Carpatho-Russian) ROCOR Archbishop of San Francisco had initially supported the Nazi invasion of the USSR.   (That illusion about the Wehrmacht vanished quickly during the blitz krieg of Operation Barbarossa, when the Nazis committed indiscriminate bombing and mass murder of Soviet citizens.)

       Cohen also seems to ignore the widespread opposition of many ethnic Ukrainians to the ultra-corrupt, Russian-aligned Yanukovych regime.

       Yanukovych was always a crook and a thug, whose unfortunate election was orchestrated by the machinations of Paul Manafort and Kremlin-aligned oligarchs in Ukraine.  In fact, Yanukovych was, ultimately, accused of high treason by the Ukrainian government for inviting Putin to invade the country.

Edited November 17, 2019 by W. Niederhut

[James DiEugenio]

William:

Again, with all due respect, you buy Robert Conquest and Dick Pipes.

I don't.

I prefer Mark Tauger and Steve Cohen.

The first two advanced their careers by citing the Neocon aims and abandoning true historical research and analysis.

The second two have not done that and it has hurt them career wise.   

The Neocons won. The winners write history for the masses.

 

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

William:

Again, with all due respect, you buy Robert Conquest and Dick Pipes.

I don't.

I prefer Mark Tauger and Steve Cohen.

The first two advanced their careers by citing the Neocon aims and abandoning true historical research and analysis.

The second two have not done that and it has hurt them career wise.   

The Neocons won. The winners write history for the masses.

 

https://www.newcoldwar.org/stephen-f-cohen-on-the-u-s-russiaukraine-history-the-media-wont-tell-you/

Maybe there are fascists in Russia, but we’re not backing the Russian government or Russian fascists. The question is, and it’s extremely important, “Is there a neo-fascist movement in Ukraine that, regardless of its electoral success, which has not been great, is influencing affairs politically or militarily, and is this something we should be worried about?”

The answer is 100 percent yes. But admitting this in the United States has gotten a 100 percent no until recently, when, finally, a few newspapers began to cite Kiev’s battalions with swastikas on their helmets and tanks. So you’ve gotten a little more coverage. Foreign journalists, leaving aside Russians, have covered this neo-fascist phenomenon, which is not surprising. It grows out of Ukraine’s history. It should be a really important political question for Western policy makers, and I think it is now for the Germans. German intelligence is probably better than American intelligence when it comes to Ukraine—more candid in what it tells the top leadership. Merkel’s clearly worried about this. </q>

4 and a half years later we should still be concerned with Ukrainian fascists.  And Russian fascists.  And American fascists.

Zelensky seems worthy of our support.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukrainian-pm-minister-attended-neo-nazi-concert-in-kyiv/

Zelensky has clashed with members of the far-right, including the Azov-linked National Corps, over his decision to allow a troop withdrawal as part of efforts to reach a negotiated peace in the long-simmering conflict in Ukraine’s east.

“Listen, I’m the president of this state. I’m 42. I’m not some loser,” Zelensky snapped at a soldier affiliated with the group during a visit to the front-lines this weekend.

Last month, Zelensky’s government fired controversial historian Volodymyr Viatrovych, the head of the Ukrainian Institute of National Memory and one of the driving forces behind Ukraine’s policy of rehabilitating World War Two-era nationalists who had collaborated with the Nazis.  </q>

Edited November 17, 2019 by Cliff Varnell

[Douglas Caddy]

Trump Demeaned Bureaucrats. This Is Their Revenge.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/16/opinion/sunday/trump-impeachment-hearings.html