Clint Hill riding at the back of the presidential limo

[John Butler]

It appears from various films and photos Clint Hill would mount the back of the p. limo before the vehicle made a turn.  He would dismount shortly thereafter.  In the following photos I am not sure of the scene locations such as Main in the Powers film.  I am not that familiar with Dallas Streets, particularly from over 50 years ago.

The Dallas Cinema Associates film shows that for most of the film Clint Hill is on the SS security vehicle.  He said he mounted the p. limo about 4 times, maybe more.  This moving up to the p. limo seems to match the turns on the motorcade route.

 

It appears Clint Hill thought there would be an assassination attempt at the turns on the motorcade route.  I believe one can say this due to his behavior.  Did he know about the assassination plan?  Or, did he figure out something from the events of that day or from the events from prior days?  His concerns for Jackie Kennedy compelled him to do so. 

Hill said he was told to stay off the limo by SS agent Boring because he was told that by the president in Tampa, FLA.  This has been debunked thoroughly.  Read Vince Palamara's comments earlier.

This must be so since I don't see Hill disobeying a superior's direct orders.  The other SS agent responsible for the president, Jack Ready, did not see what Clint Hill was seeing.  Or, he was obeying orders from someone from the on scene SS detail.  It could be Ready saw the same things as Hill, but wasn't willing to risk his life for a president that was secretly despised.  Whatever the case, he made no efforts to mount on the back of the p. limo that was seen by anyone.  Only Clint Hill was showing a nervousness and worry that can be said he was thinking there might be an assassination attempt and he needed to interpose himself between Jackie Kennedy and an assassin firing from the rear as the vehicle made a turn. 

Edited November 2, 2019 by John Butler

[Joe Bauer]

It's been mentioned here that Hill stated he was ordered off JFK's limo.

Then why would he violate that order 4 times in the course of the motorcade parade?

Was Hill that willfully disrespectful of his superiors orders or even of JFK's? Or was he simply that obsessively over-protective of Jackie to the point of disobeying such orders?

Did any agent riding shotgun on the Queen Mary besides Hill ever once consider going as far as Hill did in this endeavor in their mutually protective mission of protecting not just Jackie Kennedy's backside but JFK's as well? 

One must at least wonder why Hill's enthusiastic commitment in going farther in this protective measure never inspired his security detail counterparts to do the same regards JFK himself ?

On a side note, looking at the motorcade route one can't help notice the clear illogicality of having JFK's limo turn off through TWO slowing 90% turns from a massive huge crowd packed Main Street onto the sparsely attended Houston/Elm Street dog leg, even taking into consideration of this risky action making an expressway entry to the Trade Mart easier.

Especially considering the many sniper possibilities Dealey Plaza offered with an accompanying slowing down and 90% turning of JFK's car twice under three unchecked open window high rise buildings ( with the Texas School Book Depository being a fully facing head on one for several seconds ) followed by hundreds of feet of elevated and unsecured tree canopy camouflage hiding places just feet from the limo on the right.

If I was planning security for JFK and his open Limo top downtown parade ride I believe I would have caught these clearly more obvious physical shooter threat dynamics in the Dealey Plaza turkey shoot fish bowl as I made a test run of the motorcade route through there.

And I have no training in that field at all!

While reading Vince's comprehensive research compendium of so many SS agents relating their glowing appraisals of JFK and his thoughtful and respectful treatment of them and their instructions, I still have to consider the juxtaposed reality that many agents hated JFK for his racial stances, his indulged and reckless philandering and perhaps his actions regards the Bay Of Pigs and General Walker and the Mississippi school integration riot, etc.

And we also know that several agents had their own troubling issues such as over-drinking, violating agency rules such as curfews and drinking, marriage problems and as most everyone else in underpaid employment positions, debt problems.

These very real human character and stress issues regarding at least some of JFK's Praetorian guard snaps you back into a more reasonable reality view of their over-all credibility in their statements regards JFK and their views and true feelings of him publicly and privately.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

On 11/1/2019 at 8:04 AM, Joe Bauer said:

I've always believed SS agent Clint Hill was in love with Jackie Kennedy.

He often spent more time with her than his own wife ( his marriage was strained ) during his years long assignment to be Jackie's closest personal bodyguard.

His account of such in his book "Mrs. Kennedy And Me" reveals observations of her that imo are so detailed in a personally close reflective way that they reveal feelings of intimacy on his part more than a strictly platonic and detached professional relationship.

Hill was close to Jackie K. in very personal times when she would be relaxed and herself versus the highly formal doings of her first lady duties under the scrutiny of the press.

Yet it is clear that a real connection was established between them early on. In the course of a car ride to Virginia, with Mr. Hill sitting in the front passenger seat smoking and the first lady alone in the back, she suddenly asked that the car pull over. The agent expected to be reprimanded for smoking, but she promptly invited him to move into the back seat with her and asked him to light a cigarette for her. That was the first of many private conversations they had in the car, relates Mr. Hill. He gives no details of such chats.

What he does describe is how they learned to communicate with their eyes at public events. The agent would send a questioning look checking her mood, and he recalls how her eyes would respond with a grateful acknowledgment. And he acknowledges he would “give anything” to hear once more her trademark amused exclamation of “Oh, Mr. Hill!” when he reacted with his customary impassivity to what he saw.

He also wryly recalls the occasion when she tried to teach him to play tennis. His ferocious style with a racquet drove her to observe tartly that the objective of the game was to hit the ball to her so she could hit it back to him.

 

Sharing cigarettes and private conversation in the back seat of Jackie's chauffeured car together?

Hill's missing of Jackie's soft voice ( some have described her manner of speaking as sexy ) saying.."Oh, Mr. Hill?"

Playing tennis together and Jackie being playfully amused at Hill, even one time?

Playfully picking up John John on recreational walks to the beach or wherever with Jackie and no JFK present which was often?

Riding along with Jackie on sailboat ventures on the bay?

Exchanging "knowing glances" with Jackie in crowd visiting events?

Traveling the world in exotic locations with and close to one of the most beautiful young women on Earth? 

Sounds at least somewhat similar to the

Kevin Costner/Whitney Houston script in Costner's

film "The Bodyguard."

I traveled in those indulged luxury circles for just a very, very

brief time in my 30's.

When I had to come back to

my low wage hard physical work reality life

existence back here in the states, I realized how seductive that lifestyle could be. And my luxury indulged experience lasted just two to three weeks!

I wonder if Hill struggled at all leaving that lifestyle and coming back down to Earth after JFK's assassination.

I could never have been that personally close to the beautiful early 30's Jackie for years ( to smell her perfume ) and not have fallen in love with her myself. Heck, I was in love with her anyway even being a universe away from her.

Did any other SS agent leave the Queen Mary to mount the back of JFK's limo during the Dallas motorcade which Hill did ... 4 separate times !?

It seems Hill was much more security concerned ( specific to Jackie Kennedy in protecting her left rear)  and quick to exhibit this concern physically versus his Queen Mary SS counterparts and their non-action in the JFK limo rear mount leaping area.

Wealthy and famous women have had affairs with their bodyguards throughout history.

Most well known is Patty Hearst.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Joe Bauer

[John Butler]

20 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Wealthy and famous women have had affairs with their bodyguards throughout history.

Most well known is Patty Hearst.

Joe,

From your comments I think we have many of the same questions concerning the behavior of Clint Hill.  I re-read the above comment and realized I had not seen or heard that information before.  Particularly, the bit about sharing cigarettes in the back of an auto.  Even in providing those details Clint Hill is still being deceptive in his description of those events.

Here is something I just realized reading through this material.  Take another look at this route map of the motorcade on Main, Houston, and Elm.

Clint Hill made 4 or more trips to the p. limo prior to getting to Main and Houston and Houston and Elm intersections.  A good question to ask is why didn't he move up to the p. limo at the Main and Houston intersection?  Or, why didn't he move up to the p. limo at the Houston and Elm intersection?  These were acute turns onto another street and absolutely the best places for sniper fire.  I had used this image before in discussing the best places to shoot in Dealey Plaza:

This makes me think it is more then likely he knew something was in the works and about where the assassination would take place.  The earlier mountings of the p. limo may have been staged to show he was on the job and he simply didn't see where the real assassination would take place. 

Here is the famous Altgens 7 which shows Clint Hill on the back of the p. limo.  You can see him mount the back of the p. limo in various films.  Although I think this image is a fraud I will use it any way to illustrate the point I am about to make:

The point here is Clint Hill did not make an attempt to mount the p. limo prior to the assassination spot and seems to be slow or not moving toward the p. limo until the last shot is fired.  As the altered photo above concerning shooting places in Dealey Plaza illustrates, he might have had prior knowledge most likely gained from his fellow agents.

If that is true then he knew an assassination attempt was coming and his detail mates probably knew that also.  I know this is speculation, but it is reasonable speculation.  I am not alone is this notion in suspecting that there is something fishy about the behavior of the presidential security detail, particularly the agents in the follow up vehicle to the p. limo.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by John Butler