Ron Bulman Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Anthony Thorne said: What do they have to fold for? Trine Day was publishing conspiracy stuff long before they published Baker’s stuff. If Kris hadn’t found that hot pic of Baker to stick on the cover of ME AND LEE I doubt this whole chain of events would have started. That noted, if someone can mock up a backyard photo of Oswald with a rifle, Kris should spend a few days with Photoshop putting together the 70’s adventures of Baker with Elvis Presley. He’d get a few more book sales and keep the operation running. Anyway, why does CAPA have to fold? Maybe tell the guests to show it a bit more love next year or something. If it does fold it would be grimly funny to see the only remaining conference be one where Baker rules the roost and everyone pays lip service to a relationship and narrative that clearly never happened. I’m guessing Walt Brown views the Trine Day Baker stuff with a shrug. Skyhorse also publishes a few dumb books alongside their many good ones. Judy later dated Elvis? Maybe this performance was for her. Watch it to the end in full screen. A classic. He might have been on speed. Edited January 21, 2020 by Ron Bulman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) B Kelly can blame whoever he likes but for starters they should look at themselves first. And this is not a thing from just last year.'s conference, it is the result from the last three at least. Criticism was shared back then already, but they chose to ignore it all and not learn from their mistakes. If (!) they break up, and I hope they do not, then they should assert blame to themselves first. Got one question though! Why is C. Wecht speaking about the same ol' again and again? Does he produce any new research? I think not, yet he is invited every year to yack some more. _____________________________________________________________ Vince you are repeating the same old tripe from the other post, it doesn't work to defend people's actions from joining her tribe by saying well there is not much left to attend and speak at. Well there is this thing called the internet! And then there is the opportunity to do this by yourself. Not that hard to do so! I bet you can drum up some proper researchers to speak and make their case, I mean you have been going to these for thirty years already, so you must have plenty of experience. Then the Trine Day matter, you keep saying that it was more an event by them than JVB. The truth is it is a JVB thing, unless you can prove otherwise. I am repeating myself posting this, so here we go again. Thanks to Greg Parker for this. I will tell you what our beef with all this is in a nutshell, it is the fact that on one side people talk about the injustice of the assassination and its aftermath etc. Yet at the same time side with someone who is of questionable repute in this, and I and others are sick to death of it. Come on Vince send back the award as that would be the right thing to do. Edited January 22, 2020 by Bart Kamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Clark Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Vince Palamara said: I guess I am thinking about a few people who make statements like "no one associated with CAPA should be caught dead near her conference!" Epic fail---several board members are! And Walt, perhaps Judyth's number one critic, doesn't mind the publisher association. No biggie to me, but some would say "ewww-why publish on 'her' label?" If folks are given a choice of conferences that are going on at the same time, that both charge an expensive entry fee (which I understand, venues cost money...sometimes speakers need costs covered) then I would say they are competing entities. I see Wecht, Newman, and Aguilar are speaking in Kansas City now for Denton and company...anywhere there is a podium huh? Unbelievable...its no wonder CAPA is doomed. The main issue here is that Judyth Baker is a provable fraud and huckster who has shylocked her way into the position she is in now. Soliciting thousands of dollars from her cult like following of believers by claiming everything from deadly spider bites, needing surgery she never got, a motorized scooter she doesn't use, and CIA sponsored hacking of her computers and bank accounts...its laughable. And anyone associating themselves with her or her conference, should be ashamed. Would you speak at the James Files Conference Vince? How bout the Loy Factor Conference? Over the years it has been the "fringe" conference, supporting views of the LBJ did it crowd, Oswald in the doorway, limo stop, Z film alteration, watch finding, and every other debunked and disproved theory you can imagine. Now, because Judyth/Trine Day aligned herself with the "JFK Historical Group", another laughable ragtag group of questionable researchers with an official sounding name, they attract more speakers who previously wouldn't have given her the time of day. Speaking at her conference or associating yourself with her, is validating her existence. The pathetic excuse that CAPA didnt ask me to speak, but she did, and I got a nice shiny award for the mantle...doesnt fly, it's a choice. CAPA has no one to blame but themselves for this debacle...and people like you that choose a podium over a chair, have no one else to blame for the rise of Judyth Baker leading the conference scene in Dallas...enjoy that for years to come! Edited January 21, 2020 by Rob Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T. Patrick Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 On 1/20/2020 at 2:20 PM, Rob Clark said: JFKHistoricalGroup conference in April in Kansas City...Really guys? Just to point this out, the Project JFK guys (Quinlan/Edwards/Knight) and the JFK Historical Group guys (Denton/Tatro) that are running the KC conference in April are not tied to The JVB and TrineDay for this conference. TrineDay has been invited. Kris puts out a LOT of good work (I'd point to Vince Palamara's books and The Franklin Cover-Up by Nick Bryant, for example). I think having TrineDay there is a positive thing. But the Spring conference is completely different from the November one and is not, in any way, affiliated with JFK Conferences LLC. They aren't banning anyone from attending as a conference attendee (I'm not sure any of the conferences do, do they?), but The JVB has not been invited to speak. She is also not affiliated in any capacity with the Spring conferences held in the Midwest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T. Patrick Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 18 hours ago, Anthony Thorne said: I’m guessing Walt Brown views the Trine Day Baker stuff with a shrug. Skyhorse also publishes a few dumb books alongside their many good ones. This is true, and if Skyhorse would come, Im sure theyd also be invited to both Dallas conferences and the April conference in the Midwest. As Vince Palamara says, there are so few outlets to speak, share, mingle, and write, some have to take advantage of any of them that are open. We could definitely just shut each other out completely, so that one of the factions "wins." But then, what has really won? Now, 60-70% of the ears and eyes are gone so that the 30-40% can conquer? Then what? High school kids learn differently about the JFK assassination other than Oswald shot Kennedy? College kids won't be taught that people believe in conspiracies because they arent emotionally mature enough to handle that random bad things happen? The History Channel will stop doing anti-conspiracy shows? In 25 years, this may be a different ballgame anyway because of researcher age and proximity from 1963. If we are still amidst a flood of material coming to market (good, bad, and ugly), yet less than the 1991-1994 era when shelves were flooded with JFK assassination books, then let the flood come. In 25-30 years, there may be very few people left or who care enough to turn on the water anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Clark Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) On 1/21/2020 at 3:52 PM, S.T. Patrick said: Just to point this out, the Project JFK guys (Quinlan/Edwards/Knight) and the JFK Historical Group guys (Denton/Tatro) that are running the KC conference in April are not tied to The JVB and TrineDay for this conference. TrineDay has been invited. Kris puts out a LOT of good work (I'd point to Vince Palamara's books and The Franklin Cover-Up by Nick Bryant, for example). I think having TrineDay there is a positive thing. But the Spring conference is completely different from the November one and is not, in any way, affiliated with JFK Conferences LLC. They aren't banning anyone from attending as a conference attendee (I'm not sure any of the conferences do, do they?), but The JVB has not been invited to speak. She is also not affiliated in any capacity with the Spring conferences held in the Midwest. Hi S.T.! I would just point out, Trine Day is responsible for publishing and promoting Judyth's books as fact and gospel. I would go so far as to say she is their "cash cow". I would also say they publish books from other questionable authors such as Ed Haslam, St. John Hunt, Chauncey Holt, Christopher Fulton, and James Tague or anyone else they feel they can make a buck off of. The point I was making about the conference in Kansas City in relation to CAPA, is that at least 3 CAPA board members so far are speaking there. And they wonder why their organization is imploding...yet they remain indignant and quick to blame other researchers for their demise. (See attached picture) As for Judyth, she was at the Midwest Conference last year as a featured speaker, she is featured prominently on their website, they obviously endorse her and her story. The reason she is not back this year is likely because she could have sued Denton and company for her supposed fall last year, but instead decided to bilk her followers for thousands of dollars to pay for her "injuries" Edited September 10, 2020 by Rob Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence Schnapf Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 I resigned from CAPA board because a board member continued to speak at JVB's conference despite the fact it was obvious that the organizer of her conference was trying to undermine the CAPA conference by inviting CAPA speakers after they were announced and then expanding their conference to compete with the CAPA conference. She is nothing more than a Forrest Gump of the JFK assassination who has a sad need to insert herself into historical events. If one saw the first draft of her book, they would know the truth about her. Her "memories" had to be "corrected" by researchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T. Patrick Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Rob, you make some good points, always, and as a friend, I take everything you have to say seriously. Being an Illinoisan, I can say that I also know David Denton, a fellow Illinoisan who is semi-local to me, well. I am not at liberty to go into the specifics in a public forum, but I can say that the "fall" last year in Olney is not the reason she has not been invited back in an official capacity. The CAPA members are more than welcome to the conferences in the Midwest. I wish they would all come. I like to see the Midwest conferences as a step toward some form of togetherness. I know David sees it that way, too. David was invited to speak at CAPA last year and had to pull out at the last minute because he had to deal with an illness. I like a lot of CAPA people very much, as does David. Casey Quinlan, Brian Edwards, and David Knight are all CAPA people, and they are a major part of planning this KC conference. It's an attempt to bring the research and information to people in the Midwest who cant or don't always get down to Dallas. But it is absolutely not ran by one of the "JVB" or "Never JVB" factions. I also think it would be a mistake to assume that the JFK Historical Group members support her story. From the people I've spoken to, it would even be a mistake to assume those who speak at her November conference endorse her story. It's not that simple, for reasons Vince Palamara has outlined. Everyone's views in this community are complex, layered, and specific to that person. I honestly don't know much about the maneuverings of the November conferences. But I do know about the April conferences, and that's why I'm chiming in. Many people have said to me something akin to "Man, whats all the JVB stuff about?! Who cares?! It's like James Files. Even if it's true, its STILL just a very small part of the story. She occupies more space in people's minds than is needed." And there is some truth to that. I was with you on Dealey Plaza that day. You know my views on the literal song-and-dance. But we will keep those there. But I have friends at both conferences, and I want to see them whenever I can. To me, part of it is that simple. I think the "cash cow," if there is one at TrineDay (and I'm sure Kris would tell you there isn't, since publishing is a very expensive business), is Ed Haslam. I believe his book is their best seller and I don't even think it's close with #2. Haslam got a lot of great publicity by being on Coast to Coast AM multiple times when the show was still a hot appearance to make. Ive been all over JFKHistorical.com, and I cant find The JVB featured prominently there or at the Project JFK site. No offense on any of this. Not arguing, just talking, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Thorne Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) Trine Day has multiple good books and multiple 'cash cows' depending on the mood and season. When Bilderberg hits the news they end up selling a bunch of Daniel Estelin books on that topic. And when Frank Olson was covered in an Errol Morris documentary they sold more copies of HP Albarelli's book on that topic than usual. And Kris Millegan was probably too busy to think about it, but if he'd been on the ball Trine Day could have probably shifted a bunch more copies of Peter Levenda's Sinister Forces trilogy if they'd promoted the Manson stuff that floats through all those volumes alongside the release of Tarantino's fictitious rewrite of the Manson story in ONCE UPON A TIME IN HOLLYWOOD. I've read Walt Brown's disgusted coverage of Baker's books and understand that Baker writes junk for profit, but what can you do? If I go to the Trine Day site, scroll to the bottom, and then scroll back up and count the good to very good books that are solid works of coverage or research that I think are respectable contributions to their various fields, I can see at least 35 books that I either know or have read about enough to know are pretty good, and there's another near dozen that I know nothing about that are probably still legit. This leaves about ten or twelve books (including Baker's) that I suspect, or know, are junk. So maybe Kris Millegan isn't picky. Who knows? Either way, there weren't too many other publishers who were going out of their way to reprint Henrik Kruger's THE GREAT HEROIN COUP or Ari Ben Menashe's PROFITS OF WAR. The former was a book from the late 70's but Kris even got Kruger to write a new contemporary chapter for the book. Is anyone at CAPA surprised that Baker is doing Baker stuff at her conference? She's a shifty woman and you wouldn't want to trust her with much. But you could also note that the mainstream TV networks in the US, ABC, CBS and NBC, have perpetuated more lies and junk about the JFK assassination than Baker cumulatively will across her entire life. On the anniversary of the 50th, some of them basically played disingenuous bullsh*t for 24 hours straight - or maybe it was for the whole week. You wouldn't want to trust those networks with anything much important either, but if one of the networks offered a researcher 30 minutes or an hour to talk uninterrupted to their audience, should the researcher turn it down because it somehow legitimises the crap the network peddled earlier? Beats me. Maybe some would say that they should. If a researcher ends up talking to the crowd at Baker's festival, maybe they should gently refuse to endorse or discuss Baker's tale about how she once took Lee Harvey out on a couple of dates. That would be fair enough. But by and large I imagine the crowd that turned up at Baker's festival to hear various speakers talk aren't really there because they think that Baker's thwarted love life is a huge, ongoing national security issue. They're there because they think the fact a good President got whacked and the media and government covered it up after the event is something that should make people angry. At least I'm guessing that's why they're there. Maybe I'm wrong. Baker wants to make money and she's discovered that the best way to sell her books is to build a small publicity empire on the back of more legitimate researchers, so she can sell herself as an important figure and move more copies of ME AND LEE. I fully understand why people wish things were different, and wish that she wasn't doing this, but she is, and probably isn't going to stop unless the research community hires Michael Palin from A FISH CALLED WANDA to drop a piano on her head, or if she passes away in the throes of a torrid romance with Jim Fetzer in the back of a taxi. Since she's going to so much trouble to arrange a speaking venue, sell tickets, and get members of the public interested in the assassination to walk through the gate, researchers should probably just say "Thanks Judy" and then basically ignore her while they talk to the crowd she's hustled up. Edited January 21, 2020 by Anthony Thorne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Clark Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) On 1/21/2020 at 5:12 PM, S.T. Patrick said: I also think it would be a mistake to assume that the JFK Historical Group members support her story. "Man, whats all the JVB stuff about?! Who cares?! It's like James Files. Even if it's true, its STILL just a very small part of the story. She occupies more space in people's minds than is needed." Ive been all over JFKHistorical.com, and I cant find The JVB featured prominently there or at the Project JFK site. No offense taken, just a lively discussion buddy! I'm more than real confident the JFK Historical Group members support her story. I heard firsthand six years ago from Denton, Tatro and company sing her praises at their first collaborative conference in DC. They've been hand in hand ever since. It matters if a fraud is running the only JFK conference in Dallas...at least to me, and it should to any serious researcher. It IS akin to James Files running a Dallas based conference, as they are both fraudulent mythmakers. Again, folks that agree to speak there are supporting the entity (JVB) or (Files) that is running the conference. Lending it credence and credibility where there should be none. Attached is the shot of JVB from the JFK historical website... Edited March 9, 2020 by Rob Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Clark Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) Exactly....💯! Edited September 9, 2020 by Rob Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Palamara Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 13 hours ago, Rob Clark said: Would you speak at the James Files Conference Vince? How bout the Loy Factor Conference? You make some good points, Rob. Trust me-I fully "get" what you all are saying. I look at it this way: my publisher, Kris Millegan of Trine Day, invited me to be a speaker for this past November conference; I accepted. I am a Trine Day author. I wasn't invited to CAPA. Like I said above (and elsewhere), if you were a fly on the wall, you would definitely have the impression that this was a TRINE DAY conference--no photos of Judyth are anywhere to be found, no loyalty oaths are given, and, with so many (CAPA BOARD MEMBERS AND BOARD OF ADVISORS!!!) luminaries attending (Newman, the two Wechts, etc.), pretty soon there won't be anyone left to "safely" follow. As someone who "lived through" the Lancer/COPA feud of 1993-2000ish, I can tell you, WITH A STRAIGHT FACE, the bad feelings toward Deb Conway were identical to Judyth; it is what it is (and I mean to cast no aspersions toward dear Deb-just telling you what I saw, read and heard multiple times during this era): "this woman came out of nowhere! WHO is she?!? She is only in it for the money! I never heard of her until 1995! I think she is CIA! SHE IS TRYING TO CO-OPT COPA AND THE RESEARCH COMMUNITY! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!" Sounds eerily familiar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Palamara Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 36 minutes ago, Rob Clark said: Exactly....💯! Are people going to disassociate themselves from John Newman and all the CAPA people who attended/ are attending her (future) conferences? If so, that would be a damn shame and their loss: John is brilliant. Heck, he could even attend a James "I am not in any" Files conference and I would just say "tsk task" and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Palamara Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Anthony Thorne said: But by and large I imagine the crowd that turned up at Baker's festival to hear various speakers talk aren't really there because they think that Baker's thwarted love life is a huge, ongoing national security issue. They're there because they think the fact a good President got whacked and the media and government covered it up after the event is something that should make people angry. At least I'm guessing that's why they're there. You can frame that, Anthony! FINALLY somebody gets it! The people I spoke to informally at the conference this past November were either oblivious to JVB or didn't care. They saw this as a JFK assassination conference; period, end of story. They didn't view this as "you are now under her spell and your attendance equates to a loyalty oath" haha! Geez Louise... Many people I spoke to never read her book (!) and only knew her as a nice lady who puts on an entertaining conference--these were the unknown, non-researcher attendees I chatted with (quite a few in four days). As for the seasoned authors and researchers (name people) I spoke to, the clear feeling conveyed to me was that this was a forum located in Dallas, the site of the JFK assassination, in which they could give their lecture and perhaps sell some of their books. You know what people were REALLY excited about? Going to Dealey Plaza and SOCIALIZING WITH OTHERS! NETWORKING! To the point where many CAPA folks intermingled with "us" on the knoll and elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Palamara Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 As evidence of other unlikely unions, connections, and locations: RFK riding in the same limousine his brother was assassinated in...with LBJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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