David Josephs Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Talk about hiding in plain sight! In September 1959 in California, Oswald applied for a PASSPORT using his DoD inactive ID - as noted on the application itself... Problem being the DoD ID has a photo of HARVEY Oswald from years later and was used to create the fake ALEX HIDELL SSS Card Are we to believe the Passport office taking the photo on the right believes these to be the same person ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephanie Goldberg Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Possibly only a slightly related question, but what documentation was required that year to apply for a passport? Could a passport be applied for without submitting new photographs? What were the documents required to apply for a passport that year? (And this was LHO's first passport application? Yes???) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 Yes Steve - the 1959 Passport... Point is the photo and ID is faked.... Oswald shows them ID, and either has a photo taken or offers one that isn't the same person... I simply find this indicative of the charade being played out by Military Intel with help from the CIA... We come to find the 2 hotels in Helsinki that were way above his means, were CIA favorites and used by other CIA passing thru to Moscow... FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) It’s worth a lot. Why would Oswald need so many different types of IDs? Maybe to use as identification with different groups of people? The faked passport was made after Oswald returned to the US and not when he went to Russia? If that is the case then that may suggest Oswald had been assigned the role of Patsy in the fall of 1962. Edited February 12, 2020 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 David, This is fascinating. Let’s look at the rightmost photo in the group below. John A. wrote the following about the face shot at the extreme right above. Quote On Sept. 4, 1959, HARVEY Oswald applied for a passport in California using a Department of Defense ID card supposedly issued a week later, on Sept. 11, the same day he was discharged from he USMC. Soon after, he travelled to Europe, Finland, and the U.S.S.R. where he “defected.” The photo is split in half because some researchers believe it is a composite image of LEE Oswald (on the left) and HARVEY Oswald (on the right). If memory serves, Sandy Larsen did a study juxtaposing and flipping the two halves of that facial image with some fascinating results, but I haven’t been able to find it. Thanks for posting this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 47 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said: If memory serves, Sandy Larsen did a study juxtaposing and flipping the two halves of that facial image with some fascinating results, but I haven’t been able to find it. Thanks for posting this That would have been me Jim... Here it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Thanks, DJ. Obviously, my memory isn't getting any better as I get older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bristow Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I tried to composite the two photos just as an experiment and had some difficulties. The eyes are positioned correctly relative to each other but nothing else lines up. In the image below the ears won't line up because the Oswald on the right is tilting his head down ever so slightly. that slight tilt makes Oswald's eye line up below the top of the ear while in the left image his eye is above his ear. In the right image Oswald was looking about one degree to his right. That means in the original image the right side is about 10%+ larger then the left side in the horizontal while the vertical does not change. When you try and put the two together they are not a perfect match. You would also need the same lighting to composite two separate photos. Not saying it can't be done but you would need two photos were the head tilt and lighting match very closely. When you make a composite of two left or two right sides like David did above the head tilt does not matter but if the face is looking even one degree to the side it distorts it. If the face is looking to the right then the composite using the right side will have a wider face than the composite of the left side and pupillary distance will change. It is interesting that once you make a composite like that you create a face that has perfect symmetry and loose much of the personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 Here are the 1959 photos combined.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bristow Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, David Josephs said: Here are the 1959 photos combined.... Wow that is interesting. It says Marguerite's files, did they mean Marina's files? Were these files brought from Russia? I would love to know the story on that. The photo must have been a practice run because it never would have passed inspection. The pupillary distance is way off, one ear is way lower than the other, the mouth is longer on one side, his left eye is lower than his right and his eyes line up with the ears differently on each side. I used to assume that if there were two Oswald's those two photos are of the same Oswald. But that wouldn't make sense if they would be placing two of them together. I can't see any reason to splice two photos of the same person together. That is very interesting indeed. For anyone looking closely at the photo I made you can ignore the lips. Rather than rotate both faces to vertical I got lazy and left them tilted. But the crop line down the middle of the face is a vertical line so it shows some errors by the time you get down to the lips. Edited February 13, 2020 by Chris Bristow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) The center guy is reminiscent of the Oswald standing on the bridge with Marina in Minsk, IMO. For Chris B. What's the big deal? David Josephs, Jack White, and others have pointed out these features of composite photos for years. If you agree that there is hanky-panky in one photo then I feel you have to open your eyes to the possibility there is photo editing going on in other source photos and films. Chris says "The photo must have been a practice run because it never would have passed inspection." Here, again I have to take a different view. In my experience the general viewer will except worse than that and see it as true and reliable. Others, for various reasons, will battle to the end that the photo is real and unaltered. Chris B. said, "For anyone looking closely at the photo I made you can ignore the lips. Rather than rotate both faces to vertical I got lazy and left them tilted. But the crop line down the middle of the face is a vertical line so it shows some errors by the time you get down to the lips." Composites are made with more complexity than just matching one side of a face to another. Details, such as you have cited are adjusted by adding smaller photo cutouts to take care of details that are not working. Artwork, generally using darkened areas to represent shadows can shape the contours of various features to make them seem more realistic. Brightened or lightened areas work the same way to cover up various things and make that appear more realistic. There are more techniques than just one in these photos. Edited February 14, 2020 by John Butler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 On 2/11/2020 at 12:24 PM, David Josephs said: Problem being the DoD ID has a photo of HARVEY Oswald from years later and was used to create the fake ALEX HIDELL SSS Card David, Do you have any idea when and where and under what conditions that passport photo was taken? The reason I ask is that I can't remember any other photos of Oswald where he is wearing a suit and tie. He was a sheet metal worker for most of his life, and a suit and tie look kind of out of place. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said: David, Do you have any idea when and where and under what conditions that passport photo was taken? The reason I ask is that I can't remember any other photos of Oswald where he is wearing a suit and tie. He was a sheet metal worker for most of his life, and a suit and tie look kind of out of place. Steve Thomas No Steve, I don't. I've just been thru a number of different sources and found nothing about the provenance of that photo... but I did notice a few things: Who writes their own name on a photo to be used in a passport - that has his name? There appears to be a round seal of some sort which extends across the image's face, shirt and left shoulder area On all three versions of this image I can find (app, passport book and an alternate I can't find a source for) they ALL have a fold line across the eyes 2 of the versions show markedly different head shapes (big brain version on left, normal on right) the DoD card used as ID for a Sept 9th passport was not issued until Sept 11th The bottom image shows photos supposedly taken 1 week apart.... yet we have this statement about LEE claiming he was discharged in MARCH 1959... Seems more likely to me THAT was when the photo was taken.. Zack Stout who was with LEE in Atsugi while Harvey worked with McBride at Pfisterer in New Orleans claimed he was a decent radar operator. I've only just today sent a note to John asking about the discrepancy... the only thing I can think of is that his job classification was a cover for his work with the U-2... but IDK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Steve Thomas said: The reason I ask is that I can't remember any other photos of Oswald where he is wearing a suit and tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Butler Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 David, The FBI doc confirms what we had talked about earlier concerning the rank differences between the two Oswalds in the fall of 1956. This rank difference and discharge date suggests strongly.that Lee Oswald entered the Marines at least 6-8 moths earlier than Harvey. That would have made him 16 when he entered the Corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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