"a fake assassination attempt . . . or . . . part of an abort team set up to stop an assassination"

[Kirk Ross]

https://www.amazon.com/Wall-Secrecy-Assassination-Angleton-William-ebook/dp/B07DMR2PG9

I searched this forum and the author was mentioned in a BYP discussion, but not this book AFAICT. 

The blurb says:

"The evidence as we know it today tends to indicate that various people involved who had been in Dallas, Texas on or around the date of the assassination may have had an understanding that the operation might have been either a fake assassination attempt of the President or had been part of an abort team set up to stop an assassination."

Is this the "evidence as we know it today"?  Has anyone seen this theory of a fake assassination or abort team mentioned elsewhere?  It seems to suggest that this information comes from recently released documents. 

[David Andrews]

You will see these issues discussed in the back threads, though I doubt there are entire threads devoted to them.  You might try attempt and abort as search terms.

The fake assassination that morphed into a real one is an ongoing rumor that's been around for decades.  I recall first reading about it before the end of the 1980s, though I cannot recall where.

Tosh Plumlee, the self-alleged pilot of assassination personnel to Dallas, claimed to have been part of an abort team stationed below the south knoll.  Look his posts up.

I, myself, would like to know more about the fake assassination gambit than I know now .

Edited March 13, 2020 by David Andrews

[Steve Cearfoss]

BYP??? AFAICT???? How difficult is it to write out ‘as far as I can tell.’ The overuse of these acronyms is irritating

Edited March 13, 2020 by Steve Cearfoss

[Larry Hancock]

As far as I know there is no "evidence" other than the personal remarks by Tosh Plumlee - who I don't consider a credible source for many reasons including how much his story has changed over the years.  As David says its a scenario that has been talked about for decades. 

As I recall Vince P wrote about it very early on a Secret Service "test" of a sort,  don't know if he still supports that idea or not.

[Ron Ecker]

2 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

As far as I know there is no "evidence" other than the personal remarks by Tosh Plumlee - who I don't consider a credible source for many reasons including how much his story has changed over the years.

Also a photo taken at the time of the area where he was supposed to be standing doesn't show anyone there.

 

[Paul Brancato]

The abort team scenario doesn’t seem logical. I believe Judyth Vary Baker pushes a variant of that in which Oswald was trying to stop the assassination. 
Though I know it’s not popular here, and not provable, I think the fake assassination hijacked by a Kill team is very logical, especially if one believes that going after Fidel and Cuba was the real purpose of the hypothetical fake attempt. Killing jfk was not necessary in that case. If he had survived, and if it had been proven to him that Castro was behind it, I’m certain he would have taken active measures. Extending that logic, the Kill Team must have had other reasons. Castro was never deposed, despite numerous efforts to paint him as the brains behind the operation. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Paul Brancato

[Matt Allison]

Getting Lee Oswald to bring his rifle to work that day certainly would have been an easier task if he was told he'd be participating in a fake assassination attempt.

[Paul Brancato]

6 hours ago, Kirk Ross said:

https://www.amazon.com/Wall-Secrecy-Assassination-Angleton-William-ebook/dp/B07DMR2PG9

I searched this forum and the author was mentioned in a BYP discussion, but not this book AFAICT. 

The blurb says:

"The evidence as we know it today tends to indicate that various people involved who had been in Dallas, Texas on or around the date of the assassination may have had an understanding that the operation might have been either a fake assassination attempt of the President or had been part of an abort team set up to stop an assassination."

Is this the "evidence as we know it today"?  Has anyone seen this theory of a fake assassination or abort team mentioned elsewhere?  It seems to suggest that this information comes from recently released documents. 

Search for the thread called Bill Decker and John Tower, started by Bill Kelly. The thread is basically about Gary Wean. 

[Joseph McBride]

This was the silly premise of Don DeLillo's novel LIBRA. 

[Matt Allison]

Joseph-  Blakey got a number of things wrong, but one thing he most certainly got right was when he said that if you're going to explain the Kennedy assassination, you have to explain Lee Oswald.

[Kirk Ross]

Thanks for all the informed responses.  I was not expecting so much.  Apparently it is a known story, just not very well if at all substantiated.  And, as far as I can tell (lol, smh), it's not something that was released recently.

[David Andrews]

It is an old rumor, and not a silly one.  For instance, if subjects could be tricked into participating in a false assassination based on the probability that an arrested assassin with Castro connections (perhaps even an intelligence operative said to be playing a part) would cause the military to force an invasion of Cuba on Kennedy, then valuable cooperation, high and low, could be obtained.  Also, financial contributors or domestic spies could be used and entrapped, without recourse to complaint.

A certain US investigative bureau today keeps its counterterrorism departments employed and the terror threat alive by manufacturing domestic terrorists out of citizens who can be tipped over into extremism and violence by supplying fake bombs, dummy plans and false accomplices who are informants or agents.  Does this long-running scheme seem silly now?

One might want to read widely on the circumstances of the 1993 WTC bombing and the informant used by the investigative bureau.  One might want to read as far as speculation that the informant was foisted on the investigative bureau by an intelligence agency whose charter severely limits its domestic operations.

As far as JFKA sources on this go, Kirk, read around in the various interviews (and EdForum posts!) of Gerry Patrick Hemming, and the interview with Roy Hargraves conducted by Noel Twyman for the book Bloody Treason.  (This interview is available separately on the internet).  Both these guys were disinfo artists, and neither will speak about a false assassination attempt per se.  However, you will get a feel for the milieu of anti-Kennedy actors that might have been co-opted into a false attempt.

Edited March 15, 2020 by David Andrews

[Kirk Ross]

4 hours ago, David Andrews said:

It is an old rumor, and not a silly one.

I never thought it was silly.  In my mind it's quite plausible.  I just haven't seen any proof that it actually happened that way.  That's why I asked.

4 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Does this long-running scheme seem silly now?

No.  In addition to the examples you site, one closer to home is a book "The Pinochet File".  Same cast, different setting. There was no "too far".

4 hours ago, David Andrews said:

read around in the various interviews (and EdForum posts!) of Gerry Patrick Hemming, and the interview with Roy Hargraves conducted by Noel Twyman for the book Bloody Treason.

I've read about Hemmings before.  Not sure what to make of him.  I'll follow up on your suggestions, though.  Thanks.

[David Andrews]

1 hour ago, Kirk Ross said:

I never thought it was silly.  In my mind it's quite plausible. 

Kirk - apologies for being unclear: read further above for the poster who thought it was "silly."

Thanks for recommending The Pinochet File.

Edited March 16, 2020 by David Andrews

[Matt Allison]

When Dick Russell interviewed Colonel William Bishop back in the 70s or 80s, Bishop said that he had heard something about the assassination operation being pulled off via the perpetrators calling it a "fake assassination attempt."