The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[David Andrews]

How exactly has this man "run America like a business"?  Discuss.

[Ron Ecker]

6 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

How exactly has this man "run America like a business"?  Discuss.

Well, for one thing, he's known for bankruptcies.

He's also known for stiffing contractors. (Compare stabbing the Kurds in the back.)

 

 

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Those constitutional provisions are very interesting, Steve. You're right, what a mess!

I think Trump will do everything he can to obstruct the voting process to keep numbers from the polls. Many have speculated that Trump won't go peaceably. But if he clearly loses, I tend to agree with Ty. I think he rides off into the sunset.

i think these ex generals weighing in may be also be a deterrent to any confidence he may have. If the election results were to become real tight, and he lost. He could be under some simplistic illusion, to think  that he'd have the military behind his back.

[Paul Brancato]

32 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Ron,

I don't think you will.

Here is my take at the moment.

Trump will declare the election to be invalid due to massive voter fraud and will barricade himself inside his newly established fortress and refuse to leave.

The issue will go to the Supreme Court. The Court will dither until January 20th and a Contingent Election will be held.

A Contingent Election is provided for in the XXth and XIIth Amendments to the Constitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentieth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

"The Twentieth Amendment (Amendment XX) to the United States Constitution moved the beginning and ending of the terms of the president and vice president from March 4 to January 20, and of members of Congress from March 4 to January 3. It also has provisions that determine what is to be done when there is no president-elect. The Twentieth Amendment was adopted on January 23, 1933.^[1]

The amendment was designed largely to limit the "lame duck" period, the period served by Congress and the president after an election but before the end of the terms of those who were not re-elected. Because under the amendment Congressional terms begin before presidential terms, it is now the incoming Congress, rather than the outgoing one, that would hold a contingent election in the event that no candidate wins a majority of the electoral vote in a presidential election. The amendment also establishes procedures in the case that a president-elect dies, is not chosen, or otherwise fails to qualify prior to the start of a new presidential term.

Section 3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election

In the United States, a contingent election is the procedure used in presidential elections in the case where no candidate wins an absolute majority of votes in the Electoral College, the constitutional mechanism for electing the president and the vice president of the United States. A contingent election for the president is decided by a vote of the United States House of Representatives, and the contingent election for the vice president is decided by a vote of the United States Senate. The contingent election procedure, along with the other parts of the presidential election process, was first established in Article Two, Section 1, Clause 3 of the United States Constitution, and then modified by the 12th Amendment in 1804.

Contingent elections are extremely rare, having occurred only three times in American history, all in the early 19th century."

 

It's going to be a mess.

Steve Thomas

If I understand this correctly, the new Congress would make these decisions, assuming the vote results for Congress are not likewise contested. The House will probably stay Democratic. The Senate might still be in Republican hands. I can see a scenario where Biden wins, Trump contests, then Biden dies and the Senate puts Pence in the WH.

[Paul Brancato]

1 minute ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Those constitutional provisions are very interesting, Steve. You're right, what a mess!

I think Trump will do everything he can to obstruct the voting process to keep numbers from the polls. Many have speculated that Trump won't go peaceably. But if he clearly loses, I tend to agree with Ty. I think he rides off into the sunset.

i think these ex generals weighing in may be also be a deterrent to any confidence he may have. If the election results were to become real tight, and he lost. He could be under some simplistic illusion, to think  that he'd have the military behind his back.

Those are ex-generals. When the current Joint Chiefs turn on Trump I’ll breathe easier. 

[David Andrews]

Here's a resolution built around a Trump refusal to concede a lost election.  Some provisions may apply to no-election scenarios:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/06/trump-election-refusal-leave.html

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by David Andrews

[W. Niederhut]

11 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Ha ha. I may use the panels too, on this group.

Do you remember the National Lampoon album "That's not funny, it's sick!"  I'm not trying to undue all the good karma around now about Mr. Rogers.

Mr. Rogers interviewing the bass player?  They say this Christopher Guest and Bill Murray. But i think  I'm pretty good at picking out voices and even though the bass player character is a good Bill Murray character, I'm not for sure it's him.

https://youtu.be/9WuXdmx6L5c

Do you remember Fred's encounter with a neighbor?

https://youtu.be/mLxGiXMEbEM

Monolithic oil

https://youtu.be/-ummmN3wlGw?list=PLJGmQQXEQhf3TYXtvW8vJX44o_C3SETK2

 

Do you remember the TV game show give away.  With the same  bass player character. Name 4 famous Micky's?.

 

The National Lampoon Radio Hour in the early 70s was howlingly funny.

I haven't listened to those old radio shows for 45 years, but I still remember them.

After Neil Young released his Harvest album, someone on the NL Radio Hour did a hilarious parody of the song, "A Man Needs A Maid," singing, "I need someone to keep my shorts clean," in a high, reedy voice.

Then there was, "Ask Dr. Science," hosted by a guy who,  had "a Masters Degree...in SCIENCE!"

Another bit was the game show, "Catch As Catch Can," where the hosts would throw mystery merchandise off of a building to the contestants below-- including "12 bars of gold bullion that carried quite a load," and, finally, "an Amana freezer!"  🤪

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

i think these ex generals weighing in may be also be a deterrent to any confidence he may have. If the election results were to become real tight, and he lost. He could be under some simplistic illusion, to think  that he'd have the military behind his back.

Kirk,

I told someone a while back that this will come down to a civil war within the military.

Some will follow him because he is the Commander-In-Chief.

Some will refuse what they perceive to be unlawful orders.

The ex-generals and ex-admirals coming out now is to give cover to those in active service who will be among the ones who will refuse to follow Trump.

It will be Venezuela here in the U.S.

Steve Thomas

 

[Ron Ecker]

3 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Trump will declare the election to be invalid due to massive voter fraud and will barricade himself inside his newly established fortress and refuse to leave.

The issue will go to the Supreme Court.

Well it can't be as simple as that. If Trump claims massive voter fraud, he will have to provide some evidence, won't he? Just to say there was massive voter fraud is like saying the coronavirus "will disappear." On what is the statement based? I can't see something going to the Supreme Court just because of Trump utterance.

 

[Cliff Varnell]

Will Trump keep his Secret Service protection should he face jail time for any of his crimes?

[Ron Ecker]

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Will Trump keep his Secret Service protection should he face jail time for any of his crimes?

The Secret Service will have to have a Jail Detail. Also the jail or prison will have to provide Trump with tanning equipment, so he can maintain his orange tint. Otherwise his attorney Rudy Giuliani (housed in the same jail or country-club prison dormitory) will help him file suit for cruel and unusual punishment.

 

[James DiEugenio]

Wecht was ahead of the curve on how bad the cops are:

https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com/cyril-wecht-on-george-floyd/?fbclid=IwAR0jQoO3l62d7oou4GoodeNzBS_y8DNpCCBqxZtbculP6hAEhy-xWUD3OHc

[David Andrews]

49 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Wecht was ahead of the curve on how bad the cops are:

https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com/cyril-wecht-on-george-floyd/?fbclid=IwAR0jQoO3l62d7oou4GoodeNzBS_y8DNpCCBqxZtbculP6hAEhy-xWUD3OHc

I'm very familiar with the Jonny Gammage case, referred to in the article. Jonny Gammage was the brother of a Pittsburgh Steelers player.  The cops chased his SUV into a one-lane tunnel in the city that I know very well.  Later, they claimed that he was put in a compression hold because he had made a 180-degree turn with his SUV and charged the police cars.  I don't remember how (or if) that point was decided in court, but the public perception was that the cops turned the SUV around themselves, after Gammage was dead.  I would have trouble making a three-point turn with a Honda, slowly, in that tunnel, much less doing it during a high-speed chase.  The case circumstances would have attracted much less attention were an NFL player not involved.

Somebody is telling cops that they can kill people.  Given the consequences, this has become almost as destructive to the cops as to the public.

 

What's unfortunately missing in recent articles on police forces receiving surplus DoD equipment is that police are also receiving military-style training in using this equipment, from military agencies.  If this training has reached down to crowd control and detainment of arrestees, then the US has created the kind of internal police system it established in 1970s South America under the School of the Americas program.

Edited June 8, 2020 by David Andrews

[Ron Bulman]

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Wecht was ahead of the curve on how bad the cops are:

https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com/cyril-wecht-on-george-floyd/?fbclid=IwAR0jQoO3l62d7oou4GoodeNzBS_y8DNpCCBqxZtbculP6hAEhy-xWUD3OHc

Great article not featured elsewhere I'm aware of (shame).  All should read, thanks for the link.  Wecht is a classic.  Was he not the only dissenter on a medical a board on one of the investigations of the JFK Assassination?

[Ron Ecker]

As if the election prospects don't look messy enough, here's a hypothetical (and a real possibility) for you. We know that George Floyd tested positive for Covid-19. Biden just met with Floyd's family, and was photographed with them with a mask but no social distancing. Did Floyd infect no one in his family, and did no one in his family then infect Biden? Or for that matter what if Biden gets the virus from who knows who in the course of his campaigning (especially if there are some nice honeys to hug)? All we need is for Biden to wind up on a ventilator and die before the election. What happens then? It's Sanders after all?