The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Ron Ecker]

Trump would never agree to any real-time fact-checking team. He would call it "a witch hunt." And if they did try to point out a lie, he would call them "incompetent" and "nasty." 

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump even called Biden's candidacy "a hoax." Trump might say, "You might as well vote for me because I'm running unopposed." At any mention of Biden, he could say, "I don't know him. What happened to Pocahontas? Have this Biden show you a birth certificate."

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

Speaking of tax returns, remember when Trump said in 2016, before the election, that he would release them, "after the audit?"

Where are they?

The M$M should be asking Trump, "Why haven't you released your tax returns, as you said you would do in 2016?"

So, I agree with Thomas Friedman on this one.    No tax returns, no debates.

[Ron Ecker]

No debates would just work in Trump's favor. He would boast that the cognitively declining Biden was simply afraid to debate him and was using the tax returns, which are "under audit," as an excuse.

 

 

[Steve Thomas]

Trump supporters are already talking about what they might do if he doesn't win — extremism experts are worried

by Andrew Feinberg

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/trump-lose-2020-election-supporters-maga-presidency-a9606081.html

"But even by the hardball standards of American presidential politics, Trump’s reelection bid stands out in history as the sole example of an incumbent president who is pushing his supporters to view a loss as the end of the republic, rather than the end of his political career."

"Jonathan Lockwood, an operative for right-wing extremist Republican in Oregon, recently issued an ominous warning to the American people and the world. In an interview with the Independent he explains:

“I think we should fear a violent uprising… All it takes is for Trump to say one line or post one tweet,” he said, adding that such an uprising could consist of occupying state capitols or even taking hostages to prevent state legislatures from certifying the election results.

“I think you could see takeovers of every [state] capitol, since the president seems to enjoy watching that from DC, and the country can descend into a chaos that we’ve never seen."

I think we've seen that recently in Michigan.

Steve Thomas

[Douglas Caddy]

 

[David Andrews]

1 minute ago, Steve Thomas said:

 

...And people like this, with their inherent threat of vigilantism (especially to #BLM), are one good reason why police departments should be demilitarized and reformed, but not defunded unilaterally and abolished.

Or is that what the powers want?  For us to turn around and cry out for more policing?

[Kirk Gallaway]

Yeah Ron, that's the method he's employed with corona virus, "it's just no opposition. It just doesn't exist! Might as well just continue with my winning strategy!" And we're scratching our heads, "yeah ok, sure!!!!"

Bob, I've thought about  Biden not debating as well. They should take polls about that. It could be that people are just so tired of conflict and ugliness, that they wouldn't even insist on it, and he wouldn't suffer in the polling. They probably have about 6 weeks to decide. I don't think Biden should pick a VP until the convention, just like the old days.

Trump decries the IRS, but I'm amazed at how the respectful the government is that no one in the government has leaked his taxes up to now.

As for an insurrection, I think if Biden wins by say 3%, Trump can't squawk and if a bunch of fools decide to get brave, they will squashed.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Kirk Gallaway

[Bob Ness]

5 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Bob, I've thought about  Biden not debating as well. They should take polls about that. It could be that people are just so tired of conflict and ugliness, that they wouldn't even insist on it, and he wouldn't suffer in the polling. They probably have about 6 weeks to decide. I don't think Biden should pick a VP until the convention, just like the old days.

Yeah pretty much. I just don't see any advantage at this point. If the polls are any indication it may be better to just to let Trump self immolate. Of course the Dems are pretty good about providing fire extinguishers to their opponents so let's see. The last thing Trump would do is debate issues other than completely fabricate his responses. The debates would turn into a food fight. Friedman may be right about demanding to see the returns before agreeing.

Re VP pick I'm not certain what the best strategy would be. Waiting puts the opposition into a mode where they can't attack a single candidate and those potential picks can all campaign for Biden. It diffuses the message but also the attacks. I do like the idea of the Republicans sending volleys off and wasting resources on someone who won't be the VP.

[Joe Bauer]

As much as I think Biden isn't the best Dem candidate and got this only because of Bloomberg's massive 500 million dollar financed Democratic primary scheme of splitting away just enough Sander's and Warren's voters to allow Biden to gain the lead even though it was still only a plurality, I think his style of speaking would do well against Trump in a debate.

In all the years I have watched Biden speak ( he's run in so many presidential elections ) he does have a certain working man folksy manner that I think appeals to the middle class. Laughably more so than silver spoon spoiled rotten Trump.

Biden truly does come from working class roots.

I used to like Biden's sentimental anecdotes about his bedtime talks with his young boys ... "Champ, you can be anything you want to be if you truly want this and work hard to achieve your dream..."

And his " I know what it's like to worry about monthly bills folks..." Etc.

I believe working class Biden can connect to average Americans better in this way than nutty life long 1% privileged and indulged Trump. 

And I honestly believe Biden has some real debate fight in him. He doesn't show this much as he keeps an even keel and a calm smile on his face mostly. I've never seen him truly go after a debate opponent with a fired up warrior aggressiveness. 

Yet, I think Trump could bring this out of Biden and I believe he will show he can be a tough cookie if he needs to be. I think he could really knock Trump on his vapid, hollow bully ass if he does.

Watched Elizabeth Warren on Chris Hayes' MSNBC show last night.

She sounds and looks so damn sharp and full of healthy energy to me.

The healthiest looking well known 70 year old female this side of Meryl Streep, Helen Mirren, Cher, Diana Ross, Tina Turner, Barbara Streisand, Jane Fonda, Raquel Welch, Susan Sarandon, Sally Fields, Goldie Hawn, Rudy ( Judy) Guiliani in drag, etc.

If Biden picks Warren as his VP, the Dems win in a landslide.

And Warren would tear up Trump's sycophantic mannequin looking Mike Spence in any debates imo.

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Douglas Caddy]

For Trump, "Deutsche" Means "Gotcha"

Indictments loom for the president and members of his family. And there's nothing he can do about it.

https://gregolear.substack.com/p/for-trump-deutsche-means-gotcha?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo5NTk5NDEyLCJwb3N0X2lkIjo2NjI4OTAsIl8iOiJxSGh1aiIsImlhdCI6MTU5NDM5OTU2NSwiZXhwIjoxNTk0NDAzMTY1LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjA2OTUiLCJzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.Xp8_Jt94Q34NwwU63CSnhQCSG2ifc4mFLPrCSI_cC-k

[Douglas Caddy]

Joe: Your observation above about Biden is very perceptive. I would merely add the following:

Biden used to stutter in his younger years and overtime worked to overcome this handicap. This is why he speaks today  as he does in an orderly manner.

[Steve Thomas]

44 minutes ago, Douglas Caddy said:

For Trump, "Deutsche" Means "Gotcha"

Indictments loom for the president and members of his family. And there's nothing he can do about it.

https://gregolear.substack.com/p/for-trump-deutsche-means-gotcha?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo5NTk5NDEyLCJwb3N0X2lkIjo2NjI4OTAsIl8iOiJxSGh1aiIsImlhdCI6MTU5NDM5OTU2NSwiZXhwIjoxNTk0NDAzMTY1LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjA2OTUiLCJzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.Xp8_Jt94Q34NwwU63CSnhQCSG2ifc4mFLPrCSI_cC-k

Douglas.

Don Jr.'s name was on one of those checks re-imbursing Michael Cohen. I wonder how he expensed that on his tax return.

I, myself, find it hilariously ironic that in the end, Trump and his organization (i.e. family) will go down for the same reason Al Capone did; income tax tax fraud.

Steve Thomas

 

[Bob Ness]

55 minutes ago, Douglas Caddy said:

For Trump, "Deutsche" Means "Gotcha"

Indictments loom for the president and members of his family. And there's nothing he can do about it.

https://gregolear.substack.com/p/for-trump-deutsche-means-gotcha?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo5NTk5NDEyLCJwb3N0X2lkIjo2NjI4OTAsIl8iOiJxSGh1aiIsImlhdCI6MTU5NDM5OTU2NSwiZXhwIjoxNTk0NDAzMTY1LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjA2OTUiLCJzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.Xp8_Jt94Q34NwwU63CSnhQCSG2ifc4mFLPrCSI_cC-k

This is what it has always boiled down to. Since before day one. Money laundering. What else is he capable of? And he's probably as bad at that as he is everything else.

I think it's quite possible a Biden DoJ could go after Barr for obstruction also.

[Bob Ness]

1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

As much as I think Biden isn't the best Dem candidate and got this only because of Bloomberg's massive 500 million dollar financed Democratic primary scheme of splitting away just enough Sander's and Warren's voters to allow Biden to gain the lead even though it was still only a plurality, I think his style of speaking would do well against Trump in a debate.

In all the years I have watched Biden speak ( he's run in so many presidential elections ) he does have a certain working man folksy manner that I think appeals to the middle class. Laughably more so than silver spoon spoiled rotten Trump.

Biden truly does come from working class roots.

I used to like Biden's sentimental anecdotes about his bedtime talks with his young boys ... "Champ, you can be anything you want to be if you truly want this and work hard to achieve your dream..."

And his " I know what it's like to worry about monthly bills folks..." Etc.

I believe working class Biden can connect to average Americans better in this way than nutty life long 1% privileged and indulged Trump. 

And I honestly believe Biden has some real debate fight in him. He doesn't show this much as he keeps an even keel and a calm smile on his face mostly. I've never seen him truly go after a debate opponent with a fired up warrior aggressiveness. 

Yet, I think Trump could bring this out of Biden and I believe he will show he can be a tough cookie if he needs to be. I think he could really knock Trump on his vapid, hollow bully ass if he does.

Watched Elizabeth Warren on Chris Hayes' MSNBC show last night.

She sounds and looks so damn sharp and full of healthy energy to me.

The healthiest looking well known 70 year old female this side of Meryl Streep, Helen Mirren, Cher, Diana Ross, Tina Turner, Barbara Streisand, Jane Fonda, Raquel Welch, Susan Sarandon, Sally Fields, Goldie Hawn, Rudy ( Judy) Guiliani in drag, etc.

If Biden picks Warren as his VP, the Dems win in a landslide.

And Warren would tear up Trump's sycophantic mannequin looking Mike Spence in any debates imo.

 

Sure. I get that but I'm not sure that it's not better to throw the effort into PR or ads rather than a clown show with dim news anchors who will bend over backwards to be "fair". I can't remember the last time the debates penetrated enough to make a difference. They usually tend to be like showing horses but I don't think they shift votes unless somebody stumbles badly. It's a good question though. Maybe you're right.

[Joe Bauer]

John McCain looked horrible against Obama in the debates.

He looked frail, almost crippled, and was so much older and unhealthy looking versus Obama. 

He also used to pace around nervously ( sitting may have hurt his body?) while Obama spoke or when he spoke and flail one arm about when he got upset about some debate point.

Obama came across as so much more calm and even in his speaking manner and responses.

McCain showed uneasy impatience at times complete with irritated facial expressions. He came across as cranky old man as much as any other trait.

Those debates only hurt McCain, not Obama.

Biden does look noticeably tired now and has lost much of his earlier years quick thinking and speaking energy from what I can see.

Maybe for this reason alone Biden should consider letting the debate format go and like so many say, let Trump just continue to self-destruct with his almost daily nuttiness and tweet nonsense.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Joe Bauer