Unveiling The Limo Stop

[Robert Burrows]

On 6/12/2020 at 9:37 AM, Chris Davidson said:

Two shots as one.

I've never seen the Zapruder film and the Muchmore film presented in this fashion: it's stunning- clearly the impact on JFK's head appears to happen at different times. Jean Hill and Mary Mooreman are at the side of the limousine when the impact is visible in Muchmore, but the car has passed them by the time that the President's head explodes in Z 313...

[Chris Bristow]

On 6/16/2020 at 4:52 PM, Robert Burrows said:

I've never seen the Zapruder film and the Muchmore film presented in this fashion: it's stunning- clearly the impact on JFK's head appears to happen at different times. Jean Hill and Mary Mooreman are at the side of the limousine when the impact is visible in Muchmore, but the car has passed them by the time that the President's head explodes in Z 313...

I haven't fully grasped the implications of the elevation and timing differences but it is more subtle then the positions of Moorman and Hill. Hill and Moorman are actually in the correct positions when you consider the different positions of Muchmore and Zapruder.

[Paul Bacon]

5 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

I haven't fully grasped the implications of the elevation and timing differences but it is more subtle then the positions of Moorman and Hill. Hill and Moorman are actually in the correct positions when you consider the different positions of Muchmore and Zapruder.

Possibly, but I think what Chris Davidson's GIF demonstrates, is two different shots at two different instances and that the shots were less than a second apart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMdreKlLhJY

This is a stabilized version of Muchmore.  Go to 1:09 in the video.  Frame 43 shows the first hit (what Chris D. shows in the GIF), but I think what I'm seeing in the next 6 frames, before Kennedy is hidden behind Jean Hill, is the "back and to the left" moment.  I'd love another opinion.

 

[Chris Bristow]

On 6/18/2020 at 6:57 AM, Paul Bacon said:

Possibly, but I think what Chris Davidson's GIF demonstrates, is two different shots at two different instances and that the shots were less than a second apart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMdreKlLhJY

This is a stabilized version of Muchmore.  Go to 1:09 in the video.  Frame 43 shows the first hit (what Chris D. shows in the GIF), but I think what I'm seeing in the next 6 frames, before Kennedy is hidden behind Jean Hill, is the "back and to the left" moment.  I'd love another opinion.

 

I think his head starts to moves back just before  it disappears behind Hill. The rest is hidden by Hargis, Moorman and Hill.
Lately I question whether he moves back AND LEFT. JFK is already leaning left at almost 45 degrees so I don't know if he goes left or just straight back from a leftward position. Some also claim a shot from the drain because JFK moves upward as if hit from below. But I would think if you are forced backwards from a hunched forward position you torso would naturally unfold and so rise up as it fell back. I think the force would naturally push his upper body back and that would straighten the torso.

[Paul Bacon]

12 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

I think his head starts to moves back just before  it disappears behind Hill. The rest is hidden by Hargis, Moorman and Hill.
Lately I question whether he moves back AND LEFT. JFK is already leaning left at almost 45 degrees so I don't know if he goes left or just straight back from a leftward position. Some also claim a shot from the drain because JFK moves upward as if hit from below. But I would think if you are forced backwards from a hunched forward position you torso would naturally unfold and so rise up as it fell back. I think the force would naturally push his upper body back and that would straighten the torso.

I agree with you Chris.  Definitely back, but as you say, not so much to the left.

What I think I'm seeing in the video I linked to, is not only his head going back, but shoulders and upper body as well.  The torso seems to rise a bit as it's launched backward.  The continuation of that movement is then hidden behind Jean Hill and Bobby Hargis as they converge.

On ‎6‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 9:57 AM, Paul Bacon said:

Possibly, but I think what Chris Davidson's GIF demonstrates, is two different shots at two different instances and that the shots were less than a second apart.

I'm not so sure, anymore, about my proclamation here.  It still could be true that there were two, almost simultaneous shots, but the Muchmore frame that Chris D. synced with z313, could be one and the same shot.  The reason I think that may be the case, is because in viewing more of  the Muchmore video, the puff of debris above Kennedy's head that Chris D's frame shows, seems to flow naturally into the backward movement in the subsequent frames.  In other words, the Muchmore film seems to validate what we see in Zapruder.

[Chris Davidson]

On 5/27/2020 at 11:20 AM, Chris Davidson said:

Rick,

If you've been following the thread, you might realize I've purposely stayed away from any witness testimony except Hickey I believe.

Using his testimony,  I applied his hair-flap description to the zfilm around z274.

In retrospect, I think he was probably describing the z310 shot quite possibly converted(blob wise) into the extant z313 frame.

I don't feel the need to argue whether or not there were two hits to the head, and I have no reason to doubt all the Parkland staff.

What is obvious to me is there were two shots within a time frame which would not include one shooter.

That aspect, along with a limo instantaneous stop and the math used to accommodate the frame removal sequence is what this is about.

Was the frame/s with the obvious second shot(frontal location) removed or is extant z318+ a combination of an instant hit and camera reaction.

The acoustics are a wonderful addition.

CE884 is the data chart. The limo was not traveling 2.24/3.74mph using either chart at the designated time specified.

It was traveling that speed at another point during the assassination.

It's quite obvious now, (see previous posts) when that occurred.

I just continue to show how the WC went about their business.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's missing from the Muchmore/Z gif ?

[Chris Davidson]

On 6/8/2020 at 2:29 PM, Chris Davidson said:

265.26 - 262.23 = 3.03ft

3.03ft + 2.37ft(for sake of confusion) = 5.4ft horizontal ft.

Now you know why Specter eventually changed the original elevations from the Dec5, 1963 plat.

Elev 418.48 - 418.35 = .13 x 18.3 = 2.379 horizontal ft.

 

 

5.4ft = 3 frames @ .9ft (CE884 - z168-Z171) using 18 whole frames or 5.49ft using 18.3frames = 1 second.

A little more frame refine for the equivalent of one second in time:

3.03ft /10.1frames = .3ft per frame

2.46ft / 8.2 frames =  .3ft per frame

5.49ft / 18.3 frames = .3ft per frame

5.49ft per sec = 3.734mph

3.734mph = 1/2 x 7.47mph

7.47mph = z301-z313 plotted average = .6ft per frame

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chris Davidson]

And/Or,

If it's easier to understand broken down this way and converted back into distance then connected back to CE884.

10.1 / 18.3 = .551.... = the equivalent of (55%) frame removal from a span of one second.

 (1/.551...) = 1.8118... = multiplier for total distance @18.3frames = one second

1.8118 x 3.03ft = 5.49ft = total distance over 1 second

5.49ft / 1.47 = 3.734 mph = .3ft per frame average

 

[Chris Davidson]

Referring to the previous post, what is the difference in frame count once you remove the BS distance of .9ft?

 

[Joe Bauer]

On 6/16/2020 at 4:52 PM, Robert Burrows said:

I've never seen the Zapruder film and the Muchmore film presented in this fashion: it's stunning- clearly the impact on JFK's head appears to happen at different times. Jean Hill and Mary Mooreman are at the side of the limousine when the impact is visible in Muchmore, but the car has passed them by the time that the President's head explodes in Z 313...

Just my observation but JFK's head in frame 313 of the Z film snaps forward several inches when the bullet hits.

Also, it looks to me in the Muchmore frame that Moorman's position relative to the Limo and the motorcycles in that shot "is" slightly different than where she is shown in Z film frame 313.

However, I believe this is explained by the Muchmore shot being taken a micro-second before Z film frame 313.

In the Muchmore shot the ejaculation of JFK brain matter is just beginning, where as in Z 313 it is hugely more fully engaged into a heavy, broad, bright pink colored spray including a very visible shot of blood and perhaps bone shooting upwards above the limo as well.

A spray so colorful and expansive, close by eyewitnesses like Bill Newman even mentioned it's vividness.

In the Muchmore pic you don't see the "fuller" JFK brain spray you see in Z 313.

And notice also in Z film frame 313, that driver William Greer is turned a full 180 degrees backwards and looking straight at JFK both before and during the head shot.

No driver of a moving vehicle turns all the way around like that for even a second or two and still keeps their foot on the accelerator as much as when they are staring straight ahead.

JFK's limo had to have slowed down when Greer turned around and as you can clearly see, Greer was fully turned around looking at JFK before JFK's head was actually hit.

Hence, the limo was slowed just before the third and fatal head shot. IMO.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Andrej Stancak]

Chris:

I hope you will not find this message as too far from the main thread, however, I would like to know your opinion on the exact timing of Mary Moorman picture relative to Zapruder film. Did you have a chance to look into this? My estimate just from eyeballing the similarities of JFK's body posture in Moorman picture and Zapruder film is that Moorman picture could be equivalent to Z314 or Z315. Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

[Chris Davidson]

4 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Chris:

I hope you will not find this message as too far from the main thread, however, I would like to know your opinion on the exact timing of Mary Moorman picture relative to Zapruder film. Did you have a chance to look into this? My estimate just from eyeballing the similarities of JFK's body posture in Moorman picture and Zapruder film is that Moorman picture could be equivalent to Z314 or Z315. Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

Andrej,

The comparison of Moorman to extant Z would equate to 1.4ft farther west down Elm St in relation to the official extant Z313 plot.

If you (I won't at this time due to previous info posted and other items yet to be introduced) want to make the assumption that the limo(no slowing/no stop) was traveling at .6ft per frame(7.47mph) at this point, the frame number would equate to:

1.4ft / .6 = 2.33frames

313 + 2.33= extant  Z315.33

 

[Joe Bauer]

8 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Chris:

I hope you will not find this message as too far from the main thread, however, I would like to know your opinion on the exact timing of Mary Moorman picture relative to Zapruder film. Did you have a chance to look into this? My estimate just from eyeballing the similarities of JFK's body posture in Moorman picture and Zapruder film is that Moorman picture could be equivalent to Z314 or Z315. Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

I still see the Muchmore snap shot being taken a micro-second before Zapruder's 313 frame.

What are the odds that Zapruder's 313 and Muchmore's shot were snapped at exactly the same time? I mean, to a micro-second degree.

Seems logical to me that this would explain Moorman and Hill being very slightly farther back on the Zapruder film.

I see the vertical straight up shot of brain and bone projection from JFK's head being visibly higher and more noticeable in the Z-313 frame versus the Muchmore shot.

Just my observation.

[Chris Davidson]

If you don't flinch, careful analysis of this headshot might help with the "two shots as one" magic.

[Andrej Stancak]

Thanks, Chris, this is very helpful. I hope to be able to to reproduce the exact body and head orientations in Z315 and Mary Moorman picture to check your estimate with a different approach.

However, I also see a good point in Joe's comment too - did the mass of the tissue really go off from the President's head in Mary Moorman picture? Could there be a double shot with Mary Moorman only capturing the first, maybe the less devastating head shot?