The Marilyn Monroe/Kennedys Hoax: Part 1

[Ron Bulman]

I don't remember when I first read or maybe heard on tv that JFK had (reportedly) had had an "affair" with Monroe.  Indicating it was more than a passing acquaintance.  Nor do I remember which came next, seeing the Happy Birthday Mr. President performance or hearing that Bobby also had an affair with her.  All this coming along with stories of JFK having affairs with multiple other women, nude pool parties with the secretaries when Jackie was gone, others procuring hookers for him at the Whitehouse and anytime he went out of town without Jackie.

It got to the point I wondered how he got as much work done as he supposedly had if he was fooling around virtually all of the time.  I also wondered how it had been covered up completely even at that time, if it was going on all the time.

Then came the part about Bobby being involved in her "suicide" to protect JFK's reputation of their affair(s).  Then Bobby was there!  What?

But the one that made me think that's just too much to believe is the suppository BS.  I don't remember where I read about it either, I don't do grocery store check out rags.  But I never knew it came from Giancana's  brother's book Double Cross which I never bothered to read (didn't he push the Judith Exner story?).  First, drugging someone to the point that what I remember they said was done, or, taking advantage of someone who had taken enough drugs to do so without their knowledge is reprehensible.  Second, what I read implied it was more than a suppository, delivering drugs into the intestinal tract which I find disgusting.  We live in a modern society.  What ever two or three or more Consenting adults want to do to each other, that's between them.  This goes beyond that.

What kind of sick individual could dream up such a despicable way to suicide someone as cover to prevent an affair being exposed?  Gottlieb and the CIA?  They had many ways to do so much more easily.  RFK?  Oh come on, really?  The MOB?  Like the CIA they had other easier methods available.  The story just seemed ridiculous.

I began to wonder further, how much if any of what I'd read/seen previously was true.  Looks like not much.

[James DiEugenio]

Pamela, I was just kidding.😀  We published you did we not?

If you read the essay, big if I guess, I first got interested in this with the Hersh/Cusack imbroglio back in 1997.  I was unaware that a whole mini industry existed in marketing pernicious deceits about MM, JFK and RFK.  It fascinated me that Hersh would fall for such a character as Cusack, who misrepresented himself and his father. 

I called up the guy who did the typewriter test for ABC.  Afterwards, I found it hard to comprehend how Hersh, who made his living out of a typewriter for decades, could fall for the more obvious giveaways. (David Samuels article, which I source, is a good one on this.)

I also find it hard to comprehend how writers can fall for people like Smathers when it is easy to check and find that MM was not at the White House as he says she was.  McGovern's book is quite strong on this since he checked both the calendar records, and the two day by day books on MM.  All you have to is lay them side by side and you can expose Smathers. Slatzer is even easier.  And so is Carmen.  So, what do we make of writers who rely on such people?  What would happen to them in the JFK field?  We would expose them and marginalize or disregard them.  So why the double standard?

For example, for many years, some writers, like John Davis, insisted the Kennedys were in on the CIA Mafia Plots to kill Castro.  I actually fell for that. 🤮

When the IG Report was declassified, that turned out to be false.

I won't fall for it again. I won't play the sucker for Dick Helms.

Edited May 23, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[Joe Bauer]

2 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

That's just weird.  Who is this guy, is it a permanent tattoo?  Is there a story behind it?  If he gains much more weight in his belly ... it will become a stretch limo. 

HA HA HA HA HA... almost falling down laughing!

This isn't your belly is it David?

[David Andrews]

21 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

This isn't your belly is it David?

I wish.  I'd have less weight to lose.  So I could smoke even more.

Is it too morbid to wonder if that guy has the funeral on his other flank?

Edited May 23, 2020 by David Andrews

[Kirk Gallaway]

Hey Dave, i think you may know the answer to this question. If you do, just say you do. I'm curious if others do.

What is the source of the JFK era lyric?----No googling!

"There's a scout troop short a child

Khrushev's due at Idylwild"

[Joe Bauer]

On 5/22/2020 at 7:33 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Joe, it, was not a party, it was a dinner.

Jim - party, dinner, social get together? Does a specific description distinctly matter?

Did Monroe know that Lawford was looking for other attractive and available women to attend this dinner besides herself?

If he was I think most would know what that kind of social event enhancing was all about. 

And an important point or question would then be, did MM honestly believe Lawford's motive for inviting her ( besides other single women ) to this dinner was purely because of his innocent friendship with her and thinking she would simply like the conversation with others...or was it more for the hot female company pleasure of high powered male attendees?

 Maybe I'm wrong about the Lawford dinner, MM's invitation and this reported extra social sex enhancement effort on Lawford's part.

If I am I will admit I need to check my facts much more thoroughly than I have been.

Calling Lawford a "pimp" without knowing the deep research is wrong. However, in what reading and video interviews I have watched where Lawford is mentioned, this description of Lawford has been proposed before.

I read the first 20% of your essay. I promise I will read it all soon.

 

 Lawford liked MM.  He was in tears when he got the news.  And MM had a difficult day, since Schiller was trying to convince her to pose nude for Playboy and Newcomb did not want her to. Plus she had two sessions with her psychiatrist.

I am sure Lawford liked MM. What beautiful female loving male wouldn't? And many, many times people who knew Marilyn described her a genuinely kind, generous, sweet natured and pleasant person.

Sadly, it sounded like "every day" for MM for months and even years near her end were difficult ones.

Quote

The idea that Lawford was a pimp is as nutty as saying Giancana was involved in her death,  and he sent two guys over in in a limousine and gave her a hot shot in the heart.  I guess you didn't read the essay Joe.  I don't go for character assassination.    And you should know that.  Its cheapjack writers I go after, and I did.

Can it be proven that Lawford wasn't "ever" a kind of social connection facilitator between top stars, celebrities and politicians?

Lawford would be perfect in this high society social role.

He was European urbane and moved in the highest social strata circles easily.

He was married to a Kennedy for 12 years!

He was an extremely good looking man, tall, athletic, well dressed, well spoken,  pleasantly charming, came from money and even had some royal lineage in his ancestral background.

Yet, Lawford also hung out with "The Rat Pack?"

Led by Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin who were not exactly Princeton grads.

These were tough Hoboken, N.J.and Steubenville, Ohio tenement neighborhood raised second generation Italian street guys who often referred to women as " dames" and "broads" and occasionally hung out with guys named Carmine, Mo Mo and Jilly.

Sinatra was even Mafia. Please, no debate on this common knowledge point.

Lawford oddly mixed with both circles ( until Sinatra cut him off over the humiliating cancelled JFK visit to Sinatra's home ) and that incongruous fact begs legitimate questions about Lawford and his character by association imo. 

Or how about RFK waiting for his wife to get to sleep, having a driver smash two gates, going to an airport, flying over the Santa Cruz mountains--in defiance of the Venturi Effect at night, landing somewhere in LA and driving to Brentwood--when MM is already dead, or at least in a comatose state. Or did you miss that?

I'm not at all promoting any JFK or RFK/MM death conspiracy.

What I do believe is that Marilyn Monroe could very well have been a serious threat to extremely high powered people in her fragile end of life mental state combined with what I believe were some deep resentments she had developed over the years regards feeling used and abused by some of these persons.

If MM did actually tell anyone close to her that she was even thinking of going public with her resentful feelings and intimate sexual affair knowledge of these high station men, it's just common sense to believe some of them would feel they could never allow this to happen.

So, obviously I feel MM's death could be the result of a threat removal by someone of great wealth and power. Framing JFK and RFK for her death sounds like the work of someone else trying to take them down though.

Now, I absolutely do feel Dorothy Killgallen was murdered versus suicide.

The death scene and her positioning in this is even more suggestive of fowl play than MM. To such a degree it's absurdly obvious.

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[James DiEugenio]

Joe:

To respond to everything you say above would take a post of inordinate length.

But just to reply briefly to some of them:

1. Yes there is a difference between a dinner and a party.  I think most people understand that.  Hoover had his agents follow Bobby to parties, which are more open, not to dinners, which are usually closed.

2.  Can you please be specific about the people in high places MM was going to yack her mouth off about?  

3.  Lawford could not even talk about MM's death for years because he felt he should have gone over there and picked her up and this would have prevented the tragedy.  The morning after JFK  was killed, Lawford drank a bottle of scotch, and then started ringing the bell at top of his house and then fell down and started weeping.  He was at the meeting when Bobby Kennedy told the clan that he knew JFK had been killed by a high level conspiracy.  And Lawford was the only person to ever talk about that.

4. Can you please spell out  what you are implying by your dark  imputations about that dinner that night? 

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[David Andrews]

14 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Hey Dave, i think you may know the answer to this question. If you do, just say you do. I'm curious if others do.

What is the source of the JFK era lyric?----No googling!

"There's a scout troop short a child

Khrushev's due at Idylwild"

I was just about to write, "ARRRGGGHHHH! I can hear it in my head but I can't remember!"  But then I remembered, w/o googling.

Where else could a kid hear such a catalog of urban catastrophe?

"Car 54, where are you-ooouuu?"

There's a hold up in the Bronx, Brooklyn's broken out in vice!  Like New York had only one precinct.

***

I'm sorry to hijack, but I also remember my first experience with TV news, which had commercials for a kind of sofa-bed called Castro Convertibles.  I wondered, "Why doesn't the president like this guy?"

That company must have gotten nasty phone calls from Alabama in 1962, the way guys named Al Nino and Al Kyda got them.

It was the Serpico of its day...

Edited May 23, 2020 by David Andrews

[Kirk Gallaway]

That's funny! I was hoping to give it a day, but I see you couldn't help yourself. That's cool!

That is perfectly how I wanted it to  be,  that you're memory would be jogged with some effort. 

[James DiEugenio]

Ron:

Don McGovern's section on the anal suppository that is the basis for the trashy book Double Cross proves that to be just as much rubbish as the rest of the novel.  So you are not alone on that one at all.

He spends five pages on that issue in his usual thorough way examining all the angles and says that if such were the case the blood and liver   readings would have been different. (p. 514)

Also the chemicals used in the suppository to make it fast  acting and disappearing were not available in 1962, they were a decade or two off in to the future. (ibid)

This is the kind of work this guy does.   His history of the helicopter for the chapter on GIlroy is worth the price of the book. 

But with his work on the suppository scam, the Giancana book has now been exposed as a farce in every major tenet.  From what I read that was a book editor's scheme, the Giancana's first draft was not spicy enough.  So they jazzed it up with all this phony stuff about Exner, Joe Kennedy's bootlegging--absolute bunk--Chicago. mob in. West Virginia,  more Exnerian bunk exposed by two books by author from West Virginia who ere in the campaign,  and how Chicago got stolen to win the election, when in fact the actual mob controlled  districts had slightly less turnout than 1956.  And to think Newman used the Giancana book in his last volume.  As they say at the end of Some Like it Hot: Nobody's Perfect.

Edited May 23, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[Pamela Brown]

21 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Pamela, I was just kidding.😀  We published you did we not?

If you read the essay, big if I guess, I first got interested in this with the Hersh/Cusack imbroglio back in 1997.  I was unaware that a whole mini industry existed in marketing pernicious deceits about MM, JFK and RFK.  It fascinated me that Hersh would fall for such a character as Cusack, who misrepresented himself and his father. 

I called up the guy who did the typewriter test for ABC.  Afterwards, I found it hard to comprehend how Hersh, who made his living out of a typewriter for decades, could fall for the more obvious giveaways. (David Samuels article, which I source, is a good one on this.)

I also find it hard to comprehend how writers can fall for people like Smathers when it is easy to check and find that MM was not at the White House as he says she was.  McGovern's book is quite strong on this since he checked both the calendar records, and the two day by day books on MM.  All you have to is lay them side by side and you can expose Smathers. Slatzer is even easier.  And so is Carmen.  So, what do we make of writers who rely on such people?  What would happen to them in the JFK field?  We would expose them and marginalize or disregard them.  So why the double standard?

For example, for many years, some writers, like John Davis, insisted the Kennedys were in on the CIA Mafia Plots to kill Castro.  I actually fell for that. 🤮

When the IG Report was declassified, that turned out to be false.

I won't fall for it again. I won't play the sucker for Dick Helms.

Jim, that was irony. 

You did indeed publish Inside 'Inside the Target Car'.  Now it is also on Kindle...

https://www.amazon.com/Inside-Target-Car-development-Discovery-ebook/dp/B0826FQ6JC/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=inside+inside+the+target+car+pamela+brown&qid=1590281452&sr=8-1

I am in agreement with sorting everything out.  I do think there are a lot of hoops to jump through to get MM completely away from the Kennedys though...

[Pamela Brown]

20 hours ago, David Andrews said:

I wish.  I'd have less weight to lose.  So I could smoke even more.

Is it too morbid to wonder if that guy has the funeral on his other flank?

I too am aghast.  Altgens 1-6 on the belly.  What is this world coming to...

[David Andrews]

9 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

I too am aghast.  Altgens 1-6 on the belly.  What is this world coming to...

 

Is there any truth to the rumor that Dylan wrote a song called "From an Altgens 6"?

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by David Andrews

[Pamela Brown]

2 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

 

Is there any truth to the rumor that Dylan wrote a song called "From an Altgens 6"?

 

Love this song.  But no, I don't think Dylan knows what the Altgens 1-6 is...yet...so you never know...

[David Andrews]

19 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

Love this song.  But no, I don't think Dylan knows what the Altgens 1-6 is...yet...so you never know...

I disagree.  The lyrics to "From an Altgens 6" are reprinted in The Apocryphal Bob Dylan, 1962-1966:

I got this midnight blue limo and all these motorcycle cops

In the middle of Elm Street, y’know, the driver just stops

He said he slowed down but the taillight was glowin’ bright red

Well, if I fall down dyin’, y’know that someone put a price upon my head

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by David Andrews