Tosh and Al

[John Ritchson]

I just wanted to thank you both for your feedback. You've helped me in more ways than you can ever know. For the past 30 years I've been trying to make sense out of some events which occured during my active duty stint in Laos at Lime Sierra 21 located about 25º north Latitude by 101º east longitude I don't precisely remember minutes and seconds but I think you've got the idea of the general area of operation. At any rate the C-cube bunkers located at the various LS sites had been rigged with deadman charges which could be detonated from a remote location and if I happened by a stroke of fate/luck? to not have been at the fuel shed wrestling a 55 gallon drum of JP-4 when she cooked off, and if there hadn't been a 2nd Recon Jarhead name of Leon Marchand to hump my sorry ass off to a dust-off point, I wouldn't be here to tell the tale as it were.

I'm now convinced that I wasn't supposed to survive that tour and I've had a real hard time believing my own government concidered me just another expendable asset and I'm now giving a lot more credence to April Oliver's expose'

on Operation Tailwind because a lot of good men didn't make it back to the world in 71 and you guys are varifying [bOO-COO] info I got from other [Players] from Strat-Com, Operation Whitestar and such which I had a real hard time believing and accepting.

So just to be on the safe side, some years back I decided to take out an [insurance Policy] as it were and I'm real glad now that I followed my Gut Instinct

instead of just letting it slide because being a 11Boo Doggy Scout I figured I was just [Ti-Ti] small-fry but appearently, that didn't matter much with those people

and now thanks to you I'm beginning to understand the why's about it all and why I'm the last survivor of team ECHO.

Therefore, I would concider it an honor and privledge to pull your slack anywhere, anytime should you ever need it as I'm a man who is not without resources, field-craft, and/or other particulars.

Respectfully:

[Dawn Meredith]

I just wanted to thank you both for your feedback. You've helped me in more ways than you can ever know. For the past 30 years I've been trying to make sense out of some events which occured during my active duty stint in Laos at Lime Sierra 21 located about 25º north Latitude by 101º east longitude I don't precisely remember minutes and seconds but I think you've got the idea of the general area of operation. At any rate the C-cube bunkers located at the various LS sites had been rigged with deadman charges which could be detonated from a remote location and if I happened by a stroke of fate/luck? to not have been at the fuel shed wrestling a 55 gallon drum of JP-4 when she cooked off, and if there hadn't been a 2nd Recon Jarhead name of Leon Marchand to hump my sorry ass off to a dust-off point, I wouldn't be here to tell the tale as it were.

  I'm now convinced that I wasn't supposed to survive that tour and I've had a real hard time believing my own government concidered me just another expendable asset and I'm now giving a lot more credence to April Oliver's expose'

on Operation Tailwind because a lot of good men didn't make it back to the world in 71 and you guys are varifying [bOO-COO] info I got from other [Players] from Strat-Com, Operation Whitestar and such which I had a real hard time believing and accepting.

  So just to be on the safe side, some years back I decided to take out an [insurance Policy] as it were and I'm real glad now that I followed my Gut Instinct

instead of just letting it slide because being a 11Boo Doggy Scout I figured I was just [Ti-Ti] small-fry but appearently, that didn't matter much with those people

and now thanks to you I'm beginning to understand the why's about it all and why I'm the last survivor of team ECHO.

  Therefore, I would concider it an honor and privledge to pull your slack anywhere, anytime should you ever need it as I'm a man who is not without resources, field-craft, and/or other particulars. 

  Respectfully: 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

__________________________

Diddo, we all owe a debt of gratitude to Tosh and Al. Thanks for your imput and insights.

Dawn

[Al Carrier]

I just wanted to thank you both for your feedback. You've helped me in more ways than you can ever know. For the past 30 years I've been trying to make sense out of some events which occured during my active duty stint in Laos at Lime Sierra 21 located about 25º north Latitude by 101º east longitude I don't precisely remember minutes and seconds but I think you've got the idea of the general area of operation. At any rate the C-cube bunkers located at the various LS sites had been rigged with deadman charges which could be detonated from a remote location and if I happened by a stroke of fate/luck? to not have been at the fuel shed wrestling a 55 gallon drum of JP-4 when she cooked off, and if there hadn't been a 2nd Recon Jarhead name of Leon Marchand to hump my sorry ass off to a dust-off point, I wouldn't be here to tell the tale as it were.

  I'm now convinced that I wasn't supposed to survive that tour and I've had a real hard time believing my own government concidered me just another expendable asset and I'm now giving a lot more credence to April Oliver's expose'

on Operation Tailwind because a lot of good men didn't make it back to the world in 71 and you guys are varifying [bOO-COO] info I got from other [Players] from Strat-Com, Operation Whitestar and such which I had a real hard time believing and accepting.

  So just to be on the safe side, some years back I decided to take out an [insurance Policy] as it were and I'm real glad now that I followed my Gut Instinct

instead of just letting it slide because being a 11Boo Doggy Scout I figured I was just [Ti-Ti] small-fry but appearently, that didn't matter much with those people

and now thanks to you I'm beginning to understand the why's about it all and why I'm the last survivor of team ECHO.

  Therefore, I would concider it an honor and privledge to pull your slack anywhere, anytime should you ever need it as I'm a man who is not without resources, field-craft, and/or other particulars. 

  Respectfully: 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

__________________________

Diddo, we all owe a debt of gratitude to Tosh and Al. Thanks for your imput and insights.

Dawn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

John and Dawn,

Thank you for the kind words.

John, this is why I have never been able to accept the possibility of Anti-Castro Cubans who went onto other operations and mafia figures to have been involved in the assassination in DP.

Charles Harrelson, the drug addicted second-rate hit man even said it when interviewed from prison on TMWKK. He stated that if he would have been involved in it, he would have been killed. Even this boob understood that.

Then to believe that planners would be present to watch the shooting go down is as rediculous. Deniability at the planning level and removing the players is the only way to keep this issue unsolved as long as it has been.

I cannot accept that this would be entrusted to emotionally motivated exiles and known organized crime figures. How long would that remain a secret?

Al

[Ron Ecker]

Al,

Would you agree that anti-Castro Cubans (e.g. the Dark Complected Man) and Mafia figures (e.g. Jim Braden) were in Dealey Plaza that day, playing whatever minor roles they might have been assigned, basically to have them available as potential fall guys or "false sponsors"?

If that's what happened, I would say that such use of them worked well, since they have provided false leads for 41 years.

Ron

[Al Carrier]

Al,

Would you agree that anti-Castro Cubans (e.g. the Dark Complected Man) and Mafia figures (e.g. Jim Braden) were in Dealey Plaza that day, playing whatever minor roles they might have been assigned, basically to have them available as potential fall guys or "false sponsors"?

If that's what happened, I would say that such use of them worked well, since  they have provided false leads for 41 years.

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ron,

As far as DCM goes, we are talking Dallas, TX. Then and today, you cannot walk a half a block without crossing paths with a Latino. If you look closely at the plaza prior to and the aftermath, the employee rosters of those in and around DP, you would find ample Latino's. To label DCM as an Anti-Castro Cuban is a stretch to say the least. Even if he was, there was no shortage of them in Dallas in '63. That is a long shot from being placed there. If he would have been and a true immediate investigation had taken place, would his presence and backtracking of connections been a compromise to the operation? Braden was a second rate organized crime gopher to say the least. His presence being associated to the assassination is another stretch. Would you trust the likes of Braden to be sent there to confuse the issues and expect him to remain silent if grilled?

The key to the success of this operation was to create a diversion of attention at the time of the shots and this was successfully done, and allowed the shooters to escape the arena of operation. To draw attention in the aftermath to the supposed Oswald window would be motivation for a Communist Conspiracy, with the latter discovery of multiple shot origins. There would be no need for others present within the confines of the plaza to aid in this and adding additional persons who could be detained and investigated would only complicate the deniability of the operation.

Al

[Ron Ecker]

To label DCM as an Anti-Castro Cuban is a stretch to say the least. Even if he was, there was no shortage of them in Dallas in '63. That is a long shot from being placed there. If he would have been and a true immediate investigation had taken place, would his presence and backtracking of connections been a compromise to the operation?

IMO it was known before the break of dawn that day, indeed before the whole covert operation was set into motion, that there would be no "true immediate investigation." The absence of such an investigation was built into the conspiracy.

Braden was a second rate organized crime gopher to say the least. His presence being associated to the assassination is another stretch. Would you trust the likes of Braden to be sent there to confuse the issues and expect him to remain silent if grilled?

Again your question assumes the possibility of a "true immediate investigation." There was never going to be one. As you know, Braden was released soon after his arrest to go back to the Cabana, from whence his cohort Morgan Brown had already skipped town.

As for Braden remaining silent in any case, I believe mobsters are pretty good at that, when they know that talking can get you five or six bullets in the mouth (a la Sam Giancana) or dismembered and stuffed in an oil drum (a la Johnny Roselli).

With regard to DCM, what is suspicious about him is not merely that he was a Latino, but his behavior, not just in whatever he was doing with his hand raised at the curbside within a few feet of JFK, but in then sitting calmly down on the curb, beside another suspicious individual and with chaos all around them, as if taking a work break.

The same goes for Braden. He was arrested not for his organized-crime background, which no one could know just by looking at him, but because of suspicious behavior. (Why was he even arrested? Because a couple of honest Dallas cops were doing their job, like many of them did that weekend, all for nothing.)

The key to the success of this operation was to create a diversion of attention at the time of the shots and this was successfully done, and allowed the shooters to escape the arena of operation. To draw attention in the aftermath to the supposed Oswald window would be motivation for a Communist Conspiracy, with the latter discovery of multiple shot origins. There would be no need for others present within the confines of the plaza to aid in this and adding additional persons who could be detained and investigated would only complicate the deniability of the operation.

Fair enough, but it looks like I read too much into a passage in your thread “How Intelligence and Military Interact” about the manual for covert operations in Central America and how this might relate to Dealey Plaza:

“(The manual) referred to both true operational and false operational cover procedures. Elements of indigenous personnel were to be utilized for access to targets and for blame of operational success and failure as a hands-on participant, when they were not. Organized crime would be utilized for financing and money laundering of such operations and could also be utilized to blame for such operations.”

In viewing Dallas as an intelligence/military covert operation, it seemed obvious to me in reading the above passage that the term “indigenous personnel” could be substituted with Oswald, Alpha 66, Interpen, DPD, Ruby, or fill in the blank, and that the term “organized crime” is self-explanatory, with respect to patsies or false sponsors to be “utilized to blame” if need be.

Ron

[Al Carrier]

To label DCM as an Anti-Castro Cuban is a stretch to say the least. Even if he was, there was no shortage of them in Dallas in '63. That is a long shot from being placed there. If he would have been and a true immediate investigation had taken place, would his presence and backtracking of connections been a compromise to the operation?

IMO it was known before the break of dawn that day, indeed before the whole covert operation was set into motion, that there would be no "true immediate investigation." The absence of such an investigation was built into the conspiracy.

Ron, I find it extremely hard to believe that those who set up the assassination was also the ones who covered it up. It would only take a handful of individuals to set up the assassination. On a Lancer thread, I spoke of the levels of complicency in staging such an operation. The higher powers set the wheels in motion by contacting a field agent, who would in turn make a decision on when and where. This agent would then recruit the military personnel who he or she would have in reach and give them the assignment. The shooting team would then go to the location (city), study the intelligence as far as route, etc, make the plans for the ambush and also a back-up plan if possible.

I truely believe that the cover-up was ready for wherever the hit was to take place, not because they were part of it, but they had intel that it was going to happen and that they could not stop it and did not want it out that the assassination was formed inside the government, which would be embarrassing to say the least, and expose a great deal of intelligence and shortcomings within the government. Miami and Chicago is an example of how it was avoided on a case by case basis until intel let them down in Dallas.

There is no possible way for the conspirators or those involved in the aftermath coverup to prevent an immediate investigation. With all of the LE agencies involved and all of the personnel from those agencies on-hand in the Plaza, they could not prevent the wrong people from being stopped, shaken down or worse if one of the radical anti-castro cubans was found armed.

Braden was a second rate organized crime gopher to say the least. His presence being associated to the assassination is another stretch. Would you trust the likes of Braden to be sent there to confuse the issues and expect him to remain silent if grilled?

Again your question assumes the possibility of a "true immediate investigation." There was never going to be one. As you know, Braden was released soon after his arrest to go back to the Cabana, from whence his cohort Morgan Brown had already skipped town.

The key here is that Braden was detained and info obtained from him. The Dallas PD and Sheriff's Office was not part of the conspiracy, but were simply negligent in not shutting down the plaza and detaining all of the wits. God knows there was enough to secure it, instead they ran around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to work the damned scene. Opening up traffic to the plaza and allowing onlookers to leave is rediculous, but not criminal. Just incompetent.

As for Braden remaining silent in any case, I believe mobsters are pretty good at that, when they know that talking can get you five or six bullets in the mouth (a la Sam Giancana) or dismembered and stuffed in an oil drum (a la Johnny Roselli).

Is that why Files is confessing to every major crime of the twentieth century, why Harrelson in a heroin induced state confessed to the assassination, why every mafia punk over the twenty-five year period after the assassination that was looking at serious time squeeled like a pig and wore wires and aided in inserting undercover Feds into the mob until the major crime families were taken down? Some code of silence.

With regard to DCM, what is suspicious about him is not merely that he was a Latino, but his behavior, not just in whatever he was doing with his hand raised at the curbside within a few feet of JFK, but in then sitting calmly down on the curb, beside another suspicious individual and with chaos all around them, as if taking a work break.

If you were there to signal the shooters, would you sit down at the curb after it was over, or would you take advantage of the confusion following the shooting to get out?

The same goes for Braden. He was arrested not for his organized-crime background, which no one could know just by looking at him, but because of suspicious behavior. (Why was he even arrested? Because a couple of honest Dallas cops were doing their job, like many of them did that weekend, all for nothing.)

I guess I don't see dishonesty in the others, simply incompetence and getting over excited and failing to do their basic duties.

The key to the success of this operation was to create a diversion of attention at the time of the shots and this was successfully done, and allowed the shooters to escape the arena of operation. To draw attention in the aftermath to the supposed Oswald window would be motivation for a Communist Conspiracy, with the latter discovery of multiple shot origins. There would be no need for others present within the confines of the plaza to aid in this and adding additional persons who could be detained and investigated would only complicate the deniability of the operation.

Fair enough, but it looks like I read too much into a passage in your thread “How Intelligence and Military Interact” about the manual for covert operations in Central America and how this might relate to Dealey Plaza:

“(The manual) referred to both true operational and false operational cover procedures. Elements of indigenous personnel were to be utilized for access to targets and for blame of operational success and failure as a hands-on participant, when they were not. Organized crime would be utilized for financing and money laundering of such operations and could also be utilized to blame for such operations.”

In viewing Dallas as an intelligence/military covert operation, it seemed obvious to me in reading the above passage that the term “indigenous personnel” could be substituted with Oswald, Alpha 66, Interpen, DPD, Ruby, or fill in the blank, and that the term “organized crime” is self-explanatory, with respect to patsies or false sponsors to be “utilized to blame” if need be.

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ron, you are looking at two totally seperate types of operations. What the COM was referring to is foreign operations where indiginous personnel were required to insert and navigate military operators where they should not be. The same goes for funding as these operations, such as Nicaragua got very expensive (especially with all the pocket lining done) and their were no financial accounts for it. How expensive would it be to send these teams into DP and carry this out. How tough would it be for a military sniper team to go into Dallas without assistance, scout and carry out this operation?

Al

Edited December 22, 2004 by Al Carrier

[Tim Carroll]

I truely believe that the cover-up was ready for wherever the hit was to take place, not because they were part of it, but they had intel that it was going to happen and that they could not stop it and did not want it out that the assassination was formed inside the government, which would be embarrassing to say the least, and expose a great deal of intelligence and shortcomings within the government. Miami and Chicago is an example of how it was avoided on a case by case basis until intel let them down in Dallas.

There is no possible way for the conspirators or those involved in the aftermath coverup to prevent an immediate investigation. With all of the LE agencies involved and all of the personnel from those agencies on-hand in the Plaza, they could not prevent the wrong people from being stopped, shaken down or worse if one of the radical anti-castro cubans was found armed.[/color]  [isn't that one of the benefits of using them?]

Braden was a second rate organized crime gopher to say the least. His presence being associated to the assassination is another stretch. Would you trust the likes of Braden to be sent there to confuse the issues and expect him to remain silent if grilled? [so what if he didn't?  He had no governmental standing or credibility]

The Dallas PD and Sheriff's Office was not part of the conspiracy, but were simply negligent in not shutting down the plaza and detaining all of the wits. God knows there was enough to secure it, instead they ran around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to work the damned scene. [so where is the list of license plates in the North Knoll parking lot?]  Opening up traffic to the plaza and allowing onlookers to leave is rediculous, but not criminal. Just incompetent.  [but they had massive personnel to pursue a report of a non-paying movie-goer]

...Files is confessing to every major crime of the twentieth century, why Harrelson in a heroin induced state confessed to the assassination, why every mafia punk over the twenty-five year period after the assassination that was looking at serious time squeeled like a pig and wore wires and aided in inserting undercover Feds into the mob until the major crime families were taken down? Some code of silence.  [doesn't this miss the point that if this type talks, it doesn't matter anyway?]

If you were there to signal the shooters, would you sit down at the curb after it was over, or would you take advantage of the confusion following the shooting to get out? [Yes, that is the behaviour of a pro - never move away too quickly.  DCM didn't sit there long.]

The same goes for Braden. He was arrested not for his organized-crime background, which no one could know just by looking at him, but because of suspicious behavior. (Why was he even arrested? Because a couple of honest Dallas cops were doing their job, like many of them did that weekend, all for nothing.) [then on what basis was he released without a background check or ascertaining that no wrongdoing was committed from his location?]

I guess I don't see dishonesty in the others, simply incompetence and getting over excited and failing to do their basic duties.  [And you see the live TV murder of the most important interogatee in the 20th century as an innocent flub?]

What the COM was referring to is foreign operations where indiginous personnel were required to insert and navigate military operators where they should not be. The same goes for funding as these operations, such as Nicaragua got very expensive (especially with all the pocket lining done) and their were no financial accounts for it. How expensive would it be to send these teams into DP and carry this out. How tough would it be for a military sniper team to go into Dallas without assistance, scout and carry out this operation?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It seems that Al thinks that all questionable police misconduct can be explained as innocent mistakes or accidents and all complex operations are military, but that ignores the mindset that begat the School of the Americas in the first place. Was QJ/WIN American? Did ZR/RIFLE use military personnel? Is there some assumption that indigenous or underworld operatives can't be trained in such operations as well as domestic-born people? As for the flipping out of such low-lifes, how many special ops folks have gone nutty? Providing a high degree of training to such deniable operatives was the whole point of JM/WAVE and Executive Action.

“(The manual) [COM?] referred to both true operational and false operational cover procedures. Elements of indigenous personnel were to be utilized for access to targets and for blame of operational success and failure as a hands-on participant, when they were not. Organized crime would be utilized for financing and money laundering of such operations and could also be utilized to blame for such operations.”

Tim

Edited December 22, 2004 by Tim Carroll

[Al Carrier]

I truely believe that the cover-up was ready for wherever the hit was to take place, not because they were part of it, but they had intel that it was going to happen and that they could not stop it and did not want it out that the assassination was formed inside the government, which would be embarrassing to say the least, and expose a great deal of intelligence and shortcomings within the government. Miami and Chicago is an example of how it was avoided on a case by case basis until intel let them down in Dallas.

There is no possible way for the conspirators or those involved in the aftermath coverup to prevent an immediate investigation. With all of the LE agencies involved and all of the personnel from those agencies on-hand in the Plaza, they could not prevent the wrong people from being stopped, shaken down or worse if one of the radical anti-castro cubans was found armed.[/color]  [isn't that one of the benefits of using them?]

Tim, Why would they need them? What purpose would umbrella man and DCM serve? Could they see the president's injuries better than a rifleman panning the target with a scope? Wouldn't the rifleman when in doubt of the success fire again regardless? A headshot is quite evident would suffice in stopping the shot sequence.

Braden was a second rate organized crime gopher to say the least. His presence being associated to the assassination is another stretch. Would you trust the likes of Braden to be sent there to confuse the issues and expect him to remain silent if grilled? [so what if he didn't?  He had no governmental standing or credibility]

So why is he being the center of discussion now. I wonder what his IQ was. I would trust him?

The Dallas PD and Sheriff's Office was not part of the conspiracy, but were simply negligent in not shutting down the plaza and detaining all of the wits. God knows there was enough to secure it, instead they ran around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to work the damned scene. [so where is the list of license plates in the North Knoll parking lot?]  Opening up traffic to the plaza and allowing onlookers to leave is rediculous, but not criminal. Just incompetent.  [but they had massive personnel to pursue a report of a non-paying movie-goer]

Ever been in a stressful situation where you had to make decisions on your feet within a minute or two and then the moment was lost? Incompetence at the time of the act does not spell out conspiracy. There overagressiveness to pursue the murderer of one of their own is acceptable. Would you pursue the murderer of a family member stronger than that of a stranger?

...Files is confessing to every major crime of the twentieth century, why Harrelson in a heroin induced state confessed to the assassination, why every mafia punk over the twenty-five year period after the assassination that was looking at serious time squeeled like a pig and wore wires and aided in inserting undercover Feds into the mob until the major crime families were taken down? Some code of silence.  [doesn't this miss the point that if this type talks, it doesn't matter anyway?]

What?

If you were there to signal the shooters, would you sit down at the curb after it was over, or would you take advantage of the confusion following the shooting to get out? [Yes, that is the behaviour of a pro - never move away too quickly.  DCM didn't sit there long.]

The reason for diversions and crowd hysteria in such a case is to take advantage of it and blend in to escape. Not to sit down and rest and then casually walk out. How long could they expect the DPD and Sheriff's Deputies to fail to do their duty?

The same goes for Braden. He was arrested not for his organized-crime background, which no one could know just by looking at him, but because of suspicious behavior. (Why was he even arrested? Because a couple of honest Dallas cops were doing their job, like many of them did that weekend, all for nothing.) [then on what basis was he released without a background check or ascertaining that no wrongdoing was committed from his location?]

Do you have any idea how many people were being detained and how long it took to do a background check. You think he should have came to the top of the list for what reason?

I guess I don't see dishonesty in the others, simply incompetence and getting over excited and failing to do their basic duties.  [And you see the live TV murder of the most important interogatee in the 20th century as an innocent flub?]

What the COM was referring to is foreign operations where indiginous personnel were required to insert and navigate military operators where they should not be. The same goes for funding as these operations, such as Nicaragua got very expensive (especially with all the pocket lining done) and their were no financial accounts for it. How expensive would it be to send these teams into DP and carry this out. How tough would it be for a military sniper team to go into Dallas without assistance, scout and carry out this operation?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It seems that Al thinks that all questionable police misconduct can be explained as innocent mistakes or accidents and all complex operations are military, but that ignores the mindset that begat the School of the Americas in the first place. Was QJ/WIN American? Did ZR/RIFLE use military personnel? Is there some assumption that indigenous or underworld operatives can't be trained in such operations as well as domestic-born people? As for the flipping out of such low-lifes, how many special ops folks have gone nutty? Providing a high degree of training to such deniable operatives was the whole point of JM/WAVE and Executive Action.

And now you are an expert in the School of the Americas? Have you checked the published class rosters and noticed that all are foreigners? So I and Tosh are making the issues of SOA up on the American attendees and true operational training and procedures? Assassination researchers who love to jump into fantasyland on covert ops and use boogeymen like the mob as part of the schemes cannot fathom reality of how it really works. QJ/WIN IMO was a DEA Undercover Agent in Europe. ZR/RIFLE was ran by a drunken fantasy monger who couldn't produce a productive operation in three years, but yet so many believe he achieved this great task of assassinating a president and getting away with it.

“(The manual) [COM?] referred to both true operational and false operational cover procedures. Elements of indigenous personnel were to be utilized for access to targets and for blame of operational success and failure as a hands-on participant, when they were not. Organized crime would be utilized for financing and money laundering of such operations and could also be utilized to blame for such operations.”

Tim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim,

Sorry you cannot follow this, but reality is so simply sometimes, that it cannot be reached.

Al

[Tim Carroll]

Tim,

Sorry you cannot follow this, but reality is so simply sometimes, that it cannot be reached.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Reality is so simply sometimes?"

[Al Carrier]

Tim,

Sorry you cannot follow this, but reality is so simply sometimes, that it cannot be reached.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Reality is so simply sometimes?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay Tim, you win, I'm an idiot and my post is null and void because of a typo.

Al

[Tim Carroll]

Tim,

Sorry you cannot follow this, but reality is so simply sometimes, that it cannot be reached.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Reality is so simply sometimes?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay Tim, you win, I'm an idiot and my post is null and void because of a typo.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No Al, it's "null and void" because it lacks any content except a condescending attitude.

Tim

[Al Carrier]

Tim,

Sorry you cannot follow this, but reality is so simply sometimes, that it cannot be reached.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Reality is so simply sometimes?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay Tim, you win, I'm an idiot and my post is null and void because of a typo.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No Al, it's "null and void" because it lacks any content except a condescending attitude.

Tim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim,

Then you and your fantasy chasers can continue to chase the fantasies because you refuse to accept input from anyone who has any background to provide, if it differs from what you have determined to be the truth. Your version of content is based on what part of your background to judge it?

Keep comparing photos in the plaza to anyone who breathed in '63 that might have been remotely connected to government operations. Keep running down leads on who had it in for Kennedy and placing them in the mix of the assassins and conspirators. Your list should reach somewhere in the range of 2,000 plus this year.

Congradulations, you have become a part of the problem!

And I thought this was different from the idiots on Lancer!

Al

[Tim Carroll]

Tim,

Sorry you cannot follow this, but reality is so simply sometimes, that it cannot be reached.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Reality is so simply sometimes?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay Tim, you win, I'm an idiot and my post is null and void because of a typo.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No Al, it's "null and void" because it lacks any content except a condescending attitude.

Tim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim,

Then you and your fantasy chasers can continue to chase the fantasies because you refuse to accept input from anyone who has any background to provide, if it differs from what you have determined to be the truth. Your version of content is based on what part of your background to judge it?

Keep comparing photos in the plaza to anyone who breathed in '63 that might have been remotely connected to government operations. Keep running down leads on who had it in for Kennedy and placing them in the mix of the assassins and conspirators. Your list should reach somewhere in the range of 2,000 plus this year.

Congradulations, you have become a part of the problem!

And I thought this was different from the idiots on Lancer!

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Al,

I have not treated you disrespectfully. I have not used words like "idiot" or "fantasy chasers," and I don't think I've "become a part of the problem" for asking questions about QJ/WIN, ZR/RIFLE, AM/LASH or the general purpose underlying JM/WAVE-sponsored skills training and operations. If you're going to attack me on this basis, why not dare to name the others that fall into the same category, such as Ron Ecker, Larry Hancock, James Richards, etc., etc?

Tim

Edited December 22, 2004 by Tim Carroll

[Al Carrier]

Tim,

Sorry you cannot follow this, but reality is so simply sometimes, that it cannot be reached.

Al

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"Reality is so simply sometimes?"

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Okay Tim, you win, I'm an idiot and my post is null and void because of a typo.

Al

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No Al, it's "null and void" because it lacks any content except a condescending attitude.

Tim

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Tim,

Then you and your fantasy chasers can continue to chase the fantasies because you refuse to accept input from anyone who has any background to provide, if it differs from what you have determined to be the truth. Your version of content is based on what part of your background to judge it?

Keep comparing photos in the plaza to anyone who breathed in '63 that might have been remotely connected to government operations. Keep running down leads on who had it in for Kennedy and placing them in the mix of the assassins and conspirators. Your list should reach somewhere in the range of 2,000 plus this year.

Congradulations, you have become a part of the problem!

And I thought this was different from the idiots on Lancer!

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Al,

I have not treated you disrespectfully. I have not used words like "idiot" or "fantasy chasers," and I don't think I've "become a part of the problem" for asking questions about QJ/WIN, ZR/RIFLE, AM/LASH or the general purpose underlying JM/WAVE-sponsored skills training and operations. If you're going to attack me on this basis, why not dare to name the others that fall into the same category, such as Ron Ecker, Larry Hancock, James Richards, etc., etc?

Tim

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You like many others have made your mind up and have challenged anything that contradicts your beliefs with any bone that is thrown at you? Doesn't the release of such rediculous info raise question in your anti-establishment mindset? No, of course not, because you are on a roll with the mafia derelicts and anti-Castro hate mongers who must have been behind this plan that has lasted over forty years without proof of conspiracy.

I cannot argue with illogic.

Here is to the next forty years of short mindedness...

Al