Oswald's language abilities and evidence related to his Soviet soujourn (1959-63)

[Robert Montenegro]

Just now, Bill Simpich said:

Robert, the information on Burris is fascinating - as you say, he was one of LBJ's right-hand men, could you provide the links that support your facts?  It's hard to wrap your mind around the deep things you are saying without any documents to understand the context.  Thanks! 

Sure thing! Right off the bat, here are some great links to Col. Burris' background (sorry I cannot provide documents at the moment, but I am working on it!)

http://heathcock.org/genealogy/ps11/ps11_426.html (some genealogy work on Col. Burris)

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/marysdb.php?id=1730&search=delk (a Mary Ferrell entry on Col. Burris)

https://jfkjmn.com/new-page-42/ (a small link to John Newman's 1991 interview with Col. Burris)

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/49223946/howard-lay-burris/photo#view-photo=144555606 (a Find A Grave entry with great photograph of Col. Burris at the Soviet embassy in 1963)

https://www.fpparchive.org/media/documents/communism_and_responses/Possible Discovery of an Automobile Used in the JFK Conspiracy_Richard Bartholomew_1993_nopubisher.pdf (some supplemental information about Col. Burris' CIA connections)

http://jfkcountercoup2.blogspot.com/2019/04/newman-on-jfk-v-lemnitzer-burris-memo.html (a William Kelly blog entry talking about a "back-channel" communication network between the CIA and Vice President Johnson, with Col. Burris as the mouthpiece; also a sneak peek at John Newman's upcoming "Into The Storm JFK Assassination Volume IV Armageddon" book [I also provide a document illustrating a CIA "back-channel" coms-network]).

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Essay_-_Did_the_US_Military_Plan_a_Nuclear_First_Strike_for_1963.html (another Mary Farrell link that shows Col. Burris involved in first-strike, atomic warfare planning)

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Our_Man_in_Haiti/d_0BBAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=burris (Joan Mellen's 2012 book "Our Man in Haiti: George de Mohrenschildt and the CIA in the Nightmare Republic" has excellent information on Col. Burris' CIA connections in planning the second Invasion of Cuba with George de Mohrenschildt, Lee Harvey Oswald's closest "friend")

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Deep_Politics_and_the_Death_of_JFK/zWewDbarT3YC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=burris (Professor Peter Dale Scott's 1996 book "Deep Politics and the Death of JFK" has some great entries on Col. Burris feeding false information to the Kennedy White House about the factual information concerning the situation in Indo-China)

[Robert Montenegro]

Concerning Oswald's movements into the USSR via Switzerland, USAF Col. Howard Lay Burris being the CIA's COS in Geneva and Col. Burris' mission responsibilities, it is interesting that the United States Air Force Office of Special Investigations was the first government agency to open up a counterintelligence file on Lee Harvey Oswald (here is a link to that information: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Dallas_63/-BlZCgAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=OSI)

The creator and first commander of the United States Air Force Office of Special Investigations was a senior FBI official and personal assistant to FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, United States Air Force Lieutenant General Joseph Francis Carroll.

Lt. Gen. Carroll was also the founder and first director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, which oversaw the joint activities of the CIA and the Department of Defense in terms of CIA terrorist activities in Cuba. 

Of course, the U-2 "Dragonlady" was a joint Central Intelligence Agency-United States Air Force project controlled, nominally by two men, CIA Deputy Director of Plans Richard Mervin Bissell Jr. and Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, United States Air Force General Charles Pearre Cabell, both men had overseen the creation of the CIA-backed anti-Castro terrorist networks, like the "Cuban Revolutionary Council", which worked with NASA.

The official cover story for the U-2 overflights into Russia, incidentally, was weather collection information flights controlled by NASA.

Lee Harvey Oswald fully expected to work for NASA while connected to anti-Castro Cuban terrorist (as an agent provocateur under William Guy Banister) networks and had operational knowledge of U-2 overflights into mainland China and Col. Burris ran a CIA-front company with none other than USMC Lt. Col. William Raymond Corson, a hardline counterinsurgency expert for the CIA, and the CIA's top expert on Chinese affairs.

Sure would be nice if someone on this forum would check out those NASA-FBI-CIA Cuban Revolutionary Council files I posted.

I'm looking at you Bill Simpich, you gloriously illuminated, magnificent son-of-a-bitch!

Edited June 15, 2020 by Robert Montenegro

[Robert Montenegro]

I would also note that Col. Howard Lay Burris was the co-founder of the "Cuban Venezuelan Oil Voting Trust Company" with Col. John “Jack” Alston Crichton.

You know, that same "Jack" Crichton who was the CIA-US Army Reserve Intelligence officer in charge of "Operación 40" comptroller activities under United States Naval Reserve Commander Richard M. Nixon and USN Lt. George Herbert Walker “Poppy” Bush (of Zapata Off-Shore/ Dresser Industries/ Project WUBRINY-LPDICTUM infamy).

The same "Jack" Crichton in charge of the covert joint US Army Reserve Intelligence-Dallas Police Department "488th Military Intelligence Detachment" (which resembles in my experience, a Special Activities Division Operational Detachment Alpha structure) with Col. Frank Maryan "Brandy" Brandstetter, Col. George Laster “Lonnie” Lumpkin, Lt. Col. George Luster Whitmeyer, and half of all of the reserve officers in the Dallas Police Department.

The same "Jack" Crichton in charge of CIA fronts like Empire Trust Company and DeGolyer & MacNaughton.

The same "Jack" Crichton who controlled the "Dallas Civil Defense-Office Of Emergency Planning" who provided Ilya Mamantov (of the Sun Oil Company) as a Dallas Police Department translator for Oswald's Russian agent wife.

Makes you wonder just who provided Lee Harvey Oswald with Russian language training before in joined the military Defense Language Institute at Monterey? 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Robert Montenegro

[James Norwood]

23 hours ago, Bill Simpich said:

why didn't they take better care of him.  This is abusive conduct by his handlers.  If he had dedicated two years of his life to his country as an agent, he would not have been worried about criminal charges and he would not have his honor, his income and his future dragged in the dirt.

Bill,

In my thinking about this topic, I keep circling back to the main issue of the thread, namely, Oswald's ability to speak Russian.  This was obviously his principal asset in the Russian sojourn, and indeed he used his time to quietly observe work in the factory, military maneuvers, and daily life, which he recorded in a detailed report upon his return.

At the same time, I believe that you raise a valid point about the shabby treatment Oswald received upon his return.  Is it possible that Oswald's handlers were outraged when they learned that he was bringing home a Russian wife and baby?  It is difficult for me to believe that part of his assignment was to marry a Russian and bring her back to the United States.  Is it plausible (given the preconditions of human nature) that Oswald did not use much discretion when it came to birth control, and, by not using birth control, he unintentionally forced himself into a shotgun wedding, Soviet style?

I would be very interested in learning the views of other respondents as to how and why Oswald was led to the altar during his Soviet sojourn.  Much of the discussion on this thread has dealt with espionage.  But is it possible that a relevant motivation has more to do with the birds and bees and the phenomenon of an “accident” during the Russian sojourn?

[Sandy Larsen]

5 hours ago, Bill Simpich said:

Sandy, Let me offer my thinking on the question about why Oswald's discharge was downgraded.

Generally, an agency takes care of its own.  If you are part of the team, they will fall on their swords for you.  This is why all agencies fight so hard in court to protect their informants and their identities.  If their informant's identity is blown or if the informant goes to jail for their actions, they will lose not only that informant but many other informants.

The same principle goes with agents.  It's one thing if an agent is killed in the field, some things are not preventable.  But having his discharge downgraded to an undesirable discharge by the Marine Corps?  Cutting off his access to employment, the GI Bill and more?

Bill,

Are you aware of those intelligence operations that are so secret that they -- as the intelligence agencies say -- officially don't exist? I held a number of TS security clearances as a young man just out of college, and one of them was with one of those non-existing operations.

I'm hesitant to even say what those operations are called, because I got into trouble back then for using the phrase one time outside the SCIF (secured) area. I didn't realize that the very generic-sounding phrase was actually the official name for the operations! 

I recall that David Phillips used the phrase in his unpublished manuscript, The AMLASH Legacy. He wrote:

"Don returns home to his wife Elaine to find a stranger named Douglas waiting. Douglas is 6' 4" tall.'' Says he was in a "special projects" unit outside the Agency. Very deep. Says he is responsible for Harold's becoming a spook. Douglas has a briefcase with $400,000 in it."

I quote this to give a little support to what I'm about to say. Pay close attention to the bolded part (mine).

I believe that the Oswald Project was one of those "officially does not exist" operations. I believe that Oswald was in deep cover, and as such was left to fend for himself.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Sandy Larsen

[Robert Montenegro]

2 hours ago, James Norwood said:

In my thinking about this topic, I keep circling back to the main issue of the thread, namely, Oswald's ability to speak Russian.  This was obviously his principal asset in the Russian sojourn, and indeed he used his time to quietly observe work in the factory, military maneuvers, and daily life, which he recorded in a detailed report upon his return.

 

25 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Are you aware of those intelligence operations that are so secret that they -- as the intelligence agencies say -- officially don't exist? I held a number of TS security clearances as a young man just out of college, and one of them was with one of those non-existing operations.

I believe that the Oswald Project was one of those "officially does not exist" operations. I believe that Oswald was in deep cover, and as such was left to fend for himself.

Mr. Norwood, you hit the nail right on the head. That is exactly what Oswald was (and others like him, like Robert Webster), deep-cover, long-range reconnaissance operatives, locating the covert, strategic infrastructure of the USSR, mapping it out, photographing it, and sending the bonafides back to the war planners in the Pentagon!  Oswald was the HUMINT gathering side to the photographic analysis that was the U-2 project and the Corona strategic reconnaissance satellites.

Oswald was a "QJ/WIN" type operative, if I may make such a bold observation. 

Oswald was highly strategic, yet expendable to the stove-piped power structure above him.

Like my squad leader used to say to me before a mission outside the Forward Operating Base I was stationed at, "...Monty, you are already dead...an expendable asset...stay alert, stay alive, but no one will save you but yourself..."

That is the mindset that Oswald had. He was his only cover. And only Oswald could save himself. 

Mr. Larsen, bravo! Just bravo! There is no other way to describe how covert Lee Harvey Oswald's mission was in the USSR-bloc infrastructure.

I too was privy to "COSMIC" Top-Secret Compartmentalized information as a forward operations support-combative in Afghanistan, and I can tell you that when it came to cross-border support operations into Pakistan, everything was word of mouth.

Nothing was committed to paper, because the very nature of the operation would damage the entire NATO mission. 

Oswald's "stay-behind" mission was a need to know, eyes only, word of mouth mission, with nothing ever committed to paper.

Just examine who many people surrounding Oswald died of suspicious circumstances after the murder of President Kennedy. No one was ever meant to talk about the particulars of Oswald's operational uses. Or who used him, for that matter.   

Edited June 15, 2020 by Robert Montenegro

[Bill Simpich]

James - I know a number of families have fake wedding days for just this reason!   The documents show that the marriage was 4/30/61 and June's birthdate is 2/15/62,  which adds up to nine and a half months.

Robert - This website quotes Joan Mellen's statement in her book "Our Man In Haiti" (I can't find my copy, her research is good)  that Burris created the Cuban Venezuelan Oil Voting Trust (CVOVT).  What about Crichton - and others? 

In Family of Secrets, pp. 79-82, Russ Baker writes that "by 1950 (George de Mohrenschildt) was working with his former boss, Pantepec president Warren Smith, on the latter's new firm called the Cuban-Venezuelan Oil Voting Trust company (CVOVT).  In passing, de Mohrenschildt mentioned to the Commission that the CVOVT had managed to obtain leases covering nearly half of Cuba."...(WC counsel Albert Jenner, of course, couldn't have cared less.)

"The CVOVT never amounted to much besides promising reports and modest production.  Still it became a Wall Street darling.  Through now almost completely forgotten, on many days in the mid-1950s it was one of the four or five most actively traded issues on the American Stock Exchange...

"The Empire Trust Company, a New York-based bastion of power and wealth, appears to have played a key role in the financing of the (CVOVT)...

"...Empire entrusted its affairs in Texas to Baker Botts, the law firm of James Baker's family...another Empire Trust director was Lewis MacNaughton...the employer of George Bouhe, the Russian emigre who would later introduce George de Mohrenschildt to Lee Harvey Oswald.  Perhaps the most curious of the Empire Trust figures was Jack Crichton, a longtime company vice president (from 1953-1962).  Crichton...quickly became a go-to guy for numerous powerful interests seeking a foothold in the energy arena...he was involved with George de Mohrenschildt in his oil exploration venture in pre-Castro Cuba...

"(After Castro took power) on 11/22/59 the New York Times reported that the new Cuban government had approved a law that would reduce the size of claims for oil exploration and halt large-scale explorations by private companies...among other things, the new law put an end to the go-go days of the Cuban Venezuelan Oil Voting Trust Stock...summed up rather neatly in William A. Doyle's syndicated advice column...8/14/61:

"...The trouble (with CVOVT) is spelled C-a-s-t-r-o...(The CVOVT's) chief cause of grief came when the Communist-oriented Cuban government refused to extend its concession to explore for oil  That just about wrecked this outfit...you'll be lucky if you can get 10 cents a share."

[Sandy Larsen]

5 minutes ago, Robert Montenegro said:

Oswald was the HUMIT gathering side to the photographic analysis that was the U-2 project and the Corona strategic reconnaissance satellites.

 

I don't mean to be one of those spelling cops, but just so that readers can look up the meaning of the acronym, HUMIT should be HUMINT. (I believe. And I think Robert just slipped on the keyboard.)

 

[Robert Montenegro]

1 minute ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I don't mean to be one of those spelling cops, but just so that readers can look up the meaning of the acronym, HUMIT should be HUMINT. (I believe. And I think Robert just slipped on the keyboard.)

 

Ha! I did. 

No please, correct me if I foul up! 

[Bill Simpich]

Sandy,

Oh yes, I agree with you that many intelligence operations don't exist on paper.

A number of the descriptions of intelligence operations are inaccurate.

My approach, generally speaking, is to focus on the operations that we have on paper, and can corroborate.

The critical research community could cover a lot of territory if we took greater interest in the documents that are sitting in the National Archives and elsewhere.  

Many of us have only read books.  Many of us focus on the documents that support our point of view.  Most of us, including me who has spent a lot of time, have not read most of the documents on the JFK case in the Archives that have already been released.

I believe that the better our information is corroborated, the sturdier is the foundation that we are working with, before we delve into operations that don't exist on paper.

[Robert Montenegro]

HUMINT, meaning human intelligence.

Thank you Mr. Larsen!

[Robert Montenegro]

15 minutes ago, Bill Simpich said:

"...The trouble (with CVOVT) is spelled C-a-s-t-r-o...(The CVOVT's) chief cause of grief came when the Communist-oriented Cuban government refused to extend its concession to explore for oil  That just about wrecked this outfit...you'll be lucky if you can get 10 cents a share."

Here is a link to a website selling an actual Cuban Venezuelan Oil Voting Trust Certificate for Common Capital Stock: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/cuban-venezuelan-oil-voting-trust-39499259

Interesting that the seller of the paper stock says the following in there sales pitch:

QUOTE – "...Crichtons personal papers can be found in the Bush Sr. Library. I am really disturbed though that the amount of information on the subject of Cuban pre-revolutionary oil development on the Internet is much less than a year ago including articles in Wikipedia. There used to be information about U.S. oil companies collaborating with Bautista that I can no longer find. Last year, on January 2nd I wrote this article . It tells a very disturbing story that I was easily able to put together from references online. Many of those references do not exist anymore, WTF! Also a large number of articles on the history of U.S. oil companies in Venezuela are gone! History is rewritten in front of our eyes, hello 1984..." – END QUOTE.

Apparently, according to the seller, much of the information that could be found online about C.V.O.V.T. has been deleted over the past five years.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Robert Montenegro

[Jim Hargrove]

21 minutes ago, Bill Simpich said:

My approach, generally speaking, is to focus on the operations that we have on paper, and can corroborate.

Ah, but did you ever seriously expect to find a U.S. government document indicating in any way that Oswald was an agent of the U.S.?  If it ever existed before the assassination of JFK, it certainly wouldn't have existed long after.

To state the obvious though,  even the official cover story sounds as much like a spy saga as I can conjure. You know, the one about the Marine Corps radar operator who worked near American U-2 planes in Japan, who then “defected” to Russia and there said in the American embassy in Moscow that he would give away everything he knew to the Soviets, and who, a couple of years later and after Francis Gary Powers’ U-2 plane was shot down by the Russians, was then loaned the money to return home without penalty.  Really! 

I doubt we'll ever find a document ‘splaining that, but it sure seems obvious that is what happened.  (Powers, of course, publicly blamed Oswald for his shoot down, but for reasons that I won't go into now, Oswald couldn't have had anything to do with it.)

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, Bill Simpich said:

My approach, generally speaking, is to focus on the operations that we have on paper, and can corroborate.

 

Well, sure, everybody want's to find the documents that solve the puzzle. And I hope more and more people can do archive searching. But in the meantime we all have our working theories, which are based on the evidence at hand.

I hope that your post wasn't suggesting that my beliefs are mere speculations. Or that your beliefs, in contrast, are speculation free. EVERY believe and EVERY theory has some speculation to it.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Sandy Larsen

[Bill Simpich]

No, Sandy, but what I am saying is that when discussing a possible "Oswald Project" - that's "not supposed to exist" - it's difficult to enter it into an evidentiary database or to use it in any context or any discussion without knowing the origin of the story and corroborating evidence that supports the story.

Furthermore, that kind of evidence puts a much greater burden of proof on the person who is relying on it.

That's not to say that kind of evidence isn't relevant or that it can't be used.  But I don't feel like I can make a statement like "Oswald was an agent"  without providing a pretty accurate yardstick so someone else can judge its reliability.  

The evidence that Oswald was some kind of asset to people working in intelligence is a lot less of a burden.

We are never going to find a document saying that Oswald is an agent of the United States, as Jim says.  But documents and contemporaneous statements are given higher credence of reliability all over the world that contentions about projects that aren't supposed to exist. 

It doesn't seem fair to me, but it's not about fairness.  It's about the strength of evidence.  That's all I'm saying.  When someone says that Oswald was "deep cover" - I mean, of course that echoes the way I feel - but it's only right to want to know the basis of the statement. 

None of us should feel defensive about saying what we believe - but on some level, we are here to persuade others. 

Otherwise - in my opinion - and this is not directed at anyone participating in this informative thread - all this research and discussion is just a parlor room game.