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15 hours ago, Bill Simpich said:

Fabian Escalante has been consistent in saying that Guillermo Ruiz (Veciana's cousin-in-law) and Antonio Garcia Lara (like Ruiz, in the commercial office of the Cuban embassy) both saw LHO and it was the one shot in Dallas. They were backed up by ex-consul Alfedo Mirabal and Silvia Duran - whose descriptions of his physicality are not perfect.  We all know that Azcue said it was not LHO.  If you read Fidel Castro's testimony, he backs Azcue but suggests that he is mistaken.

Again, I am agnostic.  You are not.  How do you do address the Escalante evidence?

The same way I would address June Cobb, ELANA de la PAZ, Alvarado, Eladio Villanuva, Oleg Netchiporenko, Teresa Proenza, Duran, Azcue.... The overwhelming evidence is that Harvey Oswald was in Texas for that period working for the FBI (possibly on assignment from CIA to get info on what the FBI was doing).  These people supported a story which REQUIRED Oswald to be in Mexico at that time.   He was not.

Did Fabian gets his information from Veciana's testimony who said: 
( the "he took part" referred to is BISHOP/PHILLIPS.  Cause this kinda blows FABIAN's veracity out of the water...  ) and he goes on in later years to ID the shooters...

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The overwhelming evidence is that the FBI completed fabricated the trip with the help of OCHOA.

In 1993 we get this report claiming FABIAN can ID the JFK Assassins which become Eladio Del Valle and Hermanio DIAZ

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Not a single word about the accused and killed suspect - Lee Oswald....  

A senior member of the Cuban Secret Service, Fabian Escalante, agreed: "In 1962 Eladio Del Valle tried to infiltrate Cuba with a commando group of 22 men but their boat had an English key - a little island. In the middle of 1962. Of course, we knew this. I tell you about this, because one of our agents who was one of the people helping to bring this group to Cuba, was a man of very little education. They talked English on many occasions on this little island with Eladio Del Valle told this person, on many occasions, that Kennedy must be killed to solve the Cuban problem. After that we had another piece of information on Eladio Del Valle. This was offered to us by Tony Cuesta. He told us that Eladio Del Valle was one of the people involved in the assassination plot against Kennedy."  Morrow "First Hand Knowledge"

In 1978 President Jimmy Carter arranged for a group of imprisoned exiles to be released. This included Tony Cuesta. Just before leaving Cuba Cuesta asked to see General Fabian Escalante, the head of Cuba's G-2 Spy Agency. Cuesta told Escalante that he had been involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. He also named De Valle and Herminio Diaz Garcia as being involved in the conspiracy.

DJ

Some thoughts...

What point would there be to have Oswald there yet send photos, tapes and transcripts which conflict with who he is, how he speaks and the things he does.  

AMMUG-1 provides support that AZCUE behaved completely inappropriately in confronting an American wishing to travel to Cuba/Russia...  AZCUE's job was to discover if this was a spy and try to double-him back on the US...  not get into an argument and throw him out...  That would provide next to nothing for him to report to CUBA as one would have to think he'd be reprimanded for letting this obvious doubling opportunity slip away.

Finding the notes from the 1977 visits asking if Oswald was impersonated, if he was even ever there...

ALL the Cubans saying there was no Oswald.

LITAMIL-9 & 7 reconfirming it.

Contemporaneous reporting is basically stopped with the Nov 7th LIENVOY Summary report not sent until January '64.
That we do have offers no indication that even privately the Russian were talking about this AMERICAN coming to their Embassy/Consulate after calling a the Soviet Military Attache #, incorrectly, at least twice... and then showed up on a closed Saturday to conduct business.

Bill -

Lee Harvey being in Mexico is a MUST for all of these organizations and groups of people...  like him having bought and received and transported the rifle as needed....  Props in a set-up
DAP is clearly behind much of the propaganda campaigns - his specialty - and one would surmise HUNT was somehow involved....

 


 


 

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NARA 179-40006-10049  SLAWSON to COLEMAN 6/4/64  COMMENTS ON 1ST DRAFT OSWALD TO MEXICO

Another is a memo from April 2 1964...  also not online as far as I can tell, of questions raised by the Amb Mann file as written by Coleman-Slawson... 179-40009-10069  (Record series: 11: GA 1 STATE)

In essence, "Where's all the evidence"?   As I wrote in my series, March 1964 is when the Mexico investigation kicks into high gear again after a few quiet months...  All this info was contained in docs within the first 2 weeks after 11/22.

The removal of ODESSA and that the call was on the 27th and in Spanish was indeed removed from the WCR....  also glossed over is the 1st phone number "Oswald" calls on each of these days is the SOVIET MILITARY ATTACHE, a phone number not even in his little notebook... this happens twice with each time the Soviets telling him the correct # and to call back...   the transcripts and original Spanish is down below... coming from CIA 104-10004-10257  Ag file: 201-289248.

Again, this memo here is Slawson, a WC associate lawyer, acknowledging the need to "FUDGE" details of the Mexico Trip evidence....   and he's the one sent to Mexico for the HSCA....  :up

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Hi David,

Thanks for reaching out to me personally telling me that you wrote this response.  I am only occasionally on this site and I don't know the traffic patterns or when I have been asked a question directly.

I should begin by saying it would really really help David if you offered a RIF number whenever you post an excerpt.  I have to learn what you do - it's very helpful - but it becomes a serious problem when the person who receives it can't review it in context.

Let me check to see if my understanding is right on your position...

On my point about evaluating Escalante's evidence - as near as I can tell you, you simply don't believe Escalante and believe Veciana, do I have that right?

I am not sure about Escalante, but I feel sure Veciana cannot be trusted on any level.

Are you saying Veciana named the shooters in Dealey Plaza?

For all the reasons Newman spelled out in his books, I don't believe Veciana.  He has no crediblity for me.

On your statement that "The overwhelming evidence is that Harvey Oswald was in Texas for that period working for the FBI (possibly on assignment from CIA to get info on what the FBI was doing)."

I don't believe in "Harvey Oswald" as a separate individual from Lee Oswald.

I think Oswald was a frenemy of the FBI - an off-and-on source who got mad at Hosty.

I think Guillermo Ruiz was a double agent that Veciana tried to bring into the game from time to time - and that Ruiz's real affinity remained with Cuba.

I love the "fudge" document you found on Slawson.  I think that is the kind of document that deserves much more analysis - did you ever find the missing pages?

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

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Hi Bill...

On 10/1/2020 at 10:49 AM, David Josephs said:

Fabian Escalante has been consistent in saying that Guillermo Ruiz (Veciana's cousin-in-law) and Antonio Garcia Lara (like Ruiz, in the commercial office of the Cuban embassy) both saw LHO and it was the one shot in Dallas. They were backed up by ex-consul Alfedo Mirabal and Silvia Duran - whose descriptions of his physicality are not perfect.  We all know that Azcue said it was not LHO.  If you read Fidel Castro's testimony, he backs Azcue but suggests that he is mistaken.

Again, I am agnostic.  You are not.  How do you do address the Escalante evidence?

19 hours ago, Bill Simpich said:

On my point about evaluating Escalante's evidence - as near as I can tell you, you simply don't believe Escalante and believe Veciana, do I have that right?

From where does Escalante come to these conclusions about RUIZ & LARA?  I have his declared "5 shooters" statement yet cannot find reference to Ruiz/Lara in relation to seeing Oswald, other than Veciana's reference to his cousin-in-law being paid to say so...

I am not sure about Escalante, but I feel sure Veciana cannot be trusted on any level.  
Seems there were quite a few people who would be paid to help establish Oswald in Mexico...  ELENA PAZ, June Cobb, Valencia... to name a few.   How do you address the evidence from within the Cuban Embassy proving it couldn't have been our Oswald?   Azcue's treatment of an American, Litamil/9 and 7, Summary activity reports detailing the personal conversation of target individuals in the Russian Embassy and their homes....  Over 25 FBI assets looking for any sign of him in Mexico during all of November coming up negative - even so much so as to ask the GOBERNACION where they had OCHOA as asset and STILL no Oswald... no records for Oswald

This despite them alphabetizing him in the FM-11 as "O" and not "L" for O.H. LEE

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Are you saying Veciana named the shooters in Dealey Plaza?   No, Escalante does: Tony Cuesta, Lenny Patrick, Dave Yaras, Hermanio Diaz Garcia & Eladio de Valle

For all the reasons Newman spelled out in his books, I don't believe Veciana.  He has no credibility for me.
Fair enough Bill... yet I always remember that the most effective lies have some verifiable truths within them.  In the docs re: Escalante I could find, I see no mention of RUIZ or LARA telling him they saw Oswald... can you help me out with that one?

On your statement that "The overwhelming evidence is that Harvey Oswald was in Texas for that period working for the FBI (possibly on assignment from CIA to get info on what the FBI was doing)."

I don't believe in "Harvey Oswald" as a separate individual from Lee Oswald.
Belief requires no evidence.... versus the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  I'm sorry you won't allow yourself to consider the possibility.   I'm starting to find Garrison evidence that looked closely at the size disparity between the various Oswalds at different times....  they couldn't get themselves around it either....You are aware that LOPEZ's notes from the Mexico trip begins to question Oswald's very existence there....

I think Oswald was a frenemy of the FBI - an off-and-on source who got mad at Hosty.
April 1963 - Sept 1963...  The OSWALD PROJECT involved the direct contradiction of who Oswald "hung out with" and the message he was touting.  Why else stage the fake fight but to increase Oswald's Bona Fides?  

I think Guillermo Ruiz was a double agent that Veciana tried to bring into the game from time to time - and that Ruiz's real affinity remained with Cuba.  Your opinions here are extremely valuable...  if Veciana was getting orders via the Military, one can only guess as to the purposes and plans involved.  

I love the "fudge" document you found on Slawson.  I think that is the kind of document that deserves much more analysis - did you ever find the missing pages?
I emailed you the pdf.

Bill - the number of people who try to place Oswald in the Cuban/Soviet Embassy is quite remarkable.  Many of them paid to, or already working with the Mexicans as doubles.  Personally, I don't buy the Russian explanations as there is nothing to suggest they even talked about it....  And to me, I see CIA and STATE working against the FBI and IN&S every step of the way.  MANN agrees to every incriminating story about Oswald told....  until they had to be walked back... and then he gets very silent.

Great talking with you
DJ

 

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On Guillermo Ruiz and Antonio Garcia Lara as witnesses who saw the Oswald character as being the actual "LHO" - see Escalante's JFK:  The Cuba Files, pp. 130-132.

On the other hand, I have to say...

As someone who does cautiously use Escalante as a source - because of his stature within Cuban intelligence, his willingness to write books on the subject and engage with researchers - and because he was shut down by the Cuban government, indicating that after a long period of openness a period of silence was necessary - I find it very troubling that all of us don't vet his work more seriously.

After all, Escalante named five shooters in Dealey Plaza.  Why has there been no follow-up?

Why has no one (I can't read Spanish well at all) gone to Havana and reviewed the sources that Escalante does cite in his books as located in the government library?

Does anyone know if Escalante is able or willing to discuss the JFK case at this time?

 

 

 

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