Goodbye John Oliver

[Robert Burrows]

 

 

On the latest episode of Last Week  Tonight With John Oliver, Oliver had a segment about "conspiracy theories" in which he conflated  JFK assassination "conspiracy theories" with Covid 19 "conspiracy theories".  He dismissed the possibility of a conspiracy in the JFK case by invoking the old canard about people being unable to accept the idea that one small man, like LHO, could change history. I've always enjoyed Oliver's show, but I'll never be able to watch it again without thinking about his willful ignorance. Goodbye John Oliver. 

 

[Cliff Varnell]

Given what you describe I gotta bail on a guy I like a lot, otherwise.

Deal breaker.

[George Govus]

Yow, too bad, agreed, deal-breaker. Since I only get "basic cable," I already do without the guy.

[Cliff Varnell]

16 minutes ago, George Govus said:

Yow, too bad, agreed, deal-breaker. Since I only get "basic cable," I already do without the guy.

Yeah, I got rid of HBO a few months ago, but I was thinking of signing up when the new season of Succession aired.  Not now.

4:53.

Oliver doesn’t understand that the entire Conspiracy Community was formed by the official denial of conspiracy in the murder of JFK.

Because the MSM holds the lone nut scenario as an absolute article of faith, those who clearly see the facts of conspiracy have reason to suspect the official story behind anything.

[Denny Zartman]

It's disappointing but not that surprising.

In Oliver's defense, he's a stand up comedian. Since he's been working on The Daily Show and his own show dealing with current events in a more intelligent and insightful way than most, there's now an illusion around him that he's an actual newsman or something more than he really is: a talented, charismatic comedian with a smart writing staff and clever producers. Before the Daily Show, he was just an average person subject to the same media saturation on this subject that most people have been for decades. Still, it's disappointing that someone who appears so smart and able to see through the BS as Oliver would parrot the same simple Lone Nut argument.

Oliver says people believe in a conspiracy because they can't accept the fact that one lone nut changed the course of history. The funny thing to me is that it seems the opposite could also be argued. Maybe everyone who believes Oswald acted alone holds this belief because on an elemental level they can't accept that the government would/could run such a deadly operation and keep it a secret. Surely someone would have talked. Well, like @Larry Hancock 's book says, many have talked. But truly listening and understanding what they have to say involves learning about lots of not-so-well-known people and organizations, many of whom operated in secret. It also means analyzing some complex and sometimes contradictory evidence from an incomplete record. Finally, it means overcoming a lifetime of media conditioning and exposure to the same inaccuracies, mischaracterizations, and outright falsehoods that people end up repeating to each other again and again. That's an investment of time and effort that most folks aren't that interested in undertaking, unless you're like many of us on this forum who find the mystery endlessly fascinating and will gladly read a book on the subject for pleasure.

[George Govus]

9 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

Maybe everyone who believes Oswald acted alone holds this belief because on an elemental level they can't accept that the government would/could run such a deadly operation and keep it a secret.

There, Denny, you've flipped the premise of the disdain on its head, well done, well said, and I agree. About that and the rest you wrote. To hold a prominent position in media has required people to toe the line, or be silenced. And for decades, thinking of Dorothy Kilgallen, Mort Sahl, and others. Amazing that Jefferson Morley still gets published in major media from time to time.

For regular folks to hold a question-authority mind-set hasn't been much of a priority for awhile in America. We started stepping on that around the First World War. I was lucky. Not just because I had good teachers, in high school and college. My mom would forever quote Emerson to me: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." My dad, much more laconic, would only tell me, a quarter-century on from his release from captivity as a German P.O.W., that he had little trust in any national government anywhere on the globe to do right by its people.

 

[Micah Mileto]

13 hours ago, Robert Burrows said:

 

 

On the latest episode of Last Week  Tonight With John Oliver, Oliver had a segment about "conspiracy theories" in which he conflated  JFK assassination "conspiracy theories" with Covid 19 "conspiracy theories".  He dismissed the possibility of a conspiracy in the JFK case by invoking the old canard about people being unable to accept the idea that one small man, like LHO, could change history. I've always enjoyed Oliver's show, but I'll never be able to watch it again without thinking about his willful ignorance. Goodbye John Oliver. 

 

Is there any actual evidence for this bit of psychoanalysis? Or is it a lie that people just repeat to feel superior? I'm betting on the later, because most of psychology is a just harmful pseudoscience made up by idiots.

[George Govus]

I wouldn't know, Micah. I tend to avoid psych, holding a view not too different maybe from yours.

(Except, Psych on TV was big fun.)

But, it's another great question.

Was it James Reston who first framed the Kennedy hit in terms of big vs. small? The horror, the horror. I need to re-read Gibson's book on the cover-up.

[Kirk Gallaway]

Nice post Denny! This doesn't surprise me at all. He's thoroughly conventional in many senses. A bit stubborn and dogmatic. However whether someone believed or didn't believe in the JFKA conspiracy would not be a reason I didn't watch his show. Unless he was obsessed with it.

I haven't kept up with the show since I cut my satellite TV last year . What I thought was very unique for a comedy show was that he'd focus on one subject, say health care, the insurance companies, the phone carriers, the FCC and sometimes rather consumer oriented topics and do a full half hour expose that was funny,  entertaining, and enlightening.

Having said that, I found myself loving the writing in a show , and not particularly liking the talent of the show as I think his sort run on ranting style gets tiring and sometimes  the jewel at the end just wasn't near worth the rant.

I agree with Cliff, "Succession" is the best show I know of on TV, and I'm going to try to finagle  a way to watch it when the new season comes.

 

[Paul Brancato]

Fareed Z. has the same problem. CNN did a show on Trump’s conspiracy theories on Sunday night. According to Fareed and other talking CNN heads the JFK assassination is the granddaddy, and almost word for word described it like John Oliver. It’s so disappointing. How are we supposed to feel about voting for the old establishment? My conscience, living in California, is not assuaged by voting Green Party either. It’s all impossibly surreal. That’s why I suggested that Trump, as awful as he is, is not the real problem. Nor is it the Deep State as defined by Robert Wheeler. It is rather the Deep State as defined by Peter Dale Scott. Trump is both a useful idiot and a danger to this status quo, but again not in the way Mr. Wheeler would define it. (Robert - correct me if I’ve misrepresented you). He’s a danger because the extreme polarization threatens the global stability needed by Capital, who want control of the populace and of public opinion and of the vote, but not at the expense of stability. But he is also useful, as he moves the center of political gravity to the right, away from the majority desire for multiculturalism. It all comes down to White Male Power and what is the best way to secure it going forward into an increasingly multicultural electorate. 
One really strange conspiracy floating around with QAnon is that John Jr. is alive and well, and rooting for Trump to break apart the old system. If QAnon actually represented an anti establishment movement rooted in real history rather than ridiculous fantasy I’d be all for it. But it’s entirely fake, but uses real conspiracy as it’s basic belief system and then piles on top of it the most absurd ideas. But there is most certainly a Power Elite and always has been one, going back millennia. . 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Paul, you've been living with this all your life. Why  are you continually so surprised and lamenting? None of the ms news media has anyone who expresses a belief in the JFKAC.

What about politicians?, No politicians have campaigned  on reopening the JFKA. The reason is clear. As an issue, it's not in the top 40 with the Democrats and not in the top 100 of Republicans. You will get more people  in the "TQ" of the LGBTQ to come out in the streets to protest than you will about the JFK assassination.  The politicians realize it's a gain of 1%, at the possible "conspiracy" loss of 3-4%.

We have a president who supposedly believes, though he's done nothing for the Kennedy conspiracy. But Trumps belief in conspiracies  and some of these crazy groups that follow him and their plans of action are newsworthy.  They're now a dime a dozen, like Wheeler, who for some reason picks us, rather than people closer to his beliefs because he says he likes to be generally  obstinate to us to see our reaction. You may think he's worth mentioning, but IMO by and large, these groups are going to contaminate the JFKA Conspriracy movement and relegate it to the trashbin of history, as you are noting  the broad brush already.

Here's Don Jeffries who occasionally posts here  asking Jim Di/forum favorite for President Tulsi Gabbard about her clutching, "JFK  and the Unspeakable", and she responds she never got around to reading it.

Hey Don, about a year ago. I  got to a hotel late one night. After I got settled, I had this craving for something sweet so I went out to get a milkshake. And I heard the "All Night Flight" or whatever they call it, and you were the guest. You talked about many historical things, Lincoln , the Civil War.  I haven't really looked into some of the things to have a viewpoint, but it was very interesting and entertaining! Keep it up!

Edited July 21, 2020 by Kirk Gallaway

[Cliff Varnell]

17 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

It's disappointing but not that surprising.In Oliver's defense, he's a stand up comedian. Since he's been working on The Daily Show and his own show dealing with current events in a more intelligent and insightful way than most, there's now an illusion around him that he's an actual newsman or something more than he really is: a talented, charismatic comedian with a smart writing staff and clever producers.

Point taken, Denny.  You’ve talked me off the ledge — where I was going to give Oliver a shove.  I’ll keep watching his show on YouTube.

[James DiEugenio]

I actually did some work on this whole "public cannot accept that  a pygmy like Oswald killed a giant like Kennedy" once.

It may have been surfaced before, but in looking back it really came on strong at I think the 20th or 25th anniversary with Priscilla Johnson.  And I am pretty sure that article went out syndication.

And man it has stuck like glue.  I recall at the 30th, I was doing a pretty big national talk radio show while in Dallas, and the guy gave me this line. I should have replied like Denny Z did.  But instead I said words to the effect:  No, its not that at all.   The problem is that when you add up and analyze the evidence, that evidence undermines the WR to such a degree that not only do you conclude that they were wrong about Oswald but, in fact, you discover that it is not possible to mount a credible case against Oswald.  It all comes apart in multiple ways under close examination. I told him, really its much easier to just say, hey the WR was correct.  It would make life, at least the lives of people like me who work on this almost non stop, much simpler.

But its just not the truth about the JFK case.

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by James DiEugenio

[Lawrence Schnapf]

its like the pot calling the kettle black (can we still use that aphorisms) The people with the real psychological difficulty are those who believe in the single gunman theory. It is based on what i call False Patriotism and exemplified by pages 986-87 and 1011 of Bugliosi's book. You see, a conspiracy and the coverup by respected institutions of our country would expose the lie of American Exceptionalism. It would mean we are no different than the Europeans and resemble a third world country. These false patriots cannot simply accept the fact that a conspiracy to assassinate a president could happen in the USA.

Probably would be more effective if those of you who were so motivated by Oliver's segment to post here would post on his twitter page and also share your thoughts with him. -IMHO 

  

[Robert Burrows]

2 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Paul, you've been living with this all your life. Why  are you continually so surprised and lamenting? None of the ms news media has anyone who expresses a belief in the JFKAC.

What about politicians?, No politicians have campaigned  on reopening the JFKA. The reason is clear. As an issue, it's not in the top 40 with the Democrats and not in the top 100 of Republicans. You will get more people  in the "TQ" of the LGBTQ to come out in the streets to protest than you will about the JFK assassination.  The politicians realize it's a gain of 1%, at the possible "conspiracy" loss of 3-4%.

We have a president who supposedly believes, though he's done nothing for the Kennedy conspiracy. But Trumps belief in conspiracies  and some of these crazy groups that follow him and their plans of action are newsworthy.  They're now a dime a dozen, like Wheeler, who for some reason picks us, rather than people closer to his beliefs because he says he likes to be generally  obstinate to us to see our reaction. You may think he's worth mentioning, but IMO by and large, these groups are going to contaminate the JFKA Conspriracy movement and relegate it to the trashbin of history, as you are noting  the broad brush already.

Here's Don Jeffries who occasionally posts here  asking Jim Di/forum favorite for President Tulsi Gabbard about her clutching, "JFK  and the Unspeakable", and she responds she never got around to reading it.

Hey Don, about a year ago. I  got to a hotel late one night. After I got settled, I had this craving for something sweet so I went out to get a milkshake. And I heard the "All Night Flight" or whatever they call it, and you were the guest. You talked about many historical things, Lincoln , the Civil War.  I haven't really looked into some of the things to have a viewpoint, but it was very entertaining! Keep it up!

The only candidate for President who ever commented on the JFK assassination in a thoughtful manner was Marianne Williamson, and if you Google her you'll notice that she's mostly mocked as a kook. 

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For those too young to remember, trust me: who killed Kennedy is indeed a big deal. A nation, like an individual, is as sick as its secrets.

Marianne Williamson

(@marwilliamson) October 26, 2017

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