The South Knoll Gunman - Trajectories

[Guest]

I have just watched this video discussing the throat and fatal shot, it looks like a new upload. Ignore the cover image, thats just a clip that has been used in the 1hr 13min hypothesis. 

Please accept my apologies if this is a duplicate post, which has already been extensively covered here. It certainly appears to explain the windscreen hole and throat wound. Though with the fatal head wound, it's very hard to get your head around everything you have see on video vs this. I guess people who have stood in Dealey Plaza and looked at the angles probably have a very different perception.

https://www.jfksouthknollgunman.com/index.php/08-2south-knoll/

What are your thoughts on the probability of explanations given, and also the false flag suggestion? Has it  been debunked?

[Pete Mellor]

Long believed in the windshield hole & throat shot coming from the south knoll.  That also provides for me the strongest evidence of S.S. complicity.

It has always struck me as weird the number of missed shots which has never fitted in to the scenario of such a military style ambush.

Very logical video Chris, thanks.

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Pete Mellor

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Long believed in the windshield hole & throat shot coming from the south knoll.  That also provides for me the strongest evidence of S.S. complicity.

It has always struck me as weird the number of missed shots which has never fitted in to the scenario of such a military style ambush.

Very logical video Chris, thanks.

 

 

 

Yes, it seemed very logical but, it lost me a little bit at the end. I can see how those shots could be made, how for an assassin to slip away undetected would have been easy from there while all of the chaos ensued elsewhere. The point made about the throat wound being intended as a kill shot and the sniper waiting for a second chance makes sense, and I am sure military men would say that the head shot is a possible shot, not miracle of a shot. It was all very clear and sensible thinking but, toward the end it was entirely clear in regard to the false flag / blame it on the Cubans thing thats suggested is going on. I have read a couple of threads on here about Tosh Plumlee and it could be I didn’t understand them properly, they didn’t make sense to me. You fly an abort team in to stop the assassination, with a mob/CIA go-between on the flight (Roselli) and the way you try to abort the operation is by standing about?! Perhaps I missed something. Surely you’d just make the call to the presidential detail, or radio the SS or whatever, tell the president Dallas is canceled due to an imminent threat. I can’t help but feel I have missed something here as it doesn’t make sense to me. 
Obviously a near miss scenario to coerce the president and initiate a Cuban invasion makes sense but, with all that had gone on, there are no guarantee’s JFK would have believed his intelligence. i can see how such a false flag would silence those involved in the aftermath of the assassination. Also it’s my belief that with 9/11 and 7/7 that the reason terror simulations were happening at the same time (coincidentally we are told) is for reasons of deniability should a potential plot be exposed in the run up to the event. ie you just say, it was a drill, a practice scenario, nothing more than that.

In this scenario whether Oswald thinks he is infiltrating a group of would be assassins/conspirators or whether he thinks a drill is taking place, is really unclear. In fact its just a massive mess which you could never explain to anyone in a rational conversation without sounding like Russell Crowe in A Beautiful Mind. 
 

The more I think about things, those 50+ witnesses who believed that shots came from the fence, someone must have thought that the public could dash for the fence etc and that its mighty close to the actual limo and members of the public. So is that just arrogance knowing you have the security apparatus on board and that the only outcome can be getting away with it. 
 

in summary, the hypothesis that both shots (neck & head) could have come from the one shooter on the south knoll seems plausible and logical. But, the mechanics of the rest of it are very unclear to me. Perhaps some of you guys who have been looking at this for decades have a better idea? 
 

[Cliff Varnell]

On 8/16/2020 at 5:58 PM, Chris Barnard said:

Yes, it seemed very logical but, it lost me a little bit at the end. I can see how those shots could be made, how for an assassin to slip away undetected would have been easy from there while all of the chaos ensued elsewhere. The point made about the throat wound being intended as a kill shot and the sniper waiting for a second chance makes sense, and I am sure military men would say that the head shot is a possible shot, not miracle of a shot. It was all very clear and sensible thinking but, toward the end it was entirely clear in regard to the false flag / blame it on the Cubans thing thats suggested is going on. I have read a couple of threads on here about Tosh Plumlee and it could be I didn’t understand them properly, they didn’t make sense to me. You fly an abort team in to stop the assassination, with a mob/CIA go-between on the flight (Roselli) and the way you try to abort the operation is by standing about?! Perhaps I missed something.

Tosh said it was a routine operation, the “abort team” was often deployed as back up security.  They weren’t working on hard intelligence, and what information they got on the ground was faulty,

He said Dark Complected Man looked like a team member code-named Gator.  In an exchange with Tosh I sketched out an interpretation of Gator’s actions in that light — he was carrying a radio, and immediately after the shooting he sat down next to Umbrella Man because, I speculated, he was struck by UM’s behavior and wanted to check him out.  Add DCM holding up a fist during the early shooting sequence — a military signal for “hold fire.”  After sitting down at the curb, DCM sauntered off. 
  
Would a perp stick around Dealey, or get out quickly as possible?

[Pete Mellor]

On 8/16/2020 at 9:38 PM, Cliff Varnell said:

Tosh said it was a routine operation, the “abort team” was often deployed as back up security.  They weren’t working on hard intelligence, and what information they got on the ground was faulty,

 

I think I read somewhere that Tosh stated that he smelled gunpowder when he was on the south knoll. 

On 8/16/2020 at 5:58 PM, Chris Barnard said:

The more I think about things, those 50+ witnesses who believed that shots came from the fence, someone must have thought that the public could dash for the fence etc and that its mighty close to the actual limo and members of the public. So is that just arrogance knowing you have the security apparatus on board and that the only outcome can be getting away with it.

in summary, the hypothesis that both shots (neck & head) could have come from the one shooter on the south knoll seems plausible and logical. But, the mechanics of the rest of it are very unclear to me. Perhaps some of you guys who have been looking at this for decades have a better idea? 
 

A bullet through the windshield to JFK's neck + the head shot causing the occipital blow out from the south knoll still doesn't rule out a simultaneous frangible shot from the north knoll, causing the tiny particles seen by Humes, Boswell & Fink + Kellerman on the head x-rays at Bethesda.  The witness testimonies of Zapruder, Newman & Arnold seem convincing of one shot from behind the picket fence area.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Pete Mellor said:

I think I read somewhere that Tosh stated that he smelled gunpowder when he was on the south knoll. 

A bullet through the windshield to JFK's neck + the head shot causing the occipital blow out from the south knoll still doesn't rule out a simultaneous frangible shot from the north knoll, causing the tiny particles seen by Humes, Boswell & Fink + Kellerman on the head x-rays at Bethesda.  The witness testimonies of Zapruder, Newman & Arnold seem convincing of one shot from behind the picket fence area.

I am certain too that there was at least one shot from the north knoll, too many witnesses for there not to be. Perhaps the throat shot was meant to do the business as a kill shot and the almost stopping point of the limo was the back-up and the south knoll chap still got it done. It just seems one of the biggest tells for the public that there was a conspiracy, people running at the fence. Like you, I believe that a frangible bullet was used, there are those flecks on the xray which would appear if one had been used. 
 

Regarding the Tosh account, I just struggled with Johnny Roselli being with the abort team (fox in the hen house) and they had all those extra SS personnel that who ever was responsible declined to deploy in Dallas. It just doesn’t add up for me in the couple of places I have read things about it. 🤷‍♂️ 
 

This is such an addictive topic, I have no idea why we all need to know exactly how it went down, the result is the same and the people who benefitted are the same. There are just so many intriguing aspects to it. 

[Adam Johnson]

I have many problems with the south knoll thru the windshield first shot(or throat shot). The zapruder film at 156-160 has been damaged/spliced, Rosemary Willis stops her happy jog along and behind the limo in her tracks and looks back and upwards over her right shoulder to the upper floors of the TSBD. Other witnesees state a shot hits the road beside the car and kicks up debris during this earlier stage along Elm St. Others have suggested the first shot went high and left over the limo, perhaps striking the manhole concrete and embedding into the grass on Elm St.

There are enough statements from many witnesses that a shot prior to Z224 was taken, from behind the limo. My next problem with a south knoll thru the windshield shot is that while not a difficult distance the shot offers many challenges...its not a logical choice to make.

As a hunter/rec-shooter placing yourself in a position to make the shot as simple as possible is fundamental to success. You have surprise and concealment on your side from the south knoll why make your first and hopefully only shot ridiculously difficult(thru windshield). 

You would reasonably expect that even with a suppressed weapon you are going to give away your position once you fire 50% of the time, as people were standing on the south knoll and also 40 to 50 yards away on commerce and main streets(with an un-surpressed weapon you are 100% giving away your firing position).

Therefore you have to give yourself a direct line of site to the target for your initial shot. If you are firing from the south knoll you want to use its elevation and be concealed. That means you have to be in the parking lot area..either laying beside or under a car or truck...in a car or truck seat firing out a window or door....or my favorite perhaps even prone in the flatbed of a truck or ute ready to fire once dropping down the rear tray door.

No one was on the grassy hill or at the corner of the underpass walls on the south knoll...they would have been seen....so that leaves the above explanation for a firing location...

The next problem is if you believe this shot went thru the windshield from the front why did Greer not react to a bullet inches from his face punching thru the windshield...why did Kellerman not react his face was 2 or 3 feet away? A first shot thru the windshield instantly confirms your under attack and in danger...the first bullet missed you by a foot or two....your reaction is instantaneous "lets get out of here now... floor it".

That never happened, they would have seen the thru and thru hole within 2 seconds...they didnt react, either of them.....the car slowed, even braked, they looked over their shoulders twice....before deciding to duck down in the seats.....they even pressed their bodies and heads closer up towards the front windshield....im not doing that if 6 seconds prior i saw a bullet come thru the front windshield. 

My next problem is the shooter if professional would have known firing thru an angled glass windshield would have pulled the bullet downwards once passing thru...the headshot becomes much harder so they would have had to hit the glass higher not mid level on the windshield...that didnt happen.

So you have a few issues here:  Position of the shooter was terrible forcing a thru the windsheild first shot

                                                      The execution of the shot was poor, it missed the targets head

                                                      The driver and lookout closest to the windshield never reacted to a thru and thru shot

                                  

On top of these factors you have many photos that show window damage but no thru and thru bullet hole, you have after action reports and work done on the limousine in the white house garage where no one see's a thru and thru hole.

 

A.J

Edited September 6, 2020 by Adam Johnson

[Bill Fite]

On 8/16/2020 at 10:38 PM, Cliff Varnell said:

Add DCM holding up a fist during the early shooting sequence — a military signal for “hold fire.”  

Could it be the signal for HALT for the driver to react to?