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Lone Gunman podcast: L. Fletcher Prouty a xxxx?


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Mark,

     Your entire erroneous argument about Prouty allegedly "lying," and "erasing" his testimony about the Antarctica detail hinges upon one word-- "routine."

    What did Prouty actually mean when he said that the November 1963 Antarctica flight detail was "routine?"

     You have misinterpreted that statement to mean that there was nothing unusual-- nothing fishy -- about the detail.

     But Prouty may have been merely referring to the fact that the detail was within the scope of his official duties as a Colonel in the U.S. Air Force.

     In contrast, he very specifically wondered about the timing of the assignment after JFK was murdered-- especially in light of the fact that he had been directly involved in the intel work culminating in JFK's critically important NSAM263 of October 1963.

    Little wonder that a "routine" flight detail at that time seemed fishy after 11/22/63.

    Now, my next question.

    What "disinformation" do you imagine Prouty was disseminating?  Do tell.

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9 hours ago, Rob Clark said:

Third time I'm asking...what is the citation for Lansdale personally sending Prouty to Antarctica? Other than Prouty said so? Any documents or corraboration backing this claim up?

Did Prouty state this? If I understand it all correctly, the orders would have come from Rear Adm. James Reedy.

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1 hour ago, Mark Stevens said:

Did Prouty state this? If I understand it all correctly, the orders would have come from Rear Adm. James Reedy.

I remember reading Reedy's name somewhere before.  Given the Admiral title I'd think he was somewhat familiar with the ONI.  Might the CIA's military rep Lansdale have had influence with him?  I know, speculation.  Food for thought if we are open minded here.

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6 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

What "disinformation" do you imagine Prouty was disseminating?  Do tell.

I wondered about this myself.  Prouty implicated the CIA.  Are Rob and Mark saying he lied covering for the military, as he was military?  I have a hard time believing he was in it for the $$$ as you allude to Rob.

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15 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

What "disinformation" do you imagine Prouty was disseminating?  Do tell.

 

8 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I wondered about this myself.  Prouty implicated the CIA.  Are Rob and Mark saying he lied covering for the military, as he was military?  I have a hard time believing he was in it for the $$$ as you allude to Rob.

Well, could either of you tell me which JFKA specific claims Prouty made which were in fact true?

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1 hour ago, Mark Stevens said:

 

Well, could either of you tell me which JFKA specific claims Prouty made which were in fact true?

Read the book.

Prouty's accurate claims about JFK's assassination are innumerable, and very detailed.

IMO, Prouty is one of the main heroes of the JFKA Truth movement-- along with Garrison and Oliver Stone.  (From what I have read, I would also put James DiEugenio in that same category.)

Now, tell us what "disinformation" you think Prouty propagated.

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1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Read the book.

Prouty's accurate claims about JFK's assassination are innumerable, and very detailed.

IMO, Prouty is one of the main heroes of the JFKA Truth movement-- along with Garrison and Oliver Stone.  (From what I have read, I would also put James DiEugenio in that same category.)

Now, tell us what "disinformation" you think Prouty propagated.

If his accurate claims are so innumerable, you should have no problem listing at least a few. Again, I'm aware of the claims Prouty has made and I'm aware of the claims in this book.

I'm asking again for you to explain what JFKA specific claims he has made which were in fact truthful?

You've asked me a lot of questions and I have faithfully answered all of them (whether you agree with them or not).

Could you answer this one for me? I don't feel like I'm asking much. It shouldn't be hard for you to state what you feel he has stated that was accurate or otherwise factual.

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12 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I wondered about this myself.  Prouty implicated the CIA.  Are Rob and Mark saying he lied covering for the military, as he was military?  I have a hard time believing he was in it for the $$$ as you allude to Rob.

You really don't make a lot of money writing non-fiction books, unless they become surprise best sellers and are sold to the movies.  With the publishers Prouty had, plus the outlets for his other writing, his speaking engagements, and his fee for Oliver Stone's JFK*, I'm eyeballing his take since he started publishing as under $150,000 spread out over a decade, and before taxes.  Which pales before the take made on single books by Trump insiders.

*I'm figuring Prouty was lowballed on JFK by Stone and his producers.  There wasn't exactly a bidding war for the material, and I doubt Prouty had a canny and influential literary agent.  Stone based the film on Garrison's book and Jim Marrs' book, which diminished the reliance on Prouty.  Prouty may have been able to engineer a point in the film's profits, or some kind of cut of the performance and media distribution residuals, but that's unknown.  I doubt any writer named here made as much as the screenwriter (for once).

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1 hour ago, David Andrews said:

You really don't make a lot of money writing non-fiction books, unless they become surprise best sellers and are sold to the movies.  With the publishers Prouty had, plus the outlets for his other writing, his speaking engagements, and his fee for Oliver Stone's JFK*, I'm eyeballing his take since he started publishing as under $150,000 spread out over a decade, and before taxes.  Which pales before the take made on single books by Trump insiders.

*I'm figuring Prouty was lowballed on JFK by Stone and his producers.  There wasn't exactly a bidding war for the material, and I doubt Prouty had a canny and influential literary agent.  Stone based the film on Garrison's book and Jim Marrs' book, which diminished the reliance on Prouty.  Prouty may have been able to engineer a point in the film's profits, or some kind of cut of the performance and media distribution residuals, but that's unknown.  I doubt any writer named here made as much as the screenwriter (for once).

True...you really don't get rich from non-fiction books, and I'm not saying he did it for the money, although he may have been given an advance, they certainly heavily advertised the book. Someone may have bought the movie rights, magazines paid for articles written folks with weight behind them. I'm sure Stone paid him...Hell, even Len Osanic is still making money off his name. To me, it's more of a notoriety thing. I'm sure his military retirement benefits were quite good given his years of service and rank. I think after the Garrison investigation and the Church Committee fiasco, he saw an opportunity for a niche, given someone of his prior position. Allude to some real events being "weird", exaggerate involvement in some things, and totally make up others, and you've got yourself some stories. Ones that major news outlets wanna hear, ones that pique the interest of folks like Lifton and Sprague, ones that get you speaking engagements, allow you to publish long form articles in nationally syndicated magazines, get critically acclaimed directors to hire you as a consultant to major Hollywood movie, write forewards in books of people like Mark Lane, then finally publish your own JFK related book on the heels of the movie that your conspiratorial tales are told in....only to contradict everything you've ever said or done when finally scrutinized by an authoritative investigatory government entity that had access to documents and people that could disprove everything you've ever said....Ouch...

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1 hour ago, Mark Stevens said:

If his accurate claims are so innumerable, you should have no problem listing at least a few. Again, I'm aware of the claims Prouty has made and I'm aware of the claims in this book.

I'm asking again for you to explain what JFKA specific claims he has made which were in fact truthful?

You've asked me a lot of questions and I have faithfully answered all of them (whether you agree with them or not).

Could you answer this one for me? I don't feel like I'm asking much. It shouldn't be hard for you to state what you feel he has stated that was accurate or otherwise factual.

Mark,

     I'm not in the habit of debating with someone about a book that they haven't even read.

     I could list hundreds of important, accurate observations that Prouty documented in his work-- about everything from Lansdale's black ops in the Phillippines and Vietnam, to the drafting of the McNamara/Taylor Report, NSAM263 and its bizarre abnegation by the 11/21/63 NSAM 273 draft, psy op hallmarks in the international media framing Oswald as the lone assassin on 11/22/63, obvious botched security protocols in Dealey Plaza, etc., etc.

    Now, answer the question I asked you first.

    What "disinformation" did Prouty propagate, in your opinion?

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1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

 What "disinformation" did Prouty propagate, in your opinion?

Not that Mark needs the help, but allow me to throw some things out there...

First of all, "read the book" doesn't mean sh*t...if the person writing the book is making up stories.

That is one of Judy Baker's favorite things to say..."read the book"...need I say more?

1)     Lore - He thought it strange at the time that he, being in charge of setting up extra military Presidential      protection was sent to Antarctica during the assassination

To the ARRB - He admits there was nothing strange about the trip to Antarctica...it was routine. Also admits he had nothing to do with Presidential protection detail.

2)      Lore - Col. Reich and the 112th were ordered to stand down and not provide military protection for JFK

To the ARRB - Col. Reich stated this was something rarely done, stated he had never talked to or heard of Prouty, and that they were never asked by the Secret Service or DPD to provide extra security for the President's visit to Texas.

I would also recommend perusing this file from the Weisberg archive...

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/P Disk/Prouty L Fletcher/

 

 

 

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There's no need to defend Prouty against spurious accusations of "lying" or being deliberately misleading. 

The ARRB interviewers refer to the Mister X character in Oliver Stone's "JFK" when referencing the Antartica trip and the newspaper in New Zealand. Prouty did not write that screenplay and does not have to answer for any inferences the film may have posited.

The military intelligence angle amounts to Prouty repeating a rumour he once heard and including it on page 294 of his book, and later being unable to substantiate the rumour. Is this the new academic standard for the research community? - that all rumours must be substantiated or else the author can be labelled a xxxx and deliberate purveyor of disinformation? I don't know that any works or authors would survive such scrutiny. 

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Mark and Rob,

       I owe both of you guys an apology for my somewhat hostile comments on this thread.  I can't delete them, so I must simply apologize for them.

      Your criticisms of Col. Prouty kind of hit a nerve for me. 

      Thinking it over, I realize now that I have put the Colonel on a pedestal of sorts.  

      The first book about the JFK assassination that I ever read (just a few years ago) was Prouty's, JFK-- The CIA, Vietnam, and the Plot to Assassinate John F. Kennedy.  It shook me up.

      I discovered the book on Amazon, after watching the movie JFK, and learning that Donald Sutherland's character, Mr. X, was largely based on Prouty. 

      Regarding Prouty's motives for speaking out about JFK's murder, my impression is that money and notoriety had nothing to do with it.  For one thing, he was a bank president and a retired colonel.

      I think the guy was a good man and a true patriot who was deeply troubled about what he perceived as a rogue "Secret Team" operating beyond the purview of our elected government officials.

      It bothered me a few years ago when I read some crap on-line (at McAdams.edu, I think) impugning Prouty's reputation by claiming that he was only a pilot/"chauffeur" who was making stuff up about the CIA, etc.  That stuff wasn't consistent at all with his detailed descriptions of his career.

     

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