Frames of the Couch film

[Bill Miller]

Do you have the frames that show the bench where an alledged pool of blood was seen? Thanks.

Denis - I emailed the frames to you just now. I cannot post images for some reason since this site has come back up after it's short break. Hopefully you can post them OK.

I have serious doubts about that spot being blood. For one thing there was no one standing there when the shooting was going on. Anyone bleeding that profusely would had to of remained in that spot for some period of time to just leave one good sized pool of blood on the ground. Anyone bleeding that profusely and walking or running through there would not have left such a pool like that in one loaction and they would have left a blood trail as they moved along. However, there was a black couple sitting on the bench and drinking sodas before JFK came onto Elm Street and I suspect that one of them poured what was left of their drink onto the ground. One of them may have also thrown their bottle as Sitzman said she heard a bottle break around the time of the shooting.

The film in question was shot by Jack Darnell as I recall.

[Pamela Brown]

Amazing captures Denis. Thanks for the info on SNAGIT too.

Pamela

[Denis Morissette]

Bill, I can't post the pictures either!

I did not know that it was Darnell who took this film. BTW, Darnell is the man seen with a camera in one of the frames of the Couch film I posted above.

Talking about blood and the Couch film, Couch described an enormous trail of blood, see this article. I am not claiming it is the same blood, but just want to let people know about what Couch saw.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/couch.htm

“I started toward the building where I had seen the rifle in the window. Then I saw something very weird. There was a trail of blood from the spot where the shooting occurred to the entrance of the Texas School Book Depository. I pointed it out to a man with me.

“Just then an FBI man stepped out of the building, and in his hand was an object dripping blood. It looked like a piece of hairy flesh. I know I didn’t imagine this. The scene is very clear to me.

Don Roberdeau an extremely interesting piece of information about a Dallas Morning News employee who tasted (!) some blood in Dealy Plaza. I hope Debra Conway won't resent me to post Don's entire post on the subject on her forum... Here it is...

QUOTE ON

Good Day.... I decided to also repost what follows below as a seperate post since the location of the pool of blood "DMN" employees COLEY and HOOD observed is different than the blood pool COUCH, L'HOSTE and others described seeing. As detailed on my DP overhead map link below (and in Trask's book "POTP"), the blood that COLEY observed was south of the north "Bryan" pergola shelter #3, while the blood COUCH observed was east of the north pergola shelter #4.

After a search online, I found an online version of MARK OAKES interview of 55 minutes with JERRY LANE COLEY, a "Dallas Morning News" advertising salesman on 22NOV63.

COLEY's online interview is available for all here ("RealPlayer" needed).... thanks to researcher SCOTT MYERS

http://users2.ev1.net/~bobdeb/jfk/coley.ram

Perhaps MARK OAKES will jump into this thread with further details

Apparently OAKES and a co-researcher located then interviewed COLEY after reading about him in the paperback book “Unsolved Texas Mysteries” by Wallace O. Chariton, With Kevin R. Young & Charlie Eckhardt, published in March 1991, ISBN=1556221363, December 1991 =1556221371, May 1992=1556222564. (NOTE: OAKES points out, and COLEY confirms in the online interview, that some non-blood-pool-related details CHARITAN wrote about COLEY's post-attack actions are incorrect)

To summarize some of COLEY's interview with OAKES considerations:

COLEY said that the pool of blood he saw was located about 10' south of the north pergola west shelter #3 door, on the sidewalk, near the retaining wall.

COLEY said that JIM HOOD (now deceased) touched the "pool of blood" and tasted it, then said it was "definately blood," not spilled soda pop. HOOD captured only one photo of the pool of blood.

Just some thoughts OTTOMH .... could the dark-complected man who, nearly instantaneously after the Presidents head exploded, wheeled-around and ran away from HUDSON up the pergola west steps, have actually SEEN the GK assassin and/or DPD-SMITH's-"agent"-accomplice and/or SUMMERS-"armed agent" (and/or "badgeman" and/or "badgeman construction-hatted accomplice" and/or "badgeman DPD-uniformed accomplice" if you believe in them---my, what a crowded area!), and because the "ran-away man" saw a conspiratorhe was, without hesitation, silently shot or stabbed, then quickly stuffed/hidden into a car trunk nearby in the parking lot?.... or...., maybe, the "ran-away man" was shot during the attack.... Another thought, maybe the blood was from one of the black couple that SITZMAN told JOSIAH she saw just before the attack sharing a lunch on the retaining wall bench. Maybe him/her/both witnessed a shooter/accomplice and were quickly murdered, then hidden in a car trunk. In the last year BILL MILLER said something about someone possibly knowing who that black couple may have been. Seems important to me, considering their location. Perhaps BILL can detail that for us, and explore it further.

If HOOD & COLEY were correct that it was blood --a pool of blood, no less-- it, sure, came from someone

Does anyone know if anyone has ever interviewed JIM HOOD?

Is COLEY still alive?

COLEY also describes having coffee with RUBY early that morning, and then seeing RUBY sitting at NEWNAM's desk when COLEY returned to his "DMN" office shortly after the attack. COLEY said RUBY was visibly shaken after COLEY announced to his co-workers about the shooting. (as were scores of millions of other persons)

COLEY also describes being interviewed by 2 "greenish" i.d.-flashing "agents" on 26NOV63 at the "DMN." (I think COLEY said he thought they were FBI)

Interesting, COLEY claims that after COLEY asked the agents about the blood pool --which the agents seemed to not even know about-- then the agents talked also with HOOD about it and his one photograph, the agents confiscated the one photo HOOD captured of the blood and then told COLEY and HOOD to forget about what they saw.... sounds all too familiar, right?!

Is there a COLEY co-worker still living who remembers seeing 2 "agents" speaking to COLEY, then HOOD at their "DMN" office? NEWNAM gives a list of about 27 persons during his warreatti-testimony, available for all here:

http://www.jmasland.com/testimony/media/newnam.htm

QUOTE OFF

[Denis Morissette]

Amazing captures Denis.  Thanks for the info on SNAGIT too.

Pamela

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, Pam. Snagit is worthwhile. You pay about $25 and you get a lot in return. That ice cream is great, isn'it?

Thanks for the pictures, Bill! I knew you were the man.

Edited December 30, 2004 by Denis Morissette

[Jack White]

Bill, I can't post the pictures either! 

I did not know that it was Darnell who took this film. BTW, Darnell is the man seen with a camera in one of the frames of the Couch film I posted above.

Talking about blood and the Couch film, Couch described an enormous trail of blood, see this article. I am not claiming it is the same blood, but just want to let people know about what Couch saw.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/couch.htm

“I started toward the building where I had seen the rifle in the window. Then I saw something very weird. There was a trail of blood from the spot where the shooting occurred to the entrance of the Texas School Book Depository. I pointed it out to a man with me.

“Just then an FBI man stepped out of the building, and in his hand was an object dripping blood. It looked like a piece of hairy flesh. I know I didn’t imagine this. The scene is very clear to me.

Don Roberdeau an extremely interesting piece of information about a Dallas Morning News employee who tasted (!) some blood in Dealy Plaza. I hope Debra Conway won't resent me to post Don's entire post on the subject on her forum... Here it is...

QUOTE ON

Good Day.... I decided to also repost what follows below as a seperate post since the location of the pool of blood "DMN" employees COLEY and HOOD observed is different than the blood pool COUCH, L'HOSTE and others described seeing. As detailed on my DP overhead map link below (and in Trask's book "POTP"), the blood that COLEY observed was south of the north "Bryan" pergola shelter #3, while the blood COUCH observed was east of the north pergola shelter #4.

After a search online, I found an online version of MARK OAKES interview of 55 minutes with JERRY LANE COLEY, a "Dallas Morning News" advertising salesman on 22NOV63.

COLEY's online interview is available for all here ("RealPlayer" needed).... thanks to researcher SCOTT MYERS

http://users2.ev1.net/~bobdeb/jfk/coley.ram

Perhaps MARK OAKES will jump into this thread with further details

Apparently OAKES and a co-researcher located then interviewed COLEY after reading about him in the paperback book “Unsolved Texas Mysteries” by Wallace O. Chariton, With Kevin R. Young & Charlie Eckhardt, published in March 1991, ISBN=1556221363, December 1991 =1556221371, May 1992=1556222564. (NOTE: OAKES points out, and COLEY confirms in the online interview, that some non-blood-pool-related details CHARITAN wrote about COLEY's post-attack actions are incorrect)

To summarize some of COLEY's interview with OAKES considerations:

COLEY said that the pool of blood he saw was located about 10' south of the north pergola west shelter #3 door, on the sidewalk, near the retaining wall.

COLEY said that JIM HOOD (now deceased) touched the "pool of blood" and tasted it, then said it was "definately blood," not spilled soda pop. HOOD captured only one photo of the pool of blood.

Just some thoughts OTTOMH .... could the dark-complected man who, nearly instantaneously after the Presidents head exploded, wheeled-around and ran away from HUDSON up the pergola west steps, have actually SEEN the GK assassin and/or DPD-SMITH's-"agent"-accomplice and/or SUMMERS-"armed agent" (and/or "badgeman" and/or "badgeman construction-hatted accomplice" and/or "badgeman DPD-uniformed accomplice" if you believe in them---my, what a crowded area!), and because the "ran-away man" saw a conspiratorhe was, without hesitation, silently shot or stabbed, then quickly stuffed/hidden into a car trunk nearby in the parking lot?.... or...., maybe, the "ran-away man" was shot during the attack.... Another thought, maybe the blood was from one of the black couple that SITZMAN told JOSIAH she saw just before the attack sharing a lunch on the retaining wall bench. Maybe him/her/both witnessed a shooter/accomplice and were quickly murdered, then hidden in a car trunk. In the last year BILL MILLER said something about someone possibly knowing who that black couple may have been. Seems important to me, considering their location. Perhaps BILL can detail that for us, and explore it further.

If HOOD & COLEY were correct that it was blood --a pool of blood, no less-- it, sure, came from someone

Does anyone know if anyone has ever interviewed JIM HOOD?

Is COLEY still alive?

COLEY also describes having coffee with RUBY early that morning, and then seeing RUBY sitting at NEWNAM's desk when COLEY returned to his "DMN" office shortly after the attack. COLEY said RUBY was visibly shaken after COLEY announced to his co-workers about the shooting. (as were scores of millions of other persons)

COLEY also describes being interviewed by 2 "greenish" i.d.-flashing "agents" on 26NOV63 at the "DMN." (I think COLEY said he thought they were FBI)

Interesting, COLEY claims that after COLEY asked the agents about the blood pool --which the agents seemed to not even know about-- then the agents talked also with HOOD about it and his one photograph, the agents confiscated the one photo HOOD captured of the blood and then told COLEY and HOOD to forget about what they saw.... sounds all too familiar, right?!

Is there a COLEY co-worker still living who remembers seeing 2 "agents" speaking to COLEY, then HOOD at their "DMN" office? NEWNAM gives a list of about 27 persons during his warreatti-testimony, available for all here:

http://www.jmasland.com/testimony/media/newnam.htm

QUOTE OFF

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couch's WC testimony says he saw the pool of blood

on the sidewalk by the corner of the depository.

Jack

PS...AGAIN I ATTEMPTED TO POST AN ATTACHMENT

BUT IT WILL NOT ATTACH.

ATTENTION JOHN SIMKIN...CAN THIS BE FIXED?

Edited December 30, 2004 by Jack White

[Bill Miller]

Couch's WC testimony says he saw the pool of blood

on the sidewalk by the corner of the depository.

Jack

Jack is correct about what Couch said. Note the last line where he says how far from the corner of the TSBD the blood was.

Mr. BELIN - That would be the west side of the Depository Building?

Mr. COUCH - That's right; that's right. It's there that I saw blood on the sidewalk.

Mr. BELIN - All right. Now, you say you saw blood on the sidewalk, Mr. Couch?

Mr. COUCH - That's right.

Mr. BELIN - Where was that?

Mr. COUCH - This was the little walkway - steps and walkway that leads up to the corner, the west corner, the southwest corner of the book Depository Building. Another little sidewalk, as I recall, turns west and forms that little parkway and archway right next to the Book Depository Building.

Mr. BELIN - Did this appear to be freshly created blood?

Mr. COUCH - Yes; right.

Mr. BELIN - About how large was this spot of blood that you saw?

Mr. COUCH - Uh - from 8 to 10 inches in diameter.

Mr. BELIN - Did people around there say how it happened to get there, or not?

Mr. COUCH - No; no one knew. People were watching it - that is watching it carefully and walking and pointing to it. Uh - just as I ran up, policemen ran around the west corner and ran - uh - northward on the side of the building. And my first impression was that - uh - that they had chased someone out of the building around that corner, or possibly they had wounded someone. All of those policemen had their pistols pulled. And people were pointing back around those shrubs and that west corner and - uh - you would think that there was a chase going on in that direction.

Again, the reason that I didn't follow was because A.J. had come up, and my first concern was to get back with the President.

Mr. BELIN - This pool of blood - about how far would it have been north of the curbline of Elm Street as Elm Street goes under the expressway?

Mr. COUCH - I'd say - uh - well, from Elm Street, you mean, itself?

Mr. BELIN - Yes. This is from that part of Elm Street that goes into the expressway?

Mr. COUCH - I'd say - uh - 50 to 60 feet, and about 10 to 15 feet from the corner of the Texas Depository Building.

[Bill Miller]

Here is one of the darnell frames showing the liquid on the sidewalk near the picket fence.

[Denis Morissette]

Here is one of the darnell frames showing the liquid on the sidewalk near the picket fence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is another one. I will check the Couch film later on.

[Jack White]

Here is one of the darnell frames showing the liquid on the sidewalk near the picket fence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is another one. I will check the Couch film later on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If those frames show blood, why are none of the spectators interested?

If NOT blood, this stain is irrelevant.

We know that the pool of BLOOD seen by Couch and L'Hoste near

the Depository WAS blood...because they TASTED IT before

photographing it (WC testimony).

Jack

[Ian A. Kerr]

Thanks for your words, Jack and Shanet. The Couch film frames are from PBS' JFK: BREAKING THE NEWS, I believe. I would have to check. I have the show on DVD, and captured these frames with a software called SNAGIT. If anyone has a digital camera, a capture software is sometimes included with the camera software. You plug a cable from your VHS or DVD and plug the other end at the back of your computer video card.

The frame from the John Martin film is from Robert Groden's The Assassination Films.

Here are two more. One of the front of the TSBD. I thought we could see Marrion Baker running towards the TSBD, but cannot see him on that frame. I must have it somewhere, and the other one shows a cop and "Clappy Man" who claps his hands in the Zapruder film and a policeman.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Denis,

Here's a frame from the Couch sequence showing Baker running towards the TSBD.

[Denis Morissette]

Thanks Ian. Oswald probably left the builiding within a minute after this frame was shot.

[Jack White]

Here is one of the darnell frames showing the liquid on the sidewalk near the picket fence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is another one. I will check the Couch film later on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If those frames show blood, why are none of the spectators interested?

If NOT blood, this stain is irrelevant.

We know that the pool of BLOOD seen by Couch and L'Hoste near

the Depository WAS blood...because they TASTED IT before

photographing it (WC testimony).

Jack

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is the location where Couch and L'Hoste saw the pool of blood.

Jack

[Jack White]

Here is one of the darnell frames showing the liquid on the sidewalk near the picket fence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is another one. I will check the Couch film later on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If those frames show blood, why are none of the spectators interested?

If NOT blood, this stain is irrelevant.

We know that the pool of BLOOD seen by Couch and L'Hoste near

the Depository WAS blood...because they TASTED IT before

photographing it (WC testimony).

Jack

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couch's WC testimony.

Jack

Here is the location where Couch and L'Hoste saw the pool of blood.

Jack

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Denis Morissette]

The Couch film alledgedly showing the "pool of blood".

Copy and paste this link. It won't work if you click on it.

http://jfkmurderphotos.bravehost.com/couch.gif

Edited January 11, 2005 by Denis Morissette

[Lee Forman]

Great stuff all. Denis, nice shots!

I tried following this blood many times.

As per another thread, I believe Jack White told me that Jean Hill had informed him personally that the blood she had seen was on the steps at Elm.

The next location would be the one behind the retaining wall.

I will have to check on the next one, but I was told by someone that an ex-FBI agent had seen another pool in the parking area, behind the North Pergola and parked his car over it. He arrived at the scene at approximately 12:40pm CT.

The next pool would then be at the sidewalk at the TSBD, indeed seeming to form a trail.

Now here's the part that I was trying to work with, coincidentally.

Following the action, Emmett Hudson, by his own account, went prone, along with Red Shirt Man. IMO, Red Shirt in an operator, whose role had to do with hand signals. He sits down, along with DCM and TUM.

As per the photographic analyses I have done, and couple it with RB Cutler's Scale Map of DP which indicates that Sprague believed there was a minimum of 4 individuals behind the retaining wall, Marilyn Sitzman was incorrect. I choose to disregard anything that she says entirely. Someday I hope to have photographic proof of what really happened, but I'd be willing to place a very large bet that there was no black couple in that location during the assassination, nor were any coke bottles thrown.

Hill learned later it was a sno-cone, and accepted it - after all, she saw a little dog in the limo also. Where was the sno-cone salesman?

Hill was forced to depict all of the incidents: the blood, the man running, where the shots came from, etc., on a map drawn by Arlen Specter. The map, WC Hill Exhibit 5, forced Jean Hill to crunch everything into an area of a few millimeters in diameter. The TSBD sat on Elm in Specter's drawing. I tried to upload a jpeg of the pdf, but I still can't load photos.

Here's where it gets interesting. If you examine the area of the stairs, following the assassination, how many people are there? 2? Why is Emmett still sitting? Is it Emmett, or do we see him walking away in Wilma Bond's last photo? If Red Shirt Man is an operator, why is he hanging around? If DCM is an operator, why would he walk over to see what was going on? A cuban looking individual can be seen running, leaping to their position. It appears that Emmett is still sitting down -or is he? What's going on over there? Where's the man that Jean Hill chases?

Jean Hill's statements, and Malcolm Couch's lead me to believe that someone got tagged - by return fire, crossing the line of sight for a fence shooter, or a possible deliberate Patsy that managed to run from the scene.

I also find it interesting to note the first day reports concerning the SS man that died. Theoretically, it's pretty well established that false SS ID was used, in that general location. What if this 'poor bastard' got hit, went running, was eventually caught, with phony SS ID, and the media hounds somehow got wind of the story and ran with it before it could be properly shut down? Hence the title 'They even have to die in secret.'

That 'citizen's arrest' looks peculiar. Isn't that the same guy we see in the Hughes film running from the vicinity of the North Peristyle? Is that an arrest, or assisting the wounded?

I would very much like to see about doublechecking Parkland admission records that day for GSW, but wouldn't know how to go about it.

- lee