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Tim Gratz

Where Was Howard?

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Where was Howard?

We all know that Howard Hunt lost his suit against Liberty Lobby in part because he could not coherently explain where he was on November 22, 1963.

I recently was rereading "The Fish Is Red" (copyright 1981) (republished as "Deadly Secrets") and encountered a passage in which the authors state that Harry Williams (one of Robert Kennedy's favorite Cubans) told them that, on the morning of the assassination, he was meeting with Richard Helms, Howard Hunt and several other CIA agents to plan the second invasion of Cuba. I had read about this meeting from another source, as well.

Can anyone explain this apparent anomaly? Did such a meeting in fact occur on the 22nd?

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According to historian Beschloss (The Crisis Years) and Helms himself (A Look over My Shoulder), Helms and CIA director McCone were meeting that morning with the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (PFIAB). Helms and McCone were having lunch after the meeting in a small room next to the director's office when word came of the assassination.

According to Clark Clifford (in his book Counsel to the President), Clifford chaired this PFIAB meeting, which was about restructuring the CIA according to JFK's wishes. This does not sound like a meeting that Hunt, much less Williams, would be invited to attend. And if Hunt was meeting with the AFIAB, Williams, or anyone else in DC that day, why in the world didn't he use it as an alibi (for which he seemed pretty desperate in the Liberty Lobby case)?

According to Russo in Live by the Sword, Williams was at the Ebbitts Hotel that morning, meeting with journalist Haynes Johnson, who was working on his book about the Bay of Pigs. Williams could make himself sound more important, of course, by claiming that he was meeting with Helms, Hunt, and other CIA officials instead.

Ron

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Yes, I think Ron is right, as usual.

I recently reread Mark Lane's Plausible Denial.

The Civil trial Hunt initiated backfired, and his

alibi about being at the CIA fell apart.

His own children wouldn't say that he was

around Washington that fateful weekend,

and there was a lot of quibbling over

whether Howard Hunt was reminding

or suggesting to his children his presence at home.

Mark Lane's questioning of Stansfeld Turner

is like an absurdist play from Eugene Ionesco

or Alice in Wonderland. Surreal, the Turner material....

Hunt was apparently the western hemisphere CIA domestic

operations honcho in the fall of 1963.

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This shows also how careful one must be in research because there are errors in books. Either Williams lied to Hinckle and Turner about the meeting or they got it wrong. Not sure if anyone has the book "Deadly Secrets" but it would be interesting to see if the error is repeated in that book.

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Yes, Deadly Secrets states that "Harry Williams told the authors in an interview" that he was meeting that day in a CIA safe house with Helms, Hunt, and other CIA agents, and they "were about to go out for a late lunch when they heard that the President had been shot in Dallas" (p. 251). About an hour later, Williams was at the Ebbitts with Haynes Johnson when RFK called Johnson there (p. 273).

Ron

Edited by Ron Ecker

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The story (apparent lie) of Harry Williams that he was in a meeting with Howard Hunt on Nov 22, 1963 is repeated in Russo's bool, Live by the Sword.

Russo's source is the Hincke/Turner book.

This demonstrates how a "lie" (or even an innocent error) can be repeated in several generations of assassination literature.

Each time the story is told it tends to further legitimize it.

Which is why we need to be very careful.

Thanks to Ron Ecker!

Edited by Tim Gratz

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Tim Gratz Posted Yesterday, 03:10 AM

  Where was Howard?

We all know that Howard Hunt lost his suit against Liberty Lobby in part because he could not coherently explain where he was on November 22, 1963.

I recently was rereading "The Fish Is Red" (copyright 1981) (republished as "Deadly Secrets") and encountered a passage in which the authors state that Harry Williams (one of Robert Kennedy's favorite Cubans) told them that, on the morning of the assassination, he was meeting with Richard Helms, Howard Hunt and several other CIA agents to plan the second invasion of Cuba. I had read about this meeting from another source, as well.

Can anyone explain this apparent anomaly? Did such a meeting in fact occur on the 22nd?

In a recent interview (2004) Howard Hunt was asked where he was on 11/22/1963. he replied: "No comment." His wife added something like: Howard told me he was not in Dallas that day, and I believe him.

In my view, an answer such as: "No comment", is typically a response to an awkward issue, an issue one does not wish to discuss, kind of like the 5th amendment in court. To me it says he's probably among the fellows of the "inside ring".

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I have no doubt that Eduardo was in Dallas.

Jack

____________________

Hi Jack,

I for one always thought Hunt looked like one of the tramps. But is this not the same one that others believe to be Chauncy Holt?

If so, your photo shows more of a resemblance to Hunt, if I am to understand that one photo is an actual photo of Hunt and the other is tramp.

Am I missing something here???

thanx,

Dawn

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I have no doubt that Eduardo was in Dallas.

Jack

____________________

Hi Jack,

I for one always thought Hunt looked like one of the tramps. But is this not the same one that others believe to be Chauncy Holt?

If so, your photo shows more of a resemblance to Hunt, if I am to understand that one photo is an actual photo of Hunt and the other is tramp.

Am I missing something here???

thanx,

Dawn

Hunt was a tramp. Holt was a con-man.

Jack

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I suspect from the photographic evidence, Hunt's "no comment," etc., that the tramp was Hunt. And if he was Hunt then the tall tramp was his cohort Sturgis, since these resemblances would not be coincidence. (In any group of three people, what are the odds that two of them would look suspiciously like Abbott and Costello or Laurel and Hardy?) Holt may have been in Dallas but lied about being the tramp, whom he doesn't really look like.

Hunt being in disguise in the railroad yard would clearly suggest that a select few were helping with the dirty work, there being a lot of ground to cover (a team in Dealey Plaza, a team at the Trade Mart, teams in Austin etc.). A need not only to know but to do, the less people involved the less people to talk or eliminate.

Then again, maybe the tramp was Gus Abrams. It's a strange world we live in.

Ron

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I suspect from the photographic evidence, Hunt's "no comment," etc., that the tramp was Hunt. And if he was Hunt then the tall tramp was his cohort Sturgis, since these resemblances would not be coincidence. (In any group of three people, what are the odds that two of them would look suspiciously like Abbott and Costello or Laurel and Hardy?)  Holt may have been in Dallas but lied about being the tramp, whom he doesn't really look like.

Hunt being in disguise in the railroad yard would clearly suggest that a select few were helping with the dirty work, there being a lot of ground to cover (a team in Dealey Plaza, a team at the Trade Mart, teams in Austin etc.).  A need not only to know but to do, the less people involved the less people to talk or eliminate.

Then again, maybe the tramp was Gus Abrams. It's a strange world we live in.

Ron

There is no room for doubt that the tall tramp is Harrelson, not the

swarthy Italian Sturgis (Fiorini).

Jack

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I have no doubt that Eduardo was in Dallas.

Jack

____________________

Hi Jack,

I for one always thought Hunt looked like one of the tramps. But is this not the same one that others believe to be Chauncy Holt?

If so, your photo shows more of a resemblance to Hunt, if I am to understand that one photo is an actual photo of Hunt and the other is tramp.

Am I missing something here???

thanx,

Dawn

Hunt was a tramp. Holt was a con-man.

Jack

_________________________________

With all due respect, Jack I think that is an over simplification. Your opinion to say the least. I find the Holt story most compelling. But both sets of the photos are very interesting also. I do hope you will respond to Karyn's post on Wim's forum re the question of "Hunt's ears" in her photos.

Thanks for responding. I am a bit of a novice in all the film/many photo etc., areas of the case. And of course over the years there have been so many id's of the tramps, All cannot be correct....but Karyn makes very good points, re the "layover" of Holt and tramp, and her issue re the ears (Hunt's).

Dawn

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