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J. D. Tippit: Was he part of the conspiracy?


John Simkin

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... Given what we know about Tippit before 11/22/63, the context of the situation right before Tippit is killed (the president has just been assassinated, Tippit is looking frantically for someone, etc), would you agree with me that the fact that Tippit's gun was found OUT OF its holster, tends to suggest that whoever killed Tippit did so in self defense?

Actually, I just remembered something which totally destroys this theory, and just to show just how "openminded" I am, I will play the role of Devil's Advocate here: Didn't one of the witnesses testify that he/she had seen (the/one of the) killer(s) start walking away from the scene and then actually walk back to Tippit's body and administer a "coup de grace" pistol shot to Tippit's head? If so, this would argue against the killer(s) having shot Tippit out of self defense in the first place..... ???!

FWIW, Thomas

Thomas,

As I recall (without looking anything up), the "coup de grace" witness came up during the HSCA hearings. He was driving a car eastward toward Patton and watched the whole thing, he said. In any case, I have a copy of the Tippit autopsy (somewhere!) and photos from it, and he clearly has a hole in his right temple; what I cannot remember offhand is whether there was any notation in the autopsy report of "powder burns" or other indications that the bullet was fired from closer than the others that hit him in the thorax.

Lacking those references immediately, to pursue the "self defense" angle, you'd have to suggest that whomever it was that JDT stopped was a "quick draw" since the inference would be that an experienced police officer got out of the car pulling his own gun, and the person JDT "pulled over" noticed this and was able to draw and shoot his weapon before the cop — whose weapon was either already drawn or in the process of being drawn — could bring his own weapon to bear against the "suspect."

There is also the question whether the "suspect" could have seen that with the car between him and the cop. Think about it: a cop pulls up beside you in a hard-topped vehicle. You might even lean in toward his window to "converse" through the closed window (if pulling over a suspect, I can't imagine a cop leaning across the car to manually roll down the window to talk rather than simply getting out of the car, can you? Go through the motions yourself and tell me if you find yourself in a position of "control"), but once the cop starts to get up and out of his car the roof will be in your line of sight, you won't be seeing him draw his gun.

On the other hand — or, from the opposite perspective — you can imagine JDT getting out of the car, noticing that the "suspect" was drawing on him, reaching for his own gun and managing to get it out of the holster — but not to where he could use it against the "suspect" — before he was hit and fell down, with the gun beneath him.

Too, if JDT was drawing down on the "suspect," who drew and fired after seeing the cop's gun being drawn against him, one might possibly expect that, if JDT was prepared to fire in the first place (rule of thumb: don't draw unless prepared to fire), the gun might end up elsewhere than under his body, perhaps beside it.

This is hardly conclusive in any respect, but frankly, an "innocent civilian" should hardly be expected to draw on and fire at a police officer whether or not the officer is drawing his gun or already has it drawn. Perhaps that might be mitigated when, unprovoked, the officer draws a bead on you, but by that point, it's pretty well too late: you're not going to get your gun out and shoot him first.

Today (i.e., in the last 20 years or so), police are trained to draw quickly and to train their gun on a suspect immediately. This is not a casual endeavor: they don't "pull a Barney Fife" and get out with their hands on their guns as if they might draw, but to draw with certainty and intent. Drawing a gun is not a casual affair: it signals someone that you are prepared to fire upon them, and if you fire upon them, you are prepared to kill them. How many "innocent civilians" are willing to "duel" with a trained professional who intends, if necessary, to kill them?

The only testimony regarding "state of mind" is that of Helen Markham, who characterized it as a "friendly" conversation or encounter. If there were conflicting testimony, I might be inclined to discount HM's characterization, but lacking it, I'd be hard pressed to manufacture this scenario beyond mere speculation. What — beyond speculation — would suggest "self-defense," even leaving the "coup de grace" out of the equation?

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Thomas,

My next trip to Dallas will consist of my taking many photos in the area of the Tippit killing [especially of the driveway and area behind the house and driveway there], and requesting access to the old Abundant Life Temple basement. Even if a bribe is required, I want to see the basement, where it seems very likely that Tippit's killer hid out until it was 'discovered' that the 'real' killer was in the theatre [The Abundant Life moved since then, but I believe the building remains].

One wonders about how much radio communication went on back then. There is the Mathers / Tippit / Collins connection. And Vaganov was also in Oak Cliff - with no alibi until 1:00pm. Maybe they were panicking when the DPD were swooping down on the Abundant Life Building, but the fact is, based upon the dictabelt transcripts, it does not appear that there would have been time to perform the search.

Austin was a Bircher. There was that letter to Garrison which alleged that Tippit was a homosexual. Olsen was in Oak Cliff and guarding an estate. Hicks was also off duty, as was Tilson - yet some 200 cops had to be obtained to provide additional support for the President's visit? I believe that I read that Tippit's partner was also requested by Tippit to call in sick [no reference]. Bizarre.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo4/jfk12/hscalojt.htm

- lee

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Thomas,

My next trip to Dallas will consist of my taking many photos in the area of the Tippit killing [especially of the driveway and area behind the house and driveway there], and requesting access to the old Abundant Life Temple basement. Even if a bribe is required, I want to see the basement, where it seems very likely that Tippit's killer hid out until it was 'discovered' that the 'real' killer was in the theatre [The Abundant Life moved since then, but I believe the building remains].

One wonders about how much radio communication went on back then. There is the Mathers / Tippit / Collins connection. And Vaganov was also in Oak Cliff - with no alibi until 1:00pm. Maybe they were panicking when the DPD were swooping down on the Abundant Life Building, but the fact is, based upon the dictabelt transcripts, it does not appear that there would have been time to perform the search.

Austin was a Bircher. There was that letter to Garrison which alleged that Tippit was a homosexual. Olsen was in Oak Cliff and guarding an estate. Hicks was also off duty, as was Tilson - yet some 200 cops had to be obtained to provide additional support for the President's visit? I believe that I read that Tippit's partner was also requested by Tippit to call in sick [no reference]. Bizarre.

- lee

Hi Lee,

Something I find ver-rww-ry interesting is the W.C. testimony of Mrs. Charlie Virginia Davis, an earwitness who lived at 400 East 10th Street, just one and two doors, respectively, from 404 and 410 East 10th St., between which the shooting occurred. In her testimony she implied that she saw Tippit's (police?)car at that "apartment house" (which must have been at 410 East 10th St.) SO OFTEN that she thought that he actually lived there (later, interestingly, she denied that that was what she had meant). IMO, the meaning of her original statement is pretty darn clear.... Also, let us not forget that the taxi driver William Scoggins suggested in his testimony that he saw Tippit every day in that particular part of town. I wonder if the "apartment house" at 410 East 10th Street (or a house behind it) was some sort of safe house...

Separate issue: Just out of curiosity, do you know the address of the building where the Abundant Life Temple was located? I'd like to look it up and see where it was in relation to LHO's boarding house, Ruby's apartment, the safe houses, the place where Tippit was shot, etc.

Thanks, Thomas

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Thomas,

My next trip to Dallas will consist of my taking many photos in the area of the Tippit killing [especially of the driveway and area behind the house and driveway there], and requesting access to the old Abundant Life Temple basement. Even if a bribe is required, I want to see the basement, where it seems very likely that Tippit's killer hid out until it was 'discovered' that the 'real' killer was in the theatre [The Abundant Life moved since then, but I believe the building remains].

One wonders about how much radio communication went on back then. There is the Mathers / Tippit / Collins connection. And Vaganov was also in Oak Cliff - with no alibi until 1:00pm. Maybe they were panicking when the DPD were swooping down on the Abundant Life Building, but the fact is, based upon the dictabelt transcripts, it does not appear that there would have been time to perform the search.

Austin was a Bircher. There was that letter to Garrison which alleged that Tippit was a homosexual. Olsen was in Oak Cliff and guarding an estate. Hicks was also off duty, as was Tilson - yet some 200 cops had to be obtained to provide additional support for the President's visit? I believe that I read that Tippit's partner was also requested by Tippit to call in sick [no reference]. Bizarre.

- lee

Hi Lee,

Something I find very interesting is the statement of a woman who lived really close to where the shooting occurred. She said something to the effect that she saw Tippit's (police?)car at the house two doors (?) down from hers (and practically in front of which the shooting(s) of Tippit occurred) SO OFTEN that she thought that he actually lived there (later, interestingly, she denied that that was what she had meant).

Separate issue: Just out of curiosity, do you know the address of the building where the Abundant Life Temple was located? I'd like to look it up and see where it was in relation to LHO's boarding house, Ruby's apartment, the safe houses, the place where Tippit was shot, etc.

Thanks, Thomas

-------------------------------------

Sounds like the building on Jefferson, which is on the second block of the purported LHO "escape" route from 10th and Patton. [about 4 to 5 short blocks from the Tippitt murder ? scene.

While working on the filming of JFK, Roy Hargraves and myself [accompanied by my wife & son, who followed slowly in a van] walked and re-walked all of the possible variations of this purported route.

Time wasn't as important as getting psyched up and trying to feel some adrenaline as one either "calmly" or "semi-frantically" escaped & evaded -- al the while searching for a safe hide-out.

Most obvious to us was this church-like building on the left side of Jefferson [when walking towards the Texas Theater]. We approached this building, and as expected, both the front and a side door were open and unlocked. An obvious "safe-haven" where one might wait out the expected "Dragnet" ??

Well, it depends on many factors. Was the perp under observation by folks along the boulevard, and/or did the perp just want to get some distance between his or herself before, as the Brits say: The quarry is forced to "Go to ground" ?!

Within a short distance was a funeral home, and according to the sign: it had been there for many years. It too was also open and unlocked during this mid-day & mid-week of early 1991.

The question I raised thereafter, with Oliver Stone, was somewhat inculpatory towards Johnny Brewer. Oliver immediately said that he had just finished one of many conversations with Brewer that very day. I asked [and received no definite response] from Oliver, Rusconi, et al.: What was the timeline from the moment of "confirmation" of the Tippit shooting -- and the time that Brewer either "heard the report on the radio" and/or "heard police? [or fire, ambulance] "SIREN(S)?? [multiple??] ??!!

As far as the "Art Department" [Camelot Project] analyses, ALL police cars racing for 10th & Patton [as opposed to those headed for the Texas Theater some time later] across the Viaduct from downtown Dallas, would have turned "left" [and just short of Jefferson] within a block off of the Viaduct -- and then continued on THE most Direct route to the shooting scene !!

Next we had some observers place themselves in the shopping strip [connecting the "Brewer" store with the Theater -- and awaited the sound of vehicles using the old "Q" type "air-siren", not the newer electronic ones. These sirens were used by all emergency vehicles; police, fire, and ambulance during 1963.

Most critical was the estimated number of responding police vehilces [headed for 10th & Patton] and there spacing and sequence. This "test" showed that even with numerous emergency sirens sounding -- as they turned short of Jefferson, would NOT have been readily heard, even by those who might be standing in front of the Texas Theater !! While those inside of, let's say the "Brewer" shoe store [whose current management was definetly NOT pleased to have us hanging out there] couldn't have heard a siren until the vehicle pulled onto Jefferson Blvd.

That I dared to raise the fact that Brewers kinfolk worked as "Marine Surveyors" for the CIA in Miami during 1960 thru 1965 -- raised some hackles. "...You mean that Brewer might have been complicit and yet he remains here speaking of those events in an open and friendly manner..??!!

Mayhaps it was my tone or the words contained in my response to whomever was the "fool" who asked that question.

I responded: "...Listen Asshole"....I just finished serving 8 years in the chain-gang...and let me set your ass straight...the nicest guys I dealt with on a daily basis...and inside the wire...were serial mass murderers...so don't give me that crap..!!" "...What I'm saying is...if he was just following orders...like awaiting a meeting or something...nothing sinister..and he thought he was just doing his duty or job...your goddamn right he could discuss these matters today...in a calm voice...especially after all these years...!!"

Vewwy Vewwy Intelllesting !!

CHAIRS,

GPH

_______________________

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Thomas,

My next trip to Dallas will consist of my taking many photos in the area of the Tippit killing [especially of the driveway and area behind the house and driveway there], and requesting access to the old Abundant Life Temple basement. Even if a bribe is required, I want to see the basement, where it seems very likely that Tippit's killer hid out until it was 'discovered' that the 'real' killer was in the theatre [The Abundant Life moved since then, but I believe the building remains].

One wonders about how much radio communication went on back then. There is the Mathers / Tippit / Collins connection. And Vaganov was also in Oak Cliff - with no alibi until 1:00pm. Maybe they were panicking when the DPD were swooping down on the Abundant Life Building, but the fact is, based upon the dictabelt transcripts, it does not appear that there would have been time to perform the search.

Austin was a Bircher. There was that letter to Garrison which alleged that Tippit was a homosexual. Olsen was in Oak Cliff and guarding an estate. Hicks was also off duty, as was Tilson - yet some 200 cops had to be obtained to provide additional support for the President's visit? I believe that I read that Tippit's partner was also requested by Tippit to call in sick [no reference]. Bizarre.

- lee

Hi Lee,

Something I find very interesting is the statement of a woman who lived really close to where the shooting occurred. She said something to the effect that she saw Tippit's (police?)car at the house two doors (?) down from hers (and practically in front of which the shooting(s) of Tippit occurred) SO OFTEN that she thought that he actually lived there (later, interestingly, she denied that that was what she had meant).

Separate issue: Just out of curiosity, do you know the address of the building where the Abundant Life Temple was located? I'd like to look it up and see where it was in relation to LHO's boarding house, Ruby's apartment, the safe houses, the place where Tippit was shot, etc.

Thanks, Thomas

-------------------------------------

Sounds like the building on Jefferson, which is on the second block of the purported LHO "escape" route from 10th and Patton. [about 4 to 5 short blocks from the Tippitt murder ? scene.

While working on the filming of JFK, Roy Hargraves and myself [accompanied by my wife & son, who followed slowly in a van] walked and re-walked all of the possible variations of this purported route.

Time wasn't as important as getting psyched up and trying to feel some adrenaline as one either "calmly" or "semi-frantically" escaped & evaded -- al the while searching for a safe hide-out.

Most obvious to us was this church-like building on the left side of Jefferson [when walking towards the Texas Theater]. We approached this building, and as expected, both the front and a side door were open and unlocked. An obvious "safe-haven" where one might wait out the expected "Dragnet" ??

Well, it depends on many factors. Was the perp under observation by folks along the boulevard, and/or did the perp just want to get some distance between his or herself before, as the Brits say: The quarry is forced to "Go to ground" ?!

Within a short distance was a funeral home, and according to the sign: it had been there for many years. It too was also open and unlocked during this mid-day & mid-week of early 1991.

The question I raised thereafter, with Oliver Stone, was somewhat inculpatory towards Johnny Brewer. Oliver immediately said that he had just finished one of many conversations with Brewer that very day. I asked [and received no definite response] from Oliver, Rusconi, et al.: What was the timeline from the moment of "confirmation" of the Tippit shooting -- and the time that Brewer either "heard the report on the radio" and/or "heard police? [or fire, ambulance] "SIREN(S)?? [multiple??] ??!!

As far as the "Art Department" [Camelot Project] analyses, ALL police cars racing for 10th & Patton [as opposed to those headed for the Texas Theater some time later] across the Viaduct from downtown Dallas, would have turned "left" [and just short of Jefferson] within a block off of the Viaduct -- and then continued on THE most Direct route to the shooting scene !!

Next we had some observers place themselves in the shopping strip [connecting the "Brewer" store with the Theater -- and awaited the sound of vehicles using the old "Q" type "air-siren", not the newer electronic ones. These sirens were used by all emergency vehicles; police, fire, and ambulance during 1963.

Most critical was the estimated number of responding police vehilces [headed for 10th & Patton] and there spacing and sequence. This "test" showed that even with numerous emergency sirens sounding -- as they turned short of Jefferson, would NOT have been readily heard, even by those who might be standing in front of the Texas Theater !! While those inside of, let's say the "Brewer" shoe store [whose current management was definetly NOT pleased to have us hanging out there] couldn't have heard a siren until the vehicle pulled onto Jefferson Blvd.

That I dared to raise the fact that Brewers kinfolk worked as "Marine Surveyors" for the CIA in Miami during 1960 thru 1965 -- raised some hackles. "...You mean that Brewer might have been complicit and yet he remains here speaking of those events in an open and friendly manner..??!!

Mayhaps it was my tone or the words contained in my response to whomever was the "fool" who asked that question.

I responded: "...Listen Asshole"....I just finished serving 8 years in the chain-gang...and let me set your ass straight...the nicest guys I dealt with on a daily basis...and inside the wire...were serial mass murderers...so don't give me that crap..!!" "...What I'm saying is...if he was just following orders...like awaiting a meeting or something...nothing sinister..and he thought he was just doing his duty or job...your goddamn right he could discuss these matters today...in a calm voice...especially after all these years...!!"

Vewwy Vewwy Intelllesting !!

CHAIRS,

GPH

_______________________

Outstanding post Mr. Hemming.

I tried to find out more info on JC Brewer - there seems to be very little, aside from an interview with Ian Griggs which essentially has Brewer as 'not supposed to be there' that day. He must have been a well paid shoe salesman to rate a brand new 1964-model Ford Galaxie XL500. "If not for Brewer..."

Here's a map someone did that illustrates the proximities. I don't know that it will be possible to get any radio broadcasts - as far as one account [where were you when...] I found on a Dallas Forum, a man made it very clear that his Mother was listening to the radio and heard the sounds of 'firecrackers' in the background, which may be why any trace of the broadcasts were 'collected.'

The Collins / Mathers / Tippit connection to the car with the Oswald lookalike is quite a bizarre tale. It makes me wonder just how extensive all the communications coordination was that day.

I reread the piece in Marrs 'Crossfire.' As per Mr Marrs, the search of the Abundant Temple building was called off, as the killer had been found at the Howard Hughes built Texas Theatre.

http://www.famoustexans.com/howardhughes.htm

It was in the '30s that Hughes built the Texas Theater, the movie house in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas in which Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested in 1963. The closeness of both men to the CIA makes it all but certain that the Texas Theater would have become a clandestine meeting place for spies. Such use of movie theaters had long been a staple of espionage tradecraft, and other Hughes properties were put to similar use. Hughes owned the RKO movie studio from 1948 to 1955.

...

Military-Industrial Complex: Throughout the 1950s, as the power of three entities grew -- the Hughes empire, organized crime, and the new Central Intelligence Agency -- it became all but impossible to distinguish between them. By the end of the decade, Hughes' chief of staff, Robert Maheu, had orchestrated the CIA's dirtiest secret -- plots to assassinate Cuban leader Fidel Castro with the help of two heads of organized crime. Vice President Richard Nixon was the White House action officer in the clandestine attempts to oust Castro. Zapata Off-Shore, the oil company owned by future CIA director and U.S. president George Bush after he split it off from Zapata Oil partner Hugh Liedtke in 1954, had a drilling rig on the Cay Sal Bank in 1958. These islands had been leased to Nixon supporter and CIA contractor Howard Hughes the previous year and were later used as a base for CIA raids on Cuba. Nixon lost the 1960 presidential election to John F. Kennedy largely because of a scandal over a never repaid $205,000 "loan" Nixon's brother received from Hughes. As attorney general, Robert Kennedy secretly investigated the Hughes-Nixon dealings.

Just another bizarre coincidence, and the fact that someone on eBay was selling a photo of the Kennedy Motorcade allegedly taken by Hughes bodyguard, who was standing with Howard, on the 'viewing stand.'

- lee

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Thomas,

My next trip to Dallas will consist of my taking many photos in the area of the Tippit killing [especially of the driveway and area behind the house and driveway there], and requesting access to the old Abundant Life Temple basement. Even if a bribe is required, I want to see the basement, where it seems very likely that Tippit's killer hid out until it was 'discovered' that the 'real' killer was in the theatre [The Abundant Life moved since then, but I believe the building remains].

One wonders about how much radio communication went on back then. There is the Mathers / Tippit / Collins connection. And Vaganov was also in Oak Cliff - with no alibi until 1:00pm. Maybe they were panicking when the DPD were swooping down on the Abundant Life Building, but the fact is, based upon the dictabelt transcripts, it does not appear that there would have been time to perform the search.

Austin was a Bircher. There was that letter to Garrison which alleged that Tippit was a homosexual. Olsen was in Oak Cliff and guarding an estate. Hicks was also off duty, as was Tilson - yet some 200 cops had to be obtained to provide additional support for the President's visit? I believe that I read that Tippit's partner was also requested by Tippit to call in sick [no reference]. Bizarre.

- lee

Hi Lee,

Something I find very interesting is the W.C. testimony of Mrs. Davis who lived at 400 East Patton, just one and two doors, respectively, from 404 East 10th St. and 410 East 10th St. between which the shooting occurred. She implied that she saw Tippit's (police?)car at what she calls "the apartment house" (at 410 East 10th St.?) SO OFTEN that she thought that he actually lived there (later, interestingly, she denied that that was what she had meant). Also, let us not forget the testimony of taxi driver William Scoggins which suggests that he saw Tippit in that very area every day. (I wonder if the "apartment house," or the one behind it, was some sort of safe house. Of course, some other sort of "hanky panky" involving Tippit could have been taking place there on a regular basis...)

Separate issue: Just out of curiosity, do you know the address of the building where the Abundant Life Temple was located? I'd like to look it up and see where it was in relation to LHO's boarding house, Ruby's apartment, the safe houses, the place where Tippit was shot, etc.

Thanks, Thomas

-------------------------------------

Sounds like the building on Jefferson, which is on the second block of the purported LHO "escape" route from 10th and Patton. [about 4 to 5 short blocks from the Tippitt murder ? scene.

While working on the filming of JFK, Roy Hargraves and myself [accompanied by my wife & son, who followed slowly in a van] walked and re-walked all of the possible variations of this purported route.

Time wasn't as important as getting psyched up and trying to feel some adrenaline as one either "calmly" or "semi-frantically" escaped & evaded -- al the while searching for a safe hide-out.

Most obvious to us was this church-like building on the left side of Jefferson [when walking towards the Texas Theater]. We approached this building, and as expected, both the front and a side door were open and unlocked. An obvious "safe-haven" where one might wait out the expected "Dragnet" ??

Well, it depends on many factors. Was the perp under observation by folks along the boulevard, and/or did the perp just want to get some distance between his or herself before, as the Brits say: The quarry is forced to "Go to ground" ?!

Within a short distance was a funeral home, and according to the sign: it had been there for many years. It too was also open and unlocked during this mid-day & mid-week of early 1991.

The question I raised thereafter, with Oliver Stone, was somewhat inculpatory towards Johnny Brewer. Oliver immediately said that he had just finished one of many conversations with Brewer that very day. I asked [and received no definite response] from Oliver, Rusconi, et al.: What was the timeline from the moment of "confirmation" of the Tippit shooting -- and the time that Brewer either "heard the report on the radio" and/or "heard police? [or fire, ambulance] "SIREN(S)?? [multiple??] ??!!

As far as the "Art Department" [Camelot Project] analyses, ALL police cars racing for 10th & Patton [as opposed to those headed for the Texas Theater some time later] across the Viaduct from downtown Dallas, would have turned "left" [and just short of Jefferson] within a block off of the Viaduct -- and then continued on THE most Direct route to the shooting scene !!

Next we had some observers place themselves in the shopping strip [connecting the "Brewer" store with the Theater -- and awaited the sound of vehicles using the old "Q" type "air-siren", not the newer electronic ones. These sirens were used by all emergency vehicles; police, fire, and ambulance during 1963.

Most critical was the estimated number of responding police vehilces [headed for 10th & Patton] and there spacing and sequence. This "test" showed that even with numerous emergency sirens sounding -- as they turned short of Jefferson, would NOT have been readily heard, even by those who might be standing in front of the Texas Theater !! While those inside of, let's say the "Brewer" shoe store [whose current management was definetly NOT pleased to have us hanging out there] couldn't have heard a siren until the vehicle pulled onto Jefferson Blvd.

That I dared to raise the fact that Brewers kinfolk worked as "Marine Surveyors" for the CIA in Miami during 1960 thru 1965 -- raised some hackles. "...You mean that Brewer might have been complicit and yet he remains here speaking of those events in an open and friendly manner..??!!

Mayhaps it was my tone or the words contained in my response to whomever was the "fool" who asked that question.

I responded: "...Listen Asshole"....I just finished serving 8 years in the chain-gang...and let me set your ass straight...the nicest guys I dealt with on a daily basis...and inside the wire...were serial mass murderers...so don't give me that crap..!!" "...What I'm saying is...if he was just following orders...like awaiting a meeting or something...nothing sinister..and he thought he was just doing his duty or job...your goddamn right he could discuss these matters today...in a calm voice...especially after all these years...!!"

Vewwy Vewwy Intelllesting !!

CHAIRS,

GPH

_______________________

Outstanding post Mr. Hemming.

I tried to find out more info on JC Brewer - there seems to be very little, aside from an interview with Ian Griggs which essentially has Brewer as 'not supposed to be there' that day. He must have been a well paid shoe salesman to rate a brand new 1964-model Ford Galaxie XL500. "If not for Brewer..."

Here's a map someone did that illustrates the proximities. I don't know that it will be possible to get any radio broadcasts - as far as one account [where were you when...] I found on a Dallas Forum, a man made it very clear that his Mother was listening to the radio and heard the sounds of 'firecrackers' in the background, which may be why any trace of the broadcasts were 'collected.'

The Collins / Mathers / Tippit connection to the car with the Oswald lookalike is quite a bizarre tale. It makes me wonder just how extensive all the communications coordination was that day.

I reread the piece in Marrs 'Crossfire.' As per Mr Marrs, the search of the Abundant Temple building was called off, as the killer had been found at the Howard Hughes built Texas Theatre.

http://www.famoustexans.com/howardhughes.htm

It was in the '30s that Hughes built the Texas Theater, the movie house in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas in which Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested in 1963. The closeness of both men to the CIA makes it all but certain that the Texas Theater would have become a clandestine meeting place for spies. Such use of movie theaters had long been a staple of espionage tradecraft, and other Hughes properties were put to similar use. Hughes owned the RKO movie studio from 1948 to 1955.

...

Military-Industrial Complex: Throughout the 1950s, as the power of three entities grew -- the Hughes empire, organized crime, and the new Central Intelligence Agency -- it became all but impossible to distinguish between them. By the end of the decade, Hughes' chief of staff, Robert Maheu, had orchestrated the CIA's dirtiest secret -- plots to assassinate Cuban leader Fidel Castro with the help of two heads of organized crime. Vice President Richard Nixon was the White House action officer in the clandestine attempts to oust Castro. Zapata Off-Shore, the oil company owned by future CIA director and U.S. president George Bush after he split it off from Zapata Oil partner Hugh Liedtke in 1954, had a drilling rig on the Cay Sal Bank in 1958. These islands had been leased to Nixon supporter and CIA contractor Howard Hughes the previous year and were later used as a base for CIA raids on Cuba. Nixon lost the 1960 presidential election to John F. Kennedy largely because of a scandal over a never repaid $205,000 "loan" Nixon's brother received from Hughes. As attorney general, Robert Kennedy secretly investigated the Hughes-Nixon dealings.

Just another bizarre coincidence, and the fact that someone on eBay was selling a photo of the Kennedy Motorcade allegedly taken by Hughes bodyguard, who was standing with Howard, on the 'viewing stand.'

- lee

Excellent thread. Thanks for the great map, Lee. Do you happen to know the address of the former Temple of Abundant Life?

Thanks, Thomas

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In his book, Who Killed Kennedy? (May, 1964) Thomas G. Buchanan suggests that J. D. Tippit was involved in the conspiracy to kill JFK. Buchanan, who was living in France at the time (he had lost his job with the Washington Evening Star in 1948 because of his alleged membership of the American Communist Party). He claims that there were several stories circulating in Europe at this time that Tippit was a member of the team that was involved in the plot against Kennedy.

Buchanan refers to an article written by Serge Groussard in L’Aurore (a right-wing newspaper which had supported the O.A.S. during the Algerian War). Groussard claimed he had received information that Tippit had been employed to help a man escape from Dallas. He was not told what crime the man had done (or was about to do). When he realised that the man who he was supposed to help had killed JFK, he changed his mind and tried to arrest Oswald. When Oswald realized what was happening, he killed Tippit.

Buchanan rejects this theory. However, he does believe that Tippit was involved in the conspiracy. He puts forward the following points to support this view:

(1) The physical description of Oswald giving out by the Dallas Police was not accurate enough for Tippit to have recognized him. What is more, as Oswald had already returned home to change, the description of his clothing was no longer valid.

(2) Tippit was alone at the time that he apprehended Oswald. According to Buchanan: “Standing orders for police in Dallas, as in other cities, are that radio cars of the type Tippit was driving must have two policemen in them.”

(3) Tippit was not in the sector of Dallas where he had been assigned the day before. He should “have been in downtown Dallas at the time he intercepted Oswald half way between Oswald’s room and Ruby’s”.

(4) Tippit violated police procedure by “failing to make use of the radio beside him to notify his fellow-officers that he was stopping to question a suspect in the Kennedy assassination”.

(5) According to one witness “Oswald smiled at Tippit when he saw him, ambled over to the scout car, and they had an amicable conversation for almost a minute. Tippit staying in the car and Oswald standing in the street beside his rolled-down car window.”

(6) Buchanan claimed that Eva Grant had told reporters that Ruby and Oswald “were like brothers”.

What do members think? Was Tippit involved in the conspiracy? If so, what was his role?

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George

This is a good scenario and explains alot.

The various witnesses place people other than Oswald and a police car, and a man

confirming the murder at the site of tippits death.

Tippetts murder was part of the frame.

It made Oswald "guilty" of the murder, if the evidence wasn't strong for Kennedy, the cumulative

evidence of both were more convincing.

WHy was Tippett killed?

He may have tried to prevent the murder of JFK, the escape of Lee Oswald, or both.

We really don't know where he was at 12.30 do we?

He was looking for someone (Oswald? Roscoe White?) and the spare uniform points to the whole

"two cops drive out to Redbird airfield and David Ferrie flies one of them to Mexico" scenario.

This is a great thread, thanks for reviving it.................

[

Hi Shanet

Thanks, nice to see you back again!

I believe the Tippit murder plays a bigger role in the case than many others do. Most are satisfied that he was killed by Oswald in an act of self defence. If you look at the scene and especially the way Tippit was killed it does not match any scenario of a person acting in self defence by shooting his way out. I’ve been reading a lot about modern profiling and it would be interesting if a professional profiler would analyse the killing of Tippit. I doubt very much that he would come to the same conclusion that the killing was the act of someone who was trying to avoid arrest. A shoot at almost point blank to Tippit’s temple would hardly fit a fugitive scenario.

George

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Nic

What do you think about that Tippitt death scene, looks like a closely managed group effort...I always had problems with the Tippitt murder, the number of people (who didn't look like Oswald) being the chief difficulty.

shanet

It looks really planned, doesn't it? I mean, it's so clean, and almost predictable. It reminds me of like, watching a Marilyn Manson performance. Designed to shock and think, "Oh, it's so terrible, that poor police officer." But when you step back, it looks extremely theatrical and staged to the last detail.

I think a police officer had to die, to staple in everyone's mind that this guy had this problem with authority, and why else would Tippit have to die unless Oswald was supposedly scared of being arrested? If you didn't want to draw suspicion on yourself, why shoot a police officer in broad daylight?

If Oswald did it alone, he managed to murder the President of the United States in a packed Plaza in broad daylight, with only a VAGUE description of him getting out, and people doubting his guilt forty years later. WHY, would someone THAT intelligent, shoot a police officer in broad daylight with tons of witnesses nearby, and no one that could be mistaken as another suspect.

Well, the WC's deal, of course, was that Oswald "wanted to get caught" to enjoy his 15 minutes of fame. But as Harold Weisberg said (in Whitewash, I think), if he wanted to get caught, why run?

There weren't all that many witnesses about, and I don't think it mattered that any of them saw the shooter, any more than it mattered that his fingerprints might be on the shells he emptied onto the Davis' lawn (not that I suspect there were any on 'em anyway). The shooter wasn't going to get caught (he wasn't), someone else would be blamed (and was!), and others would ensure that any traces he left behind were obliterated (they did and they were).

The "problem with authority" issue, I think, is an unintended but fortuitous by-product of the killing. The main purpose of the Tippit shooting was to draw as many police away from Dealey Plaza as possible. That is, it was a diversion, plain and simple. If you check officers' reports and testimonies, you'll see that that worked as well!

Given the magnitude of the crime downtown, can you think of anything less than killing a cop that would draw sufficient attention to virtually empty DP of cops and allow anyone who was involved to escape? For all the things that DPD didn't do while there, is it possible, even probable, that given additional time, they might have done them eventually, like searching cars' trunks (boots), etc.?

The main questions in my mind is why Tippit and Nelson were chosen: it was not pure dumb luck, good or bad, that Tippit happened to be where he was ... tho' Nelson had the good luck of ignoring his orders (even telling the dispatcher that he was!) and ending up at the TSBD. Did someone have a gripe with him, or was he merely considered expendable, not much of a loss at all? After all, he was only ever considered a "hero" after he failed to successfully defend himself!

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Nic

What do you think about that Tippitt death scene, looks like a closely managed group effort...I always had problems with the Tippitt murder, the number of people (who didn't look like Oswald) being the chief difficulty.

shanet

It looks really planned, doesn't it? I mean, it's so clean, and almost predictable. It reminds me of like, watching a Marilyn Manson performance. Designed to shock and think, "Oh, it's so terrible, that poor police officer." But when you step back, it looks extremely theatrical and staged to the last detail.

I think a police officer had to die, to staple in everyone's mind that this guy had this problem with authority, and why else would Tippit have to die unless Oswald was supposedly scared of being arrested? If you didn't want to draw suspicion on yourself, why shoot a police officer in broad daylight?

If Oswald did it alone, he managed to murder the President of the United States in a packed Plaza in broad daylight, with only a VAGUE description of him getting out, and people doubting his guilt forty years later. WHY, would someone THAT intelligent, shoot a police officer in broad daylight with tons of witnesses nearby, and no one that could be mistaken as another suspect.

Well, the WC's deal, of course, was that Oswald "wanted to get caught" to enjoy his 15 minutes of fame. But as Harold Weisberg said (in Whitewash, I think), if he wanted to get caught, why run?

There weren't all that many witnesses about, and I don't think it mattered that any of them saw the shooter, any more than it mattered that his fingerprints might be on the shells he emptied onto the Davis' lawn (not that I suspect there were any on 'em anyway). The shooter wasn't going to get caught (he wasn't), someone else would be blamed (and was!), and others would ensure that any traces he left behind were obliterated (they did and they were).

The "problem with authority" issue, I think, is an unintended but fortuitous by-product of the killing. The main purpose of the Tippit shooting was to draw as many police away from Dealey Plaza as possible. That is, it was a diversion, plain and simple. If you check officers' reports and testimonies, you'll see that that worked as well!

Given the magnitude of the crime downtown, can you think of anything less than killing a cop that would draw sufficient attention to virtually empty DP of cops and allow anyone who was involved to escape? For all the things that DPD didn't do while there, is it possible, even probable, that given additional time, they might have done them eventually, like searching cars' trunks (boots), etc.?

The main questions in my mind is why Tippit and Nelson were chosen: it was not pure dumb luck, good or bad, that Tippit happened to be where he was ... tho' Nelson had the good luck of ignoring his orders (even telling the dispatcher that he was!) and ending up at the TSBD. Did someone have a gripe with him, or was he merely considered expendable, not much of a loss at all? After all, he was only ever considered a "hero" after he failed to successfully defend himself!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The main purpose of the Tippit shooting was to draw as many police away from Dealey Plaza as possible.[/b] That is, it was a diversion, plain and simple. If you check officers' reports and testimonies, you'll see that that worked as well!

Given the magnitude of the crime downtown, can you think of anything less than killing a cop that would draw sufficient attention to virtually empty DP of cops and allow anyone who was involved to escape

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An excellent and "almost" original concept, which could have merit.

At least worthy of mention.

You may wish to check into the other three or so items which were also occurring, which if recalled correctly included a bank holdup, a fire, and I believe that it was a bomb at the YMCA.

(these three items along with the RMN in Dallas eliminate the "original" concept for the idea)

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Thomas,

My next trip to Dallas will consist of my taking many photos in the area of the Tippit killing [especially of the driveway and area behind the house and driveway there], and requesting access to the old Abundant Life Temple basement. Even if a bribe is required, I want to see the basement, where it seems very likely that Tippit's killer hid out until it was 'discovered' that the 'real' killer was in the theatre [The Abundant Life moved since then, but I believe the building remains].

One wonders about how much radio communication went on back then. There is the Mathers / Tippit / Collins connection. And Vaganov was also in Oak Cliff - with no alibi until 1:00pm. Maybe they were panicking when the DPD were swooping down on the Abundant Life Building, but the fact is, based upon the dictabelt transcripts, it does not appear that there would have been time to perform the search.

Austin was a Bircher. There was that letter to Garrison which alleged that Tippit was a homosexual. Olsen was in Oak Cliff and guarding an estate. Hicks was also off duty, as was Tilson - yet some 200 cops had to be obtained to provide additional support for the President's visit? I believe that I read that Tippit's partner was also requested by Tippit to call in sick [no reference]. Bizarre.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo4/jfk12/hscalojt.htm

- lee

I will be in the area today — or, if not today, then next week — and I'll take a few photos for you.

The Abundant Life Temple (ALT) was at or near the corner of 10th and Crawford, one block west of the Tippit scene. While it could easily have been reached by the shooter — who was last seen going behind the Texaco station at the corner of Jefferson and Crawford, i.e., back in the direction of ALT — I think it more likely that he was picked up in a car somewhere along Crawford rather than having ducked inside.

Still, being inside is a possibility given the perfunctory "search" of the premises: one cop merely asking the women inside if they'd seen anyone come inside and, being told they had not, he simply went back outside, where he stood, leaning against a police cruiser, chatting with another officer. There was, then, apparently plenty of time to search the place, contrary to whatever leads you to believe that there might not have been.

I wish I could remember where I'd seen some fairly good low-level aerials of the area that showed where the ALT, the abandoned houses that were searched, and several other points of interest were located. As for the immediate area of the shooting, as you will see in the photos I'll be taking, it has changed considerably and is now undergoing some much-needed rehabilitation, with new garden homes being constructed, including one at the site of the rooming house in front of which Tippit was killed (the first two homes in from the corner — the Davis sisters-in-law's and the next one in — have been demolished and are now just vacant lots. There are no driveways to speak of for them, as I best recall at the moment). Scoggins' "gentlemen's [or dominoes] club" is now an auto repair garage. The alleyway still exists, however.

There are generally no basements in Texas, in homes or otherwise, but if possible, I'll check to see if this particular building (the ALT) has one.

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... The main purpose of the Tippit shooting was to draw as many police away from Dealey Plaza as possible.[/b] That is, it was a diversion, plain and simple. If you check officers' reports and testimonies, you'll see that that worked as well!

Given the magnitude of the crime downtown, can you think of anything less than killing a cop that would draw sufficient attention to virtually empty DP of cops and allow anyone who was involved to escape.

An excellent and "almost" original concept, which could have merit. At least worthy of mention.

You may wish to check into the other three or so items which were also occurring, which if recalled correctly included a bank holdup, a fire, and I believe that it was a bomb at the YMCA.

(these three items along with the RMN in Dallas eliminate the "original" concept for the idea)

I don't recall seeing those items mentioned in the DPD tapes — there were plenty of other incidents that officers were told to ignore — but I'll look into them. The question remains, tho': how many officers left their posts in Dealey Plaza, with or without notification, in person or by radio, and responded to them? If memory serves, the answer is "nineteen" with respect to the Tippit call.

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You may wish to check into the other three or so items which were also occurring, which if recalled correctly included a bank holdup, a fire, and I believe that it was a bomb at the YMCA.

Interesting as always Tom! I had never heard that before - thanks.

Let's reword this quote from Simkin using some speculation:

Buchanan refers to an article written by Serge Groussard in L’Aurore (a right-wing newspaper which had supported the O.A.S. during the Algerian War). Groussard claimed he had received information that Tippit had been employed to help a man escape from Dallas. He was not told what crime the man had done (or was about to do). When he realised that the man who he was supposed to help had killed JFK, he changed his mind and tried to arrest Oswald. When Oswald realized what was happening, he killed Tippit.
Buchanan refers to an article written by Serge Groussard in L’Aurore (a right-wing newspaper which had supported the O.A.S. during the Algerian War). Groussard claimed he had received information that Tippit had been employed to help a man escape from Dallas. He was not told what crime the man had done (or was about to do). When he realised that the man who he was supposed to help had killed JFK, he changed his mind and tried to back out of the deal. However, he was screwing with a professional contract assassin, brokered Internationally through local US Maffia resources, from France. An old OAS guy himself, and not to be 'screwed' with. This had nothing to do with any Lee, Leon, Leopoldo, Harvey or Oswald. It had to do with business. Taking care of the shooter and ensuring his safe passage was a priority. And Tippit got cold feet and was fixing to doublecross.

I like that scenario myself.

Poor damn cop. Poor damn cop.

Third page of Scoggins affidavit.

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