Leopoldo and Angel

[Lee Forman]

Hosty interview:

I think Silvia Odio claimed that she saw this guy with two

Latin types in, late September wasn't it?

BOCHAN:  Yes, late September.

HOSTY:    Yeah, see now we're into November where two months

later, she sees his picture and says, 'hmmm, I wonder if

that could be him,' and, 'that's going to implicate the

Cuban exile community and this is going to hurt it all,' and

so she kept it to herself.  And then had a fit of hysteria

over it.  And then reluctantly told us about it.

Now, I believe that she believes that she saw Oswald.  But

I'm convinced that the story that we finally came up with

about Seymour, is who she saw who looked somewhat like

Oswald.

Now Loran Hall, not Leon, but Loran Hall was the one that

said yes, we were up there.  Now we can prove that Loran

Hall and I forget the other two guys' names were in Dallas

at the time.  I think they were arrested or stopped or

questioned or something.  So they were definitely there.

BOCHAN:  Yeah, Seymour and Howard.

HOSTY:    Howard!  That's the other one.  And, after Loran

Hall told us this, Seymour and Howard jumped all over him

because see, what he in effect had done, he had told us that

Seymour had committed a violation of law.  It is a violation

to threaten to kill the president.  And the Secret Service

could have arrested him.  So they put pressure on him and he

changed his story.

[is that Hosty's opinion of what transpired?]

Now, Loran Hall then went into hiding - he was fearful of

his life.

BOCHAN:  Yes, I'm looking at an FBI report dated October

1964, and Hall basically denies ever even having contact

with Odio.

HOSTY:    The second time.  No, the first time he said he

did.

BOCHAN:  Oh?

HOSTY:    Then after pressure from Seymour and Howard, he

changed his mind.  Then he went into hiding.  No, he said

yes, and we can prove that they were in Dallas at the time.

You got to remember too, that the Cubans like anybody else,

would say that 'well you Gringos all look alike.'  I think

that she saw somebody that looked like Oswald, two months

after the fact,  she said, 'oh that guy who threatened to

kill Kennedy,' and 'that's him! That's him!'

We had all sorts of leads like that. 

If all the people said they saw Oswald, turned out to be

Oswald, there wouldn't have been a "double" - there would

have been a hundred Oswalds running around.

BOCHAN:  And that would have really presented problems.

[Thomas Graves]

Thanks Larry and Christy.

It appears we have some common ground for Angel and that certainly doesn't fit Lawrence Howard.

I remember a description of Leopoldo as being tall with a receding hairline but for the life of me can't recall the source. It may have been Odio but I'm not sure.

The New Orleans encounter with Orest Pena may be significant here. Thanks for your replies.

James

Written in 1966,one of 10 verses,Re Lorenzo and Alonzo.

If any would think that I jest

And fun at me would press

Of Kennedy's plotters I shall say

Two more lived here in East L.A.

To their war names they did resort

They are Leopoldo and Angelo in the

warren report.

Harry,

Did you know Lorenzo and/or Alonzo personally?

Were the other nine verses about them as well?

Edit: Was this "Lorenzo" the same person as Loren Eugene Hall (aka "Lorenzo Eugenio Pascillo" and "Skip Hall")?

If you knew Hall personally, how tall would you say he was?

Thanks,

--Tommy

Edited October 17, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[Harry J.Dean]

Hi, Tommy

Yes I knew both quite well, we were involved in several activities.

Yes Lorenzo was Hall, he was a least 6' tall. Yes Alonzo was

Howard.

The other 9 verses were about them and their connections.

Harry

[David Boylan]

Hey Harry,

Long time!

Harry, what do ou remember about John Lechner or Burt Mold?

(Lechner's name and organization was listed in Richard Case Nagell's notebook. The entry was "Dr. John Lechner, Americanism Educational League.")

[John Dolva]

"During the course of his speech, Meese reminisced about his long career and affiliation with the late President Ronald Reagan, starting from the time when Reagan became Governor of the State of California. He spoke to the crowd about the importance of patriotism and citizenship in today's world, and thanked the Americanism Education League for their noble efforts and dedication for enhancing students' understanding of American history."

http://articles.glendalenewspress.com/2007-02-26/local/lacressentaonline_lso-aeldinner1109_1_glenn-ford-american-history-guest-speaker

[Harry J.Dean]

Hey Harry,

Long time!

Harry, what do ou remember about John Lechner or Burt Mold?

(Lechner's name and organization was listed in Richard Case Nagell's notebook. The entry was "Dr. John Lechner, Americanism Educational League.")

Hey Harry,

Long time!

Harry, what do ou remember about John Lechner or Burt Mold?

(Lechner's name and organization was listed in Richard Case Nagell's notebook. The entry was "Dr. John Lechner, Americanism Educational League.")

Hi David

I did know Dr. Lechner as one of the leading lights equally with other Birch Society elites in southern California.

There was a greater connection between he and Guy Gabaldon, financially.

Burt Mold is a name not recalled, no doubt I must have met or seen him?

Always nice to chat with you, am usually not signed-in on the Forum

but am on daily.

Harry

[David Boylan]

Harry,

Was Lechner one of the guys that helped secure the rifles and medical supplies that Hall, Howard and Castro-Alba brought to Dallas and then later to Miami?

[Harry J.Dean]

David

All of these people were connected at every level, whatever the titles of organizations.

All were following JBS Total philosophy. A combined movement.

Gabaldon and I collected the medical supply's, it is assumed that Lechner set-up the

list we followed, The weapons & ammo came to El Monte from Los Angeles where

Hall & Howard picked up the entire load.

Harry

[Thomas Graves]

David

All of these people were connected at every level, whatever the titles of organizations.

All were following JBS Total philosophy. A combined movement.

Gabaldon and I collected the medical supply's, it is assumed that Lechner set-up the

list we followed, The weapons & ammo came to El Monte from Los Angeles where

Hall & Howard picked up the entire load.

Harry

Would someone please remind me why Hall and Howard decided to take a bus from Dallas to Miami, temporarily leaving the loaded trailer in Dallas rather than continue towing it all the way to its eventual destination of Miami?

Could it have been to give Hall and Seymour a plausible reason to be in Dallas a bit later?

Thanks,

--Tommy

Edited October 24, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[David Boylan]

David

All of these people were connected at every level, whatever the titles of organizations.

All were following JBS Total philosophy. A combined movement.

Gabaldon and I collected the medical supply's, it is assumed that Lechner set-up the

list we followed, The weapons & ammo came to El Monte from Los Angeles where

Hall & Howard picked up the entire load.

Harry

Would someone please remind me why Hall and Howard decided to take a bus from Dallas to Miami, temporarily leaving the loaded trailer in Dallas rather than continue towing it all the way to its eventual destination of Miami?

Could it have been to give Hall and Seymour a plausible reason to be in Dallas a bit later?

Thanks,

--Tommy

So that John Masen could convert them to full auto.

[Paul Trejo]

David

All of these people were connected at every level, whatever the titles of organizations.

All were following JBS Total philosophy. A combined movement.

Gabaldon and I collected the medical supply's, it is assumed that Lechner set-up the

list we followed, The weapons & ammo came to El Monte from Los Angeles where

Hall & Howard picked up the entire load.

Harry

Would someone please remind me why Hall and Howard decided to take a bus from Dallas to Miami, temporarily leaving the loaded trailer in Dallas rather than continue towing it all the way to its eventual destination of Miami?

Could it have been to give Hall and Seymour a plausible reason to be in Dallas a bit later?

Thanks,

--Tommy

Tommy, the connection of Loran Hall and Larry Howard with Lee Harvey Oswald at Sylvia Odio's residence in late September 1963, was the best-kept secret of the Warren Commission.

What is interesting to me is that when the FBI took Sylvia Odio's testimony, they almost immediately arrested Loran Hall, even though Odio could not identify his name or photo.

How did the FBI know that Loran Hall was the one they wanted?

At first, Loran Hall told the FBI that, yes, he and Larry Howard did visit Slyvia Odio, but not with Lee Harvey Oswald -- instead, the third person on that mission was William Seymour, who might look a little bit like Lee Harvey Oswald, thus confusing the sensitive Ms. Odio.

The FBI took that as a conclusion, and closed the case. When Ms. Odio objected, they branded her as a neurotic, and that was that -- for the time being. The Warren Report could go to print on schedule.

But later researchers spoke with Sylvia Odio to ask if she indeed might have been so exhausted as to mistake William Seymour for Lee Harvey Oswald. Ms. Odio is very intelligent and very well educated, very articulate and very clear. It was Lee Harvey Oswald and nobody else. Not just because he was standing in front of her at her doorway for nearly a half-hour, but more important than that, she stated -- she had seen Lee Harvey Oswald before that time, and actually she had even met him before.

This was news to me before I read it only this year -- it might be old hat to many of you. She was asked where she saw Oswald before, and she said that he actually spoke at a Cuban Exile rally in Texas, and she attended it, enjoyed his lecture, and walked up to meet him. It was no big deal, he was not the featured speaker of the evening, but she interacted with him and recognized his voice at her doorstep when he said merely, "Hello."

It was not William Seymour, it was Lee Harvey Oswald that day -- and therefore, Loran Hall lied with no shame whatsoever.

Why would Loran Hall lie about that? And why would he name William Seymour in Oswald's place?

Syliva Odio failed to identify photographs of Loran Hall and Larry Howard as Leopoldo and Angelo at her door that day -- but Loran Hall admitted it at first (and later denied it, claiming that they called upon a different rich Cuban Exile lady to ask for her support for bombing raids against Castro, although he could not remember the name of that lady).

Yet Sylvia Odio was not alone in her claim. Her younger sister also saw the three men at their door -- actually she opened the door first.

To understand Sylvia Odio's failure to identify photographs, we should bear in mind the extremely violent nature of Loran Hall and Larry Howard. They were desperate vigilantes. Howard (or Seymour) tried to kill Loran Hall for talking to the FBI and seeking out Jim Garrison. Threatening to kill Sylvia or her sisters would have been nothing to these chaps. (And the FBI showed no interest in protecting Sylvia - quite the contrary.)

What the FBI wanted to conceal (and continue to conceal through Chief Justice Earl Warren's ruling that major records about Lee Harvey Oswald must be sealed for 75 years) is that Lee Harvey Oswald had many known associates. Far from being a "loner" who went berzerk on his own, Oswald was a social and political personality who was frequently surrounded by people.

Knowing Oswald's associates is the first step in finding out the main secret of the Warren Commission, namely, Oswald's accomplices in the JFK assassination.

The testimony of Sylvia Odio is striking today because it matches the testimony of Harry Dean so closely. Loran Hall and Larry Howard had the task (and the money) underneath Guy Gabaldon of Mexico, to accompany Lee Harvey Oswald to Mexico in late September 1963. This is what Harry Dean reports. Sylvia Odio provides sworn eye-witness testimony that she saw Hall, Howard and Oswald together before her very eyes, at her very doorstep, for nearly a half-hour in late September 1963. She was not mistaken, she insists. These were the men.

This is firmer evidence than before -- we have two witnesses. Can we add more? I think so.

Let's return to the question of William Seymour; what links him to Loran Hall? William Seymour, Loran Hall and Larry Howard were all subordinates under Gerry Patrick Hemming in INTERPEN.

Gerry Patrick Hemming, who for the last years of his life was a member of this very FORUM, admitted many facts about INTERPEN to us -- for example, they visited ex-General Edwin Walker in Dallas from time to time. Gerry, Loran and the boys would sit out on the back porch at Walker's Dallas residence at 4011 Turtle Creek Boulevard, drinking beers, smoking cigarettes and shooting the bull about right-wing politics.

When he was directly asked to offer anything he knew about the JFK assassination, Gerry Patrick Hemming would evade the answer with the factoid that if he ever got any of his INTERPEN pals in trouble with public visibility, he himself could be killed "by accident" soon afterwards. He refused to do that.

This topic has a lot of energy. The boys of INTERPEN, simply because they operated with Walker and with several Minutemen, should all be of interest to us. Leopoldo and Angelo should top our list of suspects -- and anybody they hung around with should also be high on our list.

For example -- I for one would like to know as much as possible about William Seymour, and where he was on 22 November 1963.

Best regards

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 25, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

David

All of these people were connected at every level, whatever the titles of organizations.

All were following JBS Total philosophy. A combined movement.

Gabaldon and I collected the medical supply's, it is assumed that Lechner set-up the

list we followed, The weapons & ammo came to El Monte from Los Angeles where

Hall & Howard picked up the entire load.

Harry

Would someone please remind me why Hall and Howard decided to take a bus from Dallas to Miami, temporarily leaving the loaded trailer in Dallas rather than continue towing it all the way to its eventual destination of Miami?

Could it have been to give Hall and Seymour a plausible reason to be in Dallas a bit later?

Thanks,

--Tommy

Tommy, the connection of Loran Hall and Larry Howard with Lee Harvey Oswald at Sylvia Odio's residence in late September 1963, was the best-kept secret of the Warren Commission.

What is interesting to me is that when the FBI took Sylvia Odio's testimony, they almost immediately arrested Loran Hall, even though Odio could not identify his name or photo.

How did the FBI know that Loran Hall was the one they wanted?

At first, Loran Hall told the FBI that, yes, he and Larry Howard did visit Slyvia Odio, but not with Lee Harvey Oswald -- instead, the third person on that mission was William Seymour, who might look a little bit like Lee Harvey Oswald, thus confusing the sensitive Ms. Odio.

The FBI took that as a conclusion, and closed the case. When Ms. Odio objected, they branded her as a neurotic, and that was that -- for the time being. The Warren Report could go to print on schedule.

But later researchers spoke with Sylvia Odio to ask if she indeed might have been so exhausted as to mistake William Seymour for Lee Harvey Oswald. Ms. Odio is very intelligent and very well educated, very articulate and very clear. It was Lee Harvey Oswald and nobody else. Not just because he was standing in front of her at her doorway for nearly a half-hour, but more important than that, she stated -- she had seen Lee Harvey Oswald before that time, and actually she had even met him before.

This was news to me before I read it only this year -- it might be old hat to many of you. She was asked where she saw Oswald before, and she said that he actually spoke at a Cuban Exile rally in Texas, and she attended it, enjoyed his lecture, and walked up to meet him. It was no big deal, he was not the featured speaker of the evening, but she interacted with him and recognized his voice at her doorstep when he said merely, "Hello."

It was not William Seymour, it was Lee Harvey Oswald that day -- and therefore, Loran Hall lied with no shame whatsoever.

Why would Loran Hall lie about that? And why would he name William Seymour in Oswald's place?

Syliva Odio failed to identify photographs of Loran Hall and Larry Howard as Leopoldo and Angelo at her door that day -- but Loran Hall admitted it at first (and later denied it, claiming that they called upon a different rich Cuban Exile lady to ask for her support for bombing raids against Castro, although he could not remember the name of that lady).

Yet Sylvia Odio was not alone in her claim. Her younger sister also saw the three men at their door -- actually she opened the door first.

To understand Sylvia Odio's failure to identify photographs, we should bear in mind the extremely violent nature of Loran Hall and Larry Howard. They were desperate vigilantes. Howard (or Seymour) tried to kill Loran Hall for talking to the FBI and seeking out Jim Garrison. Threatening to kill Sylvia or her sisters would have been nothing to these chaps. (And the FBI showed no interest in protecting Sylvia - quite the contrary.)

What the FBI wanted to conceal (and continue to conceal through Chief Justice Earl Warren's ruling that major records about Lee Harvey Oswald must be sealed for 75 years) is that Lee Harvey Oswald had many known associates. Far from being a "loner" who went berzerk on his own, Oswald was a social and political personality who was frequently surrounded by people.

Knowing Oswald's associates is the first step in finding out the main secret of the Warren Commission, namely, Oswald's accomplices in the JFK assassination.

The testimony of Sylvia Odio is striking today because it matches the testimony of Harry Dean so closely. Loran Hall and Larry Howard had the task (and the money) underneath Guy Gabaldon of Mexico, to accompany Lee Harvey Oswald to Mexico in late September 1963. This is what Harry Dean reports. Sylvia Odio provides sworn eye-witness testimony that she saw Hall, Howard and Oswald together before her very eyes, at her very doorstep, for nearly a half-hour in late September 1963. She was not mistaken, she insists. These were the men.

This is firmer evidence than before -- we have two witnesses. Can we add more? I think so.

Let's return to the question of William Seymour; what links him to Loran Hall? William Seymour, Loran Hall and Larry Howard were all subordinates under Gerry Patrick Hemming in INTERPEN.

Gerry Patrick Hemming, who for the last years of his life was a member of this very FORUM, admitted many facts about INTERPEN to us -- for example, they visited ex-General Edwin Walker in Dallas from time to time. Gerry, Loran and the boys would sit out on the back porch at Walker's Dallas residence at 4011 Turtle Creek Boulevard, drinking beers, smoking cigarettes and shooting the bull about right-wing politics.

When he was directly asked to offer anything he knew about the JFK assassination, Gerry Patrick Hemming would evade the answer with the factoid that if he ever got any of his INTERPEN pals in trouble with public visibility, he himself could be killed "by accident" soon afterwards. He refused to do that.

This topic has a lot of energy. The boys of INTERPEN, simply because they operated with Walker and with several Minutemen, should all be of interest to us. Leopoldo and Angelo should top our list of suspects -- and anybody they hung around with should also be high on our list.

For example -- I for one would like to know as much as possible about William Seymour, and where he was on 22 November 1963.

Best regards

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

"Of course" (to use an old Tim Gratz standard phrase), I'm already aware of most if-not-all of this, but thank you for putting it so concisely and eloquently (sp?)!

I would say, however, that what I've read about the "Odio Incident" indicates that Sylvia (or is it Silvia?) was positive about Oswald's being there, but was much less certain about Hall and Howard...

--Tommy

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

"Of course" (to use an old Tim Gratz standard phrase), I'm already aware of most if-not-all of this...

I would say, however, that what I've read about the "Odio Incident" indicates that Sylvia (or is it Silvia?) was positive about Oswald's being there, but was much less certain about Hall and Howard...

--Tommy

Tommy, you're right, of course, that Sylvia (or Silvia, either way) Odio always hestitated to identify Loran as Leopoldo and Larry as Angelo. She could not identify them from FBI photographs. Her reasoning was that she never saw them before in her life, but Lee Oswald she had recognized from a previous meeting.

It makes equal or more sense to me, knowing the extremely violent nature of Loran Hall (and Larry Howard), and knowing that Loran Hall already had Sylvia's telephone number, that Loran Hall would never hestitate for one second to call Sylvia and threaten her life.

(To illustrate this well, please refer to this Nat'l Enquirer issue of 1968, in which Hall describes barely escaping with his own life: http://www.pet880.co...Enquirer_NB.pdf )

For some reason, the press and the FBI didn't press Odio very hard for the identity of the two "Cubans" but instead, wanted to know the identity of the "American."

It's a little bizarre because actually Loran Hall was a Cuban-American. He grew up in America. Also, Larry Howard was a Mexican-American -- he was born in East Los Angeles.

Sylvia did distinguish between Loran and Larry -- she said "one of them appeared to be a Mexican". Yes, that was Larry, who actually was a half-breed (as perhaps most Mexicans are) yet he really showed his mother's features of the Mayan profile.

The other one, said Sylvia, "could have been a Cuban", and like many Cubans, Loran was also a half-breed. Yet Loran could speak fluent Spanish (Cuban style) as well as tough street English. Being Cuban herself, Sylvia noted the Cuban element in Loran's heritage.

It is my personal opinion (without any proof yet) that Loran Hall called Sylvia Odio several times (not just that one famous time) and that most of those calls threatened violence if she dared name him.

What evidence do I have? It is the puzzle that after Sylvia Odio told the FBI her story in late 1964, that the FBI made a bee-line to Loran Hall's address and brought him in for questioning. It was quick. It was so quick that Loran Hall hardly had time to think of a really good lie, so he simply denied the presence of Lee Harvey Oswald during that visit, but he confessed that he and Larry Howard did visit Sylvia Odio. That is a matter of FBI record. Instead of Oswald, claimed Loran Hall, the third man was really William Seymour. (Why this man? The rumors will fly.)

It is a fact that the FBI promptly questioned Loran Hall after hearing Sylvia Odio's story. That's my evidence. If there's a better explanation, I would sincerely like to hear it.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited October 26, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Paul,

"Of course" (to use an old Tim Gratz standard phrase), I'm already aware of most if-not-all of this...

I would say, however, that what I've read about the "Odio Incident" indicates that Sylvia (or is it Silvia?) was positive about Oswald's being there, but was much less certain about Hall and Howard...

--Tommy

Tommy, you're right, of course, that Sylvia (or Silvia, either way) Odio always hestitated to identify Loran as Leopoldo and Larry as Angelo. She could not identify them from FBI photographs. Her reasoning was that she never saw them before in her life, but Lee Oswald she had recognized from a previous meeting.

It makes equal or more sense to me, knowing the extremely violent nature of Loran Hall (and Larry Howard), and knowing that Loran Hall already had Sylvia's telephone number, that Loran Hall would never hestitate for one second to call Sylvia and threaten her life.

(To illustrate this well, please refer to this Nat'l Enquirer issue of 1968, in which Hall describes barely escaping with his own life: http://www.pet880.co...Enquirer_NB.pdf )

For some reason, the press and the FBI didn't press Odio very hard for the identity of the two "Cubans" but instead, wanted to know the identity of the "American."

It's a little bizarre because actually Loran Hall was a Cuban-American. He grew up in America. Also, Larry Howard was a Mexican-American -- he grew up in Los Angeles.

Sylvia did distinguish between Loran and Larry -- she said "one of them appeared to be a Mexican". Yes, that was Larry, who actually was a half-breed (as perhaps most Mexicans are) yet he really showed his mother's features of the Mayan profile.

The other one, said Sylvia, "could have been a Cuban", and like many Cubans, Loran was also a half-breed. Yet Loran could speak fluent Spanish (Cuban style) as well as tough street English. Being Cuban herself, Sylvia noted the Cuban element in Loran's heritage.

It is my personal opinion (without any proof yet) that Loran Hall called Sylvia Odio several times (not just that one famous time) and that most of those calls threatened violence if she dared name him.

What evidence do I have? It is the puzzle that after Sylvia Odio told the FBI her story in late 1964, that the FBI made a bee-line to Loran Hall's address and brought him in for questioning. It was quick. It was so quick that Loran Hall hardly had time to think of a really good lie, so he simply denied the presence of Lee Harvey Oswald during that visit, but he confessed that he and Larry Howard did visit Sylvia Odio. That is a matter of FBI record. Instead of Oswald, claimed Loran Hall, the third man was really William Seymour. (Why this man? The rumors will fly.)

It is a fact that the FBI promptly questioned Loran Hall after hearing Sylvia Odio's story. That's my evidence. If there's a better explanation, I would sincerely like to hear it.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

I agree, Paul. And thanks for the National Enquirer Article. Good stuff, and it has a photo of Hall I'd never seen before. The only problem I have with the possibility of Hall's being "Leopoldo" is that I've read that Hall was "only" 5'10" (and weighed 160-165 lbs), whereas Sylvia described "Leopoldo" as being at least six foot tall and being "thin." I mean, if Hall really was 5'10"/160-165, was 5'10" considered "tall" for a Cuban or Cuban-American male in 1963? Perhaps so. But Sylvia also did say that "Leopoldo" was "thin." So I gotta ask-- Does being 5'10" tall and weighing160-165 lbs constitute being "thin"? Hall certainly doesn't look "thin" to me in that well-known photo showing him (apparently) lecturing Howard in the presence of Seymour and and unidentified Interpen-type Latin-looking young male. Know the photo I'm referring to? (OK, everything is relative, I suppose. Maybe Sylvia was, metaphorically speaking, a "midget" and "Leopoldo" just looked "tall" to her. I mean, (to use an old Jim DiEugenio phrase), I mean, over the years I've shrunk down to my present measly 6'3.5" and weigh 200 lbs, and even complete strangers will tell me, when prompted, that I do look "thin", especially when I suck my old beer belly in. But perhaps more importantly, Sylvia said several times that "Leopoldo" had an unusual (sloping?) forehead and/or strange (receding?) hairline or top/side hair or something like that and I just don't see evidence of that in the few photos of Hall that I have seen so far. (But, Bernardo De Torres on the other hand, was tall and thin and hairy and did have a sloping forehead and a seriously receding hairline. Hmmm.....)

Also, I believe that both Hall and Howard had full beards at that time and Sylvia doesn't mention that, as far as I know, although I think she does say something about one of them having a "moustache" (and no, I'm not talking about the light, few-days-growth-moustache or "shadow" she said the "Oswald" figure was sporting, I'm talking about one of the other dudes). I will say, however that Hall does meet her description of "Leopoldo's" having hairy arms as well as hair showing on his upper chest above his shirt's collar line. Now, regarding "Angel" I believe she described him as having a face that looked sunburned or seriously weathered or something like that about his complexion (but not acne). Is there any indication that this part of the description fits Larry Howard? (It reminds me more of Hargraves, but then again, maybe it was just a temporary sunburn thing.) And while we're at it, does anyone know about how tall Larry Howard was and how much he weighed at the time?

I do, however, want to fervently believe that Hall and Howard and Oswald visited the Odio sisters in late September, 1963. Therfore, and assuming that they did, I suppose I'll now have to do some "research" to determine if there's any "evidence" that Hall and/or Howard actually did, as they later claimed, take a bus from Dallas to Miami after the Odio meeting, or whether it's possible that one or both of them accompanied (or followed) LHO at least part way to Mexico City. I should know the answer to this already, but my memory is even worse now than it used to be. Yes, I'm aware that CIA agent Gaudet's Mexican tourist visa number was only one removed from Oswald's and that the mysterious Osborne/Bowen rode on the same bus as Oswald did to M.C. As far as I know, the FBI never did determine how LHO travelled from New Orleans to Houston while on his way to Mexico City. I'm thinking maybe H and H left the trailer in Dallas and then gave LHO a ride to Houston, or perhaps even points farther south. Edit: If they did take a bus to Miami, what did they do with the car? Leave it with the trailer?

Thanks,

--Tommy

P.S. I took the liberty of correcting one of your sentences so that it now reads, "Also, Larry Howard was a Mexican-American -- He grew up in Los Angeles."

P.P.S. Is it a fair paraphrasing of the last part of your post to say that you find highly suspicious the fact that Hall so evidently (since he later retracted it under serious death threats/actions directed towards him by fellow Interpen members) "blew it" by substituting the name of Oswald-look-alike William Seymour for LHO (because he hadn't had enough time to make up an equally-plausible story that wouldn't implicate a fellow Interpen member, Seymour, in the assassination of JFK)? If so, I would tend to agree with you. In fact, it reminds me of GPH's telling Weberman, in so many words, "Heck, Hall couldn't even talk straight."

Edited October 26, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

I agree, Paul. And thanks for the National Enquirer Article. Good stuff, and it has a photo of Hall I'd never seen before. The only problem I have with the possibility of Hall's being "Leopoldo" is that I've read that Hall was "only" 5'10" (and weighed 160-165 lbs), whereas Sylvia described "Leopoldo" as being at least six foot tall and being "thin." I mean, if Hall really was 5'10"/160-165, was 5'10" considered "tall" for a Cuban or Cuban-American male in 1963? Perhaps so. But Sylvia also did say that "Leopoldo" was "thin." So I gotta ask-- Does being 5'10" tall and weighing160-165 lbs constitute being "thin"? Hall certainly doesn't look "thin" to me in that well-known photo showing him (apparently) lecturing Howard in the presence of Seymour and and unidentified Interpen-type Latin-looking young male. Know the photo I'm referring to? (OK, everything is relative, I suppose. Maybe Sylvia was, metaphorically speaking, a "midget" and "Leopoldo" just looked "tall" to her. I mean, (to use an old Jim DiEugenio phrase), I mean, over the years I've shrunk down to my present measly 6'3.5" and weigh 200 lbs, and even complete strangers will tell me, when prompted, that I do look "thin", especially when I suck my old beer belly in. But perhaps more importantly, Sylvia said several times that "Leopoldo" had an unusual (sloping?) forehead and/or strange (receding?) hairline or top/side hair or something like that and I just don't see evidence of that in the few photos of Hall that I have seen so far. (But, Bernardo De Torres on the other hand, was tall and thin and hairy and did have a sloping forehead and a seriously receding hairline. Hmmm.....)

Also, I believe that both Hall and Howard had full beards at that time and Sylvia doesn't mention that, as far as I know, although I think she does say something about one of them having a "moustache" (and no, I'm not talking about the light, few-days-growth-moustache or "shadow" she said the "Oswald" figure was sporting, I'm talking about one of the other dudes). I will say, however that Hall does meet her description of "Leopoldo's" having hairy arms as well as hair showing on his upper chest above his shirt's collar line. Now, regarding "Angel" I believe she described him as having a face that looked sunburned or seriously weathered or something like that about his complexion (but not acne). Is there any indication that this part of the description fits Larry Howard? (It reminds me more of Hargraves, but then again, maybe it was just a temporary sunburn thing.) And while we're at it, does anyone know about how tall Larry Howard was and how much he weighed at the time?

I do, however, want to fervently believe that Hall and Howard and Oswald visited the Odio sisters in late September, 1963. Therfore, and assuming that they did, I suppose I'll now have to do some "research" to determine if there's any "evidence" that Hall and/or Howard actually did, as they later claimed, take a bus from Dallas to Miami after the Odio meeting, or whether it's possible that one or both of them accompanied (or followed) LHO at least part way to Mexico City. I should know the answer to this already, but my memory is even worse now than it used to be. Yes, I'm aware that CIA agent Gaudet's Mexican tourist visa number was only one removed from Oswald's and that the mysterious Osborne/Bowen rode on the same bus as Oswald did to M.C. As far as I know, the FBI never did determine how LHO travelled from New Orleans to Houston while on his way to Mexico City. I'm thinking maybe H and H left the trailer in Dallas and then gave LHO a ride to Houston, or perhaps even points farther south. Edit: If they did take a bus to Miami, what did they do with the car? Leave it with the trailer?

Thanks,

--Tommy

P.S. I took the liberty of correcting one of your sentences so that it now reads, "Also, Larry Howard was a Mexican-American -- He grew up in Los Angeles."

P.P.S. Is it a fair paraphrasing of the last part of your post to say that you find highly suspicious the fact that Hall so evidently (since he later retracted it under serious death threats/actions directed towards him by fellow Interpen members) "blew it" by substituting the name of Oswald-look-alike William Seymour for LHO (because he hadn't had enough time to make up an equally-plausible story that wouldn't implicate a fellow Interpen member, Seymour, in the assassination of JFK)? If so, I would tend to agree with you. In fact, it reminds me of GPH's telling Weberman, in so many words, "Heck, Hall couldn't even talk straight."

Thanks for the feedback, Tommy.

Regarding the relative height of people, I believe that taller people have an easier time estimating the height of other people. I think Sylvia Odio might have meant that Hall was tall for a Cuban. Yet Harry Dean also thought that Hall was at least 6 feet tall; yet again, Harry Dean isn't particularly tall.

Please recollect and share your source that says Hall was 5'10", Tommy. Also, height can be socially relative. For example, one FORUM member is certain that the "great" Frank Sturgis was "much taller" than 6 feet, yet photos of Sturgis next to other men suggest he was shorter than 6 feet.

Now, when Sylvia said that "Leopoldo" was "thin," this could mean many things. Descriptions of Loran Hall suggest that he was very muscular with hefty arms and shoulders and a trim waist with six-pack abs. If this was the case, then a Latina might consider that to be "thin," meaning, "thin around the waist." In America, however, we tend to say a person is "thin" when that person is thin from head to toe.

I'm not aware of a photo showing Hall lecturing Howard in the presence of Seymour. Please recollect and share that source if you can.

As for Sylvia repeating that "Leopoldo" had an unusual forehead or hairline, we should examine a few more photographs. Here are some photographs of Loran Hall's face that just might be new to you. They are from a 1975 TATTLER special report that concentrates on Loran Hall, ex-General Walker, Interpen and Harry Dean:

http://www.pet880.co...ren_Hall_02.JPG

http://www.pet880.co...ren_Hall_06.JPG

Both of those photos show Loran Hall with a "beard."

Now, regarding "Angel" and Sylvia Odio's description of his face that looked seriously weathered, this is typically a difference between a swarthy Mexican complexion and a more Spanish-influenced Cuban complexion. I believe it does fit Larry Howard. Here are three pictures of Larry Howard from that same 1975 TATTLER article:

http://www.pet880.co...ren_Hall_07.JPG

http://www.pet880.co...ren_Hall_09.JPG

http://www.pet880.co...ren_Hall_11.JPG

I think you can see why both Sylvia and Annie Odio described the "Angel" character as "probably a Mexican". They were mostly correct, since Larry Howard was a half-breed with clear Mexican features, as his photographs show.

As for Oswald's Mexico trip, the disinformation that surrounds it was blessed by those who would keep Lee Harvey Oswald a mystery to the American people. I think Harry Dean's information clarifies and simplifies the entire situation. Coupled with clues from Dick Russell, I think the contours of the trip are pretty much explained. Hall and Howard were to ensure that Oswald had a meeting with Guy Gabaldon in Mexico. Thus they would drive him all the way there. Somebody else was on that bus, and Gaudet's story was deliberately sketchy.

Also, thanks for correcting my typo about Larry Howard (not Hall).

Also, yes, your synopsis of my opinion is correct.

Also, I believe that Loran Hall could talk straight when he wanted to, but he was terrified of the consequences of the truth on a daily basis. That National Enquirer article that I shared yesterday explains why. His attitude grew even worse over time.

Finally -- to read most of that TATTLER issue, just change the final digit of that URL above to a figure between "01" to "13".

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited October 26, 2012 by Paul Trejo