Leopoldo and Angel

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

We have established fairly well that Lee Harvey Oswald gave right-wing speeches in Dallas. We have the story first from Mrs. Connell (via Sarita, not Sylvia Odio), and secondly from Loran Hall (via Nico Crespi).

We also have the story that the New Orleans Cuban rightists warned the Dallas Cuban rightists to avoid Lee Harvey Oswald, because he was a "double agent." Again we have that story first from Mrs. Connell (via Sarita, not Sylvia Odio), and secondly again from Loran Hall (via Nico Crespi, on the presumption that Nico Crespi, when he indicated he was going to hear Oswald speak in Dallas, said he went to "heckle" Oswald -- presumably because Oswald was a "double agent." [with thanks to Tommy Graves for that speculation]).

[...]

Finally, didn't Gerry Patrick Hemming once say that he personally told Lee Harvey Oswald to bring his rifle to the Texas School Book depository on the morning of 22 November 1963, because he wanted to buy it for a high price? Wasn't that confession made on this very FORUM? Does anybody have a link to that thread? (emphasis added by T. Graves)

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

Excellent post.

Regarding Nico Crespi and the "Sylvia Odio Incident", Gerry Patrick Hemming told A.J. Weberman that Hall had been trying to find Naico [sic] Crespi, about whom Hemming says several interesting and possibly identifying things (see link below). Hemming also said that Larry Howard had talked with "Kiki Ferrer," presumably at Silvia Odio's apartment complex on Magellan Circle in Dallas in late September 1963, to try to find out where Crespi was. Hemming said that Crespi's "mailing address" was in the apartment complex that Silvia lived in, and that Crespi had already moved to Fort Worth. Hemming also said that both Naico [sic] Crespi and "Kiki Ferrer" were suspected of being Castro agents, and that neither Hall nor Howard knew that Hemming knew Crespi. Hemming suggested that "Kiki" was expected by Hall and/or Howard to know where Crespi was because Castro-agent "Kiki" had been keeping an eye on Castro-agent Crespi!!!

FWIW, "Kiki Ferrer" was possibly Rudolpho Masferrer, brother of Rolando "El Tigre" Masferrer. In 1968, Hall told Garrison investigator Stephen Jaffe that he knew Cuban exile "Kiki Ferrer" well, that "Kiki" lived in Miami, and "Kiki" was very anti-Castro, but not as actively anti-Castro as his brother, "Rolando."

http://ajweberman.co...3-MISC INFO.pdf (press "control, F" and type "Naico" in the search box.) (Please also see my thread on this forum titled "Larry Howard's Address Book.")

Now, regarding Hemming's alleged offer to buy LHO's rifle, go to this other Weberman "nodule" and type "Hemming" in the "control,F" search box):

http://ajweberman.co... BIG EVENT.html

Keep up the good work!

--Tommy

Edited April 17, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

...

Regarding Nico Crespi, Gerry Patrick Hemming told A.J. Weberman that Hall was trying to find Naico [sic] Crespi (about whom Hemming says several interesting and possibly identifying things; see link below),and Larry Howard talked with "Kiki Ferrer," presumably at Silvia Odio's apartment complex on Magellan Circle in Dallas in late September 1963, to try to find out where Crespi was.

Hemming said that Crespi's "mailing address" was in the apartment complex that Silvia lived in, and that Crespi had already moved to Fort Worth. Hemming also said that both Naico [sic] Crespi and "Kiki Ferrer" were suspected of being Castro agents, and that neither Hall nor Howard knew that Hemming knew Crespi. Hemming suggested that "Kiki" was expected by Hall and Howard to know where Crespi was because Castro-agent"Kiki" had been keeping an eye on Castro-agent Crespi!!!

FWIW, "Kiki Ferrer" was possibly Rudolpho Masferrer, brother of Rolando "El Tigre" Masferrer. In 1968, Hall told Garrison investigator Stephen Jaffe that he knew Cuban exile "Kiki Ferrer" well, that "Kiki" lived in Miami, and "Kiki" was very anti-Castro, but not as actively anti-Castro as his brother, "Rolando."

http://ajweberman.co...3-MISC INFO.pdf (press "control, F" and type "Naico" in the search box.) (Please also see my thread on this forum titled "Larry Howard's Address Book.")

Now, regarding Hemming's alleged offer to buy LHO's rifle, go to this other Weberman "nodule" and type "Hemming" in the "control,F" search box):

http://ajweberman.co... BIG EVENT.html

Keep up the good work!

--Tommy

Tommy, thanks for the feedback. You might agree with me that Gerry Patrick Hemming's interviews can be difficult to follow as he sometimes begins a "free association" -- unable to stick to a single point because there are so many connections and associations that pique his memory in every new sentence. He often rambles and becomes impatient with interviewers who try to force him to stay on point.

As for Nico Crespi, we seem to know very little about him, but your theory about him in your thread appears sound, namely, he was none other than Antonio Crespi Larralde, a captain in Castro's army who moved to the USA to spy on the Cuban Exiles here. This matches with Hemming's suspicion that Nico Crespi was a Castro spy. Also, he evidently lived in the same apartment complex as Sylvia Odio.

That's a match, so I'm willing to go with that for now.

It's interesting that Sylvia Odio herself was very much in the thick of the action between the Cuban Exile counter-revolutionaries and the Cuban Reds. From a wealthy family, she had to join countless Cubans in a voyage to the USA to escape the madness of a Communist takeover of Cuba. In the process her family was badly hurt, her father was imprisoned by Castro, and her husband divorced her, leaving her to raise several children by herself.

It wasn't just this stress -- but in the USA she was: (1) continually pulled upon by the Cuban Exiles trying to organize a rebellion to get Cuba back from the Communists; and (2) continually spied upon by Castro's people; and (3) being blackmailed by Castro himself because he could do anything he wanted to Sylvia's father.

No wonder she started having fainting spells. That's a tremendous amount of stress for any normal person. But the Warren Commission used the fact that she saw a psychiatrist to discount her testimony -- perhaps the most important testimony in all their volumes, that could have led to Oswald's ground-crew accomplices. So the USA also betrayed Sylvia Odio. She simply ran out of luck when Cuba fell to the Communists.

My main point is that Nico Crespi lived down the way from Sylvia Odio. Insofar as he was really a spy for Castro, then it seems reasonable that one of his duties would be to keep an eye on Sylvia Odio -- to spy on her.

Furthermore, Nico Crespi was a "double agent", that is, to spy on right-wingers in the USA, like Loran Hall, Larry Howard (Leopoldo and Angel) and Gerry Patrick Hemming, he had to pretend to be one of them.

The impression I get from Hemming's interviews with Weberman is that Hemming suspected Nico Crespi of being a Castro spy, but he did not tell Loran Hall or Larry Howard of this -- because they did not even know that Hemming knew about Nico Crespi.

Loran Hall further testified that Nico Crespi's associate, Kiki Ferrer was the one who told him about Sylvia Odio. Yet Sylvia Odio said that she never heard of Kiki Ferrer, although she knew that the Masferrer family lived in her neighborhood. So, again, we appear to have another match.

Why would Crespi/Ferrer tell Leonardo/Angel to visit Sylvia Odio? There were several plausible reasons based on our premises so far: (i) to keep the pressure on Sylvia Odio so that she knew she was being watched; (ii) to get further information about Sylvia Odio from right-wingers naive enough to give them (Crespi/Ferrer) information; (iii) to convince Leonardo/Angel that they were Cuban Exile counter-revolutionaries on their side; and (iv) to become friends with Leonardo/Angel to get more information about right-wing plans to attack Castro's Cuba. There are probably more reasons.

So, this seems to pan out so far.

Now, what does all this have to do with the JFK assassination and Lee Harvey Oswald directly? Plenty. The personal link who puts it all together is Gerry Patrick Hemming. He knew every single one of these players, evidently. Hemming also knew ex-General Edwin Walker.

When Hemming was asked by Weberman point blank, "who shot at Walker" (on 10 April 1963) Hemming replied flippantly, "One of the faggots who lived with him." It is now fairly well-known that ex-General Edwin Walker (who never married) was a homosexual before he went into the Army in the 1930's until he left in the 1960's. In those days a homosexual had to live in the closet in civilian society, but in the Army it was worse - it was a court-martial offense. Yet Walker rose to the level of two-star General; therefore, ex-General Edwin Walker (the only US General to resign in the 20th century) was accustomed to living a secret life -- accustomed to lying for a living.

Yet Hemming's flippant remark (as well as his notorious fund-raising letter to Walker) shows that Hemming did not know as much about ex-General Walker as he believed. Although the police also arrested and interviewed one of the young gay or bisexual men who lived with ex-General Walker from December, 1962 to February 1963, namely, William MacEwan Duff, a long investigation only proved that this man was innocent of the charge of shooting at Walker. (Walker told the Warren Commission that Duff was welcome back in his home anytime.) Hemming evidently did not follow the case very closely. Also, both Walker and his live-in publisher, Robert Allen Surrey, were convinced that Walker had two shooters on 10 April 1963.

Actually, Hemming seems to know Lee Harvey Oswald better than he knew ex-General Walker. I appreciate that you found (in Weberman, not in this FORUM) the interview from Gerry Patrick Hemming about Lee Harvey Oswald, the TSBD Building, and Oswald's Manlicher-Carcano rifle. It's in NODULE 23 by Weberman, and I'll just quote from that sectoin here:

---------------------- Begin Excerpt from Nodule 23 by Weberman --------------------------

OSWALD brought his disassembled Mannlicher-Carcano with him to the Texas School Book Depository on the morning of November 22, 1963, because he had been instructed to do so. HEMMING had fired the weapon on the weekend before the assassination, and told Oswald that he liked it a lot and would purchase it for him on next Friday.

HEMMING: "Just offer him double the value of his gun. It wouldn't make anyone nervous. A crime like this hadn't occurred since McKinley, it wouldn't have been uppermost in his mind about the President, or any other kind of bullxxxx."

OSWALD entered the Texas School Book Depository carrying the package, and went up to the sixth floor. He hid the package between some book cartons. HEMMING had assured OSWALD it was to be picked up. OSWALD was told to go to the lunchroom between 12:15 p.m. and 12:45 p.m. so he would not see the person who picked up the rifle.

------------------------- End Excerpt from Nodule 23 by Weberman ---------------------

The more I think about it, the more obvious it seems to me that Gerry Patrick Hemming had just confessed to Weberman that he himself was part of the ground-crew that killed JFK. The ground-crew was extremely well organized, and probably composed of 100 people. Here was the role of Hemming: to instruct Oswald to bring his gun to the TSBD Building and hide it and walk away.

Evidently, Oswald did that -- and this is what convicted him of the JFK assassination. Now here is Hemming admitting that he was the very person who told Oswald to bring his rifle to work that day.

Even if Hemming did nothing else in the JFK assassination, he was part of the ground-crew. And if he was, then the likelihood of Leonardo and Angel (i.e. Hall and Howard) being part of the ground-crew as well, just increased. And if so, then the claims of Harry Dean, that he personally saw Hall and Howard accept money in the presence of ex-General Edwin Walker, for the purpose of framing Lee Harvey Oswald, has just increased as well.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 17, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Paul,

Excellent post, again!

Only one small thing at this point: the word "Filibuster" appears as a surname twice in your post, the first one reads "Antonio Crespi Filibuster" (it should be Antonio Crespi Larralde), and the second one is "Freddy Filibuster" (friend of Gen. Walker's?). It's almost as if someone is playing tricks on you...

Keep up the good work,

--Tommy

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

Excellent post, again!

Only one small thing at this point: the word "Filibuster" appears as a surname twice in your post, the first one reads "Antonio Crespi Filibuster" (it should be Antonio Crespi Larralde), and the second one is "Freddy Filibuster" (friend of Gen. Walker's?). It's almost as if someone is playing tricks on you...

Keep up the good work,

--Tommy

Thanks, Tommy. Actually, I couldn't remember the names of Antonio Crespi Larralde or WIlliam McEwan Duff, so I myself entered in the stub of 'Filibuster' until I could quickly look up the correct names. I corrected the text within minutes, and it was late at night, and I thought nobody was online. Yet you evidently read my post while I was in the middle of editing it. As you can see, it is currently correct.

Apparently you agreed with my logic so far. What this history suggests to me is that Leopoldo (Loran Hall), Angel (Larry Howard), Sylvia Odio, Lee Harvey Oswald, Nico Crespi, Niki Ferrer, Gerry Patrick Hemming and ex-General Edwin Walker -- and let us not forget Harry Dean -- were all involved at some level in the assassination of JFK.

As for Harry Dean, his role was to pretend to support the plot; he had to avoid being caught spying for the FBI. Harry Dean says that he told the FBI this same account in September, 1963, and they never responded, and promptly cut him off. Being a double-agent is apparently a thankless role.

There has been some skepticism about Harry Dean's claims, yet I myself find them entirely credible. By the way, Harry Dean's claims go beyond that single meeting. Harry claims that he met Loran Hall and Larry Howard in late 1962 in connection with anti-Castro propaganda, and that after meeting them Harry was invited to become a member of the Southern California Minutemen. He joined, and this increased his value in the eyes of the most radical members of the JBS. This plausibly explains why he was invited to this top-secret meeting led by Congressman John Rousselot and ex-General Edwin Walker.

My question to you, Tommy, is this: what is your current perception of the claims of Harry Dean?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 18, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Paul,

Excellent post, again!

Only one small thing at this point: the word "Filibuster" appears as a surname twice in your post, the first one reads "Antonio Crespi Filibuster" (it should be Antonio Crespi Larralde), and the second one is "Freddy Filibuster" (friend of Gen. Walker's?). It's almost as if someone is playing tricks on you...

Keep up the good work,

--Tommy

Thanks, Tommy. Actually, I couldn't remember the names of Antonio Crespi Larralde or WIlliam McEwan Duff, so I myself entered in the stub of 'Filibuster' until I could quickly look up the correct names. I corrected the text within minutes, and it was late at night, and I thought nobody was online. Yet you evidently read my post while I was in the middle of editing it. As you can see, it is currently correct.

Apparently you agreed with my logic so far. What this history suggests to me is that Leopoldo (Loran Hall), Angel (Larry Howard), Sylvia Odio, Lee Harvey Oswald, Nico Crespi, Niki Ferrer, Gerry Patrick Hemming and ex-General Edwin Walker -- and let us not forget Harry Dean -- were all involved at some level in the assassination of JFK.

As for Harry Dean, his role was to pretend to support the plot; he had to avoid being caught spying for the FBI. Harry Dean says that he told the FBI this same account in September, 1963, and they never responded, and promptly cut him off. Being a double-agent is apparently a thankless role.

There has been some skepticism about Harry Dean's claims, yet I myself find them entirely credible. By the way, Harry Dean's claims go beyond that single meeting. Harry claims that he met Loran Hall and Larry Howard in late 1962 in connection with anti-Castro propaganda, and that after meeting them Harry was invited to become a member of the Southern California Minutemen. He joined, and this increased his value in the eyes of the most radical members of the JBS. This plausibly explains why he was invited to this top-secret meeting led by Congressman John Rousselot and ex-General Edwin Walker.

My question to you, Tommy, is this: what is your current perception of the claims of Harry Dean?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

I am intrigued by what Harry Dean has to say and I find his account to be plausible.

I do find myself trying to reconcile Dean's account with that of Richard Case Nagell, and specifically with Nagell's statement that Oswald was involved, "up to his ears," in the assassination.

--Tommy

P.S. Paul, if you haven't already seen them, please check out my two recent threads, Loran Hall's Address Book and Kiki Ferrer.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

I am intrigued by what Harry Dean has to say and I find his account to be plausible.

However, I do find myself trying to reconcile Dean's account with that of Richard Case Nagell, and specifically with Nagell's statement that Oswald was involved, "up to his ears," in the assassination.

...

--Tommy

Tommy, I'd like to focus for a while on your effort to reconcile Harry Dean's account with the account by Richard Case Nagell (presumably as told to Dick Russell in his book, The Man Who Knew Too Much (2003).

You are intrigued by Nagell's statement that Oswald was involved, "up to his ears," in the JFK assassination. It is very difficult to say that this statement is false or true, because the statement is very vague. "Involved up to his ears" uses a metaphor in place of details.

I agree that Oswald was involved in the JFK assassination. But what does it mean -- up to his ears? Richard Case Nagell, a "double agent," had become accustomed to speaking in vague terms.

It is precisely because Nagell's affirmation is so vague that I find it very easy to reconcile Nagell's statement with Harry Dean's account. Allow me to briefly review Harry Dean's account along with some generally accepted historical facts to illustrate what I mean:

1. As the 1960's opened, the right-wing in the USA believed that the Civil Rights movement was Communist, and that this included Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren's decision on "Brown v. the Board of Education" in 1957, which led to Eisenhower's use of federal troops to enroll six black children into the high school at Little Rock Arkansas in 1959. This led to the founding of the JBS and its first and most enduring bumper sticker and billboard: "Impeach Earl Warren"

2. In 1960 the JBS broadcast that the UN was a Communist Front, and that every US President since FDR had been a secret Communist.

3. Three days before ex-General Walker staged a race riot of thousands at Ole Miss U. in Oxford, Mississippi on 10 September 1962, the Cuban Missile Crisis was getting all the US headlines. When Walker sent his hostile, "open letter" to JFK, the content of that letter was more about Cuba than about racial segregation in Mississippi. http://www.pet880.co...Open_Letter.JPG

4. As 1962 came to a close, the right-wing had gone further underground in response to their humiliating loss at Ole Miss, as black student James Meredith attended classes there every day. Harry Dean had already met Loran Hall and Larry Howard, and possibly through them Harry was invited to join the Minutemen (MM) organization.

5. According to Harry, the MM organization was an armed citizen militia, and their main activity was to attend military training camps with their own weapons. They were fiercely anti-Communist, but more importantly for this thread, they were fiercely anti-JFK.

6. According to Harry, most MM members were also members of the John Birch Society (JBS) or at least fellow-travelers. They bought the idea of Joe McCarthy that there were secret Communists inside the US Government, and they were happy that Robert Welch and the JBS took over the leadership of this viewpoint after Joe McCarthy died. Most MM members believed that JFK was a communist.

7. The Cuban Missile Crisis sent matters whirling. Just as people in my neighorhood began building bomb-shelters in their back yards, the MM members increased their paramilitary drills to resist an attack of Communists on US shores.

8. According to Harry Dean, MM members continually talked about killing Castro, and also about killing JFK (because the Bay of Pigs fiasco "proved" to many of them that JFK was a Communist). In other words, a secret Communist was a traitor, and every good patriot wishes to execute every traitor.

9. As I understand his account, Harry Dean first heard of Lee Harvey Oswald on or about mid-September 1963 at a JBS meeting with ex-General Walker, Congressman John Rousselot, WW2 hero Guy Gabaldon, Loran Hall and Larry Howard. At that meeting ex-General Walker announced that their plot had finally identified the perfect patsy -- a Communist named Lee Harvey Oswald.

10. Harry thought that was poetic justice, and the whole group at that meeting had a good laugh about it. He then witnessed as Guy Gabaldon accepted a large cache of cash to facilitate his role in the plot.

That, according to Harry, was the last time he heard the name of Lee Harvey Oswald until the afternoon of 22 November 1963, when he heard the name on TV.

Now -- these facts stand along with other facts, according to my theory, as follows:

A: On 10 April 1963, the right-wing speaker and "double agent" Lee Harvey Oswald joined one other shooter to try to assassinate ex-General Edwin Walker at his home in Dallas, Texas.

B: Oswald had been influenced in this decision by the psychological techniques of Volkmar Schmidt, a friend of George De Mohrenshildt, at a party in which Michael Paine and his wife, Ruth Paine, also attended and observed. (Schmidt, as he later confessed and as De Mohrenshildt later told the HSCA, had attempted to transfer Oswald's bitterness at JFK over the Bay of Pigs in 1961 onto ex-General Edwin Walker for his race riot at Ole Miss in 1962.)

C: Four days after the shooting, George De Mohrenshildt told his friends, Mr. and Mrs. Igor Voshinin, that he strongly suspected Oswald as "the shooter" and Mrs. Voshinin immediately told the FBI. The FBI (as I surmise) immediately told ex-General Edwin Walker. (Oswald had not been picked up for questioning, to the best of my knowledge, although Walker always believed that Oswald had been picked up).

D: Ex-General Walker chose to exact paramilitary justice.

E. Walker was sure that Oswald had been picked up for questioning, but was then set free by RFK himself, so that Oswald could try to kill Walker again (in revenge for the Ole Miss riots and for being quickly acquitted by a Mississippi Grand Jury). But ex-General Walker was also a member of the MM, and so was his associate in New Orleans, Guy Banister.

F: Guy Banister had an associate, David Ferrie, who had known Lee Harvey Oswald since his youth. In my theory, Ferrie offered Oswald a lucrative mercenary job if he would immediately move to New Orleans. Only seven days after the Walker shooting, Lee Harvey Oswald decided to move to New Orleans. Fourteen days after the Walker shooting, Oswald moved in with his aunt Lillian Murret in New Orleans.

G: While in New Orleans, Oswald's main personal associates (which we find in the newspapers, in radio recordings and on TV video tape) were Cuban Exiles by the names of Carlos Bringuier and Ed Butler.

H: Carlos Bringuier and especially Ed Butler were propaganda specialists for the rightist Cuban Exile cause. They were very friendly with the MM and they shared training camp expenses with them.

I: During August, 1963, Oswald was patsified -- he was sheep-dipped -- he was made to appear in the newspaper, raido and TV to be an officer of the FPCC. Many people to this very day believe this propaganda skillfully created by Ed Butler.

J: Richard Case Nagell at this point learned of this plot -- Oswald was going to try to use his newspaper clippings to convince the Consulates in Mexico that he was indeed an officer in the FPCC (and FPCC officers always got passage into Cuba at a moment's notice). Once in Cuba, Oswald had orders to kill Castro. Nagell warned Oswald that if he succeeded in getting passage to Cuba, that he would personally kill Oswald.

K: When the sheep-dip was over, Oswald was joined by Loran Hall and Larry Howard for a trip to Mexico to get passage to Cuba to kill Castro. If he failed that mission, then they were to take Oswald to meet Guy Gabaldon, who was going to pose as a CIA officer, and offer Oswald a secret "double agent" project.

L: On their way to Mexico, they decided to stop in Dallas to meet Sylvia Odio -- perhaps for contacts in hopes of identifying alternative passage to Cuba, in case Oswald's current strategy failed. Sylvia Odio was no help to them. They went to Mexico.

M: Oswald's main mission failed -- he was unable to use his newspaper clippings to convince the Consulates that he was indeed an officer in the FPCC.

N. We may presume that Oswald met Guy Gabaldon, accepted some money and then traveled back to Dallas.

The rest, as they say, is history. But my point is, Tommy, that if we correlate the data of Harry Dean with my hypothesis, there is no contradiction, and actually there is an obvious interleaving of the bullet points.

In other words, the composite story reconciles Harry Dean and Richard Case Nagell smoothly.

What do you think?

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited November 19, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

K: When the sheep-dip was over, Oswald was joined by Loran Hall and Larry Howard for a trip to Mexico to get passage to Cuba to kill Castro. If he failed that mission, then they were to take Oswald to meet Guy Gabaldon, who was going to pose as a CIA officer, and offer Oswald a secret "double agent" project.

L: On their way to Mexico, they decided to stop in Dallas to meet Sylvia Odio -- perhaps for contacts in hopes of identifying alternative passage to Cuba, in case Oswald's current strategy failed. Sylvia Odio was no help to them. They went to Mexico.

Admittedly the sentences above are among the weaker parts of my theory.

Harry Dean reported that he attended a meeting in which WW2 hero Guy Gabaldon was given a briefcase full of money by high-ranking leaders of the JBS, including ex-General Edwin Walker, to guide Loran Hall and Lawrence Howard in a plot to keep Lee Harvey Oswald in a position where he could be easily manipulated. That is empirical evidence for Harry -- he was there. However, Harry admits that he can only surmise that Loran Hall and Larry Howard were "Leopoldo" and "Angel".

There were so many plots to kill JFK -- and so many rich rightists throwing money at all these plots -- that it is difficult to know where one ends and the other begins.

It remains possible that the Guy Gabaldon plot failed -- but other people in other plots were grafted onto the original Walker plot. It is entirely possible that Sylvia Odio's two visitors, "Leonardo" and "Angel" were two other Latinos than Loran Hall and Larry Howard, and this would not necessarily contradict Harry Dean's statement at all -- after all, Harry didn't claim to be at Sylvio Odio's doorstep on Wednesday 24 September 1963.

That is, any two rightist Latinos could have replaced Loran Hall and Larry Howard at Sylvia Odio's doorstep, as far as I can tell, and then driven Oswald to Mexico. The ground-crew probably consisted of a hundred people - not just a dozen. None of this contradicts Harry Dean's account.

I say this because: (1) Sylvia Odio did not (or would not) identify photographs of Loran Hall and Larry Howard as "Leopoldo" and "Angel"; and (2) Claudia Furiati said that two Cuban Exiles, the Sampol brothers, were probably Sylvia's visitors that day.

I don't know the actual facts -- but I just want to say that whoever "Leopoldo" and "Angel" turn out to be, Harry Dean's account still stands, as it stands in a class by itself.

I will add that two Warren Commission witnesses said that they saw two men in the 6th floor of the TSBD building at noon on 22 November 1963, where one was lighter-skinned and the other was darker-skinned. That description matches descriptions for "Leonoardo" and "Angel," as well.

Later, as many of us know, DPD cop Roger Craig saw a dark-skinned Latino leave the TSBD building after the shooting, and then in a Green Rambler, saw the same dark-skinned man (along with a lighter-skinned man) pick up Lee Harvey Oswald minutes later. For his troubles, Roger Craig was shot, bombed and died a violent death.

Where these two men "Leopoldo" and "Angel"? If so, were they Hall and Howard, or the Sampol brothers? We don't know yet -- and still Harry Dean's account retains the ring of truth.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited November 21, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

K: When the sheep-dip was over, Oswald was joined by Loran Hall and Larry Howard for a trip to Mexico to get passage to Cuba to kill Castro. If he failed that mission, then they were to take Oswald to meet Guy Gabaldon, who was going to pose as a CIA officer, and offer Oswald a secret "double agent" project.

L: On their way to Mexico, they decided to stop in Dallas to meet Sylvia Odio -- perhaps for contacts in hopes of identifying alternative passage to Cuba, in case Oswald's current strategy failed. Sylvia Odio was no help to them. They went to Mexico.

Admittedly the sentences above are among the weaker parts of my theory.

Harry Dean reported that he attended a meeting in which WW2 hero Guy Gabaldon was given a briefcase full of money by high-ranking leaders of the JBS, including ex-General Edwin Walker, to guide Loran Hall and Lawrence Howard in a plot to keep Lee Harvey Oswald in a position where he could be easily manipulated. That is empirical evidence for Harry -- he was there. However, Harry admits that he can only surmise that Loran Hall and Larry Howard were "Leopoldo" and "Angel".

There were so many plots to kill JFK -- and so many rich rightists throwing money at all these plots -- that it is difficult to know where one ends and the other begins.

It remains possible that the Guy Gabaldon plot failed -- but other people in other plots were grafted onto the original Walker plot. It is entirely possible that Sylvia Odio's two visitors, "Leonardo" and "Angel" were two other Latinos than Loran Hall and Larry Howard, and this would not necessarily contradict Harry Dean's statement at all -- after all, Harry didn't claim to be at Sylvio Odio's doorstep on Wednesday 24 September 1963.

That is, any two rightist Latinos could have replaced Loran Hall and Larry Howard at Sylvia Odio's doorstep, as far as I can tell, and then driven Oswald to Mexico. The ground-crew probably consisted of a hundred people - not just a dozen. None of this contradicts Harry Dean's account.

I say this because: (1) Sylvia Odio did not (or would not) identify photographs of Loran Hall and Larry Howard as "Leopoldo" and "Angel"; and (2) Claudia Furiarti said that two Cuban Exiles, the Sampol brothers, were probably Sylvia's visitors that day.

I don't know the actual facts -- but I just want to say that whoever "Leopoldo" and "Angel" turn out to be, Harry Dean's account still stands, as it stands in a class by itself.

I will add that two Warren Commission witnesses said that they saw two men in the 6th floor of the TSBD building at noon on 22 November 1963, where one was lighter-skinned and the other was darker-skinned. That description matches descriptions for "Leonoardo" and "Angel," as well.

Later, as many of us know, DPD cop Roger Craig saw a dark-skinned Latino leave the TSBD building after the shooting, and then in a Green Rambler, saw the same dark-skinned man (along with a lighter-skinned man) pick up Lee Harvey Oswald minutes later. For his troubles, Roger Craig was shot, bombed and died a violent death.

Where these two men "Leopoldo" and "Angel"? If so, were they Hall and Howard, or the Sampol brothers? We don't know yet -- and still Harry Dean's account retains the ring of truth.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

If Hall was not the "Leopoldo" at Silvia Odio's apartment, I think Bernardo De Torres is a good candidate because he was a tall, thin Cuban with a strangely-receding hairline.

I might be wrong, but I don't think Roger Craig said he saw a dark-complected man actually leaving the TSBD. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks,

--Tommy

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

If Hall was not the "Leopoldo" at Silvia Odio's apartment, I think Bernardo De Torres is a good candidate because he was a tall, thin Cuban with a strangely-receding hairline.

I might be wrong, but I don't think Roger Craig said he saw a dark-complected man actually leaving the TSBD. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks,

--Tommy

Tommy, I can't comment on Bernardo De Torres because I'm not aware of that thread, yet.

As for Roger Craig, I used a secondary source for Craig's account -- and the secondary sources are full of variations, so I should have known better.

Let's hear it from Craig's own words: It can be found on http://www.ratical.o.../JFK/WTKaP.html and here's an applicable paragraph:

"I had several meetings with Jim Garrison. He showed me numerous pictures taken in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963. Among them was a picture of a Latin male. I recognized him as being the same man I had seen driving the Rambler station wagon in which I had seen Oswald leave the Book Depository area. I was surprised and I asked Jim who the man was. Jim did not know but he did say this man was arrested in Dealey Plaza immediately after the assassination but was released by Dallas Police because he could not speak English!" (Roger Craig, 1971)

Now, this is different from the story I cited, which claimed that this "dark-skinned" man, who was driving the Rambler, was also seen by Craig exiting the front door, was stopped by the DPD who then let him go because he claimed he could not speak English. So, Roger Craig's story was modified by that writer -- and by many other writers.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 22, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

If Hall was not the "Leopoldo" at Silvia Odio's apartment, I think Bernardo De Torres is a good candidate because he was a tall, thin Cuban with a strangely-receding hairline.

...

Thanks,

--Tommy

Tommy, let's discuss a bit more about the possibility that Loran Hall was not Sylvia Odio's visitor on Wednesday 24 September 1963.

We have one major reason to doubt Hall as the visitor, namely, that Sylvia Odio could not (or would not) identify Hall from photographs. That bothers me -- but I accept it conditionally because: (1) the FBI quickly picked up Loran Hall for questioning after hearing Sylvia's story; and (2) Loran Hall at first admitted that he and Larry Howard did actually visit Sylvia Odio on or about that date.

IMHO, those two facts outweigh the fact that Sylvia Odio couldn't identify Hall or Howard from photographs. First, it is very plausible that Sylvia Odio was terrified by these two men, whom she called, "greasy," and in fact they could be ferociously violent when the situation called for it. (I can easily imagine either man, or both, calling Sylvia Odio at night -- they did have her number -- and making threats to protect themselves from identification.)

If that was the case, then naturally Sylvia Odio would hesitate to name them unless she received explicit and repeated assurances from the WC that she would be protected -- she got no such assurance.

Yet that is not hard proof -- that is only a surmise. Furthermore, there is another bit of evidence on the side of Sylvia Odio's testimony, namely, Claudia Furiati (ZR-Rifle, 1994), citing Fabian Escalante, a former Cuban General for Castro who was tracking the right-wing in Texas (through the likes of Nico Crespi, and possibly Kiki Ferrer).

Furiati wrote that the Sampol brothers fit Odio's physical description more precisely, and furthermore, their "war names" actually were "Leopoldo" and "Angel". Furiati offered very little further evidence, except to say that the Sampol brothers (like Hall and Howard) participated in many guerrilla raids on Casto's Cuba. The Sampol brothers, she wrote, were also connected with Santos Trafficante, and smuggled heroin for him.

So, that would be two bits of evidence against Hall and Howard being "Leopoldo" and "Angel".

But we already had two bits of evidence to say that Hall and Howard were "Leopoldo" and "Angel". Even score. Can we tip the balance one way or the other? I think we can.

In my theory, ex-General Edwin Walker plays a more central role in the JFK-assassination than any theory I've ever read. (The closest anybody came to my theory was Dick Russell in his 2003, TMWKTM, and he backed away after two interviews of Walker...which I believe were tepid interviews.)

Yet the evidence mounts that Walker knew about Lee Harvey Oswald throughout the spring, summer and fall of 1963, as he increasingly made deals with Cuban Exiles along with the Minutemen and their paramilitary training camps in New Orleans. Dick Russell reported that H.L. Hunt's butler told him that he overheard H.L. Hunt and ex-General Walker discussing Lee Harvey Oswald sometime before the JFK assassination.

The key to the JFK conspiracy is that it must include Lee Harvey Oswald. There were probably hundreds of plots against JFK. JFK had many powerful enemies in the USA. But the one and only plot that actually succeeded was the one that included Lee Harvey Oswald.

OK - back to Howard and Hall. We find that Howard and Hall are fairly close to the description of the Sampol brothers, but Howard and Hall were also connected with ex-General Walker -- while the Sampol brothers (to the best of my knowledge) weren't.

Further, Claudia Furiati has nothing to say about ex-General Walker -- and that weakens her case in my book. She does not care much about the ground-crew -- she is obsessed with Washington power, i.e. the CIA. Also, she knew that Operation Mongoose was led by Major General Edward Lansdale, but she didn't know that Operation Mongoose was RFK's brainchild, and that RFK tracked Operation Mongoose on an obsessive, almost daily basis, conferring with Lansdale very closely. She should have known that.

Further, Furiati held some odd notion that Lee Harvey Oswald was some important person in US intelligence -- like a 007 figure. Rather, Oswald was always struggling to get a permanent job in US intelligence, and nobody wanted to hire him permanently -- he was just one more expendible contractor (like perhaps most CIA operatives).

Finally, Claudia Furiati is so keen on naming Cuban Exiles as conspirators working for the CIA that she clumsily forced Lee Harvey Oswald into the picture without any clear rhyme or reason (like most researchers who focus on the CIA). Yet there is a truly dramatic human dimension to Oswald's story -- something that is not captured by Norman Mailer or Priscilla McMillan or Don DeLillo; namely, the dimension of a "wannabe double agent."

For Claudia Furiati, Oswald remains an abstract place-holder in her CIA-and-Cuban-Exile litany.

Howard Dean's story offers a more viable portrait -- he offers us a motive for Hall and Howard to be with Oswald, to drive Oswald around, to listen to his story, to pretend they were on his side, and to convince Oswald to be exactly where their bosses wanted Oswald to be.

Also, Hall and Howard were closely related to ex-General Edwin Walker through Gerry Patrick Hemming. Hemming, in turn, confessed to A.J. Weberman that it was he, Hemming, who convinced Oswald to bring his rifle to the TSBD building on the day of the JFK assassination.

So -- Claudia Furiati loses at least one of her points, while Harry Dean picks up at least one more point. The scales tip in favor of Hall and Howard; so, I still accept that Loran Hall and Larry Howard were "Leopoldo" and "Angel".

I'm open to other information, of course -- yet I wish to see how any new proposal is also related closely to Oswald and Walker and Hemming in some material way. Our current suspects are clearly related.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited November 23, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

Who else knew that Lee Harvey Oswald (like ex-General Walker) was making speeches in Dallas to Cuban Exiles?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Well, Nico Crespi, who was evidently an anti-Castro acquaintance or colleague of Loran Hall's, knew that Oswald was making speeches in Dallas, and, suspecting LHO of being a double agent (i.e. pro Castro), was on his way downtown to "heckle" him one day in early October, 1963.

--Tommy

Tommy [...],

[...] Lee Harvey Oswald in this scenario was addressing Cuban Exiles like Sylvia Odio who hated Castro fiercely. Therefore, the speech that Oswald delivered in Dallas to the Cuban Exiles was anti-Castro. If that isn't obvious please tell me why.

[...]

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

Well obviously, if LHO was making speeches to small groups of (presumably) anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Dallas, it only makes sense that he was making anti-Castro speeches to them. Otherwise, those "hot blooded" Cuban exiles would have physically attacked him, IMHO, and we would know all about that from press reports, police reports, FBI reports, etc. So, given the fact that LHO was most likely making anti-Castro speeches, Nico Crespi's telling Hall that he was going downtown to "heckle" LHO suggests to me that Crespi thought that Oswald was only pretending to be anti-Castro. Instead of thinking that LHO was really pro-Castro, maybe he thought that LHO was trying to penetrate some anti-Castro groups for a governmental agency or two...

--Tommy

Oops! I was wrong about "Oswald's" making anti-Castro speeches in Dallas. He was making pro-Castro speeches, according to what Loran Hall said he was told by Niko Crespi:

http://www.maryferre...22&relPageId=40

Sorry to mislead you, Paul!

--Tommy

P.S. Hall also says that Kiki Ferrer lived in Miami, not Dallas.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=60422&relPageId=51

Edited January 28, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Oops! I was wrong about "Oswald's" making anti-Castro speeches in Dallas. He was making pro-Castro speeches, according to what Loran Hall said he was told by Niko Crespi:

http://www.maryferre...22&relPageId=40

Sorry to mislead you, Paul!

--Tommy

P.S. Hall also says that Kiki Ferrer lived in Miami, not Dallas.

http://www.maryferre...22&relPageId=51

Well, not quite, Tommy. In my interpretation, Nico Crespi told Loran Hall that he was concerned that Lee Harvey Oswald was a double-agent. Oswald was going to address Cuban Exiles in Dallas. If Oswald would have addressed a crowd of Cuban Exiles in Dallas with any sort of pro-Castro message, he would have been torn apart.

Rather, in my interpretation, Oswald was going to make an anti-Castro speech to the Cuban Exiles in Dallas, however, Nico Crespi told Loran Hall that he was on his way to hear this speech in order to heckle Lee Harvey Oswald -- that is, Nico Crespi was afraid that as a double-agent, Oswald was going to promote some disinformation to the Cuban Exiles, and so Nico Crespi wanted to expose Oswald as a fraud and as a pro-Castro spy.

That's my interpretation of that article on the Mary Ferrell web site.

Also - yes, Kiki Ferrer lived in Miami, but his relative, Rolando Mas-Ferrer, lived in Dallas not far from Sylvia Odio. That's my understanding.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited January 28, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Oops! I was wrong about "Oswald's" making anti-Castro speeches in Dallas. He was making pro-Castro speeches, according to what Loran Hall said he was told by Niko Crespi:

http://www.maryferre...22&relPageId=40

Sorry to mislead you, Paul!

--Tommy

P.S. Hall also says that Kiki Ferrer lived in Miami, not Dallas.

http://www.maryferre...22&relPageId=51

Well, not quite, Tommy. In my interpretation, Nico Crespi told Loran Hall that he was concerned that Lee Harvey Oswald was a double-agent. Oswald was going to address Cuban Exiles in Dallas. If Oswald would have addressed a crowd of Cuban Exiles in Dallas with any sort of pro-Castro message, he would have been torn apart.

Rather, in my interpretation, Oswald was going to make an anti-Castro speech to the Cuban Exiles in Dallas, however, Nico Crespi told Loran Hall that he was on his way to hear this speech in order to heckle Lee Harvey Oswald -- that is, Nico Crespi was afraid that as a double-agent, Oswald was going to promote some disinformation to the Cuban Exiles, and so Nico Crespi wanted to expose Oswald as a fraud and as a pro-Castro spy.

That's my interpretation of that article on the Mary Ferrell web site.

Also - yes, Kiki Ferrer lived in Miami, but his relative, Rolando Mas-Ferrer, lived in Dallas not far from Sylvia Odio. That's my understanding.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul,

If Oswald was giving anti-Castro speeches in Dallas, I wonder why Hall told the HSCA that Niko Crespi told him that Oswald was going to give a pro-Castro talk that day?

http://www.maryferre...22&relPageId=40

I stumbled upon the above link yesterday while reading John Simkin's post from June 6, 2007 about Loran Hall.

http://educationforu...=0

Please re-freshen my fading memory, Paul. How do we know that Crespi told Hall that he suspected Oswald of being a double agent? Thanks!

--Tommy

Edited April 17, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

So I wonder why Hall told the HSCA that Niko Crespi had told him that Oswald was going to give a pro-Castro talk downtown Dallas that day?

http://www.maryferre...22&relPageId=40

Some facts about the character of Loran Hall should be clarified first. His English grammar was compromised by the 'Spanglish' of his Hispanic neighborhood. Also, Loran Hall (like Gerry P. Hemming) had little patience with interviewers and was notoriously sloppy in his responses to them. Hall seemed to hate providing clarifying detail.

In my interpretation, knowing that the Cuban Exile community of Dallas would have torn Oswald apart if he gave a pro-Castro speech, Loran Hall (like Niko Crespi) believed that Oswald was a double-agent. (I suspect this because "Leopoldo" Hall warned Sylvia Odio that "Leon" Oswald was "kind of loco, and could go either way.")

Because Loran Hall (like Niko Crespi) also suspected Oswald of being a double-agent, he believed that the anti-Castro speech that Oswald was going to deliver to the Cuban Exiles in Dallas, was carefully crafted to sneak in some disinformation to the Cuban Exiles.

In other words, because Oswald was a double-agent, Oswald's ostensibly anti-Castro speech would really become a pro-Castro speech, although only the truly informed (Hall and Crespi) would recognize the fact. Therefore, Niko Crespi went to heckle Oswald to ensure that Oswald's suspected disinformation did not succeed. That's my interpretation.

I stumbled upon the above link yesterday while reading John Simkin's post from June 6, 2007 about Loran Hall.

http://educationforu...=0

Please re-freshen my fading memory, Paul. How do we know that Crespi told Hall that he suspected Oswald of being a double agent? Thanks!

--Tommy

Tommy, my theory about Crespi agreeing with Hall's perception that Oswald was a double-agent (i.e. "he could go either way") hails from my interpretation of the FBI report that is part of the Warren Commission exhibits #3108. Let me post an excerpt:

----------------------- BEGIN EXCERPT OF COMMISSION EXHIBIT No. 3108 ------------------------------------

Mrs. C. L. CONNELL, 6949 Lake Shore Drive, Dallas, Texas, advised she has been a voluntary assistant to the Catholic Cuban Relief Committee of Dallas, Texas, for approximately the past year. She stated one of her Cuban refugee acquaintances, SYLVIA ODIO, 1616-A West Davis Street, Dallas, advised her telephonically on November 28, 1963, that she knew LEE HARVEY OSWALD, and that he had made some talks to small groups of Cuban refugees in Dallas in the past.

ODIO stated she personally considered OSWALD brilliant and clever, and that he had captivated the groups to whom he spoke.

ODIO further reported to CONNELL during this conversation that a call had been made in recent months by a Cuban associate of hers to an unknown source in New Orleans, Louisiana, requesting information on LEE HARVEY OSWALD.

ODIO volunteered that information was in turn received from the New Orleans source to the effect that OSWALD was considered by that source in New Orleans to be a "double agent". The source stated OSWALD was probably trying to infiltrate the Dallas Cuban refugee group, and that he should not be trusted...

--------------------------- END EXCERPT OF COMMISSION EXHIBIT No. 3108 ------------------------------------

Mrs. Connell went on to say that ex-General Edwin Walker was also trying to rouse the feelings of the Cuban refugees, in Dallas, against the Kennedy administration. So, the context is clear -- Odio knew Oswald from anti-Castro speeches at the same rallies in which Edwin Walker spoke.

Now, I also interpret this FBI report to indicate that Niko Crespi was that "somebody" that Sylvia Odio's Cuban friend called in New Orleans requesting further information about LHO.

That "somebody" in New Orleans reported to her friend that LHO was considered a "double agent" and that the Cuban Exile group should not trust him.

There are other implications -- Sylvia Odio knew LHO *before* she saw him at her house on or about Wed25Sep63, and that is precisely why she could make a positive identification of him.

Also, LHO was on the right-wing, making speeches to Cuban Exiles on the right in Dallas. This harks back to his visit to Carlos Bringuier in New Orleans, offering to train Cubans to fight Castro at a local training camp (probably Lake Pontchartrain).

Why do I think that Niko Crespi was that "somebody" in New Orleans? Because, as I recall, Niko Crespi was also a family friend of Sylvia Odio's family in New Orleans. Also, the attitude of that "somebody" was the same as Niko Crespi's attitude, namely, that Oswald was attempting to infiltrate the Cuban Exile community and "could not be trusted." That was exactly the attitude that Niko Crespi communicated to Loran Hall.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited January 28, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[William Kelly]

All of this is complicated by the fact that when Oswald was supposed to give his talk in Dallas, in June 1963, he was in New Orleans.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=60422&relPageId=40