Badgeman photos

[Shanet Clark]

But I am fascinated with the thread,

how Bill super-imposed and then Eugene digitally enhanced that,

and Alan Healy's remark about beginners being unable

to see BADGEMAN....

Beginners can see NIX film's Classic Gunman clearly,

and that seems to be the big problem.

First, we need to stop explaining away evidence.

Secondly, we need to stop creating new false evidence.

Third we need to take a fresh look at all the outward (not occult) aspects of the

available film record....although I agree with Dr. Manik, it is all suspect or corrupted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Shanet,

for the longest time, I had trouble pinpointing Badgeman in a full copy of Moorman.

I guess it had something to do with the low resolution of the full copies that I had picked up on the forums, along with the many shapes & shapes that are seen above the wall.

Now that I am straight(the flash of light is right above the corner of the wall) & looking at him a little more often helps too, it is easy to see why he has always been placed behind the fence & not the wall.

Do you understand why they have put him back there Shanet?

Alan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am debating a few points.

First, the famous MOORMAN Polaroid may or may not be the exact snapshot

she took at 12:30 pm, it may not be the one filmed at 1:00, and simply because

there is video of a snapshot does not mean the snapshot is actually the one in the

video. The Polaroid now shows a blank space where NIX shows a marksman,

in Nix the Marksman wears white against a dark background, in MOORMAN we

see only a field of white grey. Any pro bono lawyer could that Polaroid thrown out as evidence...

I am a novice when it comes to retouching photos, but I can easily

imagine the geniuses who gave us the backyard photo set, also giving us

a misleading Polaroid taken "The Moment of the Fatal Shot"

Finally, I see the Black Dog, I see the Badge (armband) Man,

but I fail to see how these are more compelling than the

CLASSIC GUNMAN tracking the limousine from the spot the blood was found...

[Shanet Clark]

Duncan

Great post, very helpful, welcome aboard, etc...

While I always put forward the unexplained NIX film gunman,

these figures you present are not compelling support for me...

This figure is at the break (6 inch disjuncture) in the retaining wall, the visual

landmark for the NIX CLASSIC GUNMAN, but this has the break as seen from far to NIX's right..

Also the figure is smaller in scale than the Classic Gunman should be.

This could be a figure back closer to the fence, and slightly forward of NIX Gunman,

a spotter or source of the blood. Also, this individual you point out has

a variegated shirt or jacket, the NIX figure washes out because of his white shirt...

they say he had no skin tone, just white, and many deform and push him back

to the pergola wall, as a field of sunlight among foliage shadows......

Edited February 8, 2005 by Shanet Clark

[Bill Miller]

Duncan

Great post, very helpful, welcome aboard, etc...

While I always put forward the unexplained NIX film gunman,

these figures you present are not compelling support for me...

This figure is at the break (6 inch disjuncture) in the retaining wall, the visual

landmark for the NIX CLASSIC GUNMAN, but this has the break as seen from far to NIX's right..

Also the figure is smaller in scale than the Classic Gunman should be.

This could be a figure back closer to the fence, and slightly forward of NIX Gunman,

a spotter or source of the blood.  Also, this individual you point out has

a variegated shirt or jacket, the NIX figure washes out because of his white shirt...

they say he had no skin tone, just white, and many deform and push him back

to the pergola wall, as a field of sunlight among foliage shadows......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you guys do not learn to cross reference photos, then you are going to keep chasing your tails and end up looking silly for not being thorough. On page 57 of Groden's book "The Killing of a President" is a really good enlargement of the Towner photo showing the notch in the wall and there simply is no one where Duncan had pointed to in the example that impressed Shanet so much. How one can be posting about a 'variegated shirt or jacket' when another photo shows no one there is simply mind boggling and it all goes back to not cross referencing photos and films before doing anything else.

The Towner photo offers another important piece of data that was grossly overlooked here. It shows the two cops Gordon Arnold told about (or at least two individuals in dark clothing). Compare their size to what Duncan pointed to to make a size comparison. I am afraid that what Duncan has drawn attention to is tree foliage combined with a train tower sitting back in the RR yard. What has happened is that the photo Duncan used was taken from a higher elvation, thus the fence and the foliage is pushed together. The Towner photo was taken closer to street level and the fence and the foliage are pushed apart and doesn't allow the two to combine light and shadow in order to create possible images. Combine this with the size comparison of the guys near the tree and see what you get.

[Jim Hamilton]

hi all,i also found this in the same photo & in the same postion as Duncan

regards jim.

[Bill Miller]

Bill...Read my post again....Jesus....You are jumping the gun my old friend.At no point did i say this was a gunman.I merely stated that the shape in Stoughton also showed the classic gunman shape which i personally believe has a more than very high percentage of being false.The same anomoly can also be found in the same area when analysed in Rickerby.As for lack of cross reference,i believe Nix,Staughton and Rickerby are a much closer cross references than the Towner crop which you have posted as they are all closer together in the time scale of events.

Duncan

Sorry Duncan - I didn't mean to make it sound as if the issue was whether it was a gunman or not, but rather the fact that no one is there. There is little more than sunlit tree foliage and a Dallas Skyline being seen in the spot you think a person is visible. I should tell you that I have a first generation slide made from the original photo and when seen under extreme magnification there simply is no one there.

If someone has the actual print and can scan a high-resolution image of it - I will prove it even further.

The two men near the tree fill up the Dallas sky in the background. The area you point to shows no one blocking out the skyline.

Edited February 19, 2005 by Bill Miller

[Alan Healy]

Okay.

I just realised this morning that Badgeman was first thought to be behind the wall & not the fence.

By the time they filmed The Men who Killed Kennedy" however, he was pushed back behind the fence.

I'd like to know from Jack or Gary what made them do this.

Here is the "look back" scene from Badgeman to the Moorman position taken from TMWKK.

Can anyone spot the mistake?

Alan

[Alan Healy]

Was this ever considered as a shooter.

Kinda makes Badgeman look like a midget.

[Bill Miller]

Okay.

I just realised this morning that Badgeman was first thought to be behind the wall & not the fence.

By the time they filmed The Men who Killed Kennedy" however, he was pushed back behind the fence.

I'd like to know from Jack or Gary what made them do this.

Gary Mack has written you and said that Badge Man was always thought to be behind the fence. I have never heard it said in the research comminuity that he was anywhere else but behind the fence until you said it.

Here is the "look back" scene from Badgeman to the Moorman position taken from TMWKK.

Can anyone spot the mistake?

Alan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The most obious problem is that the MWKK camera man was not elevated high enough to have Badge Man's view over the wall. That is a common mistake made by those who go to that location and have failed to study the Badge Man more carefully from the direction that Moorman saw him. I also believe the camera man is a step or two too far South towards the street to be spot on.

The camera is also in front of the fence. Gary Mack has said that he tried to tell Nigel Turner of the mistake and that Turner ignored him.

Edited February 10, 2005 by Bill Miller

[Shanet Clark]

Bill Miller:

The camera is also in front of the fence. Gary Mack has said that he tried to tell Nigel Turner of the mistake and that Turner ignored him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The video still shows what a badgeman would have seen,

a big concrete wall between him and the limousine.

Note the small break in the wall, and the absolute superiority of the

3'6" wall to a pop up sniper...

Anyone who doubts blood could be shed between the fence and the wall should look again at that photo from the fence top, it shows the sniper's nest,

behind the wall, inside the secured sidewalk area...where the blood is shown

in the Couch video....friendly fire of some sort....

[Bill Miller]

The video still shows what a badgeman would have seen,

a big concrete wall between him and the limousine.

The video shows what someone standing on the ground would have seen. Badge Man was elevated in the air to the point that his chest area was well above a 5' tall fence. Kennedy was visible from the elevation Badge Man stood at.

Note the small break in the wall, and the absolute superiority of the

3'6" wall to a pop up sniper...

Here is Groden standing near the wall. The photo was taken from the Zapruder pedestal.

I might also add that the men on the overpass would have had an unobstructed view of the wall between the bench and the South corner. I know this because I have stood there and looked at it. I have a photo somewhere of Groden and Mike Brown there (Groden sitting on the wall). Then there was the Frazens and another guy across the street from the steps. Behind them and to the West was another couple and even further West were two other men on the South knoll.

Anyone who doubts blood could be shed between the fence and the wall should look again at that photo from the fence top, it shows the sniper's nest,

behind the wall, inside the secured sidewalk area...where the blood is shown

in the Couch video....friendly fire of some sort....

The liquid on the sidewalk was North of the bench. The video is the Darnell film - not the Couch film.

Edited February 19, 2005 by Bill Miller

[George Bollschweiler]

If you take Zapruder #312 you can see JFK is leaning to his left side facing down

to his left knee. So if seen from the Grassy Knoll he's showing his right side of the head in an almost 90° angle towards the Knoll. Wouldn't this mean, that a shoot fired from the Grassy Knoll with a high powered rifle would cause some damage to his left side of the head? IMO a shoot from the South Knoll/parking lot would rather fit the fatal shoot than from the Grassy Knoll.

[Shanet Clark]

George

That is why many of now look closely at the possibility

of a south knoll headshot. Wm. Tosh Plumlee says he

heard shots from there, and Al Carrier and DOn ROberdeau

take this theory seriously.

I think it likely Kennedy was killed by a shot that entered his

right forehead and exited his right rear skull,

and this was probably fired from the "Left Flat" the

area to Kennedy's left.

No Grassy Knoll shooter had an angle to leave the wound described at Parkland.

Edited February 10, 2005 by Shanet Clark

[Bill Miller]

George

That is why many of now look closely at the possibility

of a south knoll headshot. Wm. Tosh Plumlee says he

heard shots from there, and Al Carrier and DOn ROberdeau

take this theory seriously.

I think it likely Kennedy was killed by a shot that entered his

right forehead and exited his right rear skull,

and this was probably fired from the "Left Flat" the

area to Kennedy's left.

No Grassy Knoll shooter had an angle to leave the wound described at Parkland.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am willing to bet that Shanet has never been to Dealey Plaza and seen the possible views for himself. Cyril Wecht has! Many people look at the view Zapruder had and they don't realize that the Hat Man who fired before Badge Man had a steeper forward angle to Kennedy. They also do not consider that a tangental strike to the head will cause a missile to change course as it plows throw the head. (see The Parkland Neurosurgeon Kemp Clark's testimony to the WC)

Dr. CLARK - The effects of any missile striking an organ or a function of the energy which is shed by the missile in passing through this organ when a bullet strikes the head, if it is able to pass through rapidly without shedding any energy into the brain, little damage results, other than that part of the brain which is directly penetrated by the missile. However, if it strikes the skull at an angle, it must then penetrate much more bone than normal, therefore, is likely to shed more energy, striking the brain a more powerful blow.

Secondly, in striking the bone in this manner, it may cause pieces of the bone to be blown into the brain and thus act as secondary missiles. Finally, the bullet itself may be deformed and deflected so that it would go through or penetrate parts of the brain, not in the usual direct line it was proceeding.

James Tague is less than 60 feet away and he doesn't hear any shots coming from the South side of the plaza and the same can be said about the men on the overpass.

Tosh Plumless says he was on the South Knoll somewhere when the assassination took place. I hope I don't cite him wrong, but I believe he said there were 7 men on the underpass over Elm Street during the shooting. The Altgens #7 photo shows 11 men over Elm Street if I remember correctly. The Frank Cancellare shows no one on the South knoll and his also photo shows how open that location on the Underpass was to anyone along the North side of Elm Street. The Couch film also shows more of the South knoll and I still do not see two guys standing over there at the time of the post shooting.

[George Bollschweiler]

James Tague is less than 60 feet away and he doesn't hear any shots coming from the South side of the plaza and the same can be said about the men on the overpass

Maybe I was not precise enough when I said south knoll/parking lot so I hope

the picture below shows it better. I meant the PARKING LOT.

The other point that James Tague didn't hear a shoot from this direction is an other question but as we still don't know what kind of rifles were used we have to consider that silencers were allready invented. This position also allows a fast and quite save escape for a shooter.

Secondly, in striking the bone in this manner, it may cause pieces of the bone to be blown into the brain and thus act as secondary missiles. Finally, the bullet itself may be deformed and deflected so that it would go through or penetrate parts of the brain, not in the usual direct line it was proceeding.

There you are right but this brings in the question of the body movement. As there have been various discussions and statements if a body now moves forwards or backwards when hit by a bullet, I don't want to start this subject again but when we

are talking about a high powered rifle then IMO we would have to consider a body movement towards or away from the grassy knoll when the fatal shoot was fired.

[Bill Miller]

Maybe I was not precise enough when I said south knoll/parking lot so I hope the picture below shows it better. I meant the PARKING LOT.

Another problem I have had with the South knoll shot possibility besides the ones I have already mentioned is that not only was the parkinglot in plain view to anyone standing along the North side of Elm Street, but also to those on the Underpass. On top of the old Post Office building was JC Price if I remember correctly. He had a birds eye view of the parkinglot below and saw nothing. The same might be said about enyone at the terminal who would have been looking towards the motorcade from the Southwest.

There you are right but this brings in the question of the body movement. As there have been various discussions and statements if a body now moves forwards or backwards when hit by a bullet, I don't want to start this subject again but when we

are talking about a high powered rifle then IMO we would have to consider a body movement towards or away from the grassy knoll when the fatal shoot was fired.

Below is a stabilized clip showing the head rocking forward while the shoulders are being driven backwards. I discussed this with a couple of doctors in the past and also asked Al Carrier to look into it and it seemed what we were told was the same. Because of Kennedy's posture at the time - a bullet traveling downward and striking the skull on the front half would indeed cause it to rock forward as the engery passed down through the trunk which would push the body in the direction the shot was traveling.

The whole thing fit into place with the large avulsion seen on the back of JFK's head because as you know - a projectile passing through an object will push the surface open in the direction the projectile is traveling. The bones on the back of JFK's head were avulsed outward according to those who saw them. This certainly could be one reason the autopsy phoptos of the back of Kennedy's head had to be altered to hide this point.

Edited February 11, 2005 by Bill Miller