Oswald in Cuba?

[Steve Thomas]

Has anyone here seen this document?

AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : FBI

RECORD NUMBER : 124-10022-10075

RECORDS SERIES : HQ

AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 105-82555-1733

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : CITIZEN

FROM : HAYES, LOU WYLIE MRS.

TO : KENNEDY, ROBERT F.

TITLE : [No Title]

DATE : 12/11/1963

PAGES : 3

DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

SUBJECTS : LHO, POST-RP, UNSUBSTANTIATED SIGHTING, CUBA

CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED

RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL

CURRENT STATUS : OPEN

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 10/26/1992

Steve Thomas

[Tim Gratz]

No but remember that Key West Airport Manager George Faraldo told Senator Schweiker that in the summer of 1963 he saw LHO with a group of hippie looking young people waiting in the Key West airportr for a plane to Cuba and that with the group was Jack Ruby. Schweiker of course was a member of the Church Committee and the Committee sent Fonzi to Key West to investigate. He spent a week here in Key West investigating and reached no definitive conclusion. His investigation is reported in Chapter Seven of his book, the chapter title is "Searching for Ghosts in Key West."

In Oct of 2003 I went to the Key West newspaper and told them the story. The Citizen assigned Mark Howell to investigate it and report it with me. When Mark first started the investigation, he thought the report was probably incorrect, but afterward he concluded it probably had happened. We interviewed Mrs. Faraldo (George died several years ago) and she told us that her husband had told her of the incident shortly after the assassination and confirmed it even on his death bed. She also acknowledged her husband had probably done work for the CIA.

Recently Gerry Hemming told us someone told him that Oswald was near the presidential palace looking for him in January of 1959, and he had a similar report several months later. He never actually saw LHO in Cuba however.

[Tim Gratz]

No but remember that Key West Airport Manager George Faraldo told Senator Schweiker that in the summer of 1963 he saw LHO with a group of hippie looking young people waiting in the Key West airportr for a plane to Cuba and that with the group was Jack Ruby. Schweiker of course was a member of the Church Committee and the Committee sent Fonzi to Key West to investigate. He spent a week here in Key West investigating and reached no definitive conclusion. His investigation is reported in Chapter Seven of his book, the chapter title is "Searching for Ghosts in Key West."

In Oct of 2003 I went to the Key West newspaper and told them the story. The Citizen assigned Mark Howell to investigate it and report it with me. When Mark first started the investigation, he thought the report was probably incorrect, but afterward he concluded it probably had happened. We interviewed Mrs. Faraldo (George died several years ago) and she told us that her husband had told her of the incident shortly after the assassination and confirmed it even on his death bed. She also acknowledged her husband had probably done work for the CIA.

The story we wrote regarding the incident can be found at the cuban-exile website.

Recently Gerry Hemming told us someone told him that Oswald was near the presidential palace looking for him in January of 1959, and he had a similar report several months later. He never actually saw LHO in Cuba however.

Edited March 1, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Steve Thomas]

Tim,

The story we wrote regarding the incident can be found at the cuban-exile website.

Could you give me a specific url reference for this? I would be very interested in reading it.

Steve Thomas

[Tim Gratz]

http://www.cuban-exile.com/photo/jfk/KW-JFK2003nov23.pdf

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

Has anyone here seen this document?

AGENCY INFORMATION

            AGENCY : FBI

      RECORD NUMBER : 124-10022-10075

    RECORDS SERIES : HQ

AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 105-82555-1733

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

        ORIGINATOR : CITIZEN

              FROM : HAYES, LOU WYLIE MRS.

                TO : KENNEDY, ROBERT F.

              TITLE : [No Title]

              DATE : 12/11/1963

              PAGES : 3

      DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

          SUBJECTS : LHO, POST-RP, UNSUBSTANTIATED SIGHTING, CUBA

    CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED

      RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL

    CURRENT STATUS : OPEN

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 10/26/1992

Steve Thomas

Steve:

I don't know the document in question, and have always been somewhat leery about claims made by persons who didn't know the individuals about whom they subsequently provided information.  For example, literally hundreds of people claimed to have seen Oswald all over the United States, Canada and elsewhere.

However, there's a whole other set of reasons to wonder if the report of Mrs. Hayes has some substance.

At 4 PM on 11/22/63, Hoover advised Bobby Kennedy that Oswald "went to Cuba on several occasions, but would not tell us what he went to Cuba for."  This presupposes that LHO did travel to Cuba, on more than one occasion; that FBI knew it; and had had a chance to ask him about his travels, and purpose for same.  Of course, all three of those points run entirely counter to what would eventually transpire in the official version of events.

On that same fateful date, DPD's intelligence bobbin Lt. Stringfellow cabled US Military Intelligence in Texas with equally incorrect information, which was then sent to McDill AFB in Florida.  The cable claimed that Oswald was a defector to Cuba in 1959; that he was a card-carrying member of the US Communist party; and that he had admitted killing the President.  Of course, all three of those points run entirely counter to what would eventually transpire in the official version of events.

And the results of this misinformation might have been quite dire.  FBI's James Hosty has claimed that he subsequently learned from at least two sources that on 11/22/63, "fully armed warplanes were sent screaming toward Cuba. Just before they entered Cuban airspace, they were hastily called back. With the launching of airplanes, the entire U.S. military went on alert."

We should also remember that according to Stringfellow's colleague Lt. Jack Revill, Hosty was among those spreading such false information about Oswald.  Revill alleged that Hosty had told him, only a few hours after Kennedy's murder, that FBI knew about Oswald being a Communist; that they had data about his party affiliation in his files; and that FBI knew he was capable of doing the dastardly deed.  Of course, all three of those points run entirely counter to what would eventually transpire in the official version of events.

Clearly, somebody had been salting the record with misinformation, though we cannot be certain who, based on the extant record.  There is, however, a possibility raised by Peter Dale Scott, that merits further investigation:

"For example, one of the CIA officers in Mexico City who worked on the pre-assassination Oswald file "was certain that a second cable reporting Oswald's contacts with the Cuban Embassy had been sent to Headquarters prior to the assassination."  But there is no surviving CIA trace of any reason on November 22 to link Oswald, or the assassination, to Cuba, or possibly covert action against Cuba.

The FBI, in contrast, has now released a November 22 memo that already linked Oswald to the Cuban Embassy in Mexico:

By Secret teletype dated 10/10/63 CIA advised...that a sensitive source on 10-1-63 had reported that Lee Oswald contacted the Soviet Embassy...inquiring whether the Embassy had received any news concerning a telegram....(The Legal Attache in Mexico advised 11-22-63 that this was a telephone call made from the Cuban Embassy to the Soviet Embassy and a transcript thereof is being forwarded.)"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Steve Thomas]

Charles,

On that same fateful date, DPD's intelligence bobbin Lt. Stringfellow cabled US Military Intelligence in Texas with equally incorrect information, which was then sent to McDill AFB in Florida.  The cable claimed that Oswald was a defector to Cuba in 1959;

The cable you cite is what got me started on my search.

It was sent from the Commanding General, U.S. Continental Army Command to the Commander in Chief, U.S. Strike Command at Fort Macdill summarizing a phone call that had taken place between a Captain Saxton at U.S. Strike Command and a Lt. Colonel Fons at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio. (Fourth Army Headquarters)

I started with the assumption, "What if the information communicated by Detective Stringfellow was correct insofar as Oswald going to Cuba in 1959?"

That would mean that the person who went to Russia by way of Helsinki was not the historical Lee Harvey Oswald we've come to know.

So far, I have not been able to come to a resolution of this question, but there is some circumstantial evidence pointing to the idea that LHO was seen in the United States and elsewhere at least in 1961 and maybe 1960 (when he was supposed to be in Russia).

There is a June 3, 1960 memo from J. Edgar Hoover to the Department of State that reads:

Since there is a possibility that an imposter is

using Oswald's birth certificate, any current information the

Department of State may have concerning the subject will be

appreciated.

A copy was sent to the Director of Naval Intelligence.

From John Armstrong in his "Harvey and Lee" series:

On January 20, 1961, a man calling himself "Lee Oswald" met with Fred Sewell, manager of Bolton Ford Truck center in New Orleans. On behalf of the "Friends of Democratic Cuba," an organization whose leadership was composed largely of intelligence agents, Oswald and another man indicated they wanted to buy trucks to send to Cuba.

Again from John Armstrong:

A 5/28/64 four-page FBI document (Assassination Records Review Board Record Number 104-10004-10009) is entitled: "ALLEGATIONS BY RAYMOND B. CARNEY, NEWS DIRECTOR OF RADIO STATION KBEA, MISSION, KANSAS, THAT HE BELIEVED HE WAS IN CONTACT WITH LEE HARVEY OSWALD DURING MAY, 1961." In the summer of 1961, Carney was news director of KBOX in Dallas. He told the FBI that he had met Lee Oswald not just once, but several times during that summer. Oswald, Carney said, was trying to get a list of names of pilots who had volunteered to fly Flying Tiger missions over Cuba.

And one last one:

In Havana in May 1961, CBS journalist Robert Taber (a Fair Play for Cuba Committee founding member) met with a "Lieutenant Oswald," who was introduced as an arms expert, and Dr. Enrique Luaces. (See "SUBJECTS: OSWALD, LEE; TABER, ROBERT POTENTIAL I.D. OF OSWALD, LEE; FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE," ARRB Rec. No. 180-10031- 10352.) Dr. Luaces had no doubt that "Lieutenant Oswald" was the same man depicted on television after the assassination of JFK. (Many eyewitnesses had difficulty distinguishing "Harvey" from "Lee." )

See a U.S. Army document detailing the sighting above.

During his "Harvey and Lee" presentation at JFK Lancer's November In Dallas ‘97 symposium, John Armstrong displayed an FBI communication describing a U.S. Army report of the Havana incident. Here is the first few paragraphs of that internal FBI document:

FROM: SAC (New York)

TO: Director FBI

Enclosed for each recipient is one copy of a self-explanatory Army communication dated 12.30.63 captioned Harvey Oswald.

Enclosed Army communication alleges that Oswald was in Cuba in the company of Robert Taber, former head of Fair Play for Cuba Committee (FPCC), approximately three weeks after the April 1961, Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba.

According to the Ruby Chronologies:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo/jfk9/hscv9g.htm

Jack Ruby went to Cuba in September of 1959 (more than likely to try and get Santo Trafficante out of jail - with a deal for military equipment)

INS says Ruby leaves Miami for Cuba on Sept. 12, 1959 WC Vol.22, p.859.

INS says Jack Ruby returns to New Orleans from Cuba on Sept. 13, 1959 WC Vol.22, p.859.

Lee Harvey Oswald gets a passport on September 10th and gets out of the Marines on the 11th. He arrives in Fort Worth on the 14th and travels to New Orleans on the 17th.

I think it is quite possible that Ruby and Oswald were in New Orleans at the same time in 1959.

Did Ruby give Oswald papers to travel to Cuba?

I don't know. I'm just speculating.

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

post deleted

Steve Thomas

[Pat Speer]

At 4 PM on 11/22/63, Hoover advised Bobby Kennedy that Oswald "went to Cuba on several occasions, but would not tell us what he went to Cuba for." This presupposes that LHO did travel to Cuba, on more than one occasion; that FBI knew it; and had had a chance to ask him about his travels, and purpose for same. Of course, all three of those points run entirely counter to what would eventually transpire in the official version of events.

End Quote

Robert, I've read an awful lot of stuff and don't ever remember seeing that. Can you tell me where you got that from?

Pat

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

Duplicate post... please disregard and see below...

Edited March 3, 2005 by Robert Charles-Dunne

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

For Steve:

Among the dozen anomalies and discrepancies regarding Oswald's passport application in September 1959, I was always struck by the fact that Oswald listed Cuba first among the many countries he planned to visit. Seems to me that this might signal his intention was to visit Cuba first.

You may just be "speculating," as you said, but it is clear that somebody was using an Oswald persona while he was in the USSR. While I instinctively shy away from reading too much into reports from persons who didn't actually know the subjects they were providing information about, I put greater faith in reports from the likes of Ray Carney/Carnay [i've read both spellings], who actually met the individual they claim was Oswald, and were introduced to an individual who claimed his name was "Oswald."

For Pat:

I'll try to post the pertinent document. It'll be my first attempt to include an attachment, so please excuse me if it doesn't work properly....

Edited March 3, 2005 by Robert Charles-Dunne

[Tim Gratz]

It is my understanding that Hoover told either Robert Kennedy, LBJ, or Nixon (perhaps all three) on the day of the assassination that LHO had communist leanings but was NOT a card-carrying member of the Communist party.

It is an understatement to say that Hoover's statement about LHO having been in Cuba is interesting. The salient questtion is what documents had Hoover seen and why have they not been produced?

The other point about this is who questioned LHO about his trips to Cuba. Was it FBI agents prior to the assassination or was it his interrogators following his capture on November 22, 1963?

[Tim Gratz]

Robert Charles-Dunne wrote:

[The] FBI's James Hosty has claimed that he subsequently learned from at least two sources that on 11/22/63, "fully armed warplanes were sent screaming toward Cuba. Just before they entered Cuban airspace, they were hastily called back. With the launching of airplanes, the entire U.S. military went on alert."

If this is true (and I understand Robert is merely reporting it, not vouching for it) there must be other reports of this.

What do members think? Was Hosty merely mistaken or was this "incident" suppressed. Hosty, I believe, is still alive and could be questioned about his sources.

[Steve Thomas]

Tim,

Robert Charles-Dunne wrote:

[The] FBI's James Hosty has claimed that he subsequently learned from at least two sources that on 11/22/63, "fully armed warplanes were sent screaming toward Cuba. Just before they entered Cuban airspace, they were hastily called back. With the launching of airplanes, the entire U.S. military went on alert."

If this were true, What would be interesting too would be to learn who ordered the airplanes launched.

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

Robert,

For Steve:

Among the dozen anomalies and discrepancies regarding Oswald's passport application in September 1959, I was always struck by the fact that Oswald listed Cuba first among the many countries he planned to visit.  Seems to me that this might signal his intention was to visit Cuba first.

He did the same thing in his September, 1963 Mexico City visit I think.

I know that back in 1959, there were groups of students who went to Cuba on cultural exchange visits and to help cut the sugarcane crop. I've tried, with no success so far, to find lists of those students to see if Oswald's name showed up on any.

Steve Thomas