Military Sniper Team or other?

[John Geraghty]

Hello all,

after following the post by Tim Gratz about GPH's allegations of a dal tex spotter it keeps nagging me that to have cuban exiles as shooters would consist of a completely different kind of coup than if it had been carried out by a team of military snipers. the cubans would suggest obviously that they were disgruntled with the BOP and the whole cuban affair, whereas a military team would be infinitely better trained (in my unqualified opinion) and would have had the professional backup to perform an operation of this kind, it is far more likely to me that a military team would have been used if the assassination was monetarily driven say perhaps by texas oilmen.

To have it carried out by the cubans would seem to me to be on a much lower level that was capable of such an act as well as covering it up, to me it wasnt a single issue that had kennedy killed which is what the cuban theory would suggest...just for the chance of another invasion.

thoughts?

john

p.s. sorry if this seems a bit of a rag tag post as I seem to lose the run of myself mid-way though and spout whatever comes to mind

[John Geraghty]

may i point out that it was a military team used in the MLK assassination.

john

[Shanet Clark]

JOhn,

Glad you ar posting. the position you put forth is a mainstream one, out of a handful of near-consensus theories, that is one. Never forget the cut-out, the deniability the distance which the sponsors would have wanted to place between their effort and themselves. Here is what I mean by near consensus themes.

One is that Cuban exiles, angry at JFK for the Bay of Pigs debacle, with or without CIA fore-kn owledge, killed him.

Of course the Texas Oilmen is a theory, with or without Connally or Johnson's involvement, killed him.

I tend to go to the old 1960s consensus, "the government was behind it"

meaning executive action, or sanction with extreme prejudice, by the other

executives around Johnson, CD Dillon and Maxwell Taylor.

Another consensus (nearly) theme is this one: organized crime elements from Los Angeles, New Orleans, Chicago, Tampa and Dallas led the effort.....

So really there are four near consensus themes, and a false null hypothesis (oswald).

Oswald the Lone Nut Commie. (a poor "null hypothesis" accepted by only a minority)

Angry Cubans (with or without CIA). This is your angle (Thread and Post)

Texas Oil barons and Manipulators. (with or w/o Johnson) John Simkin posts along these lines, and he is not wrong.

Ranking Military and Government sponsors, Executive Sanction. My posts and the Twenty Fifth Amendment theme, traditional "military coup, government did it"

Organized Crime (w/w.o CIA help) Mob Hit. This is also not "Wrong" but was overemphasized by the 1977 House Committee and Robert Blakey.

There are other themes (french OAS, KGB and Castro) but these are the BIG FOUR.

Hope that was helpful, my young British friend, it is puzzling

.................Shanet

[Dawn Meredith]

may i point out that it was a military team used in the MLK assassination.

john

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

__________________

John and Shanet:

I think it is almost impossible to ever know exactly who did it. We can theorize til the cows come home. Fact is JFk had a lot of powerful enemies. Especially in Tx.

To prove that we have been lied to for almost 42 years by our government we need to focus on who did not do it, and how to prove this. Of course everyone here knows this, but the trick is how to get this basic information to the general public. We do not have history books in schools or even universitiies that are honest. Very few in the press will touch this. Thank God for the internet, so that people who want to explore this matter can do so. Problem is getting people to care. In that regard this conspiracy has been nearly 100% successful.

Except polls find that approximately 80% of US citizens do not bellieve the WC. But when asked what they do believe instead I have been dismayed at just how successful the other cover stories have been: ie "Mob did it" ," Castro did it". The press has been most useful in employing this secondary level of cover stories.

[Richard J. Smith]

Hello all,

after following the post by Tim Gratz about GPH's allegations of a dal tex spotter it keeps nagging me that to have cuban exiles as shooters would consist of a completely different kind of coup than if it had been carried out by a team of military snipers. the cubans would suggest obviously that they were disgruntled with the BOP and the whole cuban affair, whereas a military team would be infinitely better trained (in my unqualified opinion) and would have had the professional backup to perform an operation of this kind, it is far more likely to me that a military team would have been used if the assassination was monetarily driven say perhaps by texas oilmen.

To have it carried out by the cubans would seem to me to be on a much lower level that was capable of such an act as well as covering it up, to me it wasnt a single issue that had kennedy killed which is what the cuban theory would suggest...just for the chance of another invasion.

thoughts?

john

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

John,

I am a proponent of the "exiles did it" theory, but IMO they were the boots on the ground in DP. They had a major portion of the CIA behind them, so it wasn't just an exile operation. I have a problem with highly trained military snipers in that if there were 4, 5, 6 shots or more as many believe, these guys should have lost their stripes. An expert marksman team with military training would have done the job with a minimum number of shots. I don't believe they would have been bouncing shots off the pavement, off curbstones, and into the grass. IMO the coverup effectively covered the ass of the CIA. I also believe the lookalikes in DP weren't lookalikes. They were the real deal, and nearly every one had involvement in anti-Castro Cuban operations.

RJS

[Lee Forman]

John,

Consider that the surface has only been scratched. I don't think we can leap from where we are to the assumption that 'only' Anti-Castro Cuban Exiles were involved. If this was indeed a CIA orchestrated op, then they would only be part of the team deployed. I believe considerable research has been done and will continue to be done which will reveal other groups being engaged in tandem. Local resources are critical to thr success of such an operation, for example. There are too many leads that seem to reveal contractors being present with Maffia affiliations, and the same for Militant Right Wing types.

Also, I think I'd be hesitant to suggest that the Cubans involved weren't qualified in terms of the training that they would have received. I had a discussion recently with a Cuban which suggested that during the 1960s Cuban military, G2 and these Cuban exiles were highly skilled, experienced and professional soldiers - very capable.

- lee

[Tim Gratz]

For your information, Gerry Hemming tells me there were three teams operating in Dealey Plaza, and that they were "autonomous", although presumably controlled by the same person.

Mr. Hemming has never identified a Cuban exile as a shooter. He identified Nestor Izquierdo as a spotter in the DaTex Building. He has described to me the shooter in the TSBD and the type of weapon used. I will post this information next Friday. Suffice it to say now that per Mr. Hemming the TSBD shooter was NOT a Cuban exile.

More later.

[Ron Ecker]

I believe that at least one military sniper would have been on hand to ensure success. I believe the military would have held the view that, yeah, we need some Cuban and Mafia foot soldiers on hand for cover and potential patsies, but if you want something done right, you do it yourself.

If the fatal head shot came from the south knoll area, the bullet going just over the windshield, just under the crossbar, and straight through JFK's head, that was a professional shot, fired from the best tracking position in the plaza. And time was running out, since Greer couldn't keep creeping along while looking back at the target all day.

Ron

[Lee Forman]

For your information, Gerry Hemming tells me there were three teams operating in Dealey Plaza, and that they were "autonomous", although presumably controlled by the same person.

Mr. Hemming has never identified a Cuban exile as a shooter. He identified Nestor Izquierdo as a spotter in the DaTex Building. He has described to me the shooter in the TSBD and the type of weapon used. I will post this information next Friday. Suffice it to say now that per Mr. Hemming the TSBD shooter was NOT a Cuban exile.

More later.

NICE WORK TIM!

I can't wait to see what you've got!

- lee

[Lee Forman]

I believe that at least one military sniper would have been on hand to ensure success.  I believe the military would have held the view that, yeah, we need some Cuban and Mafia foot soldiers on hand for cover and potential patsies, but if you want something done right, you do it yourself. 

If the fatal head shot came from the south knoll area, the bullet going just over the windshield, just under the crossbar, and straight through JFK's head, that was a professional shot, fired from the best tracking position in the plaza. And time was running out, since Greer couldn't keep creeping along while looking back at the target all day. 

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Ron,

I still believe personally that the South Knoll is a ruse.

I agree with your first statement however, and still wonder quite often as to whether a botched plan for a second Patsy didn't take place on the knoll. This could have been someone with ties to Oswald, and also, given some conversations I've had and some reading and thinking - why not a G2 infiltrator - a known doubleagent, who would have been invited to the dance only to provide his corpse behind? Lets hypothesize that he's got false SS ID on him [hence the stories concerning the dead SA], and he is intentionally hit from one of the other locations [not South Knoll], but he manages to limp away - towards the TSBD, if Malcolm Couch is correct. Perhaps he vanishes from history after a few phone calls are made concerning the need to freeze it and implicate only Oswald.

Your earlier points concerning the use of dark skinned Cubans is well noted, and worth further consideration. Very interesting.

- lee

[Shanet Clark]

Strong Scenario Ron, and you really know the evidence.

[John Geraghty]

shanet,

just to clear it up, im irish but i wont hold it against you!

im a hard drinking paddy

john

[Shanet Clark]

March 17th is St. Patrick's Day.

March 19th Saturday I will march with the Hibernian Benevolent Society in the Atlanta St. Patrick's Day Parade......

[John Geraghty]

March 17th is St. Patrick's Day.

March 19th Saturday I will march with the Hibernian Benevolent Society in the Atlanta St. Patrick's Day Parade......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

good to hear it Shanet, I will make a bold prediction and say that I will be blind drunk on paddys day!

john

[George Bollschweiler]

Sláinte!