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Lee,

Dunkin had access to some very important players including

WerBell. I have a few images of WerBell and Project Nassau.

Dunkin was found butt naked right outside his mobile home.

First thoughts by officals was that Dunkin was struck by lightning

which was latered changed to his so-call drinking habits. A number

of friends and reporters disbuted the officals findings.

A second team that went into Dunkin's mobile home found all

the floor boards had been ripped up. Also, his photo collection

soaking up several inches of water.

The contact sheets of INTERPEN were meant NEVER to be found.

johnw

Hi John.

What about the cause of death? It's a shame - Dunkin seemed like a good guy, just from what I've read that he had written and what I read about him. It's interesting, however, that anyone would have even allowed him to take some of the photos that he did - I guess the assumption was at the time that there was nothing in it - or that Dunkin could be trusted or ?

Like the Pontchartrain film [that allegedly didn't exist], I found that bit on Ruby having a film of a whole drug scam with a Mexican contact facinating. I still keep wondering about Altgens also - the man allegedly took something like 73 photos, yet we are only aware of a few - even Gary Mack doesn't know what became of the other 60+ photos - many of which were taken during the aftermath, from what I understand. And De Torres allegedly has some of his own stuff on ice for security - what I'd spend [if I had it :ice ] to get ahold of some of that.

On the Dunkin stuff - do you know the story on how some of it survived? Was it luck?

- lee

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Guest John Woods

Hi Lee,

His death could have been of natural causes, but I have seriously doubts. Given the fact that there was clean up crew including one

who's name appears on this forum.

As to Altgens, I believe all his images are on file. I have several

contact sheets of his images that have never been published.

Your work on Ruby is going to pay off for you one day. Keep

digging as it will all tie togeather.

johnw

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I wish I knew a way to access a database of all known Paperclippers and associated parties. Arlen FUHLENDORF's claims about his anonymous informant sound like rubbish. Is he a Paperclipper?

Hit 1 of 1

AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : DOJ

RECORD NUMBER : 179-20003-10435

RECORDS SERIES : CLASSIFIED SUBJECT FILE 129-11, OFFICIAL MAIL SECT. 35

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

ORIGINATOR : FBI

FROM : DALLAS, TX

TO : [No To]

TITLE : [No Title]

DATE : 04/06/1977

PAGES : 6

DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT

SUBJECTS : FUHLENDORF, ARLEN; RUBY, JACK

CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED

RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED

CURRENT STATUS : POSTPONED IN FULL

DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 00/00/0000

COMMENTS : BOX 60

Why postpone this one?

SA ARLEN L. FUHLENDORF, IRS Intelligence Division, Fort Worth, Texas.

Anyone have this document? Seems like it may be in Ferrell's. Guess I will have to break down and figure out how to join again.

Here's a good one - unrelated. Oscar Schneider, who allegedly worked the Philadelphia Experiment. As per his son, he related on his deathbed that he had been a U-Boat Captain for the Reich, before being Paperclipped. Ironically and ingeniously, as part of his cover they made him Jewish.

- lee

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Guest John Woods

Winslow was able to savage some of Dunkin's collection.

To the best of my knowledge, Dunkin never donated his

collection.

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Winslow was able to savage some of Dunkin's collection.

To the best of my knowledge, Dunkin never donated his

collection.

Oscar Schneider's name is not in the index to The Philadelphia Experiment.......But I have a question, or a statement regarding the U-boat, if it was the U-977...let me know.....

Don't take that the wrong way, I am being serious.....I just have issues with Charles Berlitz, he reminds me of Corso, meaning, I trust his writings and reliability as a trustworthy source about as far as I can throw a stick.....Even though The Philadelphia Experiment is an incredible book.....

And I Definitely believe there is something credible about Nazi/Fascist connections to the JFK assassination.....

On another note, I saw this document on maryferrell.org a couple of days ago, and decided it was worth everyone having a look.....

CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION

DECEMBER 1, 1963

U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL ROBERT F. KENNEDY & MR. ALLEN W. DULLES

WHITE HOUSE 1600 PENNSYLVANIA AVE.

WASHINGTON, D.C.

DEAR SIRS: THERE ARE POSSIBLY NO TWO MEN ALIVE IN AMERICA WHO HAVE BROUGHT AS MUCH INJURY TO MY LIFE THE PAST FEW YEARS THAN ROBERT KENNEDY AND ALLEN DULLES, YET, RECALLING A TIME WHEN I HELD YOU BOTH IN HIGHEST ADMIRATION, I LOOK TO THOSE DAYS FROM WHICH I FEEL COMMENDED TO DIRECT THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION TO YOUR ATTENTION.

THE FOLLOWING MAY HAVE NO BEARING ON THE TRAGIC ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY, BUT I NEVER THE LESS SUBMIT IT FOR YOUR STUDY AND CONSIDERATION.

1.Monday, November 25, 1963, while watching television camera scenes of Lee Harvey Oswald being moved from the Dallas City Police basement, and subsequent murder at about 11:20 A.M., I was immediately taken back by the announcement that our witnessing of Oswalds murder was committed by one Ruby, Jack Ruby.

2. When Jack Ruby’s picture was released over the television, I said to my friend in our Shaw Hotel room, “my god, I know that man!”

I know that man, but where do I know him from, and with whom?

3. During the past 8 day’s I have tried to back-track my life in the most recent years and in various cities where I have might have known this man or those to whom he was associated. If my memory serves me right, Jack Ruby was visiting syndicate members in San Diego between the last months of 1961 and early months of 1962. The meeting of the Syndicate Members was at the “Brass Rail,” a bar-restaurant owned by two Hungarian members. It is used as a homosexual bar, much as the New York Syndicate under the former Gallo gang used some dozen homosexual bars as ‘fronts.” Today the Syndicate in New York and Chicago are using Exotic Dance bars, strip-tease bars, harem dancing bars, and the giant hot-dog house as “fronts.”

4. Jack Ruby is known as a “fingerman” in these operations, and not only is it probable for him to have had a hand in stimulating the assassination of President Kennedy by Oswald, but likewise pre-arranged the attitudes for the assassination which was ordered from the East Coast. Oswald was a “sitting duck” to be used for the actual killing of President Kennedy. I sincerely believe that Oswald was to have met his accomplice in the theater, supposedly been highly paid, thence escaped to Mexico & Cuba. If I am right in my deductions, that it was The Syndicate that instigated the thought of the assassination, then Oswald would have been liquidated within a few hours of President Kennedy’s death anyway.

5. I have a very strong feeling that Jack Ruby might well have been the “finger-man” who set up the murder of

Nick deJohn in San Francisco. You should really confront the above-mentioned to Jack Ruby, it might jar him a bit!

Please know that I deeply regret that so much action was taken against my mail and other outlets while in San Diego 1961, for as I then suggested in my communications, I could have indeed forwarded some very strong evidence against the welfare of our people which eminated from near the border

I wish you every good luck by the investigations, stressing the most careful analysis and protection to those who might give testimony during the trial.

I likewise suggest that Mr. Robert Kennedy personally take greater precautions for himself and family until such time as he retires as Attorney General.

I prefer not to sign my name, rather just enclosing one of my old cards to acknowledge the sender of this letter. As you know from my past letters, I have very little confidence in the local FBI office maintaining silence regarding my name. please do not acknowledge this letter to them here.

Respectfully Yours

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=2

To be quite honest, I am posting this letter to show a cross-section of some of the material I run into at maryferrell.org.

To a degree the letter seems like a very credible document, but on the other hand, what area of government operations could RFK and Dulles possibly be in a position to have caused problems for anybody?......That is my problem with it, ie the document in question.

Does anybody know what year Nick deJohn was murdered? I believe it was circa 1953-56.......

Edited by Robert Howard

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It may be worthwhile to assess the roles of Ruby and other syndicate figures against a background of other possible G-mob operations.

For instance: do we accept that valuable illegal substances are used by the G. as part of a covert economy?

Does the G. move this material at the retail level, where it is most valuable but also most dangerous and attention-attracting? Or does it farm the "street" part out to career criminals?

So, there may have been operational levels for the mob, and not for the mob. They may not have been the shooters or the planners - but supplied the bankrolling and clean-up. They may have been allowed to bring in guns and shooters that were never intended to be used (just as certain exile groups never left US shores), as a way of tossing them some flash-and-dash for all the money they had spent. If military-intel-DPD teams did the work but failed to kill a patsy, the mob may have been the last resort for clean-up - and one close to the DPD.

I do not believe any high-ranking mob figures pulled triggers in DP, as some have asserted. No low-rankers either - perhaps a foreign mobster with US intel-military connections. I do believe my eyes, though, when I see Oswald notice Ruby in the jail basement, register surprise, and smile at him quickly before he moves on.

If this is so, and I think it is, then Oswald was also aware of him during the press briefing where Ruby corrected the name of the FPCC. It would be good to see all the film of Oswald during that event, to see if there is any reaction when Ruby speaks.

Edited by David Andrews

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Yes, that's Ruby or a lookalike walking under the tree. He can be seen more clearly (as can McNeill) in the book.) (Ron Ecker)

Hi Ron,

Here's a blow-up of the man in question. Could this be Jack Ruby?

James

[/qu

Ron

If you have Richard Trask's book "Pictures of the Pain" you will find some very good scenes where one might spot Ruby.

As for the Mercer statement -

10:30 AM - Tony Zoppi, entertainment reporter for DMN, told the HSCA that Ruby visited his office on November 22.

Jack wanted Tony to plug an ESP expert that was going to perform at Carousel "Jack was too calm that morning to have been involved in a conspiracy" (HSCA IX, 169-173)

10:50 AM - Ruby stopped at DMN and talked to two girls (Craddock and Conlin) at desk (20 H 49)

11 - ? AM - Julia Ann Mercer believed she saw Ruby driving a pick-up truck at the Knoll. ((19 H s483-484)

11 or 11:20 AM - Jack called his sister Eva said he was in Tony Zoppi's office (DMN) (14 H 467)

11 - 11:30 AM - Jack corrected his previous statement about his time of arrival at DMN. (5 H 183)

11:30 AM - Hugh Aynesworth reported seeing Ruby having breakfast in DMN cafeteria "about an hour before assassination". "Reporters Remember" REPORTING THE KENNEDY ASSASSINATION Hlavach and Payne, editors, p.30.

11-12 AM - FBI Ruby statement. Ruby claimed to have went to Zoppi's office but he was not there.

He thought Tony had went to New Orleans. Jack then said he went to the Ad area and began to write his

advertisements for the club. (Somebody's memory is a little off - maybe Tony's as he told a different version at "Reporters

Remember" at SMU Conference - he said he watched the motorcade from the Adolphus marquee, p. 73)

Of course, we know people do not actually sit around and stare of their watches so what we have here are probably "guesstaments" However, when you lop them together with other statements sometimes a little reason

creeps in.

Regards,

Martha Moyer

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TIMELINE OF JACK RUBY

TIMELINE OF JACK RUBY'S ACTIVITIES November 20–24, 1963. by M. A. Moyer and Betty Windsor. PREFACE. I. JACK RUBY TIMELINE OF ACTIVITIES 11/20—11/24/63 ...

karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/issues_and...Ruby/Timeline_of_Ruby.html -

MARTHA AND BETTY'S RUBY TIMELINE FOR ANY WHOM HAVE NOT AVAILED THEMSELVES OF IT..MANY THANKS MARTY TAKE CARE..BEST B..EXCUSE CAPS THANKS..

Edited by Bernice Moore

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Yes please, Duke. I've looked for the address on a number of occasions when it seemed relevant with no luck. I was trying to figure something out and kept coming up against that in following Ruby's movements.

Hey Duke - don't want to steal your thunder - but just happened to have info at hand:

1-2:00 AM OLSEN, HARRY: Had "two to three" hour conversation with Ruby, Kathy Kay and "Johnny Simpson, garage atttendant at Simon's Parking Lot on corner of Jackson and Field.

Conversation ended about 2 or 3 AM (14 H 632-32, dtd 8/6/64) In interview of 12/16 Olsen staated they only talked to Jack for about 10 minutes at around 1:30 AM (25 H 279)

1:00 AM - COLEMAN, Kathy Kay: She and Harry had been to Sip and Nip on Commerce for a drink. When it closed at 12 midnight - she and Harry went to talk to their "friend" Johnny at Simon's Parking Lot. Jack drove by at about 1 AM - they honked and Ruby stopped. Conversation lasted about an hour. Harry and Kay back home about 3:00 AM (14 H 646-7)

1:00 AM - SIMPSON, John J. "Johnny": Olsen came to pick up his car about 1:00 AM. Coleman yelled at Ruby as he was walking down street and Ruby came over and talked to Kay and Harry for about an hour or so. Simpson stated he was not involved in any conversation and was not a close friend of Olsen or Coleman. (25 H 521)

1:15 AM - KNIGHT, RUSS, disc jockey at KLIF saw Ruby at police station. Arranged interview with Henry wade Ruby wanted Knight to ask Wade if LHO was insance (15 H 485-87)

2:00 AM - RUBY: . . left KLIF to drive to Times Herald Building. On the way stopped and talked to "Harry Carlson" a Dallas Police officer and the young lady he was with with called Kathy Kay (who worked at Carousel) . Ruby said he never mentioned this before because officer had marital problems and it was a secret that he went with Kathy Kay. Ruby said he didn't want the office to get into trouble. (5 H 191) NOTE: Olsen and wife divorced in October '63 (14 H 627) Ruby's statement about Harry and Kathy Kay was made after Jack''s trial.

One interesting bit of minutia: Tippit's last call in was from corner of 8th and Lancaster. You can stand on that corner - and even an old as dirt lady such as myself - can throw a rock and hit Kathy Kay's apartment.

Duke - I believe you are very knowledgeable in this area. I have some information that may or may not be worthwhile. If you are interested - get in touch.

Martha

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[During the early 1990's in Dallas, there was a JFK Assassination Research Center in Dallas, I believe Larry Howard was the proprietor of it. Anyway the Center had "letters that Jack Ruby had written while in prison," although described by some as "long and rambling" the letters contained strange references to things such as "pogroms against the Jews." I never had the opportunity to peruse the documents, but have always been curious about them. Is there anyone here on the forum who is familiar with this aspect of Ruby, who may have the ability to post the letters on the forum or, provide their own insights into the material?

ROBERT I HAVE A FEW OF HIS LETTERS THOUGH I HAVE NO IDEA EXACTLY HOW MANY THERE WERE AND I HAVE NO ANALYSIS OF THEM FWTAW...EXCUSE CAPS THANKS...B IF ANY DOUBLE I WILL DELETE THEM...THE LAST PHOTO IS OF HIS PARENTS ...

Edited by Bernice Moore

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I always wondered why the CIA released the photos of the false "Oswald"

character at the Mexico City Russian Embassy when they in fact were manifestly not

Oswald.........................but only a pal of DeTorres................???

_______________________________________________________________

Good question.

--Thomas

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robert a ruby note...b

Bernice, as always I consider it an honor that you go that extra mile for everyone here on the Forum.....Here is something of an update to my last post. I will update as more information is assimilated....

Nick DeJohn was murdered in 1947.

http://members.fortunecity.com/sosdie/mob/...ran/sanfran.htm

In March 1977 Arlan L Fuhlendorf was the Group Manager of the Internal Revenue Service, in Dallas Texas who, apparently at that time, contacted someone who was, or had been an informant on the 25th floor of the Manor House and they talked about Candy Barr. The informant appears to be the same informant who reported that Jack Ruby asked him regarding the Presidential motorcade of JFK on 11/22/63, ostensibly if he would like to "watch the fireworks." At the heart of, or at least part of this story is whether Jack Ruby was inside the Dallas Morning news at the time of the assassination, or as it has been alleged, he was standing next to the Terminal Annex Building. Since the document referenced earlier, is still postponed in full, [and certainly is not on the mary ferrell website,] the idea that the informant was telling the truth, and Dallas Morning News employees were, in effect, creating an alibi for Ruby has to be at least considered as a reason why said document, is still classified in 2010.

See Harvey Lee and Tippit

http://www.ctka.net/pr198-jfk.html

http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/24859/jfksnew.txt

From Lee Forman's post # 44 on this thread.

Why would Ruby be working so hard to gather photographic evidence on the Birchers early the next morning? Why would Ruby care about the name Weissman on the Wanted for Treason ad?

Although it is speculative, might it have been because he was starting to get concerned about right wing activities in Dallas in his own personal social circle, and that he was already beginning to suspect, "he was being used for a purpose?"

Regarding another post made on this thread by John Woods in post # 53

I believe that Oswald had "watchers" at all times.

That he certainly did, nowhere is this more evident than in the brief period after Oswald is leaving New Orleans to "go to Mexico," the FBI was looking for him frantically....

Duff, the Scottish charlatan who lived with General Walker for a time "said" that Ruby had been to Walker's residence before the assassination. What is problematic about that, is what is problematic about so many areas of the assassination.

Who is believable and who is not.....

At the root of practically every divergent view between those who believe the assassination was a conspiracy and those who do not, is acceptance and/or rejection of testimony or statements made in official documents.

This, in my view is one of the most salient issues which still stares us in the face in 2010.

Someone wrote, what is needed is not to bury the truth, but to suppress it until nobody cares......

Truer words were never spoken.....Call it the generational memory hole.....

Edited by Robert Howard

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Back to the business at hand...

First article - National Enquirer, but got me thinking. Jan 31, 1975.

"Speaking exclusively to THE ENQUIRER, Dr. Tateur, 63, revealed that Ruby's mental torture was so great that he 'never spoke in anything above a whisper' for fear of having his words recorded and 'thought the county jail was a concentration camp.'

....."Speaking with marked fear, he said he was the victim of a conspiracy and was 'framed' to kill Oswald, so that Oswald could never say who made him kill Kennedy. 

This 'frame' involved a stripteaser, Ruby;s employee, who, on the fatal morning of Nov 24, 1963, 'made him go to the Western Union to wire her money....'"

"Ruby said the conspiracy also involved high government agencies and his attorneys, whom he considered to be members of the plot.'"

That's enough on that one. Yes, there's more about hearing voices of Jewish people being tortured in the next cell, etc.

However. There are many things that bother me about Jack Ruby.

- As per the initial posting, it appears that there was someone that looked like Ruby active in Dealey Plaza. The man at the TSBD doorway could be said to bear some resemblance.

- Marguerite Oswald is presented with what? A photo of Jack Ruby, before he kills her son? Or Saul?

- Mexican Oswald [saul] and the memo concerning alteration of the photo to avoid confusion with Ruby.

- The Mercer affidavit, which alters her statement to not include her identification of Ruby.

- The man described at the scene of the Tippit murder

- The photos

Now Hemming is saying that Saul was indeed someone we should be looking at. MacDonald says so also - has him on the top floor of the DalTex, with the plan to terminate 'Harvey' and create the fall guy for the assassination. Interesting.

From Coronet, March 1965 - the Belli interview.

Did he remember walking into the Dallas Police Headquarters basement that Sunday morning, November 24?

"Yes.  I just waved my hand to the guy and walked in."

And what did he remember then?

"Well, there were lights and a crowd."

And then?

"Well, I shot him."

Explain.  What happened?

"Well, they were all on top of me and I kept saying, 'I'm Jack Ruby.  You don't need to beat my brains out.'  Then they took me inside...."

We went over it again and again.  Always the same story.  Always the same failure to be specific about the thing itself - to tell how he did the shooting.  He referred to everything but the actual event.  The block in his recollection was glaring.  He told about sending the money order to his dancer, leaving his beloved dog Sheba in his parked car, but he never knew where he was just before the shooting....

Here's the Dallas Police Department Ruby.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/rubydpd2.jpg

Here is the Warren Report Ruby.

http://www.all-science-fair-projects.com/s...ting-oswald.jpg

And this is....who is this?

http://www.yale.edu/yale300/democracy/may1...ssasination.gif

More from Coronet:

"There was one weird trait.  Unfailingly, at the mention of a member of President Kennedy's family, tears would start to course down his cheeks.  It could even be a casual mention -- later we tested his reaction by saying things like, "Too bad Jack Kennedy won't be able to see the Giants play" -- and the tears would just flow out of there.  It was too spontaneous to be an act."

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Back to the business at hand...

First article - National Enquirer, but got me thinking. Jan 31, 1975.

"Speaking exclusively to THE ENQUIRER, Dr. Tateur, 63, revealed that Ruby's mental torture was so great that he 'never spoke in anything above a whisper' for fear of having his words recorded and 'thought the county jail was a concentration camp.'

....."Speaking with marked fear, he said he was the victim of a conspiracy and was 'framed' to kill Oswald, so that Oswald could never say who made him kill Kennedy.

This 'frame' involved a stripteaser, Ruby;s employee, who, on the fatal morning of Nov 24, 1963, 'made him go to the Western Union to wire her money....'"

"Ruby said the conspiracy also involved high government agencies and his attorneys, whom he considered to be members of the plot.'"

That's enough on that one. Yes, there's more about hearing voices of Jewish people being tortured in the next cell, etc.

However. There are many things that bother me about Jack Ruby.

- As per the initial posting, it appears that there was someone that looked like Ruby active in Dealey Plaza. The man at the TSBD doorway could be said to bear some resemblance.

- Marguerite Oswald is presented with what? A photo of Jack Ruby, before he kills her son? Or Saul?

- Mexican Oswald [saul] and the memo concerning alteration of the photo to avoid confusion with Ruby.

- The Mercer affidavit, which alters her statement to not include her identification of Ruby.

- The man described at the scene of the Tippit murder

- The photos

Now Hemming is saying that Saul was indeed someone we should be looking at. MacDonald says so also - has him on the top floor of the DalTex, with the plan to terminate 'Harvey' and create the fall guy for the assassination. Interesting.

From Coronet, March 1965 - the Belli interview.

Did he remember walking into the Dallas Police Headquarters basement that Sunday morning, November 24?

"Yes. I just waved my hand to the guy and walked in."

And what did he remember then?

"Well, there were lights and a crowd."

And then?

"Well, I shot him."

Explain. What happened?

"Well, they were all on top of me and I kept saying, 'I'm Jack Ruby. You don't need to beat my brains out.' Then they took me inside...."

We went over it again and again. Always the same story. Always the same failure to be specific about the thing itself - to tell how he did the shooting. He referred to everything but the actual event. The block in his recollection was glaring. He told about sending the money order to his dancer, leaving his beloved dog Sheba in his parked car, but he never knew where he was just before the shooting....

Here's the Dallas Police Department Ruby.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/rubydpd2.jpg

Here is the Warren Report Ruby.

http://www.all-science-fair-projects.com/s...ting-oswald.jpg

And this is....who is this?

http://www.yale.edu/yale300/democracy/may1...ssasination.gif

More from Coronet:

"There was one weird trait. Unfailingly, at the mention of a member of President Kennedy's family, tears would start to course down his cheeks. It could even be a casual mention -- later we tested his reaction by saying things like, "Too bad Jack Kennedy won't be able to see the Giants play" -- and the tears would just flow out of there. It was too spontaneous to be an act."

Robert: some interesting excerpts these are just snippets, here and there, there are some 75 pages, some of it is pretty cryptic

Commission Document 1254 - Random Notes of Jack Ruby supplied by Eva Grant

.....Check for character reference M.O. Rush owned gasoline stations and supply house.........Capt. Preston checked me out in 1956 and I told him I could own as many clubs as I wanted to. At the time I owned three.......Pizza deal Feder, Log Cabin deal 1958..........

........D (ut) a week before the tragic ppening I left the Carousel Club a Friday or Saturday to MC the show the Vegas because my sister was in the hospital or had just returned after major operation........One of the fellows drinking beer on the sidewalk who was with another companion made a remark such as Jack, do you have your pistol with you and I didn't answer him and rushed into the club........Two of the biggest burly fellows that I’ve had static with at the Vegas Club many times...they each must weigh at least 220 lbs and they are the vicious types.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1

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