Winston Scott: CIA Station Chief in Mexico

[Michael Hogan]

My own feeling is that the (Alvarado) issue was invented out of whole cloth, and when the first salesman failed to sell it, a second salesman was recruited. That they both lied is self-evident, based upon the internal contradictions and inconsistencies contained in their stories. Why they lied, and for whom, is the far more germane issue, I think.

From The Last Investigation by Gaeton Fonzi:

The type of incident the Alvarado fabrication represents has the clear hallmarks of a counterintelligence scheme, a shrewd ploy loaded with diverse angles, from the ridiculous to the sublime. However ludicrous the scenario, it requires time and effort to investigate and, although discredited, in the end it leaves ripples, further muddying already murky waters.

As a Nicaraguan intelligent (sic) agent working out of Mexico City, Alvarado was one of David Phillip's assets. There may have been others more strategically placed....

....Yet the pattern of misinformation flowing out of Mexico city is only a small part of that makes that area the most intriguing of the mystery. It's relation to the assassination is abundant with mirror images and

infused with contradictions so compelling, they smack of deliberate design

. (Italics mine) The very existence of that design may portend the answer.

In the same chapter the normally understated Fonzi makes no bones about labelling Phillips a xxxx on many issues to investigators for the HSCA (including Fonzi). He also writes:

(Eddie) Lopez and Leap uncovered other revealing information in Mexico City from the CIA officer who was Deputy Chief of the station at the time. "He told us," Lopez reported, that Phillips was a really bizarre character. He was a loner and reported only to the station chief, Win Scott. But Scott just let him do whatever he wanted. He was really autonomous. He said he thought that Phillips was running his own operations that no one else knew about. He did know that whenever Phillips was working on an operation he was careful not to leave his fingerprints anywhere. That's the word he used: 'fingerprints.'

[James Richards]

Also, has anyone seen the backs of the mystery man photos? Win says the visit dates are stamped upon them. (Chuck Robbins)

Chuck,

This is not exactly what you are after but it comes from an Agency photo mounting sheet which was put together for the Mexico City mystery man.

FWIW.

James

[Jim Root]

John

You stated:

"Michael Scott eventually got his father's manuscript back from the CIA. However, 150 pages were missing. Chapters 13 to 16 were deleted in their entirety. In fact, everything about his life after 1947 had been removed on grounds of national security."

I have found that several characters caught up in the assassination web worked in some area that became classified beginning in 1947, in particular John B. Hurt who I believe may have been the person that Lee Harvey Oswald attempted to contact the evening before he was murdered.

Win Scott seems to have been involved in "operation Stella Polaris" near the end of WWII. Information about the movement of Finnish crptologist from Finland to Sweeden, with the help of the Japanese, was intercepted by US Intelligence (Hurt seems to have been involved here). These cryptologist were working on breaking Soviet codes. While the information gained from this operation has always been officially downplayed we find that the 1947 date brings another important character onto the scene, Meridith Gardner, the man who the Warren Commission via the NSA via the CIA would assign to investigate potential intelligence links to Lee Harvey Oswald. I continue to ask myself, "Why does the common thread of Soviet Code breaking continue to pop up surrounding the assassination of JFK?"

John B. Hurt's work from 1947 till his retirement from the NSA is to this day still classified.

From an earlier post of mine:

"Mr. Gardner decided that merely decrypting VENONA messages was not enough if the decrypts could not be put to good use. He sent a memo, “Special Report #1,” to a small number of Army Security Agency (ASA) seniors in the summer of 1947, describing what sort of intelligence VENONA could provide. He also included samples of the material being recovered. Mr. Gardner’s report helped the Army’s leadership to recognize the value of VENONA, leading to cooperation between the ASA (later NSA) and the FBI in the identification of Soviet agents working in the United States."

Would the Code breaking angle be so important to US Intelligence that it would rally every agency to assist in covering up the true assassiantion story?

If so the conspirators would have had to be in a position to know that this would be done and to direct the Warren Commission to this end (ie John J. McCloy?).

Jim Root

[Michael Hogan]

Vince Palamara interviewed Marty Underwood (worked on planning of JFK's Texas tour--specifically his proposed stops to Houston and Austin) in October of 1992. Palamara writes:

According to the advance man (Underwood), Hoover hid the Lee Harvey Oswald file from the Secret Service.

Underwood stated that the CIA, FBI, and the mafia 'knew (JFK) was going to be hit' on 11/22/1963--this information came from his direct contacts with CIA officer

Win Scott

, the Mexico City Station Chief during Oswald's visit to that region. In addition, Underwood stated that, eighteen hours before Kennedy's murder, 'we were getting all sorts of rumors that the President was going ot be assassinated in Dallas, there were no ifs, ands, or buts about it.' When Underwood told JFK about these disturbing reports, the President merely said, 'Marty, you worry about me too much.'

The reason why Underwood opened up to me is best expressed by him. 'Everyone who had anything to do with Dallas in any way -- Kenny O'Donnell, The Secret Service-- they're practically all dead now. I just think people should know the truth.'

Palamara points out that as of that date (1992), except for Greer and Kellerman, many of the agents were still alive.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Michael Hogan

[William Kelly]

The Foul Foe – Chapter XXIV – by Ian Maxwell (believed to be a pen name of Mr. Win Scott.

p.268

on that morning.

In fact, Lee Harvey Oswald became a person of great interest to us during his 27 September to 2 October, 1963 period. He contacted the Soviet Embassy on at least four occasions, and once went directly from the office of Sra. Sylvia Tirado de Duran, a Mexican employee of the Cuban Consulate, to his friends, the Soviets. During the conversation with the Soviet official, he said, “I was in the Cuban Embassy --- and they will not give me a transit visa through Cuba until after I have my Soviet visa. This contact became important after the Warren Commission Report on the assassination of President Kennedy was published; for on page 777 of that report the erroneous statement was made that it was not known that Oswald had visited the Cuban Embassy until after the assassination.

Every piece of information concerning Lee Harvey Oswald was reported immediately after it was received to: U.S. Ambassador Thomas C. Mann, by memorandum; the FBI Chief of Mexico, by memorandum; and to my headquarters by cable; and included in each and every one of these

p.269

reports was the conversation Oswald had, so far as it was known. These reports were made on all his contacts with both the Cuban Consulate and with the Soviets.

Because we thought at first that Lee Harvey Oswald might be a dangerous potential defector from the U.S.A. to the Soviet Union, he was of great interest to us, so we kept a special watch on him and his activities. He was observed on all his visits to each of the two communist embassies; and his conversation with personnel of these embassies were studied in detail, so far as we could get them.

Soon after his arrival and first talk with the Soviets, we received a brief sketch on Lee Harvey Oswald from headquarters, in answer to our request for information on him. We learned that he had spent some two and one-half years in the USSR, had married a daughter of a Soviet, who worked for a Soviet intelligence/security service. Oswald and his Soviet wife had one child. Further, we learned that he, his wife and child were given permission to leave the Soviet Union for the U.S.A. --- an unusual fact and on the face of it suspicious, when it is known that USSR builds walls and that they

p. 270

use every means available to them to hold all in habitants (no matter how miserable and unhappy these individuals may be) inside the Soviet “paradise.” Further, it is known that anyone allowed to associate with a foreigner has to get prior KGB approval; and, most certainly, both Oswald and Marina had to have KGB permission to leave the USSR.

Further, we leare3nd from headquarters that, after the years in the USSR, Oswald visited the Embassy of the U.S.A. in Moscow; and an officer --- who failed to use his head at all --- gave Oswald an American passport and saw that the U.S. Government helped Oswald financially to return to the U.S.A. with his Soviet wife and child.

Subsequently, it was learned that U.S. Immigration officials were ordered to allow Oswald (who had rudely and insultingly renounced his U.S. citizenship at the U.S. Embassy in Moscow) and Marina be allowed to enter the U.S.A.

Not long after arriving in the U.S.A. from Moscow, Oswald showed his true colors by joining and becoming a

p.271

leader of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New Orleans, Louisiana. The Fair Play for Cuba Committee is and was a communist front organization.

In New Orleans, Oswald worked openly for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee; and I have a recording of one of his appearances on television in that city, an appearance in which he spoke out strongly for communist dictator Fidel Castro Ruz and communism and strongly chastised the U.S.A. Oswald made no secret at all of his dissatisifaction with President Kennedy and his anti-Castro policies.

Above all, Oswald visits at both the Communist Cuban Embassy and the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City, during his brief five-day stay in September-October 1963, are, together with what is known of what took place during these visits, sufficient to make him a suspect agent, acting on behalf of the Soviets, in several things, possibly including the assassination of President Kennedy. When one studies the conversations Oswald is known to have had with officials of both these embassies of communism, it is evident that there are sufficient data for at least a suspicion that Oswald worked for the Soviets.

p. 272

As stated above, Oswald is known to have visited both the Soviet Embassy and the Cuban Consulate in Mexico City and to have had several conversations with officers of the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City and with employees of the Cuban Consulate. The Cuban Embassy and Consulate are only two blocks distance from the Embassy of the USSR. Oswald had a long and argumentative conversation with a Mexican girl (Syulvia Tirado de Duran) who worked in the consular section of the Embassy; and, because of arguments with her and her superior, Eusebio Azcue, he got hopelessly entangled in the massive red tape of these two communist bureaucracies.

Oswald told a high-ranking officer of the Soviet Embassy that that officer should have had word from the Soviet Embassy in Washington about his visit and its purpose, after he had spelled out his full name, slowly and carefully, for this Soviet. He further told this Soviet that he should know that Oswald, his wife and child wanted to go to the Crimea, urgently; and that he (Oswald) had learned that he would have to go by way of Cuba. Oswald was then directed to the Cuban Embassy by

p. 273

the Soviets, who told Oswald that he would need a Cuban transit visa.

These visits and conversations are not hearsay; for persons watching these embassies photographed Oswald as he entered and left each one; and clocked the time he spent on each visit. The conversations are also known to have taken place, including the one in which he told the Soviet to whom he was talking that he should have heard, received a message, from the Soviet Embassy in Washington, indicating obviously that a Soviet Embassy official in Washington had offered to help Oswald.

While he was in the Cuban Consulate, in Sylvia Tirado de Duran’s office, Oswald decided to ask the help of a Soviet Embassy official in convincing the Cubans that they should give Oswald a transit visa through Cuba, even before he had his Soviet visa. This, he did.

Oswald got disgusted at the wait required by the Cubans, who had to send a cable to Havana requesting clearance for a transit visa for him. The reply, on about 15 October 1963, days after Oswald had returned to U.S.A., confirmed that no Cuban transit visa could be granted to Oswald until after he had received

p. 274

a Soviet visa.

Oswald boarded Bus No. 340 of Transportea Frontera at 08:30 hours on Wednesday, 2 October and arrived in Larado, Texas, at about 13:35 hours on 3 October 1963. His trip to Mexico had been a failure. He had been unable to get either of the two required visas; but, he did not blame the Soviets. He wrote a letter to the Soviet Embassy in Washington during October 1963 blaming the Cubans for his failure.

Why did Oswald wish to return urgently to the USSR? What did he plan to do in the U.S.A. after his return from Mexico, which would make such a trip necessary? The answer could lie in his actions of 23 November 1963.

Edited September 4, 2006 by William Kelly

[Chuck Robbins]

Also, has anyone seen the backs of the mystery man photos? Win says the visit dates are stamped upon them. (Chuck Robbins)

Chuck,

This is not exactly what you are after but it comes from an Agency photo mounting sheet which was put together for the Mexico City mystery man.

FWIW.

James

That October 25th, 1963 date certainly is an eye opener.

Naturally, I expect to be told by someone that it must have been a typo.

Going back to my earlier post, of Win's letter to "J.C.", isn't it curious that he wrote "a certain person who is known to you" instead of writing Oswald?

Can anyone refresh my memory regarding the Identity of this J.C.?

[Chuck Robbins]

The Foul Foe – Chapter XXIV – by Ian Maxwell (believed to be a pan name of Mr. Win Scott.

p.268

Subsequently, it was learned that U.S. Immigration officials were ordered to allow Oswald (who had rudely and insultingly renounced his U.S. citizenship at the U.S. Embassy in Moscow) and Marina be allowed to enter the U.S.A.

In a letter to his mother, dated Oct. 22, 1959, Oswald reassured his mother that he would not lose his citizenship.

He wrote that the only way he would lose his citizenship would be if he wanted to. He then wrote that he did not want to lose his citizenship.

So, I have to ask, did he ever actually renounce his citizenship or was this a cover story?

Consider that his mail was monitored by both the Soviets and our FBI.

The Soviets would have known almost immediately that he had no desire to become a Soviet subject.

They would then have to have concluded that any "suicide attempt", if one had ever truly been attempted, was simply an act.

Our FBI would have become aware that Oswald had no intention of spending the rest of his life in the Soviet Union.

Was this part of the reason why Hoover had asked the State Dept. for any information they had available on Oswald while Oswald was still in Russia?

I suspect that Oswald was more likely part of the exchange student program that Ruth Paine was once involved with. Remember, he initially said he was going to Europe to become a student.

The Oswald Russia defection story is, I believe, part fact - part fiction.

Speculation? For sure. Unbelievable? That's for you to decide for yourself.

[William Kelly]

Sorry about some of the typos, which I've corrected,

but the last line was not a typo:

"Why did Oswald wish to return so urgently to the USSR? What did he plan to do in the U.S.A. fter his return from Mexico, which woujld make such a trip a necessity? The answer could like in his acitons of 23 November 1963."

What did Oswald do on 23 November 1963 again?

BK

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

Going back to my earlier post, of Win's letter to "J.C.", isn't it curious that he wrote "a certain person who is known to you" instead of writing Oswald?

Can anyone refresh my memory regarding the Identity of this J.C.?

J.C. King, chief of CIA's Western Hemisphere division at the time.

[Greg Parker]

The Foul Foe – Chapter XXIV – by Ian Maxwell (believed to be a pan name of Mr. Win Scott.

p.268

Subsequently, it was learned that U.S. Immigration officials were ordered to allow Oswald (who had rudely and insultingly renounced his U.S. citizenship at the U.S. Embassy in Moscow) and Marina be allowed to enter the U.S.A.

In a letter to his mother, dated Oct. 22, 1959, Oswald reassured his mother that he would not lose his citizenship.

He wrote that the only way he would lose his citizenship would be if he wanted to. He then wrote that he did not want to lose his citizenship.

So, I have to ask, did he ever actually renounce his citizenship or was this a cover story?

Chuck, the answer is yes and no. Yes, he did verbally, but to make it legal he had to do it in writing - something he probably knew beforehand, given his expressed knowlwdge of other legalities whilst in the Soviet Union and after his return.

Consider that his mail was monitored by both the Soviets and our FBI.

The Soviets would have known almost immediately that he had no desire to become a Soviet subject.

They would then have to have concluded that any "suicide attempt", if one had ever truly been attempted, was simply an act.

Our FBI would have become aware that Oswald had no intention of spending the rest of his life in the Soviet Union.

Was this part of the reason why Hoover had asked the State Dept. for any information they had available on Oswald while Oswald was still in Russia?

I suspect that Oswald was more likely part of the exchange student program that Ruth Paine was once involved with. Remember, he initially said he was going to Europe to become a student.

Indeed, he wrote to the Albert Schweitzer College from Moscow reaffiming his intention to attend. If the college application had been a ruse, why continue it from Moscow?

I think the college deal was initially for real - a reward for services rendered; that being delivery of technical information (probably on soon-to-be outdated radar technology) via microdots on an official document - like say a birth certificate. This would have been part of a back-channel information sharing as an adjunct to sanctioned sharing through programs like the International Geophysical Year (IGY). Oswald, btw, was given the USMC classification code = to "courier" after enlistment. In normal circumstances, he should have been assigned a job in the Marines commensurate with that experience. Instead, he ends up in radar school, despite a poor math result in his entry level test, loss of hearing in one ear, and no prior experience or qualifications in that area.

The student exchange program became a high priority due to the Sputnik launch - which in turn was a result of the IGY. Another offshoot of this was the US Project Vanguard which sought Freedom of Space - a euphamistic way of calling for the right to use overflights for spying missions. Percival Brundage - Ike's Director of Budgets was deeply involved with both Project Vanguard AND the Albert Schweitzer College.

The Oswald Russia defection story is, I believe, part fact - part fiction.

Speculation? For sure. Unbelievable? That's for you to decide for yourself.

Unbelievable? Not at all.

Edited September 5, 2006 by Greg Parker

[JL Allen]

I have long thought that Charles Brehm, who was one of the very close eye-witnesses to the "kill-shot" area of the motorcade - bears a striking resemblance to the Mexico City "Oswald impostor" and to the Marine in the forefront of the 1959 Marine photo with Roscoe White. The bald-spot - the angular eyebrows and puffy eyelids - the shape of the nose and chin (chin area damaged in Marine photo) - the smallish forearms and hands - the hairline at the temples and the distinctive receding hairline. Also, both Brehm and the Mexico impostor seem to slant their sideburns in the opposite direction of what most men do. The sideburns seem to slant down towards the back of the head - instead of slanting down towards the front of the face. I believe it was John Dolva who once stated that Brehm had worked in Army intelligence (I believe it was...) - and was worthy of a closer scrutiny with regard to his pre-assassination activities.

Edited September 28, 2006 by JL Allen

[William Kelly]

No. Not even close. The photo taken in Mexico is of a person of Slavic descent.

What makes you think he's Slavic? A real source, or high cheekbones?

It's a shame on all researchers that this person remains unidentified.

BK

[Robin Finn]

The surveillance logs that accompanied the photographs identified him as Unidentified American Male.From observation at a distance,how could the Mexicans manning the surveillance posts have ascertained his nationality? Given that he also visited the Cuban Embassy in October,I'm sure someone in the station must have at least made an attempt at identification.

[Jack White]

The surveillance logs that accompanied the photographs identified him as Unidentified American Male.From observation at a distance,how could the Mexicans manning the surveillance posts have ascertained his nationality? Given that he also visited the Cuban Embassy in October,I'm sure someone in the station must have at least made an attempt at identification.

His identity was probably known because he probably

was an agent involved with LHO. He looks very much

like a Marine in a photo found in LHO's belongings.

Roscoe White is in the same photo.

Jack

[James Richards]

It's a shame on all researchers that this person remains unidentified. (Bill Kelly)

Gerry Hemming and another independent source who wishes to remain anomymous have identified this man as Mario Tauler Sague. I believe they are correct.

James