John J. McCloy

[Jim Root]

Prior to the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor very few people knew of the existance of Friedman's group of Codebreakers working within the Old Munitions Building in Washington DC. Under the direction of the Army Signal Corp the "Magic" intercepts were arguably (along with the development of the Atomic Bomb) the most guarded secretes of World War II.

Of the handful of persons (some suggest less than one dozen) who were allowed access to this infromation in pre December 1941, John J. McCloy's (future Warren Commissioner) name stands out. Brought into the War Department by Secretary Stimson, McCloy was tasked with the development of a modern intelligence organization for the Army. His career in government would become of historic interest for many reasons.

McCloy was a primary player in the relocation of Japanese Americans during the months following the attack on Pearl Harbor (as was Earl Warren). In 1981 and again in 1984 McCloy testified before Congress about his role in the decission making process associated with this relocation. His testimony in 1984 suggested that, based upon "Magic" intercepts, Japanese-Americans might belong to organized cells designed to spy on the United States. If nothing else this admission underlines the fact that McCloy was aware of and reading the "Magic" intercepts which were translated from Japanese by none other than John B. Hurt.

John B. Hurt was a member of the Magic team whose name I came accross inpendently while researching the military career of Maj. Gen. Edwin A. Walker then again (years later) while researching the career of General Maxwell Taylor.

It seems that John J. McCloy is also, in perhaps a very significant way, associated with this same John B. Hurt.

Coincidence?

Jim Root

[John Simkin]

John Jay McCloy is indeed an interesting figure. McCloy was president of the World Bank (1947-49) before replacing Lucius Clay, as High Commissioner for Germany. In 1951 he controversially ordered the release from prison of German industrialists such as Alfried Krupp and Friedrich Flick that had been convicted of serious war crimes at Nuremberg.

After leaving Germany in 1953 McCloy was chairman of the Chase Manhattan Bank (1953-60) and the Ford Foundation (1958-65). He was also an arms advisor to President John F. Kennedy and was largely responsible for the U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency.

Why did he arrange the release of war criminals like Krupp and Flick? They were both extremely wealthy men.

With the help of his American lawyer, Earl J. Carroll, Krupp's property, valued at around 45 million, and his numerous companies were also restored to him. Within a few years of his release Krupp's company was the 12th largest corporation in the world.

By 1955 Flick owned over 100 companies with an annual turnover of two billion dollars. Flick was reported to be the richest man in Germany and the fifth-richest man in the world.

I have wondered if Krupp and Flick purchased their freedom from McCloy. Was this money then used to fund right-wing covert activities? After the end of the Marshall Plan the CIA was short of money for carrying out these activities (people like Frank Wisner and Richard Bissell had got most of this money after the war by taking it from Marshall Plan funds).

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAmccloyJ.htm

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWkruppA.htm

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERflickF.htm

[Shanet Clark]

Great stuff John, this guy is a real conspirator.

John J. McCloy was also the lead attorney for the Oil Cartel, or Seven Sisters.

He lobbied the Federal Government and other international interests for the good of the Mobil Gulf Texaco Esso group. (That in Samson, Seven Sisters 1977)

What we are really talking about is large scale domestic and foreign NAZI rapproachemant. The Lucius Clay to John J. McCloy handoff was at the height of illegal infiltration and exfiltration of OLD NAZIS.

An ugly tale but only too true, the official Army History I read in the early nineties spelled out operation DUSTBIN where patents were subject to industrial espionage and US military confiscation, ASHCAN, where scientists were de briefed, and brought to work in the corporate, university and military labs in the states.

The whole operation was usually called PAPERCLIP, and you can see how easily and often it was abused (if you accept it was legitimate at all).

The debriefing and political de-Nazification process held sometimes had to make way for intelligence and military security "Exceptions"

An otherwise guilty Nazi would have some anti-communist files, or have a connection to heavy industry, a coal gasification plan or a nuclear equation, and he would pass throug interrogation and political screening under ASHCAN or DUSTBIN. Once the program got rolling, guys like McCloy, Wisner or Alan Dulles could send through agents with the murkiest records and wretched prospects.

McCloy had oversight of this.

The worst aspect was that the agencies and corporations like GULF and DUPONT had the Nazis working for them in the 1950s and 1960s. General John Vilikashvili's father came through in this program.

Numbers? More material is coming out about PAPERCLIP/DUSTBIN

750 used to be the high number the Army would admit to in the War College papers. Bo Gritz claimed 20,000 old Nazis came to the states.

I do know that AGFA BAYER GAF BASF HOESCHT

the combine known in the Weimar and Nazi era as IG FARBEN

was rescuscitated rapidly and the germans went back to chemical industry parity with British ICI and US DUPONT NEMOURS

I see old Nazis here in this drug and farm chemical home product industry

and especially in engineering, specifically defense engineering.

Was it linked to Dallas? Dulles and McCloy's world view was so bent by Berlin aand the OPERATION PAPERCLIP, I think that their vision of executive power and intelligence prerogatives made Dallas thinkable...............

John Jay McCloy is indeed an interesting figure. McCloy was president of the World Bank (1947-49) before replacing Lucius Clay, as High Commissioner for Germany. In 1951 he controversially ordered the release from prison of German industrialists such as Alfried Krupp and Friedrich Flick that had been convicted of serious war crimes at Nuremberg.

After leaving Germany in 1953 McCloy was chairman of the Chase Manhattan Bank (1953-60) and the Ford Foundation (1958-65). He was also an arms advisor to President John F. Kennedy and was largely responsible for the U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency.

Why did he arrange the release of war criminals like Krupp and Flick? They were both extremely wealthy men.

With the help of his American lawyer, Earl J. Carroll, Krupp's property, valued at around 45 million, and his numerous companies were also restored to him. Within a few years of his release Krupp's company was the 12th largest corporation in the world.

By 1955 Flick owned over 100 companies with an annual turnover of two billion dollars. Flick was reported to be the richest man in Germany and the fifth-richest man in the world.

I have wondered if Krupp and Flick purchased their freedom from McCloy. Was this money then used to fund right-wing covert activities? After the end of the Marshall Plan the CIA was short of money for carrying out these activities (people like Frank Wisner and Richard Bissell had got most of this money after the war by taking it from Marshall Plan funds).

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAmccloyJ.htm

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWkruppA.htm

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERflickF.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited May 3, 2005 by Shanet Clark

[Jim Root]

Shanet and John

I am also intrigued by John J. McCloys association with Maxwell Taylor during the Italian operations during WWII. It is at this time that the State Department is forced to admit that they were unprepared for instituting civil control over the vast amout of occupied Italy. The Army, with McCloy at the helm, was in negotiations (in many cases led by Maxwell Taylor) with members of the former facist regime to assure the domestic tranquility necessary to support the movement of needed war materials through occupied territory. This "need" to influence local politics would continue throughout the remainder of the 20th Century.

Taylor is again found in a working relationship with McCloy in the post war administration of occupied Germany. These two tennis players were in a position to become very tight associates during this period of time and to make some very influential contacts.

Within the Kennedy administration we find this 20 year working relationship developing further.

It is this note, written by McCloy to Edwin Walker shortly after the attack on Walker had occurred, that first stirred my interest in McCloy:

McCloy sent a two page reply to Walker dated June 12, 1963

My dear General:

I received through the mail the other day a copy of your resignation from the Association of Graduates of the United States Military Academy, prompted by my selection for the Colonel Thayer Award for this year.

You are a graduate of the Academy and for you to resign because a group of graduates duly selected to make an award and did so according to their best judgment, in a manner which resulted in an award to me, seems a rather fantastic expression of your disapproval of what you term "new frontier policy" as contrasted to the traditions of West Point.

Whether my selection was deserved or not, I was very much warmed by it. I was in the regular service in World War I, here and in France. I served as The Assistant Secretary of War during World War II. All during this period and since, I have been closely associated with graduates of the Academy and among them are my warmest friends. I am also very familiar with your very fine record in World War II and in Korea and I had been distressed that a leader of your qualifications should have been lost to the service, whatever the reason.

I have served the country according to my lights and opportunities, just as you have according to yours. I very much doubt that I have ever been less concerned with the security of the country than you.

I was called in form abroad in the Cuban emergency to express my views as to what should be done in regard to the presence of missiles in Cuba. I did so and I think no one misunderstood my position. Thereafter, I was asked to arrange with the Russians for the removal of the missiles. This I did and I also arranged for the removal of the bombers, though they were not part of the original agreement -- both under condidtions far better for the security of the country, in my judgment, than the form of United Nations inspection which was originally contemplated. Apart from this, I have had nothing whatever to do with Cuban policy, either under President Kennedy or General Eisenhhower. I have not been what you term a "New Frontiersman" in the sense that I have been a Republican all my life and I was born in the last century, not this one.

All this is written to you not to justify my selection, in any sense, but to urge you to reconsider your resignation from your own Graduate Association on any account with which I am Concerned. I suggest that you tell whomever you want, as vigourously as you care to, that, in your opinion, I do not deserve the Award, but to sever your relations with the Graduates of West Point on this account, though I recognize in the last analysis it is entirely your own business, does seem to me to be a hasty and perhaps ill-advised action.

Sincerely,

John J. McCloy

Major General Edwin A. Walker

4011 Turtle Creek Boulevard

Dallas 19, Texas

P.S. In the possibility that it might be of some interest to you, I am sending

to you herewith a copy of the remarks I made tot he Cadets at the time of

Award.

As simple as the contents of this letter seems, it is curious that within five months these two correspondents would be playing a role in explaining away the assassination of JFK.

Jim Root

Edited May 3, 2005 by Jim Root

[Pat Speer]

Having recently read McCloy's HSCA testimony, along with much of the Executive Session testimony, I must admit I now believe that McCloy and Dulles were both committed patriots trying to do a good job. They may have been wrong, and Dulles may have tried to save the CIA some embarrassment, but I don't think they set out to frame Oswald from the get-go. The same can not be said for the supposedly liberal and just Earl Warren, who believed Oswald was guilty until proven innocent and was undeserving of the best evidence one would expect to be used at trial.

This switch in attention on my part from Dulles and McCloy over to Warren accompanies my switch from suspecting a right-wing establishment cabal was behind the assassination, to thinking it was just dirty politics as usual. I now suspect LBJ was somehow involved, and Warren was his man on the Commission. The behavior of Hoover and the FBI is also suspect, particularly in their reluctance to read the autopsy report or inspect the autopsy photos before writing a report which they'd hoped the WC would rubber stamp. When one remembers that the Katzenbach memo was written after he'd had a long discussion with Hoover, and this was written before Oswald's ties to Ruby were even investigated, it becomes clear the FBI planned on convicting the dead Oswald in the eyes of the American people, without actually doing an investigation.

In short, while I believe there's substantial evidence for a deliberate cover-up perpetrated by Johnson and Hoover, this cover-up did not necessarily extend into the WC beyond Warren. McCloy may have been alright.

Edited May 5, 2005 by Pat Speer

[Tim Gratz]

A very interesting post, Pat!

As I am sure you are aware, it was Robert Kennedy who encouraged LBJ to appoint Dulles to the Warren Commission. I agree with you that Dulles was a patriot but it is certainly true that he withheld from the Warren Commission his knowledge of the CIA plots against Castro.

[Pat Speer]

As I am sure you are aware, it was Robert Kennedy who encouraged LBJ to appoint Dulles to the Warren Commission.  I agree with you that Dulles was a patriot but it is certainly true that he withheld from the Warren Commission his knowledge of the CIA plots against Castro.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was what I meant about protecting the CIA from embarrassment While it's true that knowing of the CIA plots would have changed the course of the WC's investigation, it's also understandable how Dulles and Helms might wish to sit back and wait and see if the assassination attempts were actually relevant.

That Al Rosen of the FBI, in charge of the basic facts of the case for the FBI's investigation, expressed no interest in the autopsy report or the autopsy photos, and that Earl Warren, after okaying Dr. Humes' inspection of the autopsy photos in Executive Session, changed his mind without discussing it with the other members...now THAT's what I find suspicious. Despite the built-in excuse that they were afraid of Bobby blah blah blah, the testimony of Katzenbach and the memos of Specter reveal that Bobby had no problem with anyone viewing the photos if it helped with the case. That the Kennedy family deeded the materials to the National Archives along with other WC evidence, even though the photos were never officially part of its investigation, is indicative that the Kennedy family NEVER actively fought the use of the photos, and that Rosen/Hoover and Warren were either being OVERLY OVERLY sensitive, or were using .the Kennedy family's tragedy as a means to avoid uncomfortable facts. There is reason to suspect the latter.

[Jim Root]

Pat

I was very happy to read your post and your remarks were, I believe, on the money!

"Having recently read McCloy's HSCA testimony, along with much of the Executive Session testimony, I must admit I now believe that McCloy and Dulles were both committed patriots trying to do a good job. They may have been wrong, and Dulles may have tried to save the CIA some embarrassment, but I don't think they set out to frame Oswald from the get-go. The same can not be said for the supposedly liberal and just Earl Warren, who believed Oswald was guilty until proven innocent and was undeserving of the best evidence one would expect to be used at trial."

If you follow the breakdown of attendance at the hearings you find these three men attended (and directed) a majority of the meetings. It can be assumed, therefore, that they had the most influence. Reading further you can find that on substance issues (for example the selection of a lead council) Warren was easily swayed to go along with the McCloy - Dulles cabal. These dynamics led me to research the historical relationship of these three men. What I found surprised me and leads me to speculate along the same lines that you seem to be traveling with a little different twist.

First: Mccloy plays a pivotal role in both of these person’s careers. In the case of Warren - McCloy we find them coming together in early 1942 and the relocation of the Japanese to internment camps. Support for Warren to become Governor of California, support for Warren to be the vice-presidential nominee with Dewy in 48, support for a Warren appointment to the Supreme Court and (in an interesting twist) support for the Warren Court decisions on racial integration (something McCloy had authored and pushed through for the military).

Second: McCloy was in charge of military intelligence during WWII. While Donovan led the OSS, Donovan was subordinate to General McCloy (yes General). McCloy kept key OSS men in place through the development of the National Security Act and engineered the rise of Dulles to the top leadership position within the CIA.

Third: Dulles was a Kennedy family associate and before the 1960 election is said to have assured Joe Kennedy that his son would be the next president. In hindsight a rather provocative thing for the head of the CIA to say to the wealthy father of a presidential hopeful while working within an administration where the Vice President was also a candidate. But perhaps not so surprising when people like General Maxwell Taylor are bailing on the Eisenhower administration because of a perceived softness on communism.

Fourth: Dulles brother (John Foster) was a primary supporter and speechwriter for the Dewy - Warren ticket in 48 and was also a Warren supporter for the Supreme Court.

My speculation is that Warren was a "go to guy" that would, in reality, loyally do whatever he was told to do by the powers that surrounded him. His life is not a life that is philosophically consistent.

All of which leads me to a conclusion that McCloy is the real leader of this trio. McCloy, tennis buddy, of Maxwell Taylor. McCloy, who worked with Maxwell Taylor as the Army developed Civil Military control techniques in Italy during WWII. McCloy who with General Taylor administered occupied Germany. And McCloy who along with General Taylor was brought into the Kennedy administration and put into a key position dealing with global survival.

Interesting thread!

Jim Root

Edited May 5, 2005 by Jim Root

[Pat Speer]

Jim, I know this is off-topic, but has your investigation of Walker and pals in Greece bled into the murder of George Polk in 1948?

[Jim Root]

Pat

Re: George Polk case

It has never come up as a topic of research for me to investigate. A couple of names/thoughts that come up are of interest. William Donovan, former leader of the OSS who was brushed aside in the development of the new National Security Council structure of 1948 got involved, why?

"Polk had been critical not only of the Greek government but also of the newly released Truman Doctrine which made defeating the Communists in Greece a priority. In an article published in Harper's in December 1947, Polk called the $300 million in aid to Greece "a poor investment." Most importantly, Polk claimed, the money was being terribly misused. Indeed, immediately before his murder, Polk, in an interview with Constantine Tsaldaris, the head of the Royalist Party, threatened to expose Tsaldaris' illegal bank accounts in the United States. Polk's widow, Rea Polk, later claimed: "I am surprised he lived for three days after that interview." Tamiment Library/Robert F. Wagner Labor Archives

The highlighted portion could attach to Walker's position in the Pentagon where he was "running the Greek desk." The Tuman doctrine was not without its critics in 1948 (Amoung whom were Donovan supports and "left leaning" groups). Any revelations about how "intelligence funds" were being laundered during this early period of operations by the NSC could have been objectionable and perhaps even considered a threat to national security.

Interesting groups of people we deal with.

Jim Root

[Pat Speer]

I came across a book on the Polk case in a used bookstore and I suspect it may tie in with some of the characters you've been looking at.

Polk was an American journalist critical of the right wing who was murdered in 1948 in Greece. Ultimately, a Greek journalist confessed to leading Polk into a trap, whereby Polk was murdered by communist rebels. The man who confessed cried in court. After his release a decade later, he claimed he'd been beaten and co-erced into his confession, and was widely believed.

Donovan had been hired by a group of newsmen, including Walter Lippman and William Paley, to investigate the murder. The author of the book The Polk Conspiracy, Kati Marton, gained access to some of Donovan's papers on his investigation, and was able to conclude from them that Polk had been murdered by the Greek right-wing, and that Donovan, true to his old CIA buddies, pretended not to find anything.

Anyhow, was Walker in Greece in May, 1948? If so, the blame the commie scam may have received a test-run on Polk. (and a second test during the Acardi trial, and a third test with the assassination of Castillo-Armas.)

Edited May 6, 2005 by Pat Speer

[Stan Wilbourne]

All of which leads me to a conclusion that McCloy is the real leader of this trio.  McCloy, tennis buddy, of Maxwell Taylor.  McCloy, who worked with Maxwell Taylor as the Army developed Civil Military control techniques in Italy during WWII.  McCloy who with General Taylor administered occupied Germany.  And McCloy who along with General Taylor was brought into the Kennedy administration and put into a key position dealing with global survival.

Jim, so who did McCloy work for in 1963?

I heard Donald Gibson interviewed not too long ago. He said the fact of who ordered the Kennedy murder we may never know with certainity. We can, he said, know who they sent to cover it up. They sent Allen Dulles and John McCloy.

Who were the real masters of those two powerful men in 1963? That may take you to the very heart of the conspiracy that killed John Kennedy.

[Tim Gratz]

Stan wrote:

I heard Donald Gibson interviewed not too long ago. He said the fact of who ordered the Kennedy murder we may never know with certainity. We can, he said, know who they sent to cover it up. They sent Allen Dulles and John McCloy.

Gee, then just as Cain killed Abel it must have been Bobby who killed Jack!

Since it was Bobby who persuaded LBJ to put Dulles on the Warren Commission.

What Dulles covered up in part was the CIA plots to kill Castro as well as Operation Mongoose, either of which could have motivated Fidel to kill JFK. While it is debated whether the Kennedys knew about the assassination plots, Operation Mongoose was definitely their operation. So RFK certainly had an interest in "covering up" some of the anti-Castro operations. And he could very well have been honestly concerned that his anti-Castro operations might have backfired and led to his brother's death.

In addition, RFK may have wanted to limit any investigation to protect some of the secrets of Camelot. Finding the real conspirators would not have brought his brother back, but a full investigation may have destroyed his brother's legacy. In fact, I regret that some of the "dark secrets" of Camelot came out and so far anyway without resolving the case. Had I been in RFK's position, I might well have made the same decision he did: protect the president's legacy as the first priority.

Edited May 6, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Pat Speer]

I don't think Bobby picked anybody to be on the Warren Commission; the only source we have that Bobby picked Dulles and McCloy is Johnson, and Johnson also claimed it was Bobby's idea he be sworn in in Dallas, when all the evidence points to that as a lie. I suspect Johnson picked Dulles and McCloy and ran them by Bobby, same as he did with Hoover, and Bobby said something like "I respect their integrity" or some such thing, and thereafter Johnson told everyone they were Bobby's choices. There is no evidence that either man had private dealings with RFK or even discussed the assassination with him. There is no evidence they were covering anything up under Bobby's orders. The only man involved in the WC who had a personal relationship with Bobby was Katzenbach, and his testimony reflects that Bobby was totally depressed and completely removed from the investigation, numb. My 6 year old nephew had a heart attack and died on a playground in front of his friends, so I've spent time around people numbed by pain. Those who think Bobby was in any shape to conduct any kind of cover-up should understand this; the man could barely function. He never even read the Warren Report.

[Jim Root]

Stan

Perhaps the better question would be, "Who would know that "they" would send anybody to clover it up?"

I did not begin reading the Warren Report as a skeptic but became one the more I read. As I said in an earlier post there were, in my opinion, two seperate crimes: the assassination and the cover up. Because the second happened as a result of the first does not mean that the same people participated in both as most people tend to believe.

If Oswald had been used as an intelligence asset by any department of the US government there would, arguably, be a reason to cover up that relationship in the same way that a group involved in a coup would want the assassination covered up. It is, in my belief, that in the first case you would have a McCloy and a Dulles willing to participate out of a duty to the nation while in the second case I believe they would be the last people that would want to be involved.

This is what is so intriguing about their participation. Dulles and McCloy were Cold Warriors, as such there participation is perdictable.

Perhaps a slanted historical perspective can be given that could help to explain my position. After the bombing of Coventry during World War II Winston Churchill had his picture taken in the ruins of the famous cathederal. Years later, after the death of Churchill, we learn that there is a good possibility that the British had information (because they were reading the German Codes) that could have been used to evacuate the city and save thousands of civilian lives. Problem was, if they did evacuate the city the Germans might have realized their codes were compromised. I believe that by having his picture taken at that moment in time, Churchill was allowing history to know that it was his decision to keep the information from the public for the greater good of the war effort and history would pass a positive judgement upon him.

Knowledge of the codes or no knowledge of the codes the bombing was going to occur and the war was going to continue. Loss of the "Ultra Secrete" could have ment loss of the war. The Warren Commission could not change the fact that Kennedy had been assassinated. Perhaps they, or at least two, believed they could still use the event to protect a front in the Cold War.

Was this action predictable? Perhaps by the "big fish."

Jim Root