Headshot Theory

[Al Carrier]

Dr. Lattimer's skull test was his proof of a shot from the rear and it only proved that it could not occur. I will attempt to post it only to show this.

Let's keep in mind that all the damage was to the right side of the head. Impact and exit restricted to that region with the angle his head was facing shows only a flight path from left to right which would place the shot origin on the south end of the overpass/south knoll, as Sherry, myself and others have been showing.

The debris field within the skull cavity was minute in nature and was consistent with extrusions of lead out of the base of a FMJ bullet. An open based FMJ bullet will be squeezed upon impact such as this and the energy would compress the projectile and force the softer lead core out the base, leaving a trail of particles.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Al,

I've been intrigued with the South Knoll direction for quite some time now. It does a good job explaining certain aspects of the wound/event that other theories do not.

I've always been bothered by the angle of entry from the TSBD not leading to orbital/facial damage -- especially placing the entry wound there the WC has it. I've often felt that Z313, if it came from behind at all, came in at a much flatter angle. These angles cause problems, too. The SS car, with the agents on the board, might produce angle problems for many of rear-shot scenarios; moreso for lower angle variants (2nd floor Dal-Tex, etc).

The traditional GK position seems to explain the back+left motion, but the obvious lack of damage on the left hemisphere of JFK's skull creates obvious problems here, too.

The questions I have about South Knoll shots are twofold. Jackie leaned forward and at Z312/313, at least from Zapruder's angle, appears to block certain angles from the south. The second question is how the dent on the limo chrome can be explained.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Frank,

In regards to the chrome indentation on the windshield framework, see my post #15 under the "Single Bullet Trials" thread in regards to high shot impacts in regards to the gravitational pull factor. Now what is still unexplained in regards to this is the lack of severing of the chrome covering of the steel framework. An unobstructed flight/full velocity impact at this range would have had enough energy to fracture the chrome, as opposed to denting it. A fragmented bullet would need something to hit and impact at this angle, so that should be ruled out as there is nothing there for prior impact and the angle is still somewhat direct. The only thing I can see is that the bullet may have skipped off the steel rod that the bubble top attaches to, over the driver's seat. This would have slowed the bullet as much as 30% in velocity, down to roughly 1300fps and caused it to lose it's stability and create a greater energy loss on impact.

In regards to Jackie leaning forward, there still would have been a clear shot at the midline to right portion of JFK's head as far south as some fifty feet left of the south end of the overpass.

Al

[Robin Unger]

Dr. Lattimer's skull test was his proof of a shot from the rear and it only proved that it could not occur. I will attempt to post it only to show this.

Let's keep in mind that all the damage was to the right side of the head. Impact and exit restricted to that region with the angle his head was facing shows only a flight path from left to right which would place the shot origin on the south end of the overpass/south knoll, as Sherry, myself and others have been showing.

The debris field within the skull cavity was minute in nature and was consistent with extrusions of lead out of the base of a FMJ bullet. An open based FMJ bullet will be squeezed upon impact such as this and the energy would compress the projectile and force the softer lead core out the base, leaving a trail of particles.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Al,

I've been intrigued with the South Knoll direction for quite some time now. It does a good job explaining certain aspects of the wound/event that other theories do not.

I've always been bothered by the angle of entry from the TSBD not leading to orbital/facial damage -- especially placing the entry wound there the WC has it. I've often felt that Z313, if it came from behind at all, came in at a much flatter angle. These angles cause problems, too. The SS car, with the agents on the board, might produce angle problems for many of rear-shot scenarios; moreso for lower angle variants (2nd floor Dal-Tex, etc).

The traditional GK position seems to explain the back+left motion, but the obvious lack of damage on the left hemisphere of JFK's skull creates obvious problems here, too.

The questions I have about South Knoll shots are twofold. Jackie leaned forward and at Z312/313, at least from Zapruder's angle, appears to block certain angles from the south. The second question is how the dent on the limo chrome can be explained.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Frank,

In regards to the chrome indentation on the windshield framework, see my post #15 under the "Single Bullet Trials" thread in regards to high shot impacts in regards to the gravitational pull factor. Now what is still unexplained in regards to this is the lack of severing of the chrome covering of the steel framework. An unobstructed flight/full velocity impact at this range would have had enough energy to fracture the chrome, as opposed to denting it. A fragmented bullet would need something to hit and impact at this angle, so that should be ruled out as there is nothing there for prior impact and the angle is still somewhat direct. The only thing I can see is that the bullet may have skipped off the steel rod that the bubble top attaches to, over the driver's seat. This would have slowed the bullet as much as 30% in velocity, down to roughly 1300fps and caused it to lose it's stability and create a greater energy loss on impact.

In regards to Jackie leaning forward, there still would have been a clear shot at the midline to right portion of JFK's head as far south as some fifty feet left of the south end of the overpass.

Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Al.

Good to see you posting again.

Image showing the overpass looking towards the south knoll area.

Credit: Lee Forman.

Edited May 31, 2005 by Robin Unger

[Don Roberdeau]

Good Day All.... The 5:30 PM CST on 23NOV63 "Harper fragment"

discovered location --according to a DP map marked years later by

WILLIAM HARPER, himself-- was in the grass south of the Elm Street

south curbstone, 117' forward of President KENNEDY's Zf-313

location, to the left of the limousine facing direction at Zf-313, but

to the right of his head facing direction at Zf-313. (see professionally

surveyed DP map below)

Lee, possibly when you mentioned the 20' figure you were, instead, thinking of

the BREHM fragment --which landed about 26' behind President KENNEDY's

Zf-313 location, and to the left of his head facing direction. (see

professionally surveyed DP map below) I will say one thing, Lee, there was a

witness (cannot recall his name, but he was a DPD or Sheriif) who stated that

he disctinctly heard a woman shouting (paraphrasing) "They're shooting the

president from the bushes!!"

....The following is a genesis of BREHM's statements over the years, starting

with his first publicly recorded statement within minutes of the attack while

he was still standing within DP, to his statements in a 1988 interview as

quoted by SNEED.

IMHO, BREHM/BREHM's family/BREHM's earned military veteran benefits may have

been threatened (as several other witnesses have stated), yet, in reading his

statements over the years, almost every single one of them contains, at

least, one observation by the D-Day, World War II battles experienced U.S.

Army Ranger veteran that contradicts the warrenatti/posnerian theories

...Even with probably being threatened, BREHM continued to detail the

timestampings of what he saw and heard...

"(D)rehm (sic) seemed to think the shots came from in FRONT OF or BESIDE

the President." (my EMPHASIS..."FRONT" or "BESIDE" = self-evident)

----CHARLES F. BREHM quoted just minutes after the attack and while still

standing within Dealey Plaza ("Dallas Times Herald," 11-22-63, final edition)

After 11-22-63, and throughout the rest of his public life, BREHM, then,

publicly claimed that the shots that he remembered hearing

seemed to come from the Houston/Elm "i-n-t-e-r-s-e-c-t-i-o-n."

("intersection" buildings = Dal-Tex, County Records, and the TSBD)

(BREHM's 11-22-63 D.P.D. affidavit has, so far, "disappeared" from the

evidence... hmmmm)

"He was coming down the street and my five-year-old boy and myself were by

ourselves on the grass there on Commerce Street, and I asked Joe to wave to

him and Joe waved, and I waved--and the ma--the man----As he--as he was waving

back he was--he was----the shot rang out and he slumped down in his seat and

his wife reached up toward him and he was slumping down and the second shot

went off and it just--just knocked him down in the seat. ... Two shots....

... No sir, I did not see the man who did it. I--I----All I--all I did was

look in the mans' face when he was shot there and saw that expression on his

face and he grabbed himself and slide, and the second one whenever it went----

I'm positive it hit him--I hope it didn't--but I'm positive it hit him and he

went all the way down in the car, then they speeded up and I didn't know what

was going on so I just grabbed the boy and fell on him and hoped that there

wasn't a maniac around."

----CHARLES F. BREHM, recorded within an hour after the attack for tv and

radio (as documented in the Z-film the president did not start to wave until

Zf-174 (after the warrenatti-posnerian "magic-limbed-ricochet-tree" hid the

president from *anyone's* "lone nut" "snipers lair" view from Zf-160 to 208),

then BREHM remembered hearing "his" first shot --not necessarily others

first shot-- which also was the shot that first impacted the president--

while the president was waving after Zf-174)

In his above very emotional interview, I have wondered if when BREHM stammered

out the words "Two shots..." but did not add any details, if what BREHM was

telling us was "Two shots nearly simultaneously" as so many of the attack

witnesses, also, stated and supported.

"When the President's automobile was very close to him and he could see the

President's face very well, the President was seated, but was leaning forward

when he stiffened perceptibly at the same instant what appeared to be a rifle

shot sounded. According to BREHM, the President seemed to stiffen and come to

a pause when another shot sounded and the President appeared to be badly hit

in the head. Brehm said when the President was hit by the second shot, he

could notice the President's hair fly up, and then roll over to his side, as

Mrs. KENNEDY was apparently pulling him in that direction.

BREHM said that a third shot followed and that all three shots were relatively

close together. BREHM stated that he was in military service and he has had

experience with bolt-action rifles, and he expressed his opinion that the

three shots were fired just about as quickly as an individual can maneuver a

bolt-action rifle, take aim, and fire three shots.

BREHM stated he definitely knew that the President had been shot and he

recalled having seen blood on the President's face. He also stated that it

seemed quite apparent to him that the shots came from one of two buildings

back at the corner of Elm and Houston Streets."

----CHARLES F. BREHM statement to the FBI, 24NOV63 (3rd audible muzzle blast

or 3rd mechanically-suppress-fired bullet bow shockwave distinctly AFTER

the Zf-313 head explosion = self-evident)

"I saw a piece fly over in the area of the curb where I was standing. .... It

seemed to have come left, and back. .... Sir, whatever it was that I saw did

fall, both, in that direction, and, over into the curb there."

----CHARLES F. BREHM to MARK LANE during the 1966 assassination documentary

film, "Rush to Judgment" (a piece of anything is not going to "fly over"

unless it was caused to be trajected by a collision--in this case a bullet

fired from the front a micro-second after the already impacted Zf-312-to-313

bullet--impacting a micro-second after the headshot explosion....note also

that JEAN HILL warrenatti-testified that she was told by an "agent" that

during the attack another "agent" stationed in Dealey Plaza (even

though no known "agent" was ever, officially, stationed in Dealey Plaza) said

he saw a bullet kick up debris near HILL's feet...recall also that HARGIS was

quoted 11-22-63 by the "New York Daily News" stating, "...then, I saw the

president's head explode. Then, I felt something hit me, which could have been

concrete. I thought at first I might have been hit.") THAT simple 11-22-63

statement by HARGIS shatters the utter silliness by the

warrenatti apologists that HARGIS drove through the initial head explosion

blood cloud, and his driving through a blood cloud of very-small-sized,

airborn, blood droplets is what felt like concrete.

"After the car passed the building coming toward us, I heard a . . .

surprising noise, and [the President] reached with both hands up to the side

of his throat and kind of stiffened out . . . And when he got down in the area

just past me, the second shot hit which damaged, considerably damaged, the top

of his head. . . . That car took off in an evasive motion . . . and was just

beyond me when a third shot went off. The third shot really frightened me! It

had a completely different sound to it because it had really passed me as

anybody knows who has been in down under targets in the Army or been shot at

like I had been many times. You know when a bullet passes over you, the

cracking sound it makes, and that bullet had an absolute crack to it. I do

believe that that shot was wild. It didn't hit anybody. I don't think it could

have hit anybody. But it was a frightening thing to me because here was one

shot that hit him, obviously; here was another shot that destroyed his head,

and what was the reason for that third shot? That third shot frightened me

more than the other two, and I grabbed the boy and threw him on the ground

because I didn't know if we were going to have a 'shoot-'em-up' in this area."

----CHARLES F. BREHM to Larry Sneed, "No More Silence," 1988 (3rd audible

muzzle blast or 3rd mechanically-suppress-fired bullet bow shockwave

distinctly AFTER President KENNEDY's head already exploded at Zf-313 = self-evident....

Recall that several witnesses stated there was a noticeably distinct,

additional shot after President KENNEDY's head first exploded, the closest of

which, riding about 12'/13' behind the president, was documented by limousine

escort DPD cyclist CHANEY on 11-22-63 in a recorded tv interview when he

stated that the president was hit in the face with the 2nd blast or shockwave

--of 3 total blasts/shockwaves that CHANEY remembered hearing. Concurrent with

CHANEY's 1st remembered blast/shockwave CHANEY stated he looked at the

president and saw the president look over his left shoulder--which is an

excellent description --keeping in mind CHANEY was behind the president-- of

Zf-190 to 207 when President KENNEDY's waving hand fingers suddenly straighten

out in a slightly curving salute, his waving arm starts to fall down and

leftward, and concurrently with that the president also very rapidly snaps his

head from facing almost 90 degrees right at the crowd (Zf-195), to facing

forward (Zf-207))

....A few of many additional detailed considerations....

http://members.aol.com/droberdeau/JFK/DPth...RAJECTORIES.gif

http://members.aol.com/droberdeau/JFK/DPth...TORIESviews.gif

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/droberdeau/JFK/DPharperONLY.gif[/url]

....Welcome back, Al....you may have seen the following posted

previously, so, for the benefit of those who have not, the following details

that a south TOP sourced trajectory is possible, but only if the trajectory

passed above the chromed windshield frame, and, only if it passed between the

pushed-up limo sunvisors (or through the windshield as DPD cyclist ELLIS

stated he saw at Parkland), and barely missed CONNALLY (according to the 11-22-63

White House garage limo photos that were...shown...to us; that were

presented to us...of the sunvisors, chrome windshield frame, and glass

windshield put into evidence)....

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/limo...TEDforTOPSS.gif

Don Roberdeau

U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John" Plank Walker

Sooner, or later, the Truth emerges Clearly

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T ogether

E veryone

A chieves

M ore

"The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat

of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over

the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with

blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other

wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion

of the head."

"Yes, sir; I saw an opening in the back, about 6 inches below the neckline to

the right-hand side of the spinal column."

----CLINT HILL, Secret Service Agent, during his warrenatti testimony, 1964

Edited May 31, 2005 by Don Roberdeau

[Tim Gratz]

Outstanding post! (As always, Don.)

[James Richards]

Don,

Those map layouts you have created are amazing. Congratulations on some excellent work.

James

Edited May 31, 2005 by James Richards

[Don Roberdeau]

Good Day Robin.... Do you, or anyone else, have any photo(s) captured from the

TOP north sewer, looking east-north-east across the grassy knoll, towards

President KENNEDY's Zf-313 Elm Street location point?

My calculations show that from the TOP north sewer, President KENNEDY would

have first become visible/could have been targeted starting at circa Zf-

217/218.

From the TOP north sewer, none of the north grassy knoll 4 tree trunks, nor

HUDSON nor his 2 co-witnesses block a clear trajectory at President KENNEDY at

Zf-313.

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/DPtopNORTHassassin.gif

Don Roberdeau

U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John" Plank Walker

Sooner, or later, the Truth emerges Clearly

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/DP.jpg

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/ROSE...NOUNCEMENT.html

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/BOND...PINGarnold.html

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E veryone

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"A red-brown to black area of skin surrounds the wound, forming what is called

an abrasion collar. It was caused by the bullet's scraping the margins of the

skin on penetration and is characteristic of a gunshot wound of entrance. The

abrasion collar is larger at the lower margin of the wound, evidence that the

bullet's trajectory at the instant of penetration was slightly upward in

relation to the body."

- 07HSCA175 describing President KENNEDY's, theorized, not-completely-probed,

neck and back wounds

[Don Roberdeau]

Good Day Men....

Don Roberdeau

U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John" Plank Walker

Sooner, or later, the Truth emerges Clearly

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/DP.jpg

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/ROSE...NOUNCEMENT.html

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/BOND...PINGarnold.html

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/GHOS...update2001.html

T ogether

E veryone

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"We dare not forget today that we are the heirs of that first revolution. Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans--born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our ancient heritage--and unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this nation has always been committed, and to which we are committed today at home and around the world.

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

This much we pledge--and more."

---- President JOHN F. KENNEDY, 20JAN61 inaugural address

[Lee Forman]

Hi Don!

Your DP plat is incredible, and a valuable resource. I try out different scenarios and review other detail all the time.

Do you, or anyone else, have any photo(s) captured from the

TOP north sewer, looking east-north-east across the grassy knoll, towards

President KENNEDY's Zf-313 Elm Street location point?

I have one photo taken from back there in 2004 - but it's totally obscured. A difficult proposition today given the foliage. However, I believe I saw a study once where the fence posts were removed - maybe done in the 70s?

Lee, possibly when you mentioned the 20' figure you were, instead, thinking of

the BREHM fragment --which landed about 26' behind President KENNEDY's

Zf-313 location, and to the left of his head facing direction. (see

professionally surveyed DP map below) I will say one thing, Lee, there was a

witness (cannot recall his name, but he was a DPD or Sheriif) who stated that

he disctinctly heard a woman shouting (paraphrasing) "They're shooting the

president from the bushes!!"

Yes - I have seen this - originally I believed it may have been the bushes at the North Peristyle location, on the south side of Elm - but the DPD [Patrolman Joe Smith], who was directing traffic on Houston and ? Ran in the direction of the knoll after hearing the woman screaming about the bushes. Actually, still referring to the Harper fragment.

McAdams - one source on the Harper fragment being driven forward of the Limo at the time of the headshot.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/harper.htm

If you take the trajectory you have detailed on your excellent plat, from the west window on the 6th floor of the TSBD, and shorten it to the 'Pergola gardens' walled walkway area, that's where I am suggesting that the fatal headshot could have been fired from, as per the location of 'Army Man' in Croft.

Hope you don't mind my taking liberties with your DP plat.

Blue lines seek to roughly establish Croft's line of sight.

Red lines seem to roughly gauge a possible trajectory to z186 and z313.

- lee

[Robin Unger]

Good Day Robin.... Do you, or anyone else, have any photo(s) captured from the

TOP north sewer, looking east-north-east across the grassy knoll, towards

President KENNEDY's Zf-313 Elm Street location point?

My calculations show that from the TOP north sewer, President KENNEDY would

have first become visible/could have been targeted starting at circa Zf-

217/218.

From the TOP north sewer, none of the north grassy knoll 4 tree trunks, nor

HUDSON nor his 2 co-witnesses block a clear trajectory at President KENNEDY at

Zf-313.

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/DPtopNORTHassassin.gif

Don Roberdeau

U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John" Plank Walker

Sooner, or later, the Truth emerges Clearly

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/DP.jpg

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/ROSE...NOUNCEMENT.html

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/BOND...PINGarnold.html

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/GHOS...update2001.html

T ogether

E veryone

A chieves

M ore

"A red-brown to black area of skin surrounds the wound, forming what is called

an abrasion collar. It was caused by the bullet's scraping the margins of the

skin on penetration and is characteristic of a gunshot wound of entrance. The

abrasion collar is larger at the lower margin of the wound, evidence that the

bullet's trajectory at the instant of penetration was slightly upward in

relation to the body."

- 07HSCA175 describing President KENNEDY's, theorized, not-completely-probed,

neck and back wounds

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Don.

This is the best i have.

[Lee Forman]

Weigman frame...

Is that the same individual?

- lee

[Lee Forman]

Weigman frame...

Is that the same individual?

- lee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Attach this time?

[Lee Forman]

Weigman frame...

Is that the same individual?

- lee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Attach this time?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Bernice Moore]

""Do you, or anyone else, have any photo(s) captured from the

TOP north sewer, looking east-north-east across the grassy knoll, towards

President KENNEDY's Zf-313 Elm Street location point?""

Hi Don:

These may be of interest...

B..

[Bernice Moore]

Don:

Here is one other, the third is too big, to post....so will send by email.

B

[Bernice Moore]

Another....