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Shanet Clark

The Communication Breakdown

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This recent post in the "who had the Football" thread is by far the most important single posting I have read in this forum in a long time.

It starts with a quote from Ron Ecker, but the key material is by member Bernice Moore. I would like all members to read it and comment with additional facts and opinions........

QUOTE(Ron Ecker @ Jun 3 2005, 04:56 AM)

According to Manchester, Gearhart had the football, and he was not left behind at Parkland. Johnson and his men paid no attention to him (I'm sure Johnson knew exactly what was going on and that the Russians had nothing to do with it), but Gearhart took it upon himself to sit on a policeman's lap from Parkland to Love Field.

Manchester says that eyeglasses seen reflecting light from the rear in the photo of Johnson being sworn in are Gearhart's glasses.

Ron

**********************

Hi Ron:

When Gearhart was separated from Johnson, it would not necessarily have been accidentally...It could have been deliberately arranged by the military personnal at the upper level of the plot..They may not have trusted Johnson with the steel

30lb.. suitcase that held the key to a retaliatory attack, perhaps it was imperative that for the first few hours following the transfer of power, that the planners have complete control of all aspects...foreign and domestic.

It is hard to believe the United States was off guard in anyway, within the Pentagon

where total control was concentrated, the high military officials were in command,

they were aware, and prepared for any situation that might arise from foreign or

a domestic source...

In Bishop's book, it contains another revealing incident: "Officials at the Pentagon were calling the White House switchboard at the Dallas-Sheraton Hotel asking who was now in command. An Officer grabbed the phone and assured the Pentagon that Secretary of Defense Robert MacNamara and the Joint Chief of Staff ' are now the President".".......Perhaps because the assassination was on a need to know basis ,the party that called was a low echelon officer who was unaware of what was happening..It was interesting that the communication officer who took the phone to announce the transfer of power was a member of the Presidential party and was fully aware of what was taking place.....

Communications of all kinds seemed to have been deemed important by those who planned and carried out the assassination..Several strange incidents that involved communications in Dallas..Washington...and abroad occurred..that day...

They of course have been attributed to coincidence , but what are the odds.?

In Dallas the police radio was immobilized at 12.29 Channel One of the DP radio system was rendered inoperative when someone within the dept. keyed his radio microphone button for four minutes, making it impossible for any police communication from the kill zone during the critical moments...and immediately afterward.....Channel One was reserved that day for those officers in the security of the President..From 12.29 till 12.33 the only audible sound on the police audio tape is the rumbling of a motorcycle engine...In Dallas the press telephone within the motorcade was immobilized..At 12.34 the radiophone in the press car carrying the members of the wire services was rendered inoperative, also.....In fact a fight broke out between UPI's Merriman Smith and Jack Bell of the AP.Bell finally managed to grab it after Smith has issued the initial report that shots had been fired , but to Bell's dismay, the line inexplicably went dead..

In Washington there was a crucial breakdown of communications when the telephone system ,in the capital went out at approximately 12.33..pm..It was almost an hour before full telephone service resumed ..It was explained ,that it was due to overloaded phone lines, was the Pentagon affected by this shut down??

Abroad, a teletype machine aboard a military aircraft carrying the Cabinet members to Japan began chattering the first report that shots had been fired, there was a moment of panic ,fearing an international plot, and with codes and procedures for such and emergency,Sec. of State Dean Rusk and Press Sec. Pierre Salinger attempted to contact the White House for verification..The did reach the Situation Room but were prohibited from authenticating the data because the "official code book was missing"..from it's special place aboard the plane.

After a futile search the Sec of State was forced to break procedures with coded communications ,Rusk was forced to break the code and communicate with the WH in plain English..

This was not happenstance that the President, the Vice President and six members of the Cabinet were away from the centre of power on Nov.22/63.It seems as though it was by design that Sec. of State Dean Rusk, Treasury Sec. Douglas Dillon, Interior Sec. Stewart Udall, and Labor Sec.W.W.Wirtz, as well as other administration officials like Press Sec. Salinger, were trapped on an airplane over the Pacific at such a critical time..These men perhaps thought they represented the true power of the nation but by all authority that day it belonged to the powerful military chieftans deep within the Pentagon....

As an additive....

In Hawaii on Nov. 21/63 , the day before......shortly after lunch Honolulu time , U.S.Ambassador to South Vietnam Henry Cabot Lodge made a long distance call from the lobby of the Royal Hawaiian Hotel..Now this distinguished diplomat had acces to phones in privacy from his room or the military circuits at no cost....Yet he was seen, according to the Honolulu Star Bulletin, with a stack of quarters in his hand pitting coin after coin into a pay phone??

Mr.Lodge was in Honolulu for a nine hour summit conference on Nam with Sec. of Defence Robert McNamara ,Sec of State Dean Rusk, financial aid chief David E.Bell ,Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Maxwell D.Taylor, Admiral Harry D.Felt, and General Paul D.Harkins, then the Commander of U.S.Forces in Vietnam..

Lodge was the only person of the seven member policy-making body to stay at the Royal Hawaiian Hotel.....the others stayed in the military quarters.

This group of high level political and military policymakers had just decided to step-up military operations against communist insurgents in Nam.

This desicion was in Direct Conflict with Presidentt Kennedy's announced intention

of Oct.63..to withdraw 1000 U.S.military personnel from Sth.Vietnam, reducing U.S.troop strength there to approximately 14.500..

Three days later Lodge met with the new President and was instructed by LBJ to return to Vietnam and inform the Saigon government of the new U.S policy pf strong military support for South Vietnam..

But from Washington......on the afternoon of Nov. 22/63......somewhere high over the United States, the new President Lyndon Baines Johnson and the passengers aboard AF 1....received the news that the assassination had been performed by one individual and no conspriacy existed.....The news came not from the scene of the crime,Dallas.....but from Washington D.C....specifically, it came from either McGeorge Bundy or Commander Oliver Hallet in the Situation Room of the White House Communications Agency...........manned by military personnel and receiving much of it's information from the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) in the Pentagon.....

and Last but not least there was in the air over the U.S a mobile military force able to be thrown into action anywhere in the U.S where needed.......if trouble developed..The largest peacetime airlift in history had taken place, Operation Big Lift....had moved an entire combat division from Texas to Germany for thirty days just one month previous.....On the day of President Kennedy was killed, the last third of the returning troops were in the air at the time of the shooting...estimated to be a brigade combat team armed with personal weapons, which could have been deployed anywhere into action, in the nation on a very short notice.....if perhaps needed.....

But this was of course all coincidence, if not then it was an indication of the careful planning undertaken by the Military ......That day in Dallas.....

From:

The Day Kennedy Was Shot....Jim Bishop

Dallas Radio Tapes..11/22/63

The Death of a President....William Manchester

Forgive My Grief IV...Penn Jones

The Making of the President...Theodore White

Cover-Up.........Gary Shaw

B (Bernice Moore)

Thanks again.

This is the critical material pertinent to an authorized

EXECUTIVE SANCTION

:ph34r::hotorwot:blink::hotorwot:ph34r:

Edited by Shanet Clark

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Shanet

You know my thoughts concerning Taylor.

I find this intriguing:

"In Hawaii on Nov. 21/63 , the day before......shortly after lunch Honolulu time , U.S.Ambassador to South Vietnam Henry Cabot Lodge made a long distance call from the lobby of the Royal Hawaiian Hotel..Now this distinguished diplomat had acces to phones in privacy from his room or the military circuits at no cost....Yet he was seen, according to the Honolulu Star Bulletin, with a stack of quarters in his hand pitting coin after coin into a pay phone??"

Do you think Lodge was, perhaps, attempting to warn someone by passing on information that he had heard at this conference? The use of a public telephone, I would assume, could be more secure in this type of high stakes drama.

Jim Root

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This recent post in the "who had the Football" thread is by far the most important single posting I have read in this forum in a long time.

It starts with a quote from Ron Ecker, but the key material is by member Bernice Moore. I would like all members to read it and comment with additional facts and opinions........

This was not happenstance that the President, the Vice President and six members of the Cabinet were away from the centre of power on Nov.22/63.

It was indeed happenstance that the Cabinet members were away. They were traveling to a third annual joint Cabinet meeting with the Japanese. The first was held in November 1961 in Japan, the second was held in December 1962 in DC, and the third was to be held in November 1963 in Japan.

Surely the conspirators did not plan over two years in advance for the Cabinet to be away, by manipulating JFK in 1961 to start annual joint Cabinet meetings, to be held late each year, with Japan, and on a rotating basis so that the third year meant flying to Japan.

Ron

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The communication breakdown was evidence of civilian cabinet isolation, and the cabinet schedule may have influenced the timing of the sanction.

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Shanet, would the military have moved on Kennedy without approval? I guess I'm asking, did they have their masters as well?

This crime has always appeared to me to be the movement of absolute power. They didn't think they could get away with murdering JFK. They didn't hope they could away with it. They knew they could.

The Kennedy's feared a military takeover of the office of the president. Is this indeed what happened in 1963?

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This recent post in the "who had the Football" thread is by far the most important single posting I have read in this forum in a long time.

It starts with a quote from Ron Ecker, but the key material is by member Bernice Moore. I would like all members to read it and comment with additional facts and opinions........

This was not happenstance that the President, the Vice President and six members of the Cabinet were away from the centre of power on Nov.22/63.

It was indeed happenstance that the Cabinet members were away. They were traveling to a third annual joint Cabinet meeting with the Japanese. The first was held in November 1961 in Japan, the second was held in December 1962 in DC, and the third was to be held in November 1963 in Japan.

Surely the conspirators did not plan over two years in advance for the Cabinet to be away, by manipulating JFK in 1961 to start annual joint Cabinet meetings, to be held late each year, with Japan, and on a rotating basis so that the third year meant flying to Japan.

Ron

Ron,

I think Shanet's right on this. They did'nt manipulate the timing of the Cabinet meeting, but the timing of the meeting could have determined the date of the assassination. I don't think it was happenstance.

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I think Shanet's right on this. They did'nt manipulate the timing of the Cabinet meeting, but the timing of the meeting could have determined the date of the assassination. I don't think it was happenstance.

If true, we know who some prime movers in the plot were. Who arranged for JFK to be in Dallas (where a sheep-dipped patsy was waiting) during the last week in November, the week the Cabinet would be off to Japan?

But does that mean there was no plot to kill JFK in Chicago in early November, or in Miami, while the Cabinet was still in DC?

I don't really see why the Cabinet had to be out of town. In fact, not all of them were. The Attorney General was on the job in DC, as was the Secretary of Defense, back from Hawaii. If there was a coup, what was the AG going to do about it? Tell J. Edgar Hoover to do something? McNamara, if he wasn't part of the plot, could cause trouble, I suppose, if he wanted to try to round up some loyal military forces for a shootout. But it was apparently not seen as necessary to have McNamara out of the country. I don't see what problem the rest of the Cabinet could pose if the military took over that day. I think it would be among the least of the conspirators' worries.

I do think the conspirators may have taken advantage of the Japan trip by having Pierre Salinger go along for the ride, instead of him going to Texas where he might have demanded at least normal security for the president in Dallas.

Ron

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I think Shanet's right on this. They did'nt manipulate the timing of the Cabinet meeting, but the timing of the meeting could have determined the date of the assassination. I don't think it was happenstance.

If true, we know who some prime movers in the plot were. Who arranged for JFK to be in Dallas (where a sheep-dipped patsy was waiting) during the last week in November, the week the Cabinet would be off to Japan?

But does that mean there was no plot to kill JFK in Chicago in early November, or in Miami, while the Cabinet was still in DC?

I don't really see why the Cabinet had to be out of town. In fact, not all of them were. The Attorney General was on the job in DC, as was the Secretary of Defense, back from Hawaii. If there was a coup, what was the AG going to do about it? Tell J. Edgar Hoover to do something? McNamara, if he wasn't part of the plot, could cause trouble, I suppose, if he wanted to try to round up some loyal military forces for a shootout. But it was apparently not seen as necessary to have McNamara out of the country. I don't see what problem the rest of the Cabinet could pose if the military took over that day. I think it would be among the least of the conspirators' worries.

I do think the conspirators may have taken advantage of the Japan trip by having Pierre Salinger go along for the ride, instead of him going to Texas where he might have demanded at least normal security for the president in Dallas.

Ron

Ron,

You might be right but I don't necessarily agree that the Cabinet would be the least of their worries. It seems they endeavored to sever communication in a variety of ways. Cabinets can be annoying sometimes because they have meetings and on some occasions reach decisions. When you want to ensure there's only one decision maker on the day, why not make the Cabinet prisoner of the communication network which you control ? You're not giving the conspirators' the credit due. Meticulous planning was the hallmark of this hit.

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Who arranged for JFK to be in Dallas (where a sheep-dipped patsy was waiting) during the last week in November, the week the Cabinet would be off to Japan?

This question is simply answered in the WC Report (pp. 28-29):

"The basic decision on the November trip to Texas was made at a meeting of President Kennedy, Vice President Johnson, and Governor Connally on June 5, 1963, at the Cortez Hotel in El Paso, Texas. . . . The three agreed that the President would come to Texas in late November 1963."

Ron

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Shanet, would the military have moved on Kennedy without approval?  I guess I'm asking, did they have their masters as well?

This crime has always appeared to me to be the movement of absolute power.  They didn't think they could get away with murdering JFK.  They didn't hope they could away with it.  They knew they could.

The Kennedy's feared a military takeover of the office of the president.  Is this indeed what happened in 1963?

If pressed I would say the impetus for the executive sanction came from the executives with access to the full surveillance files on Kennedy. The former Navy Secretarys Robert Alexander, Fred Korth and John Connally (all members of the Suite 8F) probably saw the full Office of Naval Intelligence material and pushed the option quietly on the JCS. At some point CD DILLON made the pivotal decision to add his weight to the effort, in a way distinctly similar to the 1963 draft of the 25th amendment. The 25th utterly streamlined the impeachment process, or rather it added a second track to the option of a House impeaachment and Senate trial. Removal of the President by a small group of Cabinet level advisors was made "legal" between 1963 and 1967 (the Johnson Years).

The cabinet flight to Asia may be somewhat co-incidental, and as Ron said, not absolutely necessary to the success of the sanction.

The communication interruption, the break between the White House and the Cabinet group (loss of codes) the Waashington Phone Outage, the Dallas police channel blockage and other co-ordinated communication disruptions shows the "official" nature of the executive sanction.

Once DILLON was onboard with Taylor, the various joint agency processes could begin. Cuban Bay of Pigs Interpen characters, organized crime characters, right wing political characters and people like Jack Lawrence were used to give deniability and cover to the national security executives behind the plot. The CIA can be part of a joint agency plot in a very limited manner, and can look "innocent" by sending a bogus Abort team to Dallas. The FBI would have been held out of the loop in the buildup, and Hoover given good insulating deniability until after the fact. Since the hit was "government policy" and suitable for Hoover's personal agenda, he was obliged to look the other way throughout the aftermath.

The masters of the military, as you put it, would have been a small group of self appointed national security executives and recent former executives. McCone, McCloy, Alexander, Forth, Connally, Lemnitzer, Marshall Carter, Allen Dulles and Maxwell Taylor would have given "legitimacy" to the action and worked to arrange the autopsy, the press/camera sweeps, the Oswald frame and the communication breakdowns.

This is just an articulated version of the traditional view that "the government did it"

:ph34r::ph34r::hotorwot:(:hotorwot:blink::ph34r:

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Shanet :Thankyou for your thoughts..

*******************************

The question has been asked many times...Did the Military kill it's own Commander In Chief.??

Perhaps this isn't so far fetched.

Between the years of 1962 and 1954 there were 16 successful and 12 unsuccess ful military coups around the globe... From WW2 to 1961 there were no less than 27 major military uprisings around the world, that swept away their civilian governments.

Successful: Burma 3/2/62 ,Argentina,3/28/52, Peru 7/18/62,Togo 1/13/63, Iraq 2/8/63, Peru 3/3/63,Syria 3/8/63,Guatemala 3/30/63,Equador 7/11/63, Congo 8/12/63, Dominican Republic 9/25.63,Honduras 10/3/63, Vietnam 11/1/63, Brazil 4/1/64, Laos 4/19/64, Bolivia 11/3/64

Dwight D.Eisenhower was aware that (what he called ) the Military-Industrial Complex was actually running the nation..But not till he was leaving office did he dare voice his concern.." On the councils of government we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought ,by the military-industrial complex."

Then in 1960 there occurred the election of a peace seeking ,idealistic man,a former Navy lieutenant..and for the first time since WW2 the military was perhaps threatened by a President, who as such, intended to execute his role as he saw fit, and search for that peace..

In 1962 the thought of a possible military takeover in the U.S.,was dominant in the minds of many public officials, and it was a widely discussed topic. Much of this had been generated by the best selling novel "Seven Days in May" by Fletcher Knebel and Charles W.Bailey...which later became a popular movie, made at the request of President Kennedy, who wanted it filmed as a warning to the nation..

This book which depicted a U.S President fighting a secret military junta that seeks to seize control of the nation, presented an idea that was taken somewhat seriously in the nation's capitol..In the 15 years since the second world war the military had emerged as the dominant force in the government ,a number of officials ,civilian and former military ,had publicly voiced alarm..over their growing power and influence..In 1961 the Sec.of the Navy in a conversation with one of the authors of the book ruminated on the state of the nation, unknown to him ,his thoughts were amplified and placed in the mind of the fictional President in the popular novel."I'm worried ,up until 1945 an individual could have some feeling even in a world war that he had some control over his own existence. But when that atomic bomb exploded over Hiroshima, something happened .People began to feel helpless....Now, with hydrogen bombs all over the world, the individual feels even more at a loss to help control his own destiny.You can sense the feeling everywhere."......."The Secretary went on to say that in a monolithic state,such as Russia, it doesn't matter much what the individual feels .But in a democracy ,where leaders govern only by the collective consent of millions of individuals, the attitude of the single citizen is crucial.If people no longer believe they can influence events ,he argued, democracy is in danger,and a dictator could take over. There is no magic in the American System. It can be preserved only by millions of citizens working day in and day out to nourish a system that was then 185 years old.But did Americans still work at it? Or, he wondered,were they beginning to give up." ..The man who headed the most powerful peacetime navy in history ,later resigned and returned to his home state and was elected Governor...and so it was that on Nov.22/63...former Navy Secretary John B.Connally became a victim in the six-second ambush that killed President John F.Kennedy....

As Ike had continued on, "the potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exisits and will persist..We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes."

Just two months after taking office Ike's young successor issued a similar warning when he sent Congress his first message on the defense budget " Neither our strategy nor our psychology as a nation, and certainly not our ecomony...must become dependent upon the permanent maintenance of a large military establishment"..... "Our arms must be subject to ultimate civilian control and command at all times, in war as well as peace."....

Did it happen in America ? Did the military establishment covertly gain control of the government reins it had acquired in the latter stages of WW2.?..

It has always been difficult for a democracy to return to that democracy after a prolonged period of a form of dictatorship that always comes with war..It was difficult after WW1, and in some ways it barely made it back.but after WW2 it seems it may not have ..some believe that the military took control, or the reins, of the government during the latter stages of the second world war when President Franklin D.Roosevelt was, tired, very ill, and dying, and with the advent of the Atomic Bomb.

Kennedy himself had considered the possibility of some sort of military coup..In his memoirs Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev tells of a key meeting which occurred during the Cuban Military crisis..with RFK and Ambassador Anatoly Dobrynin..Khrushchev quoted RFK as saying..."The President is in a grave situation. We are under very severe stress..In fact we are under pressure from our military to use force against Cuba......That is why the President is appealing directly to Chairman Khrushchev for his help in liquidating the conflict. If the situation continues much longer,........The President is not sure that the military will not overthrow him and seize power. The American army could get out of control."

In "The Pleasure of His Company"..by JFK's confidant Red Fay he states " We were out on the Honey Fitz again the next day, and the President said he had read "Seven Days In May"..the previous night.He discussed the possibility of such a military takeover very calmly ......"" It's possible. It could happen in this country, but the conditions would have to be just right. If, for example ,the country had a young President, and he had a Bay of Pigs, there would be a certain uneasiness. Maybe the military would do a little criticizing behind his back, but this would be written off as the usual military dissatisfaction with civilian control. Then if there were another Bay of Pigs ,the reaction of the country would be, "Is he too young and inexperienced ?". The military would almost feel that it was their patriotic obligation to stand ready to preserve the integrity of the nation ,and only God knows just what segment of democracy they would be defending if they overthrew the elected establishment." Then as if steeling himself for the final challenge, he continued, "Then, if there were a third Bay of Pigs, it could happen.:...."Pausing long enough for all of us to assess the significance of his comment, he concluded with the old Navy phrase, " But it won't happen on my watch."......Did it??

President Kennedy more so than perhaps any President in the history of the U.S. was in conflict with the military and intelligence combined.At the time of the assassination the interests of the Pentagon and the CIA coincided....as Jim Garrison stated .."the CIA had become the clandestine arm of the military-industrial complex.." Later it seemed that a rift ?? of some sort could have developed, as the Military continued to concentrate it's efforts against Communism in Southeast Asia and the CIA began to broaden it's base of operations and expanded it's power within the United Sates, or was this their plan????

JFK had seen nearly two decades of increasing militarism and he saw the danger that exisited from that excessive power of America's warfare interests in the Pentagon as well as the illegal, covert operations of the CIA abroad and domestically..He sought to place civilian control over both, but in the years after WW2 these two sectors of the goverment had become so powerful that they answered to no one...not even the President.

Briefly:

The Bay of Pigs:Ill conceived, badly executed attempt in Apr.61..to invade Cuba and overthrow Castro..the idea being conceived by Nixon during Ike's administration, and three months after Kennedy had taken office.

Conflict:

Kennedy's failure to provide military support , air cover by US war planes,resulting in the aborted ingression.He incurred both the wrath and the hostility of the Pentagon and the CIA..later he initiated a house cleaning of the Agency and demanded the resignations of, Allen Dulles,( later a member of the WC.).Dep. Director General C.Cabell, (his brother was Mayor of Dallas at the time of the assassination)..Kennedy was quoted as stating he wished "

to splinter the CIA into 1,000 pieces and scatter it to the winds."..He was determined to curb it's power and independence, and discussed plans to place it under the authority of the Attorney General....(who happened to be his brother Robert F.Kennedy.)

The Cuban Missile Crisis:

Aerial reconnaissance photographs showing Soviet long range missile bases under construction in Cuba....90 miles off shore..... a nuclear attack could be launched on much of the US..and the Western hemisphere..at the height of the crisis Soviet ships carrying additional weapons returned to Russian ports..and Khrushchev announced that they would be dismantled..and Armageddon was averted..

Conflict:

For several years the Pentagon along with the CIA had put forth a considerable amount of time, money,and effort outlining and planning the attempted assassination of Castro,and the taking back of Cuba..and to make matters considerably worse after the BOPs disaster had ordered all assassination attempts on Castro concelled and plans for detente were initiated.

The Nuclear Test Ban Treaty:

In Sept.61.The Soviets suddenly resumed nuclear tests, breaking an unofficial test ban that had lasted nearly three years..JFK urged the Russians and Great Britain in a agreement not to conduct tests in the atmosphere..When the Russians did not, Kennedy resumed underground tests....in March 62 after extensive studies of Soviet advances he reluctantly ordered new atmospheric tests ..He announced another conference, in Jun 63 aimed at producing a test ban treaty..on Aug.5/63..after lengthy negotiations the three signed a limited nuclear test ban treaty forbidding atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons...this treaty also forbid no further testing underwater........it was formally ratified on Sep.1/63...and it eased Cold War tensions..

Conflict:

Authorities ,many from the military community appeared before the Senate Committee considering the Treaty in August, to vehemently oppose the President's words of support for the measure..Citing distrust of the Soviets ,the

Joint Chiefs of Staff declared themselves opposed to the treaty "under almost any terms." Their advice was overruled by President Kennedy..

Efforts to End the Cold War:

Situation and Conflict...In 1963 the Pentagon and the CIA wanted deep involvement in Vietnam and their thrust had become almost irreversible.Kennedy by that time had begun to resist this thrust and had changed his earlier decisions recommended to him by the Joint Chiefs of Staff , permitting the US to have limited involvement.He had become convinced by former military commanders , particularly retired General Douglas Mac Arthur,against allowing the US to become involved in a land war with her troops..in South East Asia.In June 63, Kennedy was in deep conflict with his military advisors...he ordered Sec. of Defense

Robert MacNamarra and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Maxwell Taylor to announce from the White House steps ,that all American forces were going to be withdrawn from Vietnam by 1965....By the summer of 63, Kennedy had made his final decision , no involvement in Vietnam....and eventual withdrawl, totally of all US forces ....

This was a fatal decision ...the American warfare machine in Asia had gained too much momentum to be reversed: men more powerful than Kennedy had already decided the policy with regard to Vietnam.....

In what was perhaps his last formal executive order, President Kennedy announced his intentions...to withdraw 1,000......US military personnel from South Vietnam.."Within 72 hours of Kennedy's brutal death :new President Lyndon Baines Johnson completely reversed his predecessor's policy toward Southeast Asia...Following the eulogy for John F.Kennedy in the rotunda of the nations capitol, Johnson met with US ambassador to Vietnam Henry Cabot Lodge and instructed him to return to Vietnam and inform the Saigon government that the United States was going to provide South Vietnam with strong military support .."

The secret build up then began ,the rest is history.....58,000 Americans dead......

300,000 Americans wounded......2 million civilians dead......billions of dollars wasted conducting an immoral, senseless, and undeclared war which was prolonged by the deception of Presidents, Johnson and Nixon by their military advisors.....

Review:

Recall the conditions that would have had to exist for a military coup d'etat in the Unites States.......as outlined by President Kennedy himself........

1..the country would have to be lead by a young President ( Kennedy in fact was at that time the youngest man ever to hold that office.)

2..there would have to be a Bay of Pigs ( this occurred in April,1961.)

3..military criticism of the President would follow.(it did.)

4..if there was another Bay of Pigs ,the military would consider overthrowing

the elected establishment .( the Cuban Missile Crisis may be considered "another

Bay of PIgs.").

5..if there was a third Bay of Pigs it could happen..........(This could be represented by the signing of the Test Ban Treaty against the advice of the Joint Chiefs of staff.)

Therefore the conditions outlined by President John F.Kennedy were approximated during his administration....his decisions on Vietnam......ended with his death.

Information from:

Fletcher Knebel & Charles Bailey .."Military Control Can It Happen Here," Look magazine

9/11/62.

Arthur Schlesinger: "The Imperial Presidency"

President Dwight David Eisenhower: "Farewell Address, 1/17/61

Khrushchev" "Khrushchev Remembers".

Jim Garrison: "A Heritage of Stone."

Wise & Ross " "The Invisible Government".

Branch & Crile "The Kennedy Vendetta.: Harper's 8/75.

Schlesinger: "A Thousand Days".

Elie Abel : "The Missile Crisis"..

Penn Jones: "Forgive My Grief".Vol.IV

Schurmann,Scott & Zelnick:"The Politics of Escalation in Vietnam".

Gery Shaw: "Cover Up"..

B.. :hotorwot

Edited by Bernice Moore

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Another very interesting post, Bernice. One aspect I've sometimes considered is who would be the agencies the MIC would have employed to do the actual shooting, assuming no military personnel were used and the conspirators didn't rely solely on anti-Castro forces ? (I don't believe they would have considered such a potentially hazardous option--the anti-Castro force's record on successful assassinations was hardly impressive.) In focusing on the CIA, we might be looking at the wrong agency. The NSA comes under suspicion by it's hard edged secrecy alone. The other alternative is that military intelligence agents were used. Friendly foreign intelligence agencies could also be implicated.

The who and why aspects of your post are very convincing. We should now consider the how.

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Another very interesting post, Bernice. One aspect I've sometimes considered is who would be the agencies the MIC would have employed to do the actual shooting, assuming no military personnel were used and the conspirators didn't rely solely on anti-Castro forces ? (I don't believe they would have considered such a potentially hazardous option--the anti-Castro force's record on successful assassinations was hardly impressive.) In focusing on the CIA, we might be looking at the wrong agency. The NSA comes under suspicion by it's hard edged secrecy alone. The other alternative is that military intelligence agents were used. Friendly foreign intelligence agencies could also be implicated.

The who and why aspects of your post are very convincing. We should now consider the how.

Can anyone shed any light in this NSA Document from 22/11/63 regarding the kennedy assassination.

NSA Document from 22/22/63

Discussing pick up of "all tapes" by sgt holts.

All couriers for weekend cable run briefed.

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This recent post in the "who had the Football" thread is by far the most important single posting I have read in this forum in a long time.

It starts with a quote from Ron Ecker, but the key material is by member Bernice Moore. I would like all members to read it and comment with additional facts and opinions........

QUOTE(Ron Ecker @ Jun 3 2005, 04:56 AM)

According to Manchester, Gearhart had the football, and he was not left behind at Parkland. Johnson and his men paid no attention to him (I'm sure Johnson knew exactly what was going on and that the Russians had nothing to do with it), but Gearhart took it upon himself to sit on a policeman's lap from Parkland to Love Field.

Manchester says that eyeglasses seen reflecting light from the rear in the photo of Johnson being sworn in are Gearhart's glasses.

Ron

**********************

Hi Ron:

When Gearhart was separated from Johnson, it would not necessarily have been accidentally...It could have been deliberately arranged by the military personnal at the upper level of the plot..They may not have trusted Johnson with the steel

30lb.. suitcase that held the key to a retaliatory attack, perhaps it was imperative that for the first few hours following the transfer of power, that the planners have complete control of all aspects...foreign and domestic.

It is hard to believe the United States was off guard in anyway, within the Pentagon

where total control was concentrated, the high military officials were in command,

they were aware, and prepared for any situation that might arise from foreign or

a domestic source...

In Bishop's book, it contains another revealing incident: "Officials at the Pentagon were calling the White House switchboard at the Dallas-Sheraton Hotel asking who was now in command. An Officer grabbed the phone and assured the Pentagon that Secretary of Defense Robert MacNamara and the Joint Chief of Staff ' are now the President".".......Perhaps because the assassination was on a need to know basis ,the party that called was a low echelon officer who was unaware of what was happening..It was interesting that the communication officer who took the phone to announce the transfer of power was a member of the Presidential party and was fully aware of what was taking place.....

Communications of all kinds seemed to have been deemed important by those who planned and carried out the assassination..Several strange incidents that involved communications in Dallas..Washington...and abroad occurred..that day...

They of course have been attributed to coincidence , but what are the odds.?

In Dallas the police radio was immobilized at 12.29 Channel One of the DP radio system was rendered inoperative when someone within the dept. keyed his radio microphone button for four minutes, making it impossible for any police communication from the kill zone during the critical moments...and immediately afterward.....Channel One was reserved that day for those officers in the security of the President..From 12.29 till 12.33 the only audible sound on the police audio tape is the rumbling of a motorcycle engine...In Dallas the press telephone within the motorcade was immobilized..At 12.34 the radiophone in the press car carrying the members of the wire services was rendered inoperative, also.....In fact a fight broke out between UPI's Merriman Smith and Jack Bell of the AP.Bell finally managed to grab it after Smith has issued the initial report that shots had been fired , but to Bell's dismay, the line inexplicably went dead..

In Washington there was a crucial breakdown of communications when the telephone system ,in the capital went out at approximately 12.33..pm..It was almost an hour before full telephone service resumed ..It was explained ,that it was due to overloaded phone lines, was the Pentagon affected by this shut down??

Abroad, a teletype machine aboard a military aircraft carrying the Cabinet members to Japan began chattering the first report that shots had been fired, there was a moment of panic ,fearing an international plot, and with codes and procedures for such and emergency,Sec. of State Dean Rusk and Press Sec. Pierre Salinger attempted to contact the White House for verification..The did reach the Situation Room but were prohibited from authenticating the data because the "official code book was missing"..from it's special place aboard the plane.

After a futile search the Sec of State was forced to break procedures with coded communications ,Rusk was forced to break the code and communicate with the WH in plain English..

This was not happenstance that the President, the Vice President and six members of the Cabinet were away from the centre of power on Nov.22/63.It seems as though it was by design that Sec. of State Dean Rusk, Treasury Sec. Douglas Dillon, Interior Sec. Stewart Udall, and Labor Sec.W.W.Wirtz, as well as other administration officials like Press Sec. Salinger, were trapped on an airplane over the Pacific at such a critical time..These men perhaps thought they represented the true power of the nation but by all authority that day it belonged to the powerful military chieftans deep within the Pentagon....

As an additive....

In Hawaii on Nov. 21/63 , the day before......shortly after lunch Honolulu time , U.S.Ambassador to South Vietnam Henry Cabot Lodge made a long distance call from the lobby of the Royal Hawaiian Hotel..Now this distinguished diplomat had acces to phones in privacy from his room or the military circuits at no cost....Yet he was seen, according to the Honolulu Star Bulletin, with a stack of quarters in his hand pitting coin after coin into a pay phone??

Mr.Lodge was in Honolulu for a nine hour summit conference on Nam with Sec. of Defence Robert McNamara ,Sec of State Dean Rusk, financial aid chief David E.Bell ,Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Maxwell D.Taylor, Admiral Harry D.Felt, and General Paul D.Harkins, then the Commander of U.S.Forces in Vietnam..

Lodge was the only person of the seven member policy-making body to stay at the Royal Hawaiian Hotel.....the others stayed in the military quarters.

This group of high level political and military policymakers had just decided to step-up military operations against communist insurgents in Nam.

This desicion was in Direct Conflict with Presidentt Kennedy's announced intention

of Oct.63..to withdraw 1000 U.S.military personnel from Sth.Vietnam, reducing U.S.troop strength there to approximately 14.500..

Three days later Lodge met with the new President and was instructed by LBJ to return to Vietnam and inform the Saigon government of the new U.S policy pf strong military support for South Vietnam..

But from Washington......on the afternoon of Nov. 22/63......somewhere high over the United States, the new President Lyndon Baines Johnson and the passengers aboard AF 1....received the news that the assassination had been performed by one individual and no conspriacy existed.....The news came not from the scene of the crime,Dallas.....but from Washington D.C....specifically, it came from either McGeorge Bundy or Commander Oliver Hallet in the Situation Room of the White House Communications Agency...........manned by military personnel and receiving much of it's information from the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) in the Pentagon.....

and Last but not least there was in the air over the U.S a mobile military force able to be thrown into action anywhere in the U.S where needed.......if trouble developed..The largest peacetime airlift in history had taken place, Operation Big Lift....had moved an entire combat division from Texas to Germany for thirty days just one month previous.....On the day of President Kennedy was killed, the last third of the returning troops were in the air at the time of the shooting...estimated to be a brigade combat team armed with personal weapons, which could have been deployed anywhere into action, in the nation on a very short notice.....if perhaps needed.....

But this was of course all coincidence, if not then it was an indication of the careful planning undertaken by the Military ......That day in Dallas.....

From:

The Day Kennedy Was Shot....Jim Bishop

Dallas Radio Tapes..11/22/63

The Death of a President....William Manchester

Forgive My Grief IV...Penn Jones

The Making of the President...Theodore White

Cover-Up.........Gary Shaw

B  (Bernice Moore)

Thanks again.

This is the critical material pertinent to an authorized

EXECUTIVE SANCTION

;)  :angry:  ;)  ;)  ;)

Bernice:

An excellent post, to say the least. As much information as you provide,

two events jump out at me, one I knew about one and questioned for years, and one you just infomred me about.

The first I knew about, and that's the secret code book that was suppose to be in the plane that was flying the cabinet members to Japan. I've read that the responsibility of maintaining that code book in the cabinet's plane was given to the CIA. I don't believe in coincidences with this assassination. In my opinion, someone took that code book deliberatley out so that the cabinet could not communicate with the White House situation room in code, and was thus taken out of the sensitive security loop. From what I have studied about this code book missing, no investigation was ever performed by any government agency to determine why the code book was missing from the cabinet plane.

The other fact you bring up is new to me. I didn't realize that U.S.

Ambassador to Vietnam, Henry Cabot Lodge, was making phone calls at a pay phone with quarters in his hand; something below an Ambassador of his stature.

This suggests something very clandestine, as he had access to telephones all over

military installations in Hawaii. The fact that it was reported by the Honolulu Star

Bulletin adds credence to the event. This is not unlike David Ferrie making phone calls at a pay phone at the ice skating rink in Houston on the day of the assassination. Both Lodge's and Ferrie's actions at the pay phones are very suspicious, to say the least.

Bill Cheslock

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Robin , Mark and Bernice

Robin's NSA Document is a routine day officers sheet from 11/22/63.

Classification was low - although routinely marked TOP SECRET it is really only confidential. Notice the lack of UMBRA VERONA COMINT style classification level here. This thing was MEANT for later release. It is a staged sheet of routine business the day JFK was shot. A Duty Officer (name removed) and his boss's signatures are removed. In fine print in the lower right hand is the cross listing #s and these may lead to other files from that day.......

This thing is a historical text and it has a narrative.

The setting is the Signals intelligence Command Center of the US NAtional Security Agency (probably Ft. Meade) record of events from Eight A.M to Four P.M. down at the watch desk. It is a reoutine officer of the day mailroom type list.

Nine forty five a.m. recieved the APSO message, (code # USJ 790 or DTG2104297) and Holst picked up these routine dailies.

One Thirty ..... Routine distribution of BRASS documents by officer Newman.

Two Fourteen P.M. Sent message to CAG ONNIS reporting President shot

Two Thirty Six PM sent message to CAG ONNIS reporting President dead

Two Forty Six INDIC message from DIA received and farmed out

A routine day, on a document meant for historical release...........?

Edited by Shanet Clark

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