MKULTRA and the assassination

[Greg Parker]

The idea that Oswald may have been "controlled" was not totally ignored by the Commission.

Soviet Brainwashing Techniques

Whilst I have long dismissed the notion in Oswald's case, the document sent to Rankin does contain a couple of examples to give pause.

In the first, an enlisted man was hypnotically induced to strike an officer. In the second, (taken from a real life event),a school teacher was given a post-hypnotic suggestion to shoot himself in the left hand. He failed, but only because he shot his left elbow instead.

Those aware of Oswald's time in Japan will be aware of his striking an officer, and of his self inflicted gunshot wound.

Then there was also that lingering rumor he had been the person who shot and killed Martin Shrand...

[Guest David Guyatt]

Having heaped blame on the evil of Soviet mind control techniques in the 1960's, the US gleefully grabbed them with open arms in the 1990's.

http://mcrais.googlepages.com/usexplor.htm

Extracts:

Quote

“As far as it has become possible to probe and correct psychic contents of human beings despite their will and consciousness by instrumental means… results having been achieved can get out of [our] control and be used with inhumane purposes of manipulating psyche,”

Unquote

Imagine that. Something inherently inhumane can get out of control and be used inhumanely. Bless me.

Also:

Quote

Pioneered by the government funded Department of Psycho-Correction at the Moscow Medical Academy, acoustic psycho-correction involves the transmission of specific commands via static or white noise bands into the human subconscious without upsetting other intellectual functions.

Unquote

It brings a whole new depth of meaning to avowed crazies receiving messages from God, eh...

[Guest David Guyatt]

Allow me to change the part of the forgoing sentence that says "the US gleefully grabbed them with open arms" by deleting "open arms" and replacing them with "both hands".

Or by deleting the word "grabbed" and replacing it with "received".

[Dawn Meredith]

The idea that Oswald may have been "controlled" was not totally ignored by the Commission.

Soviet Brainwashing Techniques

Whilst I have long dismissed the notion in Oswald's case, the document sent to Rankin does contain a couple of examples to give pause.

In the first, an enlisted man was hypnotically induced to strike an officer. In the second, (taken from a real life event),a school teacher was given a post-hypnotic suggestion to shoot himself in the left hand. He failed, but only because he shot his left elbow instead.

Those aware of Oswald's time in Japan will be aware of his striking an officer, and of his self inflicted gunshot wound.

Then there was also that lingering rumor he had been the person who shot and killed Martin Shrand...

Brings to mind the book "Were We Controlled?" by "Lincoln Lawrence". While interesting in what he had to say about certain aspects of brain stimulation (via remote control) I too long ago dismissed this notion in the case of LHO.

This is a great thread, thanks to all for the imput here. This has long been a subject of great interest to me.

Dawn

[Dawn Meredith]

Brings to mind the book "Were We Controlled?" by "Lincoln Lawrence". While interesting in what he had to say about certain aspects of brain stimulation (via remote control) I too long ago dismissed this notion in the case of LHO.

This is a great thread, thanks to all for the imput here. This has long been a subject of great interest to me.

Dawn

Some pertinent extracts here.

http://www.ctrl.org/essay2/WEC.html

There's a very good essay by Peter Dale Scott using "Were We Controlled?" as part of an exploratory comparison of the JFK assassination and 9/11.

Jan:

I have not seen or read that book since 1975, so it was interesting to see the excerpts posted here. Would you please post the entire PDS essay, or what it's called. PDS in incomparable on these matters, imho.

Dawn

btw, I have enjoyed all you have posted here.

[Greg Parker]

Greg - interesting. As I've mentioned before, the case of Palle Hardrup definitively proves that a person can be programmed to kill under hypnosis.

Jan, that may well be so, but it was not the finding of the jury, who were asked to consider a number of questions drafted jointly by the defense and prosecutors concerning the Norrebrogade bank heist and the related homicide. Among them, it was asked to consider whether those offenses occurred as a result of (in relation to Hardrup - he and Nielsen were jointly tried):

( a ) Planning and instigation through hypnotic influence;

( b ) Planning and instigation through influence of various kinds (including hypnotic influence);

( c ) Planning and instigation

The jury opted for ( b )

On a more general level, I refuse to use the word "brainwashing" as I consider it tainted and practically meaningless. The phrase was first used by Edward Hunter, a journalist who has admitted to working for the CIA, and it appears to have been an MSM attempt to explain away anti-American statements by American POWs in Korea.

The wiki entry on "brainwashing" is a decent introduction to the (highly politicized) history of the phrase.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing

I agree that it was used to explain away the POW situation. As wiki shows, the word itself is a rough translation of the term used by the Chinese for their methods of coercive persuasion, and used strictly in that context, I have no problem with it (as for the media…well, you can't go around saying that US troops were merely persuaded - coercively or otherwise. How's that gonna look down at the Super Power Club House? And all those snotty non-Members would no doubt have a good chortle…).

Neilsen probably used a combination of hypnosis and various forms of persuasion in his hold over Hardrup - and I believe similar methods were employed with Ruby.

I'm glad you raised the issue of the POWs. It is my belief that one of the studies done was what led Oswald on that long "Road to Dallas".

In passing, two of the key critics of the veracity of "recovered memories", Margaret Singer and Richard Ofshe, attempted to use "brainwashing" as the defence for fabulously well-connected heiress, Patty Hearst. The judge ruled "brainwashing" inadmissible as a defence. Imo Patty Hearst almost certainly had been subject to mind control programming, but it certainly wasn't the brainwashing of Singer & Ofshe which is disinformation

The two terms ("brainwashing" and "mind control") should not be used interchangeably. I haven't really looked at the Hearst case, so don't know if that's what the defense was doing. Can you clarify what the defense meant by "brainwashing", and what the judge's precise ruling on it was?

To hark back to comments you made in post 61.

Sirhan used Rosicrucian material to hypnotize himself. (Obtained from?)

Rosicrucian head office was (and perhaps, still is) San Jose.

The clinical evidence for hypno-programming is stronger in the Sirhan Sirhan case than any other "lone nut" case. Indeed, it's overwhelming.

You might find the chart on page 9 of this article of some interest: Bogota Ripples

Edited April 23, 2008 by Greg Parker

[Guest David Guyatt]

Rosicrucian head office was (and perhaps, still is) San Jose.

Greg, I believe you are referring here to AMORC, one of the newer Rosicrucian splinter groups founded circa 1915, by Harvey Spencer Lewis, following his initiation into a French Order in Tolouse around 1909 (very likely by Papus -- see below).

I mention this only because of the deep connections of the Toulouse Order with Martinism, informally and loosely founded by Louis-Claude de Saint-Martin but later melded into practical shape by Gerard Encausse, a.k.a Papus. All this may well seem yawn material and even trivial, but I am of the opinion that the Martinist connection is the important one, because of its avowed political stance and general affection for the Synarchy movement. Papus was a Synarchist.

Significantly (for me anyway) there has been an argument advanced that the controversial Protocols of the Elders of Sion were not, in fact, an anti-zionist tract but rather a Martinist document. It has further been argued that the real movers and shakers behind the Synarchist movement are financiers and other men of quiet influence dedicated to effecting discrete change in different nations around the world towards a Synarchist agenda.

The Wiki Synarchist entry linked below is of interest. Rule of the world by governements answerable to occult-based secret societies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synarchism

[Greg Parker]

My first impression of the Sierra case is that it could easily be some sort of black operation. Once again, I am not coming at this material from a JFK perspective, but from a Bluebird & MK/ULTRA perspective. The circumstantial details of Sierra right down to the involvement of the German Rosicrucian palmist are familiar and suggestive of something sinister.

Jan, you can look at Bluebird/MKULTRA without reference to JFK, but imo, at some stage you have to look into Bluebird/MKULTRA when considering JFK.

Thanks for all the great info on the Hearst case... some of the subjects to look into are not ones I would have predicted!

Greg, I believe you are referring here to AMORC, one of the newer Rosicrucian splinter groups founded circa 1915, by Harvey Spencer Lewis, following his initiation into a French Order in Tolouse around 1909

David, yes. AMORC. This was the group Sierra joined, and though I don't know for certain.... most likely Sirhan, as well.

Serious question: was Castro ever known to be, or suspected of being associated with any like sects/secret societies - particularly during his student days?

[Guest David Guyatt]

Significantly (for me anyway) there has been an argument advanced that the controversial Protocols of the Elders of Sion [sic - Zion] were not, in fact, an anti-zionist [sic -- anti-Jewish, antisemitic] tract but rather a Martinist document. It has further been argued that the real movers and shakers behind the Synarchist movement are financiers and other men of quiet influence dedicated to effecting discrete change in different nations around the world towards a Synarchist agenda.

Wonder who advanced those arguments?

Guy Patton, author of Web of Gold:

http://www.perillos.com/sauniere_occult.pdf

[Guest David Guyatt]

Serious question: was Castro ever known to be, or suspected of being associated with any like sects/secret societies - particularly during his student days?

I am not aware of any connection, Greg.

[William Kelly]

Serious question: was Castro ever known to be, or suspected of being associated with any like sects/secret societies - particularly during his student days?

I am not aware of any connection, Greg.

I would think that being a revolutionary against Batista would qualify as being part of a secret society.

Students at the University of Havana were the backbone of the early anti-Batista movement, and included the DRE - composed primarily of students.

Bill Kelly

[Robert Howard]

Serious question: was Castro ever known to be, or suspected of being associated with any like sects/secret societies - particularly during his student days?

I am not aware of any connection, Greg.

I have a few items to add regarding some of the topics mentioned that I believe will prove to be a contribution.

1. Rosicrucians........I have a general recollection about a book that came out somewhat after the RFK Assassination and it was a real [iMO at the time I saw it] kind of out in left-field analysis of RFK's assassination

I cannot remember the title, but I remember the author struck me as an "insider" [that was why I didn't give it much attention.....A politician?] and the book, [it was really more like a large pamphlet, possibly w/o a ISBN number] almost exclusively dealt with the Rosicrucians in relation to sinister activities, I did not know at the time that there was a Rosicrucian angle to the RFK assassination, I googled "RFK Assassination w/variations" last night to see if I could find it but without any luck.

So, to make some type of constructive input to the thread, I did find a newspaper article, from the Lowell Sun [MA] of 11/9/1970 entitled "Sirhan didn't sound like Arab Patriot."

Here are a few excerpts

Kaiser:So why did Sirhan keep reiterating that he killed Kennedy to "stop him from sending bombers to Israel?" I wanted to get back into that area......

Sirhan: It involved more people than just Sirhan.

Kaiser: What do you mean by that?

Sirhan paused, obviously searching within himself what to say.....

Sirhan: There were too many Arab refugees......that helped me to move against Kennedy

Later in the article,

Kaiser: He told me about his introduction to the occult, his membership in the Rosicrucians, his visit to their Pasadena headquarters his attempt at auto-suggestion which he learned from a friend named Tom and from a book called Cyclomancy........

Later in the article

Kaiser: He had told me that he visited Manley Palmer Hall's Philosophical Research Society off Los Feliz Boulevard in Los Angeles.....

Pretty heady stuff.....

Any thinking person who has studied the Assassination's of the 1960's must realize the incredible diversity of the topics covered. My area of expertise is in the JFK Assassination, and I am not real knowledgeable about the RFK Assassination in general.

The area of the JFK Assassination reveals IMO that there was a veritable rogues gallery of CIA Scientist's, psychiatrists and other nefarious individuals in the post-war period to Dealey Plaza.......[1945-1963]

For those who find brainwashing a central component in the mystery's regarding President John F. Kennedy's assassination, there is one item that bears repeating.

And that is the simple fact that while Richard Helms and Sidney Gottlieb are rightly associated with the hijinks of MK/ULTRA it also bears remembering that Gottlieb as being involved in the "Technical Services Division" also was involved in providing weapons to QJ/WIN.

So if you throw in the personages mixed in the intertwining relationships in this area ie The infamous Staff D, it results in a veritable Who's Who of the players in the JFK Assassination...William Harvey, the aforementioned Helms & Gottleib, John Rosselli aka Filippo Sacco aka John Rawlston, Rolando Cubela, Jose Maria Mankel, El Indio and Bluebird Artichoke.....

when you research the Bluebird/Artichoke material you will find that this aspect of MKULTRA starts in 1952 with something called The Kelly Case.......

[Guest David Guyatt]

Interesting Robert.

I'v just Googled the book title "Cyclomany - "The Secret of Psychic Power Control" which was by author Frank Rudolph Young who says this about himself:

Quote

FRANK RUDOLPH YOUNG, "the man of wonder," an internationally esteemed scientist of the mind-body, has been hailed as being as far ahead of his time as the science-fiction fantasies which come astonishingly true. Totally independent in his secret discoveries, he is in a class by himself. His whole life has been one of relentless research into the human mind-body and the miracle powers of its physiology when unleashed consciously.

He grew up in intimate relationship with his godfather, a potential potentate who used Secret Mental Powers to become President of his country. With the secrets of the Zohar, aided with the well-guarded discoveries in his mind-body laboratory, Frank Young found the mystery behind the right physiological language, the scientific trigger of Secret Mental Powers.

Frank Rudolph Young's granduncle was a long-lived Yogi in far-away India. For 40 years, Mr. Young's father investigated the secrets of psychic power in the West Indies and in Central and South America. Dr. Young himself spent 30 years investigating the scientific laws behind yoga and mind science. He has taught these findings to thousands of followers throughout the world.

Unquote

Other self help books the Man of Wonder wrote included such unmissable gems as "The Laws of Mental Domination..."

Perhaps his long-lived granduncle was, in reality, Adolf Hitler.

[Greg Parker]

Serious question: was Castro ever known to be, or suspected of being associated with any like sects/secret societies - particularly during his student days?

I am not aware of any connection, Greg.

I would think that being a revolutionary against Batista would qualify as being part of a secret society.

Students at the University of Havana were the backbone of the early anti-Batista movement, and included the DRE - composed primarily of students.

Bill Kelly

Thanks David and Bill. I had in the back of my mind maybe one of the Catholic orders...

[Robert Howard]

Serious question: was Castro ever known to be, or suspected of being associated with any like sects/secret societies - particularly during his student days?

I am not aware of any connection, Greg.

I would think that being a revolutionary against Batista would qualify as being part of a secret society.

Students at the University of Havana were the backbone of the early anti-Batista movement, and included the DRE - composed primarily of students.

Bill Kelly

Thanks David and Bill. I had in the back of my mind maybe one of the Catholic orders...

This is a little off the beaten track, but just a few things that should help. Before I was really active in JFK Research, I wrote some 400 pages of a non-fiction history of monotheism, too make it more interesting I decided to include material about some of these various groups. I never completely finished the book. Nevertheless, I did do extensive research into various epochs of history, and wrote a section explaining how a Catholic order The Knights Templars see [burning at the Stake of Jacques DeMolay] came to be associated with a Masonic Order a few centuries later, I corresponded with Malcolm Barber who has been called the most knowledgeable person in the world regarding The Knights Templar. I am no longer in touch with Malcolm Barber, so I don't even know if he is still among us, but he is a genius and a true scholar....University of Edinburgh

Anyway, I do not personally believe material like "King-Kill" or whatever the stuff about the 33rd parallel will answer the questions we are all looking in the JFK assassination, although Scottish Rite masonry and Catholic politicians coming to Texas is probably not a good combination, as a rule of thumb.

Personally I am more interested in areas like Mexico City, Cuba, JMWAVE, Organized Crime, the various names we have all come to be so familiar with, but I do believe that there are very important aspects, or overtones with these various occult, secret society type groups; an obvious example is Sirhan and the Rosicrucians. I just believe it is a good idea to stay within the realm of fact instead of the written in 3 month type of stuff that is out there.

If you want to learn about Skull and Bones read Alexandra Robbins instead of some fluff piece on the Internet, that probably did not put much effort into whatever they have....Obviously there is a ton of good stuff out there, but I am referring to the material that you find on the multi-colored cheap looking websites.

Edited April 26, 2008 by Robert Howard