Lee Harvey Oswald

[Mark Stapleton]

Hi, James

Is it not possible that a powerful political ideological and extremely

influencing 'well dug in group' with the aim of seising the powers of

government, including president Johnson et.al. after removing Kennedy

and ever since in total control of all foriegn and domestic policies of

the U.S. and the UN.? (Harry Dean)

Hi Harry,

The simple answer to that is yes, it is possible.

Nice to see you posting again. Having someone like yourself who was involved in the political milieu of the time offering their thoughts to the forum is valuable indeed.

Cheers,

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These were my kind of people, until Kennedy was actually killed.

The planned 'NEW AMERICANIST' scheme LDS/JBS with it's framework so cunningly in place for more than a half century, moved quickly {upon Kennedy's death} to consolidate and hold perpetual power over a bewildered government and a confused nation.

Who then can ever be tried or convicted for these awful crimes, when the guilty control, all legal and moral judgements, and dictate their own version of history?

{from my 1990 manuscript/book, YROJ Connection}

Harry

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

More from my 1990 manuscript/book YROJ Connection to the JFK assassination.

Quotes from the 'action arm' of the LDS/JBS assassination conspiracy.

" Finally, and probably most important of all courses of action, we would put our

weight into the political scales in this country just as fast and far as we could"

"...unless we can have enough of an awakening in this country, and enough of

a rebellion against the appeasement policies our government outside, and it's

communizing policies inside America, the Communists are going to succeed"

" In the course of the awakening of America, there was a rapidly rising

identification of the policies of the Kennedy administration with the plans of

the Communists."

" For unless we can eventually,and in time,reverse by political action ,the

gradual surrender of the United States to Communism, the ultimate alternative

of reversal by military uprising is fearful to contemplate.

...we are opposing a conspiracy...our determination to overthrow an entrenched

tyranny is the very stuff of which revolutions are made."

"...the result of our failure in this fight most positively will be concentration camps,

or worse, and soon, we must all stick together or we will surely hang separately."

------------------- -------------------- -----------------

No honest conservative really believed that we were trying to do more than call

the liberal establishment communist sympathizers in order to replace liberalism with conservatism. But we were unknowingly being used to help install this present

system that is surreptitiously wielding every power of the U.S. government to

force the extention of a purely materialistic religious empire that is intent on

redesigning the entire world in it's own 'communal' image! An effort that includes

brute force and isolation of resistant individuals and entire nations.

Harry Dean, 1990.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

MORE, from the 1990 manuscript/book, YROJ Connection to......

So powerful we had become after Kennedy's removal,...that JBS leader Welch

wrote to members.." we can take tremendous encouragement from the one huge

victory we have won over the communists."

" We have become very much a part of the cast,therefore, in the final act of this

gory performance".

"And I mean that last statement very literally."

Harry Dean, 1990

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kennedy stated, "the very system of government is in dire peril and may not survive my term in office." The President was describing the severe threat posed by extremely powerful cooperative civil and military sedition at work.

Harry Dean, 1990

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Harry,

When did JFK say this?

[Mark Stapleton]

Tim

If you think the Cubans/Mafia were behind the assassination then who, in your opinion, has had the 'powerbase' to keep the lid on it for the last 40 years or so?

I am of course referring to the actions of certain individuals and/or groups in the tampering, alteration & falsification of witness statements, interviews, autopsy reports, photos & film taken in DP, forensic evidence, government documents, etc, etc....

Thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Steve,

Tim can't answer that one (I've asked him before). You're right, of course. To think the Mafia or even worse, Castro, had the power to rig Government enquiries as well as do all those other things needed to maintain this secret is dopey. It doesn't stop Tim, though.

[Harry J.Dean]

Hi, James

Is it not possible that a powerful political ideological and extremely

influencing 'well dug in group' with the aim of seising the powers of

government, including president Johnson et.al. after removing Kennedy

and ever since in total control of all foriegn and domestic policies of

the U.S. and the UN.? (Harry Dean)

Hi Harry,

The simple answer to that is yes, it is possible.

Nice to see you posting again. Having someone like yourself who was involved in the political milieu of the time offering their thoughts to the forum is valuable indeed.

Cheers,

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These were my kind of people, until Kennedy was actually killed.

The planned 'NEW AMERICANIST' scheme LDS/JBS with it's framework so cunningly in place for more than a half century, moved quickly {upon Kennedy's death} to consolidate and hold perpetual power over a bewildered government and a confused nation.

Who then can ever be tried or convicted for these awful crimes, when the guilty control, all legal and moral judgements, and dictate their own version of history?

{from my 1990 manuscript/book, YROJ Connection}

Harry

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

More from my 1990 manuscript/book YROJ Connection to the JFK assassination.

Quotes from the 'action arm' of the LDS/JBS assassination conspiracy.

" Finally, and probably most important of all courses of action, we would put our

weight into the political scales in this country just as fast and far as we could"

"...unless we can have enough of an awakening in this country, and enough of

a rebellion against the appeasement policies our government outside, and it's

communizing policies inside America, the Communists are going to succeed"

" In the course of the awakening of America, there was a rapidly rising

identification of the policies of the Kennedy administration with the plans of

the Communists."

" For unless we can eventually,and in time,reverse by political action ,the

gradual surrender of the United States to Communism, the ultimate alternative

of reversal by military uprising is fearful to contemplate.

...we are opposing a conspiracy...our determination to overthrow an entrenched

tyranny is the very stuff of which revolutions are made."

"...the result of our failure in this fight most positively will be concentration camps,

or worse, and soon, we must all stick together or we will surely hang separately."

------------------- -------------------- -----------------

No honest conservative really believed that we were trying to do more than call

the liberal establishment communist sympathizers in order to replace liberalism with conservatism. But we were unknowingly being used to help install this present

system that is surreptitiously wielding every power of the U.S. government to

force the extention of a purely materialistic religious empire that is intent on

redesigning the entire world in it's own 'communal' image! An effort that includes

brute force and isolation of resistant individuals and entire nations.

Harry Dean, 1990.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

MORE, from the 1990 manuscript/book, YROJ Connection to......

So powerful we had become after Kennedy's removal,...that JBS leader Welch

wrote to members.." we can take tremendous encouragement from the one huge

victory we have won over the communists."

" We have become very much a part of the cast,therefore, in the final act of this

gory performance".

"And I mean that last statement very literally."

Harry Dean, 1990

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kennedy stated, "the very system of government is in dire peril and may not survive my term in office." The President was describing the severe threat posed by extremely powerful cooperative civil and military sedition at work.

Harry Dean, 1990

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Harry,

When did JFK say this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi, Mark

A researcher would have to find the details on such statements

as this, as I only recall Kennedy warning the public re: disruptive

forces throughout the nation.

Harry

[Bill Cheslock]

Harry is making some very serious points in this thread that should NOT be overlooked.  Great insight, Harry!

Oswald was [remember Oswald...the subject of this thread?] probably the PERFECT patsy.  With his bio, he could be painted as the loser nutcase that the WC made him...OR he could have been positioned as the brave ex-Marine who went undercover, posing as a defector, at great personal risk, for his country.  His story could have been played either way, depending upon the outcome of events in Dallas.  A case could be made that Oswald held menial jobs so that he could respond to assignments at a moment's notice, and the sparse lifestyle he lived was consistent with the concept of keeping a relatively low profile...except within the areas in which he was SUPPOSED to draw attention, the Dallas Russian-exile community and the New Orleans Cuban-agitator communities.  Can ANYONE paint a detailed picture of Oswald's daily life, outside of Marina's accounts?  Co-workers knew little of him, as did neighbors.  Friends were few, and none [that I've read of] were what I would call "close" friends.

So these facts allow Oswald to be a mere outline on an otherwise-blank canvas. And of the outline, it's truly difficult to determine what is the "real" Oswald and what is the "legend" one would need to create as an asset of an intelligence agency. He could be painted as either a patriot or a scoundrel, depending upon the needs of the hour.  And it it THIS malleability of Oswald's image that renders him the TRUE enigma of the JFK assassination lore.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Mark

Very interesting post.

You say, "[Oswald] could be painted as either a patriot or a scoundrel, depending upon the needs of the hour."

It is though hard for me to picture the circumstances in which Oswald might be portrayed as a hero, except perhaps if there were any evidence or any planned scenario in which he tried to stop the assassination. As it is, there seems to be no shred of evidence that he did try to stop the murder or that any such set-up was planned, quite the opposite.

I do find it intriguing that the timing of individuals' movements in the Book Depository might have been such that Oswald was actually in the lunch room at the time of the assassination.

Oswald's whole story as now known just seems very strange and bizarre, and seemingly at odds, in some ways, to the actual cold, hard facts of the assassination as we know them.

All my best

Chris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chris:

Robert Sam Anson, who wrote "They've Killed The President," has a

very appropriate paragraph about Lee Harvey Oswald. He writes:

"Today, we know differently. And yet even now we can only guess: Who was

Lee Harvey Oswald? Maybe the problem with understanding Oswald is that we think we know him so well. So ignore his name and then consider the facts:

a man who works at a CIA base; has his records altered by the military; defects to Russia with no money; takes a plane when no planes are available; marries the niece of a high ranking Soviet official; slips across the iron curtain without leaving a trace; threatens espionage and is not arrested; lives in a community inflltrated

by intelligence agents; befriends a former spy; is seen in close contact with two intelligence agents; makes travel arrangements in the company of an employee of the CIA; uses an alias; keeps an office in a building with other agents; eludes detection by surveillance devices; gets a passport when one should be denied;

and is finally shot down in a room crowded with police by a former informer for the nation's chief investigative agency. Absorb these things, and then imagine that the man they happened to is named John Smith. Who do YOU think he is?

("They've Killed The President" pp 189-190)

It seems that LHO indeed could say, "I led three lives."

Bill Cheslock

[Harry J.Dean]

Hi, James

Is it not possible that a powerful political ideological and extremely

influencing 'well dug in group' with the aim of seising the powers of

government, including president Johnson et.al. after removing Kennedy

and ever since in total control of all foriegn and domestic policies of

the U.S. and the UN.? (Harry Dean)

Hi Harry,

The simple answer to that is yes, it is possible.

Nice to see you posting again. Having someone like yourself who was involved in the political milieu of the time offering their thoughts to the forum is valuable indeed.

Cheers,

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These were my kind of people, until Kennedy was actually killed.

The planned 'NEW AMERICANIST' scheme LDS/JBS with it's framework so cunningly in place for more than a half century, moved quickly {upon Kennedy's death} to consolidate and hold perpetual power over a bewildered government and a confused nation.

Who then can ever be tried or convicted for these awful crimes, when the guilty control, all legal and moral judgements, and dictate their own version of history?

{from my 1990 manuscript/book, YROJ Connection}

Harry

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

More from my 1990 manuscript/book YROJ Connection to the JFK assassination.

Quotes from the 'action arm' of the LDS/JBS assassination conspiracy.

" Finally, and probably most important of all courses of action, we would put our

weight into the political scales in this country just as fast and far as we could"

"...unless we can have enough of an awakening in this country, and enough of

a rebellion against the appeasement policies our government outside, and it's

communizing policies inside America, the Communists are going to succeed"

" In the course of the awakening of America, there was a rapidly rising

identification of the policies of the Kennedy administration with the plans of

the Communists."

" For unless we can eventually,and in time,reverse by political action ,the

gradual surrender of the United States to Communism, the ultimate alternative

of reversal by military uprising is fearful to contemplate.

...we are opposing a conspiracy...our determination to overthrow an entrenched

tyranny is the very stuff of which revolutions are made."

"...the result of our failure in this fight most positively will be concentration camps,

or worse, and soon, we must all stick together or we will surely hang separately."

------------------- -------------------- -----------------

No honest conservative really believed that we were trying to do more than call

the liberal establishment communist sympathizers in order to replace liberalism with conservatism. But we were unknowingly being used to help install this present

system that is surreptitiously wielding every power of the U.S. government to

force the extention of a purely materialistic religious empire that is intent on

redesigning the entire world in it's own 'communal' image! An effort that includes

brute force and isolation of resistant individuals and entire nations.

Harry Dean, 1990.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

MORE, from the 1990 manuscript/book, YROJ Connection to......

So powerful we had become after Kennedy's removal,...that JBS leader Welch

wrote to members.." we can take tremendous encouragement from the one huge

victory we have won over the communists."

" We have become very much a part of the cast,therefore, in the final act of this

gory performance".

"And I mean that last statement very literally."

Harry Dean, 1990

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kennedy stated, "the very system of government is in dire peril and may not survive my term in office." The President was describing the severe threat posed by extremely powerful cooperative civil and military sedition at work.

Harry Dean, 1990

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Harry,

When did JFK say this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi, Mark

A researcher would have to find the details on such statements

as this, as I only recall Kennedy warning the public re: disruptive

forces throughout the nation.

Harry

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another excerpt from the 1990 MS/Book, YROJ Connection to JFK Asaassination.....

ALL {JBS} John Birch Society members were quickly informed by special bulletin about the death of Jefferson Davis Tippit {J.D. Tippit} a Dallas, Texas police officer. Tippit was allegedly killed by Lee Oswald. The case has been confused and disputed. Oswald denied the charge. It remains unsolved and unproven. Tippit's death remains clouded in mystery.

There is no mystery about Tippit's connections. He worked week-ends in a Dallas restaurant owned by another John Birch Society member.

Another {JBS} special bulletin also stated; "We were ready to step into that picture and ask our members for donations for the support of Tippit's family.... but it might be harmfull for us to do so".

Harry Dean, 1990

[JL Allen]

It's always a real pleasure (and, an honor) to read your posts, Harry. I've been wondering lately about multiple officers of the Dallas police department - and how they might have been tied together, philosophically, by their common membership in some religious/political organization - outside of the department. The Tippit reference is very interesting. Do you think the JBS might have played such a role with the Dallas police? Does anyone else know if there was some other "after hours" affiliation these officers may have had in common?

Edited June 22, 2005 by JL Allen

[John Simkin]

It has been my thought that the Mafia rather than the CIA were behind the JFK assassination because of the Kennedys efforts to fight organized crime.  However, given Lee Harvey Oswald's ties to the U.S. government, to Russia, and to anti-Cuba activities, does the Mafia scenario makes sense?  Was Lee Harvey Oswald the type of patsy that the Mafia would have used, or does Oswald's strange background imply more that the assassination conspiracy mostly involved government agents?  Thoughts anyone?

What is clear is that the Mafia would have found it difficult to cover-up Oswald's set-up as a patsy. For example, see this thread:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4152

How would the Mafia be able to cover-up the fact someone was playing the role of Oswald in Mexico City in September, 1963..

Silvia Duran was arrested by the Mexican police soon after the assassination. Duran was detained for several hours and was questioned extensively. Four days later she was arrested on the orders of the CIA. Richard Helms cabled Winston Scott: "We want to ensure that neither Silvia Duran nor Cubans get impression that Americans behind her rearrest. In other words, we want Mexican authorities to take responsibility for whole affair."

Duran was not interviewed by the Warren Commission. Instead they relied on the interviews carried out by the Mexican Police (in truth the CIA). According to Duran the police removed part of her statement that indicated that she had dounts about the man being Oswald (she for example told them he had blond hair). The Warren Commission then used this altered statement to claim that it was Oswald who visited the Cuban consul's office in Mexico City on 27th September, 1963.

This of course was very important. If someone was trying to set up Oswald there was a conspiracy at work. That is not what LBJ wanted to hear and so the Warren Report said it was Oswald who visited the Cuban consul's office. This is why the testimony of Silvia Duran and William Seymour before the House Select Committee on Assassinations is still classified.

[Harry J.Dean]

It's always a real pleasure (and, an honor) to read your posts, Harry.  I've been wondering lately about multiple officers of the Dallas police department - and how they might have been tied together, philosophically, by their common membership in some religious/political organization - outside of the department.  The Tippit reference is very interesting.  Do you think the JBS might have played such a role with the Dallas police?  Does anyone else know if there was some other "after hours" affiliation these officers may have had in common?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi, JL

There were many police officers in many police departments across the nation who were members of JBS, very much so here in California in JBS chapters/cells. They, as other regular members were sincere believers and followers of the so called 'apolitical/political' action arm, JBS organization. All members were made aware via Robert Welch 'Members Monthly Message' and special bulletins issued as events required. These were used at chapter meetings as directives to be followed by all members, werein Kennedy, Communism, and liberalism were the enemies within. These all fell to the tireless night and day, day and night, willing and supreme efforts of JBS and followers of every JBS 'fringe group' of followers.

Harry

[David Boylan]

Harry,

Why would Earl Ruby, Jack's brother, call Thomas Hill at the JBS headquarters in Belmont, Ma? Hill was VP(?) of the JBS and reportedly, HL Hunt's son-in-law.

Dave

[Harry J.Dean]

Harry,

Why would Earl Ruby, Jack's brother, call Thomas Hill at the JBS headquarters in Belmont, Ma? Hill was VP(?) of the JBS and reportedly, HL Hunt's son-in-law.

Dave

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi, David

Great to hear from you again.

I can only suggest re; Earl Ruby's call to Mr. Hill..and that is he must

have believed that the NEW POWER had successfully taken over the entire U.S.

Government upon Kennedy's death and thereby could save his brother Jack

Ruby.

Yes, Hill was high-up in JBS and often spoke for the leader Robert Welch. I met

Mr. Welch at the San Marino, California JBS office. Do not recall for certain but believe I met Mr.Hill at a Birch Society sponsored meeting at Knotts Berry Farm

also in 1963. Mr. Knott was extermely involved in all Birch Society and conservative political activities.

Harry

What is your take on Earl's call to JBS?

[JL Allen]

Thanks, Harry.

This all reminds me of Ruby's actual testimony before Earl Warren and Gerald Ford.

Ruby - "There is an organization here, Chief Justice Warren, if it takes my life at this moment to say it, and Bill Decker said be a man and say it, there is a John Birch Society right now in activity, and Edwin Walker is one of the top men of this organization - take it for what it's worth, Chief Justice Warren. Unfortunately for me, for me giving the people the opportunity to get in power, because of the act I committed, has put a lot of people in jeopardy with their lives. Don't register with you, does it?"

Earl Warren: "No; I don't understand that."

Ruby: "Would you rather I just delete what I said and pretend that nothing is going on?"

Earl Warren: "I would not indeed. I am only interested in what you want to tell this Commission. That is all I am interested in." (...Except for this part, which I find very disinteresting.)

Ruby: "Well, I said my life, I won't be living long now. I know that. My family's lives will be gone."

Maybe Earl was calling to apologize?

Edited June 23, 2005 by JL Allen