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Ron Ecker

Jack Lawrence

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[...]

As for Lawrence being an expert marksman in the AF, he told researcher Inkol that he almost didn't get to become an Air Policeman (his highest rank in the AF was Airman 2nd Class) because he was a "lousy shot." He also said that he was blinded in one eye by a rock at the age of 11. [...]

________________________________________

It's reasonable to assume that Jack Lawrence had "acceptably" good vision in both eyes when he went into the Air Force, otherwise they would have rejected him, wouldn't they? IMHO, therefore, it's possible that he did qualify as a "marksman" in the AF....

--Thomas

P.S. In Crossfire page 339, Jim Marrs writes that Lawrence borrowed "...one of the "firm's cars, after telling his boss he had a 'heavy date'." Small point, but I wonder if he borrowed a car that was owned and used by "the firm" (the dealership), or just one of the cars that was for sale? Does anyone know what year, make and model car he borrowed for his "heavy date?" (UH oh, I can feel a Ron Ecker joke coming: "If she was a really heavy date, he probably borrowed a pickup truck.")

--T

________________________________________

expanded and bumped

Edited by Thomas Graves

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[...] Lawrence said he went to "the piano bar" on the night of 11/21 with two other men from the dealership, stayed till closing time after the other two left, and had a bad hangover the next day.

_____________________

So much for the 11/21/63 "heavy date" Lawrence told his boss about, huh? Maybe he meant to say he needed a car because he had a date with two "heavies"....

_____________________

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[...]

As for Lawrence being an expert marksman in the AF, he told researcher Inkol that he almost didn't get to become an Air Policeman (his highest rank in the AF was Airman 2nd Class) because he was a "lousy shot." He also said that he was blinded in one eye by a rock at the age of 11. [...]

________________________________________

Hi Ron,

Lawrence must have had fairly good vision in both eyes when he went into the Air Force, otherwise they would have rejected him, wouldn't they? IMHO, therefore, it's possible that he did qualify as a "marksman" in the AF....

--Thomas

P.S. In Crossfire page 339, Jim Marrs writes that Lawrence borrowed "...one of the "firm's cars, after telling his boss he had a 'heavy date'." Does anyone know what year, make and model car he borrowed for his "heavy date?" (Uh-oh, I can feel a Ron Ecker joke coming: "If she was a really heavy date, he probably borrowed a pickup truck.")

I realize that most dealerships sell used cars as well as new, so maybe he borrowed a used non-Lincoln-Mercury? Maybe the car shows up in some of the photos/film taken in the parking lot/railroad yards after the assassination. Is it possible that the car he borrowed was one of the cars parked close to the fence with lots of "pacing" footprints and cigarette butts between the cars and the fence? Or maybe the mysterious black '57 Ford with Texas plates that Lee Bowers saw driving around the sealed-off railroad yards a few minutes before the assassination? Just thinking out loud....

--T

________________________________________

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Edited by Thomas Graves

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Lawrence said that the car he borrowed for his date was a demonstrator. Before leaving the YMCA for work the next day, he said that he heard four shots at Dealey Plaza while still inside the YMCA. Methinks that would be impossible, unless his hearing was as super as Howard Brennan’s eyesight. Anyway, the traffic was so heavy that he had to leave the car in a no-parking zone at the corner of Ervay and Main and walk to the Lincoln Mercury dealership to avoid being late. (Methinks that a presidential assassination and the resulting traffic jam would be a reasonable excuse for being late.) He said that the story that he went to the bathroom and vomited when he got to work is nonsense, though he did have a severe hangover. He was afraid that the car would be towed, so a retired Air Force colonel who worked at the dealership and whose name he can’t remember drove him to where he left the car.

It’s interesting to note that Phil Willis was a retired Air Force major, and worked at Lincoln Mercury. In the Shaw trial he testified that after making sure his wife and daughters were safe following the shooting, "later I went back and took pictures of the crowd." He went back from where? The dealership? Was Jack Lawrence with him?

As a suspect in the assassination, I think that Lawrence would be acquitted in a court of law after five minutes of deliberation. In fact his arrest after the assassination (based on his claim plus the absence of any arrest record) is another myth in the JFK case. That said, I’m not sure that I would buy a used car from him.

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Lawrence said that the car he borrowed for his date was a demonstrator. Before leaving the YMCA for work the next day, he said that he heard four shots at Dealey Plaza while still inside the YMCA. Methinks that would be impossible, unless his hearing was as super as Howard Brennan's eyesight. Anyway, the traffic was so heavy that he had to leave the car in a no-parking zone at the corner of Ervay and Main and walk to the Lincoln Mercury dealership to avoid being late. (Methinks that a presidential assassination and the resulting traffic jam would be a reasonable excuse for being late.) He said that the story that he went to the bathroom and vomited when he got to work is nonsense, though he did have a severe hangover. He was afraid that the car would be towed, so a retired Air Force colonel who worked at the dealership and whose name he can't remember drove him to where he left the car.

It's interesting to note that Phil Willis was a retired Air Force major, and worked at Lincoln Mercury. In the Shaw trial he testified that after making sure his wife and daughters were safe following the shooting, "later I went back and took pictures of the crowd." He went back from where? The dealership? Was Jack Lawrence with him?

As a suspect in the assassination, I think that Lawrence would be acquitted in a court of law after five minutes of deliberation. In fact his arrest after the assassination (based on his claim plus the absence of any arrest record) is another myth in the JFK case. That said, I'm not sure that I would buy a used car from him.

Ron,

Thanks for bringing this thread back to life after a couple of years. Now we can scoot on over to the Mary Ferrell Archives (MFA) and thanks to Rex Bradford and Jerry Rose, read Sheldon's articles and Jack Lawrence's response, which does prove interesting.

And Ron, what's Lawrence being suspected of again?

If I remember from reading Sheldon's article, Lawrence, now a minister living in the mid-west, says there's nothing suspicious about his behavior at all. He was a military veteran or worked for a defense contractor in Florida, then got a politically appointed Republican job back in his homestate of West Virginia, a job he lost with the election of JFK, who he supported and may have a volunteer in the crucial primary election there.

Out of work, Lawrence drifted to Dallas where he listened to motivational tapes in his YMCA hotel room and sold cars at the Lincoln-Mercury dealer. On the night before the assassination Lawrence said that had the company car and ended up at a piano bar on Mockingbird Lane.

Beverly Oliver, whether you believe she was the Babuska Lady or not, most certainly accompanied Jack Ruby to the Bon Vivant Room of the Cabana Motel lounge that same Thursday night. There, she danced with Donny Allen Vance while Ruby talked with his Chicago friend Mr. Meyers. She identified a photo of Jack Lawrence as the "Donny Allen Vance" she danced with before accompaning Ruby and Meyers for a steak dinner at the Egyptian Lounge, which is also on Mockingbird Lane.

I don't know what any of that means except the YMCA was a pretty busy place, and I think there's more to Jack Lawrence than meets the eye.

And there is another Jack Lawrence, a researcher who has attended some of the COPA conferences.

Small world.

BK

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I was surprised to see Walt Brown state in the JFK/Deep Politics Quarterly that Lawrence was photographed on the grassy knoll steps in the Nix and Muchmore films. Walt doesn't call this a theory, he doesn't say he thinks so, he states it as a matter of fact. Perhaps he could tell us why he states this.

He also says Phil Willis was "the boss" of Downtown Lincoln Mercury, and wonders why Willis was never asked about the goings-on there.

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Lawrence said that the car he borrowed for his date was a demonstrator. [...]

[...] Out of work, Lawrence drifted to Dallas where he listened to motivational tapes in his YMCA hotel room and sold cars at the Lincoln-Mercury dealer. On the night before the assassination Lawrence said that had the company car and ended up at a piano bar on Mockingbird Lane. [...]

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Not nitpicking here-- just wondering whether or not the company car was the demonstrator [(lol)] or a demonstrator (or just the company car)?

Peter, how do we know it was retrieved from behind the picket fence? (If so, maybe someone caught it on film...)

Thanks

--Thomas

________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves

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__________________________

According to Mary Ferrell's Database, Lawrence didn't check out of his YMCA room until 11/30/63. If so, why did it take him so long to "get out of Dodge?"

--Thomas

__________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Greg,

[...]

As for Lawrence being an expert marksman in the AF, he told researcher Inkol that he almost didn't get to become an Air Policeman (his highest rank in the AF was Airman 2nd Class) because he was a "lousy shot." He also said that he was blinded in one eye by a rock at the age of 11. He said he didn't own a firearm of any kind.

[...]

Ron

That's interesting. I didn't realize that the Air Force accepted people who are blind in one eye.

Maybe it was really desperate when Lawrence joined? Good thing they didn't make him a pilot! Just kidding.

Jack Lawrence doesn't look blind in either eye to me. Maybe he was a sharpshooter in the AF after all.

Photo_hsca_mugbook_044_jlawrence.jpg&sa=X&ei=UtIIUIjpKofi2QWju8HuBw&ved=0CAwQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNEPf3dMhWjPDkkV5M5FbIOpDTvsgQ

--Tommy :sun

edited and bumped

Edited by Thomas Graves

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That's interesting. I didn't realize that the Air Force accepted people who are blind in one eye.

Maybe it was really desperate when Lawrence joined? Good thing they didn't make him a pilot!

--Tommy :sun

All candidates admitted to the Air Force Academy must meet the vision requirements for commissioning in the United States Air Force. In addition, qualification for flying duties requires stringent color vision testing and depth perception.

Nearsightedness (myopia) commonly develops in the late teenage years. Therefore, it is possible you could meet the vision requirements for a flying career upon admission but not at graduation, thereby precluding you from ultimately being pilot or navigator qualified.

Procedures to reverse the nearsightedness, including radial keratotomy and similar surgical and non-surgical alterations to the cornea (orthokeratology), and experimental operations (photokeratectomy), disqualify you for all military programs.

If you wear contact lenses, you must remove hard lenses at least 21 days and soft lenses three days before the vision examination. An examination conducted without the required removal of contact lenses for the designated time is invalid and will delay your medical examination processing. If you wear prescription eyeglasses, bring them with you at the time of your physical examination. After you enter the Academy, periodic vision care and counseling will be provided at the eye clinic.

Potential Pilot and Navigator

Visual Acuity

No worse than 20/50 (pilot) and 20/200 (navigator).

Refractive Error

Refractive limits of +2.00/-1.00 in any meridian and .075 astigmatism (pilot) and +2.00/-1.50 in any meridian and 2.00 astigmatism (navigator).

Color Vision and Depth Perception

Successful completion of the Pseudoisochromatic Plates or Farnsworth Lantern color vision tests and the Vision Test Apparatus-Near and Distant (VTA-ND) or Titmus Stereofly or Randot Stereo or Verhoeff depth perception tests. These standards are the same for both pilot and navigator qualification.

http://www.usafa.net/mirrored/appenda.htm

I'm more interested in how Oswald came to work radar without any background in related fields and with a diagnosed hearing loss.

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here are two docs originally from dennis morisette's ( sp) site, if he is still out there there may be more information at his site...fwiw..b from memory ?? I think the Lawrence Docs are or were in the Gemberling Report..b

Edited by Bernice Moore

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Greg,

[...]

As for Lawrence being an expert marksman in the AF, he told researcher Inkol that he almost didn't get to become an Air Policeman (his highest rank in the AF was Airman 2nd Class) because he was a "lousy shot." He also said that he was blinded in one eye by a rock at the age of 11. He said he didn't own a firearm of any kind.

[...]

Ron

That's interesting. I didn't realize that the Air Force accepted people who are blind in one eye.

Maybe it was really desperate when Lawrence joined? Good thing they didn't make him a pilot!

Jack Lawrence doesn't look blind in either eye to me. Maybe he was a sharpshooter in the AF after all.

Photo_hsca_mugbook_044_jlawrence.jpg&sa=X&ei=UtIIUIjpKofi2QWju8HuBw&ved=0CAwQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNEPf3dMhWjPDkkV5M5FbIOpDTvsgQ

--Tommy :sun

edited and bumped

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That's interesting. I didn't realize that the Air Force accepted people who are blind in one eye.

Maybe it was really desperate when Lawrence joined? Good thing they didn't make him a pilot!

--Tommy :sun

All candidates admitted to the Air Force Academy must meet the vision requirements for commissioning in the United States Air Force. In addition, qualification for flying duties requires stringent color vision testing and depth perception.

Nearsightedness (myopia) commonly develops in the late teenage years. Therefore, it is possible you could meet the vision requirements for a flying career upon admission but not at graduation, thereby precluding you from ultimately being pilot or navigator qualified.

Procedures to reverse the nearsightedness, including radial keratotomy and similar surgical and non-surgical alterations to the cornea (orthokeratology), and experimental operations (photokeratectomy), disqualify you for all military programs.

If you wear contact lenses, you must remove hard lenses at least 21 days and soft lenses three days before the vision examination. An examination conducted without the required removal of contact lenses for the designated time is invalid and will delay your medical examination processing. If you wear prescription eyeglasses, bring them with you at the time of your physical examination. After you enter the Academy, periodic vision care and counseling will be provided at the eye clinic.

Potential Pilot and Navigator

Visual Acuity

No worse than 20/50 (pilot) and 20/200 (navigator).

Refractive Error

Refractive limits of +2.00/-1.00 in any meridian and .075 astigmatism (pilot) and +2.00/-1.50 in any meridian and 2.00 astigmatism (navigator).

Color Vision and Depth Perception

Successful completion of the Pseudoisochromatic Plates or Farnsworth Lantern color vision tests and the Vision Test Apparatus-Near and Distant (VTA-ND) or Titmus Stereofly or Randot Stereo or Verhoeff depth perception tests. These standards are the same for both pilot and navigator qualification.

http://www.usafa.net...red/appenda.htm

I'm more interested in how Oswald came to work radar without any background in related fields and with a diagnosed hearing loss.

Greg,

Do you think Lawrence really was blind in one eye? In his photo (which I tried to post), he sure looks like he has two good eyes.

I think he lied when he said he'd been blind in one eye since the age of eleven.

--Tommy :sun

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Greg,

I agree that it doesn't sound like much of a framing. How could the conspirators know, for example, that Lawrence would leave the car where he did, so that whoever took him back to pick it up could conveniently lie about where he had left it?

As for Lawrence being an expert marksman in the AF, he told researcher Inkol that he almost didn't get to become an Air Policeman (his highest rank in the AF was Airman 2nd Class) because he was a "lousy shot." He also said that he was blinded in one eye by a rock at the age of 11. He said he didn't own a firearm of any kind.

That said, according to Inkol's article there were some odd or interesting things about Downtown Lincoln Mercury where Lawrence worked. To begin with, it was from this dealership that an Oswald imposter took a car on a test drive, driving it along the same route through Dealey Plaza that the motorcade would take. The salesman on the test drive, Albert Guy Bogard, didn't want to get involved by reporting the incident after the assassination and arrest of Oswald, and the dealership thought that bringing attention to the incident would be bad publicity. Lawrence thought that the incident should be reported and made the call himself, which was what got him fired.

The story of Lawrence running in muddy and throwing up after the assassination, which Lawrence says was nonsense, also had to come from personnel at the dealership.

Inkol states that Downtown Lincoln Mercury was at the corner of Commerce and Industrial, where JFK's limo would have turned had an alternate motorcade route been chosen. (Why wouldn't the turn have been at Main and Industrial?) This was one reason Inkol originally proposed that Lawrence might have been a potential shooter, not at the plaza but at the dealership.

Salesman Bogard supposedly committed suicide on February 14, 1966. (Inkol's cited source for this is Penn Jones, so I take it with a grain of salt.) And Inkol says that he was able to identify 16 employees of Downtown Lincoln Mercury at the time of the assassination. Within a few months, at least 10 of them no longer worked there. While car salesmen might change jobs frequently, 4 of the 10 were not salesmen. "Why," Inkol asks, "did so many employees leave the dealership at this time?"

Ron

Was the dealership near a railroad crossing, where the limo would have to SLOW DOWN due to the raised level of road bc of the tracks? I just watched part of Jim Fetzer's The Real Deal regarding the TSBD and this was one of the secondary kill zones if Dealey Plaza got bypassed,,,

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Ron,

[

According to the FBI, Osborne's Canadian passport was issued on October 10, 1963, through the Canadian Consulate in New Orleans (CE 2195, p. 31, in WC v. 25).

According to Mary Ferrell's database:

LAST LAWRENCE FIRST JACK ALAN MID/AKA CARROLL

ADDRESS 1964: 204 Ninth Ave., South Charleston, W. VA

'PHONE (304) 744-3168; RE 4-0857

SOURCES WC 26, pp. 452-453, 686-688, 704; CE 2970; CE 3080, CE 3089, CE 3093; CD

85, pp. 373-377; CD 205, pp. 211-213, 222-223; CD 329, pp. 61-78; CD

1546, p. 118; Forgive My Grief, Vol. 11, Jones, p. 124; The Third

Decade, July 1991, pp. 1-17, "Jack Lawrence, Assassin or Fall Guy," by

Sheldon Inkol; The Third Decade, September 1992, pp. 1-17, "Jack

Lawrence Responds," by Sheldon Inkol.

COMMENT DOB: 9/14/38; SS # 236-58-6645. Wife: Linda. Salesman at Downtown

Lincoln Mercury, Dallas, TX at time LHO allegedly took demonstration

ride. Lawrence allegedly left demonstrator car behind the picket fence

at Dealey Plaza at 12:30 p.m., 11/22, when he was unable to drive

through the Dealey Plaza area to the dealership. He was fired by

Downtown Lincoln on 11/23/63. Lawrence came to Dallas in late October

1963 and stayed at YMCA on Ervay St. He came from West Virginia but

claimed to have worked for a New Orleans car dealer on Carondolet.

Checked out of Dallas YMCA (Room 811) on November 30, 1963 (Saturday),

leaving address: 144 10th Ave., South Charleston, West Virginia (304) RI

4-0857. On 11/27/63, Lawrence told Gene Barnes of NBC that he was going

to San Diego to get job similar to position he had held with NASA

previously (CD 85, p. 376).

I thought that last line about NASA was interesting. Didn't several former Reilly Coffee Company employees go to work for NASA?

Steve Thomas

Wasn't there an explosion and subsequent fire reported at the Dallas YMCA on 11/22 or 11/23 ? (destruction of Jack Lawrence evidence?)

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