Echoes

[Pat Speer]

Need I point out that the area directly behind the Newmans was quite a bit east of the stockade fence...

It seems Mr. Newman has fallen into the habit of telling people what he thinks they want to hear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pat...you should check the evidence before making such definite statements.

Jack

I have done just that, Jack, and Newman said it was the THIRD shot, at least five seconds later, that he interpreted to have come from behind him. He said he thought the first two shots were close together and that he thought they were firecrackers. Perhaps you can put up a photo of Newman's position at the third shot, with an arrow. Newman, as Zapruder, seems to have honestly believed the head shot came from behind him, but NOT from the stockade fence.

We should all be aware there is an ongoing controversy over just what the "knoll" is. While it was initially interpreted as being the grassy area between Zapruder and Newman, in front of the arcade, it is now used interchangeably with the parking lot beyond the stockade fence, due west of Zapruder. I believe many of those who originally said knoll never meant for their words to mean the parking lot.

[Jack White]

Pat...I discussed this for 20 minutes with Newman in November.

How long have you discussed it with him?

Jack

[Pat Speer]

Pat...I discussed this for 20 minutes with Newman in November.

How long have you discussed it with him?

Jack

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't doubt that he told you what you say he told you. This just isn't what he's been saying all along. It kinda reminds me of an experience I had last year when I met Robert Groden. He agreed there was an entrance where Humes said there was an entrance. He swore he'd always said so. I got back to my room and checked his book. He'd never said so.

[Lee Forman]

Pat...I discussed this for 20 minutes with Newman in November.

How long have you discussed it with him?

Jack

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jack,

You're privileged there.

I've tried to contact Bill Newman multiple times - the email failed, and the messages I left on his answering machine went unanswered - that being said, here's one:

http://www.jfk-online.com/wnewman.html

DALLAS SHERIFF’S STATEMENT: November 22, 1963. 19H490    

    

   I thought the shot had come from the garden directly behind me, that was on an elevation from where I was as I was right on the curb.  I do not recall looking toward the Texas School Book Depository. I looked back in the vacinity [sic] of the garden.

Two [Clay Shaw Trial]:

Q: Do you have any impression as to the direction from which the shots came?

A: Yes, sir. From the sound of the shots, the report of the rifle or whatever it was, it sounded like they were coming directly behind from where I was standing.

Q: Now would you push the microphone aside and step down to the aerial photograph and identify that general area, just the general area from which the sounds came.

A: In my opinion, the sounds of the shots sounded as if they had come from directly behind me (indicating). I was standing near this light standard here, and I thought the shots were coming from back here, and apparently everybody else did because they all ran in that direction.

Three:

http://www.texasmonthly.com/mag/1998/nov/e...ning+news&hl=en

And, when I'm talking with people, I'll say it came from behind, lot of times I'll pause to wait -- if you're a researcher, you've already got an opinion, you want to know [from] behind where: to my left, meaning the school book depository? To my right, meaning the picket fence?... I always just leave it with 'behind,' because I reacted to what...I saw in the car.

Four:

http://www.jfk-assassinat.com/jfk_assassination/organ.htm

The November 22, 1963 affidavits of the Newman couple were published in Volume XIX of the Hearings; subsequently to be misrepresented by critics like Meagher, Thompson and Marrs. It wasn't until 1984, in the TV production On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald, that Vincent Bugliosi simply asked William Newman to specify the bit about the "garden directly behind me" that was in his affidavit of November 22, 1963. Newman specified the area to the east of the pergola; between the Depository and Newman's position on November 22 is a landscaped walkway.

Five: Ian Griggs interview

WEN:  And what ran through my mind was, with that third shot, that the shots were coming from behind us, directly over the top of our heads. Normally, when I’m talking with a group or someone like yourselves, I leave it at that and the person gets round to saying “Behind where? Behind to your left or behind to your right?” - the left meaning the school book depository and the right meaning the picket fence. From my view it was just “behind” and it was a visual impact it had on me of seeing the head wound and seeing President Kennedy go across the seat. That gave me the impression of the shot being fired from behind and if I refer to it as “shots” I’m really talking about three shots - the first two and then the one I recognized as gunfire.

I can't find the one that I believe I read once where Newman says he was never certain as to whether the shots had come from his left or from his right. Still searching for that one.

If Newman had continued to follow the Lincoln, then the area directly behind him at the time of the final shot(s) would not be the parking area or the picket fence. Inset from Moorman - I didn't spend much time on it - sorry.

- lee

Edited July 6, 2005 by Lee Forman

[Jack White]

Lee...your illustration is VERY MISLEADING.

You have lined up the west pedestal seen in Moorman with the east

pedestal seen in your photo.

Your photo is taken much farther west than the Moorman position.

I suggest you revise or remove your illustration.

Jack

Edited July 6, 2005 by Jack White

[Lee Forman]

Lee...your illustration is VERY MISLEADING.

You have lined up the west pedestal seen in Moorman with the east

pedestal seen in your photo.

Your photo is taken much farther west than the Moorman position.

I suggest you revise or remove your illustration.

Jack

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Jack.

Yep - my error - I knew I should have spent more time on it. Let's just stick with an internet jpeg of the polaroid for now.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

http://www.jfk-assassinat.com/jfk_assassination/organ.htm

The November 22, 1963 affidavits of the Newman couple were published in Volume XIX of the Hearings.....It wasn't until 1984, in the TV production On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald, that Vincent Bugliosi simply asked William Newman to specify the bit about the "garden directly behind me" that was in his affidavit of November 22, 1963. Newman specified the area to the east of the pergola; between the Depository and Newman's position on November 22 is a landscaped walkway.

If this is in fact correct, and I can only assume that Bill Newman is the individual that could confirm to anyone's complete satisfaction then the man in Croft, IMO, is indeed one of the shooters. But again, I personally see a shooter in this location, as well as behind the picket fence. Just my opinion. And in terms of elevation, sure seems as if this guy would have had the opportunity for the throat shot - and he had a wide open view for the occiput.

If anyone has a good address for Bill Newman, I'd appreciate your sending this photo to him for his comments?

- lee

[Nic Martin]

Is there any reason to believe there was a possible shot from behind Zapruder in the pergola? The openings were wide enough, enough cover for a potential diversion or actual shot. Has anyone ever taken a picture through the openings to see if JFK riding in the car could have been seen from that angle?