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Guest Stephen Turner

Warning to Jimmy Carter.

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Let's get real conspiratorial.

Has anyone mentioned before that Mr. Harvey's first name is the last name of the man convicted of killing Martin Luther King, Jr?

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Yes Tim, the fact that the name RAY was  also used has been pointed out by me now several times, as well as Stephen.

That is why we believe they are FAKE names.

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I've been spending too much time on the Forum;

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Your words. How DO you have so much time? What do you do for a living?  I checked your bio and it does not say.

I asked this question before and noted you gave some "I'm  CIA" response, togther with a "code name" "AM" something, an obvious reference  to "AM/LASH, but I was out of town,  so could not post...(.And spent almost no time on the forum as my husband was in the hospital. )    DM

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I remain convinced the people who are asserting this theory would be, if they were dogs, barking up the wrong tree.

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Asserting WHAT theory?? DM

Dawn

(still experimenting with the color thing, so bear with me...)

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I have posted it before, Dawn. You ought to read my posts. You might learn something.

I am a full-time disinformation agent working for the DGI and the CIA. As a double agent I double my money!

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Guest Stephen Turner

Dawn, Tim, I believe, works in the Hotel trade.No doubt he will correct me if I am wrong......Steve.

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Guest Stephen Turner

The question naturally arises as to whether either of these men actually existed, Or were simply a criptic message to ol Jimbo, "Stop poking your nose into big boys business"However 79, seems a little late in the day for these shenanigans,if my math is correct thats the best part of three years into his presidency, and with the october surprise still to come.As you can see Tim we are a long way from a theory on this one yet.But it never hurts to ask questions, and do the research.

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I have always felt that a little alliteration was in order.

JFK assassination research is also known for assonance. That's what occurs when two or more people, as Pat Speer put it, are arguing out of their asses.

Ron

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Guest Stephen Turner

Here's some more on this, apparantly the men did exist.

May 5th, 1979 Ten minutes before President Carter was due to speak at the civic center mall in Los Angeles, Raymond Lee Harvey was arrested carrying a pistol. He later told the Police that he and another man (Oswaldo Ortiz) were hired to create a diversion, so that Mexican hitmen armed with rifles could kill Carter..

I will try to find out who he claimed these "Mexican hitmen" were....Steve.

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Guest Stephen Turner

James, I know its a long shot, but do you happen to have a photo of Mr Harvey or Mr Ortiz? Thanks Steve.

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Guest Stephen Turner

Here's a much fuller version, the implications of this make the flesh creep.

Jimmy Carter had asked for a national TV spot to answer his critics. It was assumed that he would be announcing sweeping policy changes, to kick start the re-election campaign. Before the TV appearance Carter traveled to California to address a Hispanic crowd on Cinco de Mayo,Mexican ind day. A few days later a handfull of newspapers carried a small story stating that a "grubby transient" had been arrested at the mall on suspicion of the attempted assassination of the President, A few days later another news item revealed that a 35 year old anglo was being held on bail of $50,000 for conspiring to kill Carter. Finally, a one time story in May 21st 1979, in Newsweek, confirmed that the suspect was arrested by secret service agents, he was carrying a .22calibre eight shot revolver, and 70 rounds of BLANK ammo. The suspect implicated a second man, a 21 year old Hispanic who was arrested on bail of $100,000. The second man addmitted that they had test fired the pistol, using blank rounds the night before Carter was due to speak. he said they had been hired by two Mexican hitmen to create a diversion, whilst they assassinated Carter using high powered rifles.

Lending credence to their story both suspects lead Police to the shabby Alan Hotel,which overlooked the mall where Carter was due to speak. Investigators found an empty rifle case, and THREE rounds of live ammo, in a room rented under the name, Umberto Camacho, he had checked out on the day of Carters visit, no further trace of the hitmen could be found. Also no further news stories appeared and the case against LEE HARVEY, & OSWALDO has never been made public. Oh BTW, Carter never did announce any major policy changes, and remained largely supine throughout the Re-election campaign, you all know the rest ;)

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Here's a much fuller version, the implications of this make the flesh creep.

Jimmy Carter had asked for a national TV spot to answer his critics. It was assumed that he would be announcing sweeping policy changes, to kick start the re-election campaign. Before the TV appearance Carter traveled to California to address a Hispanic crowd on Cinco de Mayo,Mexican ind day. A few days later a handfull of newspapers carried a small story stating that a "grubby transient" had been arrested at the mall on suspicion of the attempted assassination of the President, A few days later another news item revealed that a 35 year old anglo was being held on bail of $50,000 for conspiring to kill Carter. Finally, a one time story in May 21st 1979, in Newsweek, confirmed that the suspect was arrested by secret service agents, he was carrying a .22calibre eight shot revolver, and 70 rounds of BLANK ammo. The suspect implicated a second man, a 21 year old Hispanic who was arrested on bail of $100,000. The second man addmitted that they had test fired the pistol, using blank rounds the night before Carter was due to speak. he said they had been hired by two Mexican hitmen to create a diversion, whilst they assassinated Carter using high powered rifles.

Lending credence to their story both suspects lead Police to the shabby Alan Hotel,which overlooked the mall where Carter was due to speak. Investigators found an empty rifle case, and THREE rounds of live ammo, in a room rented under the name, Umberto Camacho, he had checked out on the day of Carters visit, no further trace of the hitmen could be found. Also no further news stories appeared and the case against LEE HARVEY, & OSWALDO has never been made public. Oh BTW, Carter never did announce any major policy changes, and remained largely supine throughout the Re-election campaign, you all know the rest ;)

Stephen, a quick google got this; an appeal case in CT for an armed robbery: http://www.jud.state.ct.us/external/supapp...Oap/71ap504.pdf

"While in the garage, the defendant [Oswaldo Ortiz, Jr] and Antonio Camacho..."

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Here's a much fuller version, the implications of this make the flesh creep.

. Also no further news stories appeared and the case against LEE HARVEY, & OSWALDO has never been made public. Oh BTW, Carter never did announce any major policy changes, and remained largely supine throughout the Re-election campaign, you all know the rest ;)

That this story was then just DROPPED raises further suspicion to me at least, that it was a THREAT to Carter, using men with fake names (fake id's) to scare the crap out of Carter.

I suspect Carter knows all about the October Surprise, for example, but real men with real guns and fake assassin sounding names have a way of inducing a lifetime of silence.

If these were real names there would be arrest records, as well as records of a trial or plea. Court documents are public documents. This story reminds me of the Dallas "tramps".

Dawn

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Guest Stephen Turner
Here's a much fuller version, the implications of this make the flesh creep.

Jimmy Carter had asked for a national TV spot to answer his critics. It was assumed that he would be announcing sweeping policy changes, to kick start the re-election campaign. Before the TV appearance Carter traveled to California to address a Hispanic crowd on Cinco de Mayo,Mexican ind day. A few days later a handfull of newspapers carried a small story stating that a "grubby transient" had been arrested at the mall on suspicion of the attempted assassination of the President, A few days later another news item revealed that a 35 year old anglo was being held on bail of $50,000 for conspiring to kill Carter. Finally, a one time story in May 21st 1979, in Newsweek, confirmed that the suspect was arrested by secret service agents, he was carrying a .22calibre eight shot revolver, and 70 rounds of BLANK ammo. The suspect implicated a second man, a 21 year old Hispanic who was arrested on bail of $100,000. The second man addmitted that they had test fired the pistol, using blank rounds the night before Carter was due to speak. he said they had been hired by two Mexican hitmen to create a diversion, whilst they assassinated Carter using high powered rifles.

Lending credence to their story both suspects lead Police to the shabby Alan Hotel,which overlooked the mall where Carter was due to speak. Investigators found an empty rifle case, and THREE rounds of live ammo, in a room rented under the name, Umberto Camacho, he had checked out on the day of Carters visit, no further trace of the hitmen could be found. Also no further news stories appeared and the case against LEE HARVEY, & OSWALDO has never been made public. Oh BTW, Carter never did announce any major policy changes, and remained largely supine throughout the Re-election campaign, you all know the rest ;)

Stephen, a quick google got this; an appeal case in CT for an armed robbery: http://www.jud.state.ct.us/external/supapp...Oap/71ap504.pdf

"While in the garage, the defendant [Oswaldo Ortiz, Jr] and Antonio Camacho..."

Thanks Greg, amazing coincidence or??? The "Carter" Ortiz would have been 42 at the time of this offence. and way off his 79 L/A base. but, who knows....Steve.

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Guest Stephen Turner
Here's a much fuller version, the implications of this make the flesh creep.

. Also no further news stories appeared and the case against LEE HARVEY, & OSWALDO has never been made public. Oh BTW, Carter never did announce any major policy changes, and remained largely supine throughout the Re-election campaign, you all know the rest ;)

That this story was then just DROPPED raises further suspicion to me at least, that it was a THREAT to Carter, using men with fake names (fake id's) to scare the crap out of Carter.

I suspect Carter knows all about the October Surprise, for example, but real men with real guns and fake assassin sounding names have a way of inducing a lifetime of silence.

If these were real names there would be arrest records, as well as records of a trial or plea. Court documents are public documents. This story reminds me of the Dallas "tramps".

Dawn

oh yeah, the three dallas "down and outs" sprang to my mind as well. also lets remember that this all took place at a time when Carter is reportedly talking about re-opening the JFK case "To get this country right we might have to go right back to what happened to Kennedy." That and the threat of a reinvigorated Carter actully slugging it out with the gipper probably triggered (no pun) this little warning

Steve..

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I read somewhere that Carter's VP Walter Mondale was CIA. I have no idea if there is any evidence for the claim, and at the time I thought little of it (perhaps because of the source, which I now can't recall). But if true, that could add another fly to the ointment.

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Guest Stephen Turner
I read somewhere that Carter's VP Walter Mondale was CIA. I have no idea if there is any evidence for the claim, and at the time I thought little of it (perhaps because of the source, which I now can't recall). But if true, that could add another fly to the ointment.

HIS OWN VICE PRESIDENT RON, WHY THATS LIKE THINKING LBJ WAS IN ON THE JFK ASSASSINATION ;) So what have we got, in April, Carter hints that he might re-open the Kennedy case. He is being attacked by the media and right wingers who portray him as a "lame duck" president, his problems in the middle east only add to this picture. Carter asks for (and is given) a TV slot to reply to his critics. Those around him say he is going to announce major policy changes, and that he plans a fight back against the Reaganites.On the day before his appearance one Ray lee Harvey is arrested armed with a pistol and lots of blank ammo, he is held on a charge of attempted assassination, he gives up a second man, Oswaldo Ortiz,who tells investigators that they had been hired by two Mexican hitmen to create a disturbance, allowing the Mexicans time to assassinate Carter. When Police search the Hotel room of one Umberto Camacho they find a rifle case, and three live rounds, the would be assassins however have disappeared into the ether. Nothing further is known about either the Mexicans, or the fate of Harvey & Ortiz. Meanwhile Carter calmly goes down without a fight...

Edited by Stephen Turner

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Guest Stephen Turner

Sorry double post..

Edited by Stephen Turner

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