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Guest Stephen Turner

Warning to Jimmy Carter.

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Guest Stephen Turner
"if this is what occurred- I don't think qualifies as a "non-event".

that's just it - it never occured -

What a strangely incurious attitude for a researcher in the Kennedy case to articulate. The Chicago "Assassination" attempt never happened, Nor Miami, by your logic we shouldn't waste our time in these areas either.Sometimes its not the notes you play, but those you choose not to that are enlightening.

Edited to add....BTW, welcome to the Forum.

Edited by Stephen Turner

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My impression is that it was a staged, phony assassination plot for the purpose of intimidation. As has been pointed out, if it was a real assassination plot, "Lee Harvey" and "Oswaldo" would not have known beans about anything else other than the starter gun that they were supposed to use. They would not have known about shooters with rifles and the hotel where they were staying. The fact that they knew all these things, with an empty rifle case and three live shells found in the hotel room, tells us that the whole thing was staged precisely for all the details to be immediately known, including the names being used, as a message to Carter.

These two guys were no doubt paid, as well as assured that any charges against them wouldn't stick, and of course they didn't.

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Guest Stephen Turner

Some more information on this.

After Carter cancelled his national TV appearance (Called to announce sweeping policy changes) he went into seclusion at Camp David, and sought advice from his consultants on how to respond to the situation. He reportedly told Billy Graham," I have lost control of the government" History records that no sweeping changes were made by the Carter administration, and he continued to appear weak in the eyes of the American public. The only time the whole story was published, was a one off in the May, 21 1978 edition of Newsweek. Add to this the Reagan/ Casey "October surprise" and it looks like some very powerful people had decided that one term was more than enough for Carter, by hook, or by crook. And the long term beneficiaries appear to be the Bush clan.

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I’ve come across another “coincidence” in this bizarre case.

In December 1963 a Western diplomat informed the CIA that a “very good” source told him that the JFK assassination was the result of a plot by the Chinese Communists and Castro, and that Castro was very concerned about where the investigation may lead (CE2946).

In January 1964 the CIA sent a memo re the Chicom/Castro plot allegation to the FBI, quoting the diplomat: “It seems that they are worried about what may have happened to a Mexican called ‘Camacho.’ He is small, fat, with lots of black hair. Under a respectable business cover he appears to be the real head of an ‘action-reseau’ (action net) covering all of Texas and even, perhaps, part of Mexico. I have been unable to find out his real name, but he is supposed to be supplied with funds and requirements by Ramon Cortes and Fernandez Feito. Camacho also seems to be a close friend of two Mexican millionaries named Pasquel or Pascual, who are involved in Mexican and/or Texan petroleum and who do not know the secret real activities of the former” (NARA 104-10400-10185).

As reported in Newsweek, the two Mexican accomplices of Raymond Lee Harvey and Oswaldo Espinoza had been staying in the Alan Hotel, and the room there where police found the empty shotgun case and three rounds of live ammo had been rented by a man named Umberto Camacho.

In the 1963 case, Camacho was not the real name of the Mexican being referred to (assuming this Mexican was a real person, irrespective of Chinese Communists). It is safe to assume that Camacho was also not the real name of the accomplice in the 1979 case (any more than Lee Harvey and Oswaldo were real names). It’s quite a coincidence that “Camacho” would be used in both cases as a false identity, if it was not the same man doing it.

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Guest Stephen Turner

Nice work Ron, curiouser, and bloody curiouser. When I started this thread I thought I had stumbled across a strange historical anomaly, but it now appears to go much deeper than that.

So to recap, what do we have. First the names, only a die-hard CT would fail to see the message being sent to Carter, Raymond LEE HARVEY/OSVALDO Espinoza ortiz. And Umberto Camacho, which in Carter's case provides a vanishing Mexican assassin (In some ways LHO was an assassin from Mexico) And in Kennedy's case an assassination link direct to Castro.

Then the strange indolent/casual manner in which the case is pursued, and the almost non reporting of this in all the mainstream media.

CBS EVENING NEWS, TUESDAY, MAY 29th, 1979

REPORTER WALTER CRONKITE.

(STUDIO) "Federal prosecutors in Louisiana are set to seek dismissal charges against Raymond Lee Harvey, in connection with the suspected Carter assassination attempt in LA. Insufficient eviedence is to be cited."

BEGIN TIME 5-42-40. PM

END TIME 5-43-00. PM.

And finally the complete non appearance of the touted radical policy chances Carter was due to announce in a planned TV appearance.

curiouser, and bloody curiouser....

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Stephen,

What are the sources on Carter cancelling a TV appearance and dropping policy changes?

It seems possible to me that Carter was resisting a change that the shadow government wanted, namely covert support of the muhajadeen in Afghanistan, to draw the Russians into what Brzzzzzinski joyously called the "Afghan trap." Carter approved such support, which virtually guaranteed a bloody war or what B called "Russia's Vietnam," in June, 1979.

I have no documentary proof that Carter was somehow pressured into this action. But promoting a war seems completely out of character for the peace-loving Carter, unless he only became the advocate for peace that he is in his later years.

Ron

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Guest Stephen Turner
Stephen,

What are the sources on Carter cancelling a TV appearance and dropping policy changes?

Ron

Source atribution Jim Marrs.

Quote on, "Carter asked for, and was granted, a national television spot during prime time. Many media pundits predicted that he was about to announce sweeping changes in Government, as well as new initiatives.

Quote off.

I will try and dig up the actual newspaper reports that made this claim. Steve.

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Ron wrote:

In January 1964 the CIA sent a memo re the Chicom/Castro plot allegation to the FBI, quoting the diplomat: “It seems that they are worried about what may have happened to a Mexican called ‘Camacho.’ He is small, fat, with lots of black hair. Under a respectable business cover he appears to be the real head of an ‘action-reseau’ (action net) covering all of Texas and even, perhaps, part of Mexico. I have been unable to find out his real name, but he is supposed to be supplied with funds and requirements by Ramon Cortes and Fernandez Feito. Camacho also seems to be a close friend of two Mexican millionaries named Pasquel or Pascual, who are involved in Mexican and/or Texan petroleum and who do not know the secret real activities of the former” (NARA 104-10400-10185).

I too ran across this document on the MFF website, which led me to start the thread re Fernandez Feito.

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Ron wrote:

In January 1964 the CIA sent a memo re the Chicom/Castro plot allegation to the FBI, quoting the diplomat: “It seems that they are worried about what may have happened to a Mexican called ‘Camacho.’ He is small, fat, with lots of black hair. Under a respectable business cover he appears to be the real head of an ‘action-reseau’ (action net) covering all of Texas and even, perhaps, part of Mexico. I have been unable to find out his real name, but he is supposed to be supplied with funds and requirements by Ramon Cortes and Fernandez Feito. Camacho also seems to be a close friend of two Mexican millionaries named Pasquel or Pascual, who are involved in Mexican and/or Texan petroleum and who do not know the secret real activities of the former” (NARA 104-10400-10185).

I too ran across this document on the MFF website, which led me to start the thread re Fernandez Feito.

The notion that Castro did it is silly enough. Now he's got Chinese Communists and shadowy characters connected to Mexican millionaires helping him? Who's this western diplomat that the CIA made the source of their memo?

Edited by Mark Stapleton

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Mark,

The diplomat was not identified. The Chicom business is of course hokum (I don’t think LBJ told Earl Warren, “We’ve got to cover this up, there are too many Chinamen to invade China.”) But the diplomat refers to real people (presumably including the man called Camacho). See the “Fernandez Feito” (aka Ignacio Hernandez Garcia) thread, which also mentions Mexican businessman Ramon Cortes Buenrostro:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...164entry52164

Ron

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Maybe this is a dumb question, but why not ask Carter and get his take on what really happened?

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Maybe this is a dumb question, but why not ask Carter and get his take on what really happened?

Good idea. Actually I thought about that once but then forgot it. I'll see if I can find an email address for him.

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Maybe this is a dumb question, but why not ask Carter and get his take on what really happened?

As if Carter hasn't been threatened with reprisals to his children already? I think he would have already said whatever he could, if he were so inclined. Now I am starting to wonder if the 'killer rabbit' story was another plant to make him look weak and ineffective.

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Maybe this is a dumb question, but why not ask Carter and get his take on what really happened?

As if Carter hasn't been threatened with reprisals to his children already? I think he would have already said whatever he could, if he were so inclined. Now I am starting to wonder if the 'killer rabbit' story was another plant to make him look weak and ineffective.

It's true that he may not reply, but why not invite him to the forum?

My dad taught me in highschool that you'll never know if you don't ask. Of course, that was on another subject -- but it may still apply.

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Guest Stephen Turner

Maybe this is a dumb question, but why not ask Carter and get his take on what really happened?

As if Carter hasn't been threatened with reprisals to his children already? I think he would have already said whatever he could, if he were so inclined. Now I am starting to wonder if the 'killer rabbit' story was another plant to make him look weak and ineffective.

It's true that he may not reply, but why not invite him to the forum?

My dad taught me in highschool that you'll never know if you don't ask. Of course, that was on another subject -- but it may still apply.

I suspect that Ex President Carter officially knows no more about this than we do, or has decided to let sleeping dogs lie. But Bill's right about inviting him to the forum, as the starter of this thread I will see what I can do. As a caviet, I invited Stryker McGuire, the first journalist to break the strory, to give us his take on what he remembered, I am still waiting for a reply..Steve.

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