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John Simkin

Religious Hatred Legislation

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In June the House of Commons saw the second reading of the Religious Hatred Bill. The wording of the bill is not very precise and so it will be difficult to define what religious hatred means. The comedian Rowan Atkinson has criticised the bill arguing that it will mean those who poke fun at religion will risk prosecution.

Stephen Tomkins, the author of “A Short History of Christianity” has attempted to test out this new legislation by establishing a website called Ship of Fools. It provides some jokes that may become illegal after the passing of the Religious Hatred bill.

http://www.shipoffools.com/

A few that I liked:

(1) Dyslexic Insomniac Atheist

Did you hear about the dyslexic insomniac atheist?

He lies awake at night wondering if there is a Dog.

(2) Paedophile

What do you give a paedophile who has everything?

A bigger parish

(3) Lord’s Prayer

A marketing consultant hired at KFC got an audience with the Pope and offered him a million dollars if he would change the Lord's Prayer from "give us this day our daily bread," to "give us this day our daily chicken".

The Pope refused the offer.

Two weeks later the consultant offered 10 million, but the Pope refused again. Another week later the offer was increased to 20 million.

The Pope accepted.

The following day the Pope briefed his staff. "I have some good news and some bad news," he said. "The good news is that we have just received 20 million dollars. The bad news is that we've lost the Hovis account."

(4) Confession

Michael took Kevin along with him to confession for moral support. Kevin waited in the pews while Michael approached the confessional.

"Forgive me father, I have sinned, I have been with a woman."

"Ah Michael," sighed the priest, "you have grieved the Holy Spirit. Tell me, was it Mary McCarthy?"

"I can't tell you, father," answered Michael, "I promised I wouldn't say, but forgive me, I have sinned, I have been with a woman."

"Michael, this is not what you have been taught by Mother Church. Was it Sinead O'Rourke?"

"I can't say, father, I promised I wouldn't, but forgive me, I have sinned, I have been with a woman."

"Ah, Michael, your poor mother and father would be heartbroken to know this. I wonder, was it Philomena Donnelly?"

"I can't tell you, father, I promised, forgive me, I have been with a woman."

"Michael, my son, I harboured such high hopes for you when you were an altar boy. Tell me, was it Therese Murphy?"

"Father, I can't say, I promised, forgive me father, I have sinned, I have been with a woman."

The priest pronounced, "Michael, you must say 50 Our Fathers and 30 Hail Marys."

"Thank you, father," a relieved Michael acknowledged, and went back to the pews where his mate Kevin was waiting.

"Michael, Michael, what did the father say?"

"He gave me 50 Our Fathers, 30 Hail Marys and four good leads."

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In June the House of Commons saw the second reading of the Religious Hatred Bill. The wording of the bill is not very precise and so it will be difficult to define what religious hatred means. The comedian Rowan Atkinson has criticised the bill arguing that it will mean those who poke fun at religion will risk prosecution.

Stephen Tomkins, the author of “A Short History of Christianity” has attempted to test out this new legislation by establishing a website called Ship of Fools. It provides some jokes that may become illegal after the passing of the Religious Hatred bill.

http://www.shipoffools.com/

A few that I liked:

(1) Dyslexic Insomniac Atheist

Did you hear about the dyslexic insomniac atheist?

He lies awake at night wondering if there is a Dog.

(2) Paedophile

What do you give a paedophile who has everything?

A bigger parish

(3) Lord’s Prayer

A marketing consultant hired at KFC got an audience with the Pope and offered him a million dollars if he would change the Lord's Prayer from "give us this day our daily bread," to "give us this day our daily chicken".

The Pope refused the offer.

Two weeks later the consultant offered 10 million, but the Pope refused again. Another week later the offer was increased to 20 million.

The Pope accepted.

The following day the Pope briefed his staff. "I have some good news and some bad news," he said. "The good news is that we have just received 20 million dollars. The bad news is that we've lost the Hovis account."

(4) Confession

Michael took Kevin along with him to confession for moral support. Kevin waited in the pews while Michael approached the confessional.

"Forgive me father, I have sinned, I have been with a woman."

"Ah Michael," sighed the priest, "you have grieved the Holy Spirit. Tell me, was it Mary McCarthy?"

"I can't tell you, father," answered Michael, "I promised I wouldn't say, but forgive me, I have sinned, I have been with a woman."

"Michael, this is not what you have been taught by Mother Church. Was it Sinead O'Rourke?"

"I can't say, father, I promised I wouldn't, but forgive me, I have sinned, I have been with a woman."

"Ah, Michael, your poor mother and father would be heartbroken to know this. I wonder, was it Philomena Donnelly?"

"I can't tell you, father, I promised, forgive me, I have been with a woman."

"Michael, my son, I harboured such high hopes for you when you were an altar boy. Tell me, was it Therese Murphy?"

"Father, I can't say, I promised, forgive me father, I have sinned, I have been with a woman."

The priest pronounced, "Michael, you must say 50 Our Fathers and 30 Hail Marys."

"Thank you, father," a relieved Michael acknowledged, and went back to the pews where his mate Kevin was waiting.

"Michael, Michael, what did the father say?"

"He gave me 50 Our Fathers, 30 Hail Marys and four good leads."

A bigger parish my Irish arse.

I took a call last Thursday wth *demands* from US child protection advocacy asking me to reduce the amount of child pornography British education was feeding onto the networks.

Added later

The prosecutors who were hounding the Catholic hierarchy more often than not had the unseemly parts of local administration under careful camouflage. The Catholic Church lost its immunity, they were not doing anything which was not mirrored by thousands of schools and local authorities throughout the USA. The victims associated with the civil abuses will not see million dollar settlements because the US taxpayer is not to be held liable for the excesses of officials.

Edited by Gregory Carlin

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Guest Stephen Turner

"A bigger parish my Irish arse.

I took a call last Thursday wth *demands* from US child protection advocacy asking me to reduce the amount of child pornography British education was feeding onto the networks.

OK Gregory,perhaps you would like to cite a few examples of the Child pornography that British education is feeding onto the networks, if you cant do this may I respectfully ask you to witdraw your above statement? These people from the US child protection advocacy, wouldn't be the same people who think that Harry Potter Encourages Devil worship would they? Steve. B)

Edited by Stephen Turner

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"A bigger parish my Irish arse.

I took a call last Thursday wth *demands* from US child protection advocacy asking me to reduce the amount of child pornography British education was feeding onto the networks.

OK Gregory,perhaps you would like to cite a few examples of the Child pornography that British education is feeding onto the networks, if you cant do this may I respectfully ask you to witdraw your above statement? These people from the US child protection advocacy, wouldn't be the same people who think that Harry Potter Encourages Devil worship would they? Steve.  B)

Why on earth should I withdraw the statement? How much sex crime will 400,000 teachers and school employees be associated with?

The gender ratio is universally the most significant aspect for estimating future levels of sexual abuse within the context of early years education.

The UK has traditionally used 'allegation' based vetting procedures and that risk strategy will anchor the level of sexual misconduct to male recruitment.

(The efficiency of vetting & barring systems is poor generally & in Britain will probably not register more than 3 percent of the paedophiles in education.)

It is not uncommon given the nature of such things, for British teachers to film children and exchange the photography with other predators.

I can think of recent UK examples which have been reported by national and local media. The abuses often involve significant numbers of children.

It does not take a train-load of culprits to exchange material via the internet & paedophile networks, for hundreds of British children to be affected.

The DfES is reluctant to address the problem. The British govt. have been under continuous pressure for at least a year to do something concrete.

The UK has systemic problems with educator sexual misconduct. The British govt. have never quite managed in the past to grasp the nettle.

The risk management in Cambridgeshire is a good example of how the British authorities have lost the plot in relation to 'trusted professional' abuse.

Edited by Gregory Carlin

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Guest Stephen Turner

Why on earth should I withdraw the statement? How much sex crime will 400,000 teachers and school employees be associated with?

The gender ratio is universally the most significant aspect for estimating future levels of sexual abuse within the context of early years education.

The UK has traditionally used 'allegation' based vetting procedures and that risk strategy will anchor the level of sexual misconduct to male recruitment.

(The efficiency of vetting & barring systems is poor generally & in Britain will probably not register more than 3 percent of the paedophiles in education.)

It is not uncommon given the nature of such things, for British teachers to film children and exchange the photography with other predators.

I can think of recent UK examples which have been reported by national and local media. The abuses often involve significant numbers of children.

It does not take a train-load of culprits to exchange material via the internet & paedophile networks, for hundreds of British children to be affected.

The DfES is reluctant to address the problem. The British govt. have been under continuous pressure for at least a year to do something concrete.

The UK has systemic problems with educator sexual misconduct. The British govt. have never quite managed in the past to grasp the nettle.

The risk management in Cambridgeshire is a good example of how the British authorities have lost the plot in relation to 'trusted professional' abuse.

Bravo, a fine example of appearing to say a lot, whilst actually saying nothing. How about a few facts, you know cite some actual cases, give some statistics, that sort of thing. You say,"how much sex crime will 400,00 teachers be associated with". well why dont you answer your own question, tell us so we can see if its above what is known of other groups, Biulders, long distance lorry drivers, clowns, or how about Catholic preists. You say " I can think of recent UK examples" Well of course you can, nobody is pretending that it doesn't happen, but once again no concrete examples are offered, for all I know you could be making this up from "whole cloth"Stop the know all pronouncements and give us the FACTS. Oh and BTW, I notice you didn't answer my question about the advocate group you mention, who are they, who funds them, is their orientation of a right wing nature, are they NGO, where do they obtain their statistics from. You right wingers love to bash teachers dont you, pretend they are responsible for all society's evils, well perhaps you should try looking a bit closer to home for a change. and before you ask, no I am not a teacher. Steve.

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Why on earth should I withdraw the statement? How much sex crime will 400,000 teachers and school employees be associated with?

The gender ratio is universally the most significant aspect for estimating future levels of sexual abuse within the context of early years education.

The UK has traditionally used 'allegation' based vetting procedures and that risk strategy will anchor the level of sexual misconduct to male recruitment.

(The efficiency of vetting & barring systems is poor generally & in Britain will probably not register more than 3 percent of the paedophiles in education.)

It is not uncommon given the nature of such things, for British teachers to film children and exchange the photography with other predators.

I can think of recent UK examples which have been reported by national and local media. The abuses often involve significant numbers of children.

It does not take a train-load of culprits to exchange material via the internet & paedophile networks, for hundreds of British children to be affected.

The DfES is reluctant to address the problem. The British govt. have been under continuous pressure for at least a year to do something concrete.

The UK has systemic problems with educator sexual misconduct. The British govt. have never quite managed in the past to grasp the nettle.

The risk management in Cambridgeshire is a good example of how the British authorities have lost the plot in relation to 'trusted professional' abuse.

Bravo, a fine example of appearing to say a lot, whilst actually saying nothing.

How about a few facts, you know cite some actual cases, give some statistics, that sort of thing. You say,"how much sex crime will 400,00 teachers be associated with". well why dont you answer your own question, tell us so we can see if its above what is known of other groups, Biulders, long distance lorry drivers, clowns, or how about Catholic preists. You say " I can think of recent UK examples" Well of course you can, nobody is pretending that it doesn't happen, but once again no concrete examples are offered, for all I know you could be making this up from "whole cloth"Stop the know all pronouncements and give us the FACTS. Oh and BTW, I notice you didn't answer my question about the advocate group you mention, who are they, who funds them, is their orientation of a right wing nature, are they NGO, where do they obtain their statistics from. You right wingers love to bash teachers dont you, pretend they are responsible for all society's evils, well perhaps you should try looking a bit closer to home for a change. and before you ask, no I am not a teacher. Steve.

If Ruth Kelly could read the same post you are having a problem with, the British Govt. could avoid a lot of political unpleasantness which is heading in that direction. The DfES has to face reality.

Teachers in the UK would be the only profession that makes the statistics. Other vocations such as clergy are not really a major factor. Teachers would be up there with step-fathers and cohabiting boyfriends.

I am a survivor of educator sexual misconduct. Thousands of children are sexually abused by teachers in the United Kingdom.

In the USA, public school teachers would be responsible for a hundred times more sex abuse than clergy. In the US they probably imprison more teachers in a few weeks than the UK is likely to do in a couple of years.

In developed countries, sex abuse is usually as common an issue as pregnancy or bullying concerns with advice helplines etc.

Edited by Gregory Carlin

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"A bigger parish my Irish arse.

I took a call last Thursday wth *demands* from US child protection advocacy asking me to reduce the amount of child pornography British education was feeding onto the networks.

OK Gregory,perhaps you would like to cite a few examples of the Child pornography that British education is feeding onto the networks, if you cant do this may I respectfully ask you to witdraw your above statement? These people from the US child protection advocacy, wouldn't be the same people who think that Harry Potter Encourages Devil worship would they? Steve.  :lol:

The engine establishing the levels of educator sexual misconduct in primary or early learning is directly related to the perecentage of active paedophiles within the general population.

If you estimate the latter figure, we can usefully work out how many the vetting and barring system removes. If you can do a little research and are feeling helpful, you should be able to tell me how big a problem it is.

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