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John Simkin

Anthony Summers: The Kennedy Conspiracy

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Again Carroll begs the question. When repeatedly asked to furnish a quote to back up his claim, he is unable to do so. Instead he shucks and jives to no avail. He is quick to make quips, but his facts are invariably lacking.

It is his modus operandi on this Forum.

I remember one post when I quoted John Armstrong extensively, and Carroll excerpted portions out of context and attributed the quotes to me. Trying to pin him down on his misstatements of fact is like trying to nail Jello to a wall.

In this last series of posts, Carroll amends his statement about what polls show Americans believe and spins it from when he first started.

Apparently to him, its the only recourse. There is something intellectually repugnant about making a false claim as Carroll did, then refusing to take responsibility for that claim when called on it.

Mike Hogan

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Guest John Gillespie
Again Carroll begs the question. When repeatedly asked to furnish a quote to back up his claim, he is unable to do so. Instead he shucks and jives to no avail. He is quick to make quips, but his facts are invariably lacking.

It is his modus operandi on this Forum.

I remember one post when I quoted John Armstrong extensively, and Carroll excerpted portions out of context and attributed the quotes to me. Trying to pin him down on his misstatements of fact is like trying to nail Jello to a wall.

In this last series of posts, Carroll amends his statement about what polls show Americans believe and spins it from when he first started.

Apparently to him, its the only recourse. There is something intellectually repugnant about making a false claim as Carroll did, then refusing to take responsibility for that claim when called on it.

Mike Hogan

_____________________

Mike,

"I remember one post when I quoted John Armstrong extensively, and Carroll excerpted portions out of context and attributed the quotes to me. Trying to pin him down on his misstatements of fact is like trying to nail Jello to a wall. "

Perhaps the lad gets into his cups early...JG

Edited by John Gillespie

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Show us one poll that corroborates your assertion that:

"Most Americans consider themselves open-minded, and yet opinion polls consistently show that
they believe the evidence proves that JFK was the victim of a conspiracy."

"Most Americans believe the evidence proves that JFK was the victim of a conspiracy."[/indent]

Emphasis on the bold type. Show us the poll questions that support your claim. Can you do that?

If Messrs Hogan & Gillespie don't like ABC, CBS or Zogby, then I suggest they try the Gallup Poll, if they can afford the subscription:

November 21, 2003

Americans: Kennedy Assassination a Conspiracy

No consensus about who was involved

by Lydia Saad

Three-quarters of Americans believe that more than one man was involved in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy 40 years ago [Hint: If more than one man was involved, then there was a conspiracy]. Only 19% of Americans think the assassination was the work of a single individual. But when asked who else might have been behind the assassination, no more than 37% of the public believes any single entity or individual was involved. The Mafia gets the most mentions, followed closely by the CIA. Relatively few believe Lyndon Johnson, the Soviet Union, or Cuba were involved.

> The content you are attempting to access is only available to Gallup Poll On Demand subscribers. Please log in to read the full article.

http://poll.gallup.com/content/default.aspx?ci=9751&pg=1

Again Carroll begs the question. When repeatedly asked to furnish a quote to back up his claim, he is unable to do so. Instead he shucks and jives to no avail. He is quick to make quips, but his facts are invariably lacking.

Mike Hogan

I don't know what the Hogan/Gillespie choirboys are smoking, but I think I hear them singing "Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"

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In totally misconstruing Anthony Summers' comments about conspiracy Carroll wrote:

"Most Americans consider themselves open-minded, and yet opinion polls consistently show that they believe the evidence
proves
that JFK was the victim of a conspiracy."

Despite being repeatedly urged to quote one poll that uses the word "proves" or "proof" Carroll keeps failing to do so, post after post.

Carroll can post links until he is blue in the face, but none of them support his original statement.

The embittered, lonely, negative, snide and uncomprehending tone of Carroll's repeated posts lead me to believe that perhaps John Gillespie hit the nail on the head.

Mike Hogan

Edited by Michael Hogan

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In totally misconstruing Anthony Summers' comments about conspiracy Carroll wrote:

"Most Americans consider themselves open-minded, and yet opinion polls consistently show that they believe the evidence
proves
that JFK was the victim of a conspiracy."

Despite being repeatedly urged to quote one poll that uses the word "proves" or "proof" Carroll keeps failing to do so, post after post.

Mike Hogan

Maybe Hogan believes that most Americans are irrational, and that they believe things which have not been proven? Perhaps he thinks most Americans have never seen the Zapruder film, which proves [i SAY PROVES] to any sentient being that JFK was killed by a bullet from the right front?

Or will Hogan now join the ranks of those who tell us that the Zapruder film is a forgery?

Edited by J. Raymond Carroll

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I found a 1983 video entitled "The Killing of President Kennedy" in a Salvation Army today and picked it up for a buck. When I couldn't even find it on IMDB I assumed it was gonna be lame. I watched it tonight. To my surprise it was one of the best programs ever made on the assassination, and was actually made in 1978. It credited Mary Ferrell as an investigator. And Anthony Summers as producer. I'm curious about the history of this program. Was it ever shown on American television? If so, what was the response?

In the program there are interviews with Schweiker, Sprague, Gaudet, Odio, Veciana,Curry, Alexander,Cooper, Griffin, etc... The program only uses soundbites from these interviews. Are transcripts of the complete interviews available? If not, they should be. Perhaps the Ed Forum or the Mary Ferrell site would be willing to put them up online.

Anyhow, Mr. Summers, if you can tell us about your experiences creating this program, and any future plans you have for the interview footage, it would prove illuminating. Thank you.

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Guest John Gillespie

The embittered, lonely, negative, snide and uncomprehending tone of Carroll's repeated posts lead me to believe that perhaps John Gillespie hit the nail on the head.

Mike Hogan

_______________

Thanks, Mike. I like the investigator sensibility. We've seen this syndrome from J.R before. The ELNSU (see "embittered..." et al, as above) has contributed NOTHING to these spaces except, well, as above.

JG

"Anyhow, Mr. Summers, if you can tell us about your experiences creating this program, and any future plans you have for the interview footage, it would prove illuminating. Thank you." - PAT

__________________

Thank you, Pat. This is a terrific post if you don't mind my saying so. Lots of us will be waiting for more, hopefully from Mr. Summers.

Regards,

JG

Edited by John Gillespie

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When I couldn't even find it on IMDB I assumed it was gonna be lame. I watched it tonight. To my surprise it was one of the best programs ever made on the assassination, ]Anthony Summers [/b]as producer. I'm curious about the history of this program. Was it ever shown on American television? If so, what was the response?

Pat, maybe you should have trusted your first instinct.

THis program was released on US TV more than once. Am I recalling this correctly as the one in which Summers tries to direct blame for the assassination on Santos Trafficante?

Not too many takers on that, at least among serious researchers. If its the one I'm thinking of, then it was overpriced at a buck.

You might want to get a hold of Summers' next documentary which dealt with Marilyn Monroe. It claimed to be an outgrowth from his assination research, and it attempted to implicate JFK and RFK in MM's death. That theory is still being pushed by various charlatans. Sex always sell, and no doubt Summer's documentary serves as a useful distraction and smokescreen around the the JFK assassination probe.

PS I have heard that Summers is trying to parlay his MM theory into a Hollywood movie. I guess he needs the money, since his recent Sinatra book is ranked #580,518 on Amazon.

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When I couldn't even find it on IMDB I assumed it was gonna be lame. I watched it tonight. To my surprise it was one of the best programs ever made on the assassination, ]Anthony Summers [/b]as producer. I'm curious about the history of this program. Was it ever shown on American television? If so, what was the response?

Pat, maybe you should have trusted your first instinct.

THis program was released on US TV more than once. Am I recalling this correctly as the one in which Summers tries to direct blame for the assassination on Santos Trafficante?

Not too many takers on that, at least among serious researchers. If its the one I'm thinking of, then it was overpriced at a buck.

You might want to get a hold of Summers' next documentary which dealt with Marilyn Monroe. It claimed to be an outgrowth from his assination research, and it attempted to implicate JFK and RFK in MM's death. That theory is still being pushed by various charlatans. Sex always sell, and no doubt Summer's documentary serves as a useful distraction and smokescreen around the the JFK assassination probe.

PS I have heard that Summers is trying to parlay his MM theory into a Hollywood movie. I guess he needs the money, since his recent Sinatra book is ranked #580,518 on Amazon.

Summers was never on screen. Evidently, Summers' work on this documentary inspired him to write Conspiracy, a fine book. I'm not sure if I agree with all the conclusions of the documentary, but it went way beyond any other TV documentary in its interviews. Interviewing Veciana and Odio on camera is significant, IMO.

Whether the mob or the CIA was the major impetus behind the assassination, it appears Trafficante was involved. I suspect he functioned as a cut-out for LBJ and right-wing elements of the CIA. Do you believe he was innocent?

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Summers was never on screen.

Neither was Sam Goldwyn, as far as I know, but I am sure you would no dispute that he was pulling the strings at MGM.

Evidently, Summers' work on this documentary inspired him to write Conspiracy.

That's not what it says on the jacket . Conspiracy was published 1980 (capitalizing on the HSCA finding), while Goddess was puglished 6 years later, in 1986. The dust jacket on my PB edition of Goddess claims it arose out of his work on the JFK assassination. Summers MM documentary was based on his 1986 Goddess book which you can find on ABebook, also for a buck and also, IMO, seriously overpriced.

Seymour Hersh (and ABC television), by an amazing coincidence, took the same tack when Hershs switched from an inquiry into the asassination to a savage piece of character assassination of JFK. I can see no legitimate connection, beyond a common theme to persuade everyone that JFK should be left on the scrapheap of history.

Earlier in this thread Mr. Summers wrote: "And, yes, I did say to Lisa Pease that I don't think a conspiracy has been proven - for the good reason that there is no definite, uncontested proof of conspiracy..... But there's nothing finite, or indeed anything hard enough to "go to the bank" on. Any open-minded person ought to accept that."

In other words, very few members of this forum, with the possible exception of Brendan Slattery, are open-minded, if we are to believe Mr. Summers. By the same token it appears Mr. Summers, with his BBC background, holds a similar opinion of the majority of Americans.

a fine book. I'm not sure if I agree with all the conclusions of the documentary, but it went way beyond any other TV documentary in its interviews. Interviewing Veciana and Odio on camera is significant, IMO.

I fail to see how interviewing Veciana or Odio are significant. Odio almost certainly knows nothing of the asassination, while Veciana is, well shall we say, about as credible as Judith Baker.

"Whether the mob or the CIA was the major impetus behind the assassination, it appears Trafficante was involved. Do you believe he was innocent?

Trafficante was no Mother Theresa, by all accounts, but can you tell me where would I find any credible evidence that he was involed in the assassination of John F. Kennedy? I know I am not infallible, but in the 20 years I have studied the case I am still waiting to see a single CREDIBLE piece of evidence that Trafficante would be stupid enough to have any hand act or part in the assassination of JFK

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I found a 1983 video entitled "The Killing of President Kennedy" in a Salvation Army today and picked it up for a buck. When I couldn't even find it on IMDB I assumed it was gonna be lame. I watched it tonight. To my surprise it was one of the best programs ever made on the assassination, and was actually made in 1978. It credited Mary Ferrell as an investigator. And Anthony Summers as producer. I'm curious about the history of this program. Was it ever shown on American television? If so, what was the response?

In the program there are interviews with Schweiker, Sprague, Gaudet, Odio, Veciana,Curry, Alexander,Cooper, Griffin, etc... The program only uses soundbites from these interviews. Are transcripts of the complete interviews available? If not, they should be. Perhaps the Ed Forum or the Mary Ferrell site would be willing to put them up online.

Anyhow, Mr. Summers, if you can tell us about your experiences creating this program, and any future plans you have for the interview footage, it would prove illuminating. Thank you.

Excellent film!! I have not seen it in some years (own a copy of course).

It appears that Mr. Summers is no longer answering questions.

In 1986 I wrote to him regarding some of the comments he (allegedly) made about Jim Garrison consorting with mobsters, and also about his book. Received a two sentence response... He did not answer any of my questions, and made clear he had no interest in the case any longer.

Garrison, on the other hand, answered all of my questions including the fact that he had referred to Tony as "one of the CIA"s more accomodating prostitutes". Perhaps that explains his comment to Lisa Pease about a conspiracy never being proven.

Get real. All we need is a second shooter and we have conspiracy. Are we to believe that Mr. Summers actually thinks it was LHO, acting alone??? If so then who really wrote "Conspiracy"? He should go back and re-read his own excellent book.

Dawn

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I found a 1983 video entitled "The Killing of President Kennedy" in a Salvation Army today and picked it up for a buck. When I couldn't even find it on IMDB I assumed it was gonna be lame. I watched it tonight. To my surprise it was one of the best programs ever made on the assassination, and was actually made in 1978. It credited Mary Ferrell as an investigator. And Anthony Summers as producer. I'm curious about the history of this program. Was it ever shown on American television? If so, what was the response?

In the program there are interviews with Schweiker, Sprague, Gaudet, Odio, Veciana,Curry, Alexander,Cooper, Griffin, etc... The program only uses soundbites from these interviews. Are transcripts of the complete interviews available? If not, they should be. Perhaps the Ed Forum or the Mary Ferrell site would be willing to put them up online.

Anyhow, Mr. Summers, if you can tell us about your experiences creating this program, and any future plans you have for the interview footage, it would prove illuminating. Thank you.

Hello Pat,

While talking with Tony on other matters, I asked him about the outtakes from this film, and he said that he donated it all to Jim Lesar's Assassination Archives and Research Center (AARC) in DC, where they are stored away. Lesar has no projector or means of using the material at this time, but if someone wants to donate the time and money I'm sure the material would prove enlightening. Maybe Rex Bradford can say if its possible to translate the film to digital for placing on the internet.

Tony is busy at the moment, but he hasn't lost interest in the JFK Assassination, and will return to the forum to answer questions himself.

Lesar has been busy too, as a District Court Judge recently dismissed the Morley vs. CIA suit.

Now it's our move.

BK

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Hello Pat,

While talking with Tony on other matters, I asked him about the outtakes from this film, and he said that he donated it all to Jim Lesar's Assassination Archives and Research Center (AARC) in DC, where they are stored away. Lesar has no projector or means of using the material at this time, but if someone wants to donate the time and money I'm sure the material would prove enlightening. Maybe Rex Bradford can say if its possible to translate the film to digital for placing on the internet.

Tony is busy at the moment, but he hasn't lost interest in the JFK Assassination, and will return to the forum to answer questions himself.

Lesar has been busy too, as a District Court Judge recently dismissed the Morley vs. CIA suit.

Now it's our move.

BK

Thanks, Bill. It's good to know the footage is relatively safe. One of my concerns was that it was locked up somewhere like Manchester's interview with Jackie, forever beyond our reach...

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