Jump to content
The Education Forum
  • Announcements

    • Evan Burton

      OPEN REGISTRATION BY EMAIL ONLY !!! PLEASE CLICK ON THIS TITLE FOR INFORMATION REQUIRED FOR REGISTRATION!:   06/03/2017

      We have 5 requirements for registration: 1.Sign up with your real name. (This will be your Username) 2.A valid email address 3.Your agreement to the Terms of Use, seen here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21403. 4. Your photo for use as an avatar  5.. A brief biography. We will post these for you, and send you your password. We cannot approve membership until we receive these. If you are interested, please send an email to: edforumbusiness@outlook.com We look forward to having you as a part of the Forum! Sincerely, The Education Forum Team
John Simkin

(A7) Work Days

Recommended Posts

This subject is closely related to staff costs. We have to decide how many days work people contribute to the project. (The lead institution has 360 days at its disposal.) E-HELP members work between 60 and 120 days over a three year period. We have taken an egalitarian approach and these allotted days are related to staff costs. However, it might be better for members to say how many days they are willing to contribute to the project.

A large number of these days will be taken up by meetings. Members can also claim several days for contributing to debates/seminars on our online forum.

If the basic outline of my summary is accepted, individual members would need to write a brief overview of how citizenship is taught in their own country. I would also like one or two case-studies of citizenship being taught in particular schools. This would then be placed on our proposed website. I suspect that this would take a maximum of three days work.

The second year will mainly involve us identifying and evaluating existing good practice in Europe. We will also explore the way citizenship is taught in countries outside Europe. This is likely to be more time-consuming and will probably run into the third year.

The third year will mainly involve preparing the residential conference designed to bring European educators together to learn about the teaching of citizenship. This will mainly be done at meetings but a great deal can be done on the forum or in video conferencing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am willing to supply 140 days over the three year period.

Total cost: 140 x 310 euros = 45,400 euros

In E-HELP the amount (if I'm not wrong was 100 days for Juan Carlos and myself) was figured out according to other criteria. I find it easier to think of 100 days throughout the three year period (Total cost: 100 x 250 = 25,000). I would not object, in any case, to raising that number of days to 140 if required.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In E-HELP the amount (if I'm not wrong was 100 days for Juan Carlos and myself) was figured out according to other criteria. I find it easier to think of 100 days throughout the three year period (Total cost: 100 x 250 = 25,000). I would not object, in any case, to raising that number of days to 140 if required.

Juan Carlos and yourself were originally down to 120 days at 150 euros a day at a total staff cost of 18,000 euros. This figure will have to be adjusted according to the number of days and costs of other members. However, I need a starting figure before making these calculations.

Concerning average day costs. Mine is high for two reasons. (1) I am managing director of a company and so therefore I am automatically placed in Staff Category 1. (2) I am based in England. For example, Andy Walker, who is a classroom teacher, is on 280 euros a day, in E-HELP. Terry Hadyn is on 300. Other examples include Spain (150), Holland (210), and Sweden (200).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In E-HELP the amount (if I'm not wrong was 100 days for Juan Carlos and myself) was figured out according to other criteria. I find it easier to think of 100 days throughout the three year period (Total cost: 100 x 250 = 25,000). I would not object, in any case, to raising that number of days to 140 if required.

Juan Carlos and yourself were originally down to 120 days at 150 euros a day at a total staff cost of 18,000 euros. This figure will have to be adjusted according to the number of days and costs of other members. However, I need a starting figure before making these calculations.

Concerning average day costs. Mine is high for two reasons. (1) I am managing director of a company and so therefore I am automatically placed in Staff Category 1. (2) I am based in England. For example, Andy Walker, who is a classroom teacher, is on 280 euros a day, in E-HELP. Terry Hadyn is on 300. Other examples include Spain (150), Holland (210), and Sweden (200).

As regard costs it is OK if you put me down to 150 €. The reason why I'm in Paris is because I do get those €250.

It is OK, then, €150 and the total figures to reach 18,000.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As regard costs it is OK if you put me down to 150 €. The reason why I'm in Paris is because I do get those €250.

That seems to be right. That is what Richard claims and he teaches in France.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, Spaniards will go with 150€ a day.

I calculate 120 days as well, so it will make 120x150=18.00. Just as it is in EHELP-

The point is that at my school Ramón Burgaleta is a very active member and has been, is and will be involved in producing materials all over E-HELP Project. As he has very young children, he has serious difficulties in attending to the meetings.

He is willing to do the same in our future project. I think that it will be fair that in our institution case staff costs and work days were like that:

Juan Carlos Ocaña 120x150=18.000

Ramón Burgaleta 120x150=18.000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He is willing to do the same in our future project. I think that it will be fair that in our institution case staff costs and work days were like that:

Juan Carlos Ocaña 120x150=18.000

Ramón Burgaleta 120x150=18.000

The allocation of days is based on institution. Therefore, I assume your figures are IES Parque de Lisboa:

240 days at 150 euros = 36,000 euros.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems people are a bit reluctant to put down the number of days people are willing to contribute. To give you an idea of the total number that is likely to be available. The E-HELP project has 2,940 days.

So far we have:

IES Parque de Lisboa (Spain) 240 days at €150 euros = €36,000

Spartacus Educational (UK) 140 days x €310 euros = €45,400

Spanish Lycée in Neuilly sur Seine (France) 140 x €250 + €35,00

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Revised figures:

IES Parque de Lisboa (Spain) 140 days at €263 = €36.820

Spartacus Educational (UK) 140 days x €310 euros = €45,400

Spanish Lycée in Neuilly sur Seine (France) 140 days at €250 = €35,000

I will not be able to fill in the application form until each member sends me the daily costs of their involvement in the project plus the number of days they wish to do. The only way to accurately to find out your daily costs is by asking your employer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Revised figures:

IES Parque de Lisboa (Spain) 140 days at €263 = €36.820

Spartacus Educational (UK) 140 days x €310 euros = €45,400

Spanish Lycée in Neuilly sur Seine (France) 140 days at €250 = €35,000

I will not be able to fill in the application form until each member sends me the daily costs of their involvement in the project plus the number of days they wish to do. The only way to accurately to find out your daily costs is by asking your employer.

The figures are right for the Spanish Lycee and myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Concerning average day costs. Mine is high for two reasons. (1) I am managing director of a company and so therefore I am automatically placed in Staff Category 1. (2) I am based in England. For example, Andy Walker, who is a classroom teacher, is on 280 euros a day, in E-HELP. Terry Hadyn is on 300. Other examples include Spain (150), Holland (210), and Sweden (200).

This is indeed a very complex situation. <_<

In fact the figures you quote are from the e-Help application rather then from the e-Help project itself. These were based on:

1) people's inaccurate estimates given to me when I was writing the application and

2) the Comenius guidelines which put an artificial ceiling on the relevant staff categories.

I think you are doing the right thing in getting people's real costs. I was told that they want real costs irrespective of whether they exceed the imposed limits. The real costs for e-Help are:

Richard 254.80

Juan C 263.00

Vicente 263.00

Nico 330.00

Anders 280.55

Dalibor 275.00

Terry 387.00

John 363.57

Andy 382.11

Alf 267.98

The social costs are much higher on the continent than in Thatcher's Britain, hence the discrepancy between what people think they cost and what they actually cost to emloyers.

The real costs only become important if you actually pay institutions for the number of days they do. In e-Help we pay institutions the same amount and adjust the number of days to fit. And it does fit within a few Euros or so.

The major problem of paying for the actual number of days is that you will need a procedure to evaluate the claims made by the institutions for the actual number of days contributed. Will you withold payment if you are not convinced that the institution has actually contributed the number of days it claims? In such circumstances, how much will you actually pay? Who will decide? What appeal procedure will be in place? etc.

The partnership agreements will have to be more than the 'gentleman's agreements' we have in e-Help. Because money is involved they will have to become legal documents. Similarly, the 'time sheet', personnel costs etc. will become serious documents. The administration of the project will become much more bureaucratic and time consuming, and I can assure you, just controlling the budget is time consuming enough.

There are exceptions in e-Help which were agreed in advance. Terry only has to to attend meetings and do evaluation. His university would only let him claim a certain number of days. He does more by choice but the basics were agreed in advance. Similarly, we pay more to institutions that host meetings. This is only fair.

One alternative is to make the staff costs lower (as a percentage of your overall costs) than in e-Help. This will mean that no money is transferred to the participant institutions. In this case, staff costs make up the total of the 'National' contributions of the project. Remember that the institutions are likely to have to contribute 30-50% of the costs of the project. Trouble is you won't know the percentage grant award until it has been awarded. e-Help got about 60% which was (as always) less than requested!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×