Jeff Dahlstrom Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Forum Member's: Has anyone emailed Piper to request a free copy of his book? Just curious about the intellectual curiosity of JFK researchers here. I have to admit that after reading up to half way through chapter five, I'm still looking for substantiated hard evidence about Mossad invoilvement? Has anyone read either of the two chapter's that Piper posted from his book for members to read as part of the substantial issues raised? Jeff D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Collins Piper Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 To: Ron Ecker . . . Please send me your snail mail address and I will not only send you a copy of the second printing of the sixth edition of FINAL JUDGMENT (which even includes items not appearing in the first printing) and I will also personally reimburse you the $25 you spent buying a copy of the fifth edition used. email me at: piperm2@lycos.com. Re: Andy Walker's comment, on one of these three threads about how rotten I am, that I am "illiterate" because I used the term "a hysterical ethnic reaction" rather than "an hysterical ethnic reaction" (or words to that effect), I could easily say that it was a typographical error. It was not. I stopped for a moment and questioned whether "a" or "an" was appropriate. I settled with "a" and evidently—if the brilliant Andy Walker, the great humanitarian, is correct—I was wrong. But if I started judging people by their writings --- including Len Colby who has a lot of problems with punctuation --- I could really start ripping some people to pieces. But I accept the fact that hurried typing on the Internet, particularly when some one is frenzied to make a point (and I'm not talking about Len specifically here) that typos are inevitable. I guess the bottom line is that this foul little bow-tied man, Andy Walker, is really stooping to the lowest gutter level of name calling by saying I'm illiterate. Actually, I won an essay contest in high school, along with a fat little US savings bond, for writing a "Voice of Democracy" contest saying how wonderful Israel was and what a great role model it is for the United States. Obviously I knew by then what a crock that was, but I still got that fat savings bond. Plus I had professor in college---rather well known and Jewish, I might add---who once asked me if he could keep a copy of one of my media content analysis papers because, as he said, it was probably one of the best ones he'd ever had from a student and he wanted to use it as a model for other students. I suppose it's still on file in his office. But here I am trying to justify myself to this childish, and truly hysterical, ranting and raving by Andy Walker who makes even Len Colby look quite neutral, moderate or restrained. Funny thing is, I keep hearing Andy yakking about my supposed "right wing" agenda yet I have a lot of other people calling me a "leftist" and "anti-American" because I criticize that vaunted 'special relationship" between the United States and Israel. And I keep reading all these "boo hoo hoo" books about the rise of anti-Semitism and hatred of israel that say that it is a "left wing" phenomenon. Oh well. Thank God for Andy Walker. I'll bet he wants to deport all the Muslims out of Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Dahlstrom Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Michael, Have the letters from JFK and Ben Gurion concerning their nuclear weapons program in Israel been released from the archives? Any hard evidence that Ben Gurion took any actions concerning JFK after he resigned? Didn't Mordechi Vanunu, recently released from 18 years in prison in Israel, disclose that Mossad was involved in JFK's murder prior to his being incarcerated again? Mr. Vanunu was involved in the Israeli development of nuclear weapons and his disclosure of their program was the original reason for his being sent to prison. Are there still records concerning the assassination of JFK that are still classified and therefore not released concerning the relationships of the CIA and Mossad in relation to the assassination? In other words, is the special relationship with Israel today, perhaps preventing historical archived evidence that is supposed to be released to the public, still being withheld? It's interesting that James Jesus Angleton headed the CIA's ZR/RIFLE team and Yitshak Shamir headed the Mossad assassination teams before becoming Prime Minister. Any connection there? Gerry Hemming is a forum member, perhaps he can comment on your theory concerning Frank Sturges. Jeff D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) Actually, I won an essay contest in high school, along with a fat little US savings bond, for writing a "Voice of Democracy" contest saying how wonderful Israel was and what a great role model it is for the United States. Obviously I knew by then what a crock that was, but I still got that fat savings bond. So you admit to being intellectually dishonest when you were in high school, why should we believe you now? Oh well. Thank God for Andy Walker. I'll bet he wants to deport all the Muslims out of Britain. This shows that you are inclined to come to absurd conclusions, based on the evidence at hand. You just don’t get it, someone doesn’t have to be Jewish, pro-Israel, anti-Arab or anti-Muslim to be disgusted by an anti-Semitic Holocaust denier. You said that members of this forum lied about you; it’s time for you to offer some evidence or retract that claim. If not your lack of honor and propensity to make false charges will be evident to all. Edited February 21, 2006 by Len Colby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Len, an excellent point. He admits he wrote for a financial prize an essaay in high school that he did not believe to be the truth. Why should he now be trusted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 See my thread in the JFK debate: "The Book That Demolishes 'Final Judgment.'" It is over, Piper. Your entire premise for Israeli motive to kill Kennedy has been conclusively demolished by the scholarly work of a true historian. Also note that according to Robert Kennedy's daughter, it was RFK's support for Israel that led to HIS assassination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 Could you describe the key pieces of evidence that makes you believe that Israel was behind the assassination of John F. Kennedy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Could you describe the key pieces of evidence that makes you believe that Israel was behind the assassination of John F. Kennedy? Don't waste your time John.... he has none Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 See my thread in the JFK debate: "The Book That Demolishes 'Final Judgment.'"It is over, Piper. Your entire premise for Israeli motive to kill Kennedy has been conclusively demolished by the scholarly work of a true historian. Also note that according to Robert Kennedy's daughter, it was RFK's support for Israel that led to HIS assassination. See my reply to your post on that thread. The author cited four reasons why the U.S. sold Hawk missiles to Israel in the early '60s and failed to get it right. From your excerpts, that book demolishes nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I gather, Mark, that you have read the book. Please correct me if I am wrong that you would not have the temerity to challenge a book written by a mid-east scholar, that you have not even read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 (edited) What it comes down to is this: JFK was the first president to break an arms embargo to Israel and he sold Israel Hawk missiles, and Piper says Israel killed JFK! An absurd proposition. Israel had NO MOTIVE! Edited February 22, 2006 by Tim Gratz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I gather, Mark, that you have read the book.Please correct me if I am wrong that you would not have the temerity to challenge a book written by a mid-east scholar, that you have not even read! Yes Tim, you're wrong again. (you're keeping up a perfect record). I do have that temerity. See my posts in the JFK debate, "MCP: Final Judgement" and "The book that demolishes Final Judgement". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 What it comes down to is this: JFK was the first president to break an arms embargo to Israel and he sold Israel Hawk missiles, and Piper says Israel killed JFK! An absurd proposition. Israel had NO MOTIVE! Tim, please back off on the NO MOTIVE claims. They're an over-statement and you know it. The best you can say is NO CLEAR MOTIVE. It's fairly well-established that JFK insisted on inspections of the Dimona facility. I was looking through a comprehensive book entitled Israel's Spymasters (as I remember it), the other day. This book, written by a British expert on the mid-east, said that JFK was absolutely trying to prevent Israel from getting a nuclear capability. Do you dispute this? The book also said that the Israelis found ways to fake out the inspections that JFK ordered. If the latter is true, then perhaps there was no motive. If, on the other hand, JFK had found out about Israel's deception, and was going to do something about it, it may have been necessary (in the minds of the Israelis)to do something about it. If Mr. Piper has found any evidence that JFK knew about Israel's deceptions, he may have a workable thesis. Even if this is true, however, I see no reason why Israel should be raised above the mafia, the CIA, LBJ and oilmen on the list of possible suspects. If there's any evidence JFK was gonna crack down on Israel's nuclear dreams then Israel should be further down the list, just below your favorite suspect Cuba, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Well, Mark, I was not wrong again because I was clearly joshin'. I knew, of course, that you do not read books that interfere with your pet theories and that you criticize books you have not read, books written by scholars whose credentials make you look like a kindergarden flunkie. Your chutzpah (so sorry if the Jewish term offends you) is incredible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 (edited) To Pat: The two books on JFK's policy toward Israel (cited in the JFK debate thread) demonstrate that JFK was the best friend that Israel had ever had in the WH. It was JFK who broke the "arms embargo" to allow the sale of Hawk missiles to Israel. He may very well have wanted to prevent Israeli acquisition of nuclear weapons, but just because JFK did not give everything to Israel that it wanted does not mean that he had not given Israel more than it had ever been given by any previous American president. I would think we could agree on the foregoing. It may then be your opinion that under these circumstances Israel had no CLEAR motive to kill JFK. It would be my opinion that it had NO motive. Why would Israel, after having a president willing to break the arms embargo and who was dedicated to the preservation of the Israeli state, want to kill him, on the hope that his successor might be even friendlier? Again, anything is possible but it would be my opinion that Israel clearly lacked the motive to kill JFK. Edited February 23, 2006 by Tim Gratz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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